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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 04 Jun 2004 :  20:26:04  Show Profile  Visit Sourcemaster2's Homepage Send Sourcemaster2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I've been working on a mage-city fo a while now, but there are a few things I'm not sure about. They seem fairly basic, but I can't find any concrete information to draw from. If anyone has answers (or you all do, and I'm just unperceptive), I'd appreciate the help. Here I go.

What level is your average wizard? What is the ratio (roughly) of mages to other classes? There seem to be a lot of casters in battles, but do most wizards focus on battle magic? If a mage doesn't want to travel and fight powerful foes, how can s/he improve their Art?

Edited by - Alaundo on 26 Aug 2004 11:36:32

Hymn
Senior Scribe

Sweden
514 Posts

Posted - 04 Jun 2004 :  22:15:10  Show Profile Send Hymn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I actually see the battle mage as the lesser one of the kinds. Since we got magic item creationers ( I would add conjuerers, and enchanters here besides the normal wizards / sorcerers. Now as for diviners I can see these as helping out the local law enforcment as well as locating things, people, information. Perhaps the closest today would be private eyes. or so I like to think. As for abjurers I would say they work as sort of construction workers (with the aid of conjurers or adding magical defences on allready existing buildings.

Any how this is my view of it

Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.

The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi
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Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2004 :  00:52:57  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure what a mage-city is, so the following is my guesses about mages in general, based on what I glean from the sourcebooks and novels as a whole.

I'd guess that among characters with (heroic) classes the ratio is about 4:2:2:2 fighter:thief:cleric:mage. Of the latter, mages are far more common than specialist wizards, including illusionists, and D&D-sorcerers. The mean level is maybe 5th. Mid-level wizards usually build towers, either in settlements or in the middle of nowhere, and spend most of their time conducting research -- sometimes hiring their services. Risking oneself constantly in spellbattle is seen as foolish. The Realms doesn't really work so that mages can only learn by defeating bigger and bigger monsters, that's a rules artifact. You can perfectly well gain in level by study and tuition, but risky experiences *as well* can help you learn a lot quickly.
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2004 :  01:51:53  Show Profile  Visit Sourcemaster2's Homepage Send Sourcemaster2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Farer, "mage-city" is just a term I use for a city I've been developing where all citizens are mages. Not necessarily wizards by profession or calling, but everyone who is a citizen is at least a 1st level wizard. Magic is taught to them as they grow up, along with more normal studies(the education level is, of course, superior to most cities, as there is public education, of a sort). Most are capable of only cantrips and perhaps one or two 1st-levels, as they move on to be warriors, clerics, craftsmen, ect. Obviously this is very different from the norm, and poses some problems, but I'm working on it.

But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
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Posted - 05 Jun 2004 :  03:08:59  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sourcemaster2

Farer, "mage-city" is just a term I use for a city I've been developing where all citizens are mages. Not necessarily wizards by profession or calling, but everyone who is a citizen is at least a 1st level wizard. Magic is taught to them as they grow up, along with more normal studies(the education level is, of course, superior to most cities, as there is public education, of a sort). Most are capable of only cantrips and perhaps one or two 1st-levels, as they move on to be warriors, clerics, craftsmen, ect. Obviously this is very different from the norm, and poses some problems, but I'm working on it.



Sounds like the description of Halruaa from the original The Shining South.

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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2004 :  04:15:28  Show Profile  Visit Sourcemaster2's Homepage Send Sourcemaster2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Similar to, but more interactive and accessible. Through use of specialized portals, travel to and from the city is instantaneous, at least from certain places. The city itself is not too magical. While everyone learns a few spells in school, most move on. If they use magic at all, it's only what helps them in their line of work. There's enough spell use to ensure lit streets, spelled locks, and so on. The main attraction is the stores that sell magical merchandise, making it a business center for spellcasters, along with all adventurers (after all, enchanted armor, potions, and wondrous items are handy for everyone) My city is also fairly benevolent. Through use of a special magical field, evil-aligned characters are revealed, and are not allowed in the city.

But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth.
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2004 :  05:52:18  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage Send Bookwyrm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
First, I'd say that in a normal population, each level of wizard is ten times more rare than the level preceeding it, at the most. Likely they're supposed to be even more rare; and that doesn't include the "normal," non-wizard population.

Second, about the "special magic field" the city has, what happens when someone disguises their alignment magically?

