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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Jun 2004 : 12:17:56
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I'm curious about 3 things:
Do you define D&D alignment by actions then? That is perfectly reasonable, but I don't.
Lets say there is a dude who thinks awful thoughs all the time - he thinks about all sorts of vices (murder, torture, rape) etc. But he has learnt great self-control - let's say, he only thinks these thoughts when alone. I would give him an evil alignment - paladins would get all worked up against him etc. But in actuality, he is not a danger to society. And when it comes down to it - harming or persecuting him because of his thoughts would be very unfair (though it could well happen). Would this guy be excluded from Terrail?
Third - do you see Terrailians as "blind good" (even the neutral ones, because by this I mean that their policies against evil folk are absolute), or do you feel they are creating the better society?
Thanks for answering the questions. I'm just a very curious person. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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Nephilim
Acolyte
United Kingdom
33 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2004 : 13:02:27
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I have read this thread with interest and I have a few comments...
First, Sourcemaster2 started by asking what the average level for a mage is. Since the average intelligence for a human is only 10, that means an average human can cast level 0 spells at best. A city full of mages capable of casting higher level spells therefore seems a little farfetched, unless there is some secret explaination for the high level of intelligence among the city's inhabitants?
Second, Sourcemaster2 mentioned that the city would be divided into mages and non-mages. The non-mages would not be able to achieve full citizenship and would have limited rights. I know this is a fantasy world but this sounds like Apartheid to me, surely this kind of prejudice is inherantly Evil? Won't this cause a problem for the Goodness field over the city? |
ooops. |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2004 : 04:05:22
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As I said before, I'm glad to answer questions. If there are problems, I want to know about them, so look closely and shout out if my ideas are a bit out there, or just plain inconsistent.
Nephelim, Terrailan citizenship is more of a technicality than a reality. Citizenship has nothing to do with personal rights, such as protection under the law. It is more related to joining the city's occupations; only citizens can be Tower mages, for example, and a noncitizen mage can always become one and then join up. Noncitizens can own and run buisnesses in the city, but their residences are technically owned by the Craftsmen. Again, this is just a technicality, usually ignored/nullified by a contract. The concept of citizenship is present more to inforce the necessity of magecraft than it is to relegate nonmages to a lower position. Citizens and guests are not treated differently in any noticable way. As for the matter of intelligence, is 10 really the average? If so, then I may have to bring the requirement down to cantrips, but I thought that most people were at least 11. I've rarely seen a character listed with 10 intelligence, even a fighter or barbarian, but I'm no expert.
Sarelle, such an individual would be denied entry into Terrail, but he could request the opportunity for Repentance, as I mentioned before. The cost for this is usually negligible, and often ignored entirely if circumstances permit (the person is poor, for instance) Terrailans will not allow evil people into their city, but they strongly believe in a person's ability/right to change their ways. It is a basic tenet of Terrail that no one is beyoned redemption, if they truly desire it, and are willing to make up for their actions. An evil mage, for instance, might become good, but he still has to pay for his crimes. "Blind good" isn't exactly how I would describe Terrailan society, but it can seem that way. The city was founded with the intention of being a home for those who were tired of evil, both blatant and subtle, that permeates so many cities. While the founders themselves (who, by the way, raised the outer walls of the city with their spells, and many of the oldest buildings also, over the course of many years) were good, they did not want to deny free will, and so accepted neutral-aligned individuals, and established, with the aid of the clergy, a method for evil individuals to "turn good." The society is not perfect; there are theives and swindlers, charlatens and spies, but they all are outside (sometimes just barely) being evil. All in all, their city is admirable: public education, very little prejudice, almost no poor people, as everyone enters the aforementioned apprenticeship, and can find some work, even if it is in one of the projects run outside of the city. The city didn't spring up as an ordinary one did: it was planned and carefully constructed. It isn't especially large, as citied go, and since all noncitizen housement is rented out in a controlled manner, overpopulating isn't likely. If it becomes too crowded, there are plans for constructing another city, portal-linked to the first. Terrail is somewhat like Silverymoon, but even more magical; if you're good, neutral, magical, or some combination thereof, you can find a place there.
Boowkwyrm, it's true that alignment-disguising devices and spells exist. The Orbs of Terrail which power the detection field are of almost artifact-level power, however. Obviously, there are certain means, such as the divine intervention mentioned before, by which it might be fooled, but only a few rare and mostly blessed individuals have access to such methods. Also, there has been considerable development into enhanced methods of evil detection, both arcane and divine, especially those that pierce such deceptions. |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
Edited by - Sourcemaster2 on 14 Jun 2004 04:15:56 |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2004 : 18:24:27
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Thanks again Sourcemaster. I eagerly await more information on this city.  |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2004 : 23:30:51
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I'm going to post what I've written so far in installments. Any opinions, criticisms, or additions anyone could suggest are welcome.
Terrail
The City
The Hall of the Golden Blades
Home to a retired adventuring company of warrior-mages. The fighters of the city are trained here, learning to use their minor magics in conjunction with their skill at arms. The elite warriors earn the title of Golden Blade, and are given the enchanted swords that gave the company its name.
Temple of Mystra and Azuth
Clerics of the god and goddess of magic are given equal respect in Terrail. The leadership of the church alternates yearly between the highest-ranking priests of the two faiths. Healing is given to all citizens free of charge, though guests and visitors must pay. The clergy also provides free healing to the surrounding communities several times a year by the lower-ranking clerics. The priests are the alchemists of the city, and brew many strange and potent potions, as well as crafting magical items. The temple is funded by the city itself, allowing the priests to apply their energy to helping the people of Terrail, rather than worrying about money. Surprisingly, the clerics of the city actually devote their time into helping, though they are also deeply involved in magical research and development. They do have income from the healing they perform and the potions and magical items they sell, which augments their official salary, and lets them purchase the costly components their creations require.
When Terrail was founded, a delegation of Waterdhavian priests of Mystra and Azuth approached Leyrin Runestaff. They asked to build a temple in the city, and their request was granted almost immediately, with one condition. The Archmage requested that the clerics, in exchange for the city funding the temple’s necessities, would provide all citizens with free healing. The clergy accepted, and moved in quickly. They selected the eastern portion of the city, and consecrated the grounds. With their own magic and that of the Builders(the mages who constructed the basic structure of Terrail
), they formed a temple of white marble. It was imbued with powerful defenses against divination and intrusion, but remained open to worshippers of all neutral and good deities. Assisting the defense of the church is a unique sort of watchghost known as Aethyries. They were among the most powerful and devout clerics of the two gods, and in death offered to serve their master further. Most of the time, they are in a dormant state, dwelling with Mystra or Azuth in their godly realm, but if an evil entity or object of sufficient power enters the holy grounds, they are awakened. They can cast spells as they did in life, as well as being able to resist most forms of attack and slay with a touch, and will manifest and aid the clerics of the temple with all their powers. There are currently three Aethyries; Ferith Arged, a former High Priest, servant of Mystra; Lystra of Shadowdale, a powerful priestess of Azuth; and Gredeon Synrad, a deeply spiritual elven Mystran cleric.
House of Crafts
This is the central office of commerce in the city. All shops are run by its members, but basic training is done in the House itself. The Masters of the Crafts work and reside here, and their services bring in huge sums of money. The vast majority of the city’s citizens are