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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2004 :  21:43:13  Show Profile  Visit Sourcemaster2's Homepage Send Sourcemaster2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The field can't be fooled by normal alignment disguises, and additional spells, items, and so on are placed at the entrances to deal with more unusual methods. I had to worry about anti/dead magic, such as the ring in Silverfall, but the gates are enchanted in a rather unusual way to reveal dead magic. I should note that revealing alignment doesn't dispel illusions or transformations. If an evil-aligned being or object crosses the city's threshhold, he/she/it is surrounded by light similar to red faerie fire, which can't be dispelled within the city limits. Also, even if a means was found to confound the system, there are just too many spellcasters in the city to fool for any length of time.

But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth.
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Jarren Longblade
Seeker

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 09 Jun 2004 :  08:36:27  Show Profile  Visit Jarren Longblade's Homepage Send Jarren Longblade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A city were everyone is at least 1st level mage, It almost makes you feel sorry for the orc horde that attempts to attack that city. 400 1st level mages all casting Magic Missle or elemental version of the spell i.e. acid orb, it would be a sight to see.

But I have always thought that there are two ways to advance magic, the simplist and fastest would be travel to gain exp, but what about the mage who studies and tries to develop new and useful spells. I have given my PC exp bonus for using magic in creative and unique ways. Thats how I would kinda figure the would improve their art by consant use and learning.

Also by not allowing evil alignments into the city would that not cause a shift in the balance of power. Take the novel Tantras,{spoiler warning} with their god so close at hand the priest thought they were doing the right thing by elimanating opposing churchs even those of good or neutral alignments but in essence what they thought was good was inherintly evil. I think there should be evil in a city no matter what kind it is but how about having a field surronding the city that kinda works like a Mageduel???

One of the few thing you don't want to hear while deer hunting with your brother-in-law "DUCK"

Edited by - Jarren Longblade on 09 Jun 2004 08:42:16
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Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 09 Jun 2004 :  15:45:33  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like the model of 1st-level characters being most common and each higher level being some fraction of the last. Factor of ten doesn't work, because then there's one 10th-level mage for every billion 1st-level mages, but a factor of two might. But I think, judging for instance by the average power of magelings in the novels, that the model doesn't work for the Realms. If you look at the skill of chess players, the modal average is somewhere beyond novice, at the highest point of (as I recall) a bell curve. But I'm not sure what point that is. I think 1st-level *fighters*, on the other hand, *are* the most common.
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
508 Posts

Posted - 09 Jun 2004 :  19:52:25  Show Profile Send Sarelle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wouldn't there be a lot of multi-class folk? I mean, everyone gets trained in magic, but not everyone will have the necessary aptitude for or the love magic - so you might have quite a few 1st level wizards/2nd-5th level fighters or experts.

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My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller)
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Jarren Longblade
Seeker

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2004 :  03:53:11  Show Profile  Visit Jarren Longblade's Homepage Send Jarren Longblade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How about instead of everyone being a first level mage, the general public as say a bonus feat or ability for being raised in that city can use 3 or 4 0 level spells instead.

One of the few thing you don't want to hear while deer hunting with your brother-in-law "DUCK"
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2004 :  04:42:39  Show Profile  Visit Sourcemaster2's Homepage Send Sourcemaster2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I considered that option, such as that Haruulan feat, but decided against it. In this city (named Terrail, by the way) children are brought up being taught languages, some history, geography, and, obviouisly, magic. Upon reaching the age of sixteen, a boy or girl can be considered a full adult citazen, provided that s/he can work at least a 1st-level spell, is not evil-aligned, and has been properly educated. This is necessary, by law. Clerical magic doesn't count, although sorcerers and bards are accepted, as their magic is arcane by nature. The city is relatively young, having been founded and actually built by powerful wizards not long ago. An amnesty was put out for any non-evil mage, welcoming him or her to join the Tower ranks (actual wizards, beyond 1st level) Sufficient mastery of magic is neccessary to become a citizen if born outside the city, and is tested. As for the alignment issue, it could be a problem in the near future, but Terrail was founded by good mages, dedicated to making a sanctuary for non-evil users of Art. They abhorred the dark wizards who sullied the reputation of mages in general, and sought to make their city as "good" as possible. It should be noted that just because everyone has magical training enough to be a Wiz 1 doesn't mean that they decide to pursue wizardry. The majority of the populace are craftsmen, whose works are often enchanted. The Golden Blades are the city's armed forces, who combine their minor spells with combat skills. The clerics of Terrail have a unique arrangement that funds them quite nicely, but requires any citizens to be healed without cost (normal healing). The clerics are wizards as well, and create the majority of the city's potions and many magical items of their own. In addition, a quarter of the city houses the "guests," who rent their quarters from the Master Craftsmen. Many guests are not mages, but have lived there for years. They have fewer privilages then citizens, but the distinction is only legal; in practicality, they aren't treated differently. Magic is a big part of a Terrailan's life, but not always in a direct way.

But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth.
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
508 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2004 :  14:47:55  Show Profile Send Sarelle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm liking the depth of the city!

Are you going to publish it here when you've finished?

Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)

My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller)
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SoulLord
Seeker

Mexico
62 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2004 :  20:33:25  Show Profile  Visit SoulLord's Homepage Send SoulLord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It does seem very interesting but heres a case

how about when one of the citizens turns evil?
perhaps he leets his greed or pride take too much of a hold into his heart would the inhabitants expell him?

how about a child?
would the city force the parents to leave with their child or force them to send him away?

*pictures the parents of the boy in tears for not doing a good enough job sending him away while the boy looks back at the city that cast him out with vengeance in his eye*
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2004 :  21:38:23  Show Profile  Visit Sourcemaster2's Homepage Send Sourcemaster2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Turning evil is an unfortunate possibility. However, the environment of the city is positive enough that it's rare. When it does happen (note: I don't think that alignment is really fixed until maturity; fickle youth, and all that) the evil individual is, in fact, banished from the city. This exiling is not immediate; the person is given opportunities to mend his/her ways. If s/he refuses to change, banishment is enforced. The Terrailans see no value in allowing evil to exist in their midst. This perception is somewhat close-minded, but not without truth. As for publication, perhaps I will post what I have so far here in Candlekeep. It's somewhat long, with descriptions of the city in general, along with Terrailan government, ideas, items, and characters(not statted, though).

But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth.
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SoulLord
Seeker

Mexico
62 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2004 :  23:51:56  Show Profile  Visit SoulLord's Homepage Send SoulLord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting when does a child cease to be a child in your city?
is there some rite of passage?
being able to cast its first cantrip?

just some toughts
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2004 :  00:51:18  Show Profile  Visit Sourcemaster2's Homepage Send Sourcemaster2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Reaching the age of sixteen, not evil-aligned, and being able to work at least one 1st level spell are the requirements for graduation from the basic studies of Terrailan children. After that, a young man or woman is technically an adult, but in reality, it just opens the door for further education. When you turn sixteen, provided that the aforementioned prerequisites are met, you choose whether you are going to learn a trade, train as a warrior of the Golden Blades, join the city's clergy, or continue studying arcane magic. Once the choice is made, the "adult" effectively enters an apprenticeship of sorts, being trained in his/her chosen profession. They live in the center of their occupation; mages in the Tower, craftsmen in the House of Crafts, fighters in the Hall of Golden Blades, and priests in the Temple (there is only one temple in Terrail, housing the clergy of the "official" deities, but there is a large open section for those of another religion) Training takes years, ending at about 5th level. While the trainees are adults, they aren't treated as equals until they are almost twenty, though they might not yet be close to finished yet.

But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth.
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe

Spain
730 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2004 :  07:55:53  Show Profile Send Thelonius a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sourcemaster2, i've got a question. You said that this city has a magical barrier to keep the evil beings outside, and i'm wondering, if a wizard who is already inside gets evil?

"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
508 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2004 :  15:14:17  Show Profile Send Sarelle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gion: She said that those who are evil and get through the barrier/are already in the barrier, glow red. So they wouldn't stay in the barrier for long!

Sourcemaster: I am curious. What would they do if someone was born to a respectable wizard family, and was good aligned, but was mentally deficient or just simply couldn't learn magic any which way?

Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)

My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller)
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe

Spain
730 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2004 :  15:21:12  Show Profile Send Thelonius a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok, sorry Sarelle i didn't see that, so another and the last, i promise question. If somebody is evil, and inside the city, but has never and is never gonna make evil things, what would then happen? He will be red.imprinted for the rest of his life? Somebody with evil alignment has not always the lack for evil actions

Or he will be used as a trafic light

"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est

Edited by - Thelonius on 11 Jun 2004 19:11:05
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2004 :  21:27:17  Show Profile  Visit Sourcemaster2's Homepage Send Sourcemaster2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gion, keep the questions coming. You all are more likely to see my own flaws and inconsistencies than I am, so if you have a query, I'm glad to hear and answer it(if I can)
For most people, wizardry is possible, though by no means easy. Those unfortunate few lacking in enough intelligence to work magic usually attain only guest status. No matter who they are related to, no nonmage can be a citizen. They can live in the guest district of the city, thoough many have rooms in their family's house. The laws requiring magecraft may seem unfair, but Terrail is a city of wizards, and they will not accept someone who isn't. As I mentioned before, guests aren't treated differently than citizens, except in specific curcumstances pertaining to rights and privilages. It should be noted that anyone not intelligent enough to cast any wizardly magic at all is likely unable to function well in another occupation.
Evil is as evil does...or doesn't do. Anyone evil, no matter how they are so, entering the city glows. This glow can be easily seen, so stopping them from entering is simple. Translocational spells can be used to circumvent this, of course, but the field (which is conjured and maintained by nine crystal spheres) is linked to a special pool of divining water in the Tower. This pool, located on the third-to-last floor of the Tower, looks like a map of the city, and reveals any evil-aligned creatures as glowing red dot. It is checked regularly, and anyone/thing detected is immediately hunted down and expelled (not killed unless it's unavoidable; Terrailans dislike evil, but they aren't really violent in nature)

But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth.

Edited by - Sourcemaster2 on 11 Jun 2004 21:31:53
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe

Spain
730 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2004 :  08:37:26  Show Profile Send Thelonius a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't want to be insistent, but let me ask this, sorry if i haven't understood it correctly sometimes my english gives me some bad jokes, but, you said that somebody evil aligned is inmediatly hunted down? But if this guy hasn't make anything "bad"?, i mean, only for being evil-aligned must be hunted? It would be more fair to hunt him down if he does something to harm someone.

I mean, if those "guests" are evil, but they can't do anything evil, will they be hunted down?

"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est

Edited by - Thelonius on 12 Jun 2004 08:49:45
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Jarren Longblade
Seeker

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2004 :  10:50:25  Show Profile  Visit Jarren Longblade's Homepage Send Jarren Longblade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sourcemaster,

do you have a map of this town?

Also how effective is this shield would it say mask an evil character who alignmentis hidden by their Deity (SHAR or CYRIC). I could see this town being a favorite of Mystra so would the shield be a Divine gift from her to protect her favored city or somthing like that?

One of the few thing you don't want to hear while deer hunting with your brother-in-law "DUCK"

Edited by - Jarren Longblade on 12 Jun 2004 10:52:03
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
508 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2004 :  12:21:10  Show Profile Send Sarelle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gion

I don't want to be insistent, but let me ask this, sorry if i haven't understood it correctly sometimes my english gives me some bad jokes, but, you said that somebody evil aligned is inmediatly hunted down? But if this guy hasn't make anything "bad"?, i mean, only for being evil-aligned must be hunted? It would be more fair to hunt him down if he does something to harm someone.

I mean, if those "guests" are evil, but they can't do anything evil, will they be hunted down?



Gion does make a good point. "Evil" is judged by actions. Someone might think "bad" thoughts, but it harms noone if they don't do anything with them.

On the other hand, I see that your city has a theme going on - these guys are part of the "blind good" camp, where evil is evil and should be stopped. If that is part of the culture of the town then keep it - it adds flavour. If you want them to be a bit more sensible I'd take into consideration Gion's point.

Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)

My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36804 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2004 :  17:51:44  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I concur with Sarelle. Actions are more important than alignment. Look at it this way: all can agree that Khelben Arunsun may be neutral, but works for the greater good. His Tel'Teukiira was formed to advance his goals. Most of the members are good, but there are vampires in the group -- even one that is specifically statted as being evil.

Further, I don't recall which city it is, but there's one city in the FRA that mentions a resident necromancer. IIRC, pirates attacked the city, and this necromancer raised a bunch of undead and used them to defend the city. An evil guy committed a good act.

I'd think it more reasonable for evil beings to be warned upon entering the city, and then under constant supervision -- either being followed, or under scrying. So long as they take no evil actions, there's no problem.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 12 Jun 2004 17:58:48
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Sarta
Senior Scribe

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2004 :  19:36:52  Show Profile Send Sarta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If I recall correctly though, it was far more creepy that this particular necromancer had so many undead ready and waiting to be used this way.

Sarta
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2004 :  20:31:50  Show Profile  Visit Sourcemaster2's Homepage Send Sourcemaster2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While evil characters may do good acts, they are evil. They may have some good goals or character traits, but you don't become evil-aligned unless it is your true nature. Many neutral-aligned people do heinous acts, but they aren't strictly evil. That's why they are allowed in Terrail. Evildoers-or however else they are evil-are a threat to the community. Allowing them in is to introduce this threat to the city at large. It takes something significant, whether an action or something else, to become evil-aligned, rather than just neutral.
Observation, even when done magically, requires effort and is fallable. Total exclusion is the policy of Terrail, and is followed strictly. This is not to say that all Terrailans are perfectly pure in nature. They have flaws and ambitions, just like everyone else. Not all of them actively help people or promote justice; they're good and neutral, orderly and chaotic. Everything but evil. There is quite a bit of variety: just because someone isn't evil doesn't mean that s/he can't be dangerous, or actively work against what most percieve as good. On the other hand, Terrail hosts some contradictory-seeming figures: good necromancers who heal rather than harm, good undead that guard and serve willingly, not because they are forced to, and beings that are traditionally evil, like beholders and a few others, working in conjunction with good (or at least not doing/being evil)
Divine intervention is possible to shield someone from the city's defenses, but it must be extremely subtle. There are mages who use alignment-reading devices about the city. These items, unlike the city's detection field, can be blocked, but the user is aware of the protection, and will take note of it. Further investigation will ensue, so the warding had better be potent, long-lasting, and highly deceptive to fool the divinations of the city's wizards. Take note that Terrail's clergy is also numerous and has some high-level characters among it. If arcane divination fails, they may ask a god.

But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36804 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2004 :  21:22:01  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sourcemaster2

While evil characters may do good acts, they are evil. They may have some good goals or character traits, but you don't become evil-aligned unless it is your true nature. Many neutral-aligned people do heinous acts, but they aren't strictly evil. That's why they are allowed in Terrail. Evildoers-or however else they are evil-are a threat to the community. Allowing them in is to introduce this threat to the city at large. It takes something significant, whether an action or something else, to become evil-aligned, rather than just neutral.


But merely being evil does not make one a threat to those around him/her. It means they're likely to be a threat, but not necessarily.

For example, what if a LE wizard decides to retire. He's not pursuing evil goals or committing evil acts, he's just looking for a quiet place to spend his last years. He is only a threat to those that endanger him -- he could otherwise be an asset to the community.

And yet, despite doing nothing to warrant such treatment, he is to be excluded from your city?

Granted, this is all your idea, but I'm trying to point out that merely being evil does not make one dangerous.

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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2004 :  22:38:47  Show Profile  Visit Sourcemaster2's Homepage Send Sourcemaster2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The standard definition of evil is: Evil characters or creatures debase or destroy life, whether for fun or profit. Your example of a LE wizard is, in fact, evil. His very nature is inclined to do evil acts, whether great or small, active or of a more passive nature. His alignment is only a guidline, true, but it still defines his basic character. Where neutral characters may be amoral, evil ones are immoral, at least by conventional description. There is one option that such an individual may take. The clergy of the city offer a chance at redemption, similar to an atonement spell. If an applicant is truly repentant, sometimes demonstrating this by fulfilling a minor quest of some sort, the priests will call upon their deity to directly intervene, altering the candidate's alignment. (for the period of the supplicant's quest, his actual alignment is suppressed, allowing a free reign of sorts, therefore letting him/her demonstrate the true desire to become good (or neutral). Once such a person passes the trial, powerful spells are used to verify the new alignment. Once verified, the person is accepted into Terrail without constraint or limitation (beyond the standard mage citizen/guest issue, of course) This allows formerly evil characters to join the society, but continues the tradition of excluding evil.

But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth.
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Bookwyrm
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Posted - 13 Jun 2004 :  07:31:36  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage Send Bookwyrm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There are ways for a character to completely hide his or her alignment, either disguising it, or becoming completely shielded to alignment-detecting spells. Even an epic paladin's Detect Evil ability can't defeat these.

Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.

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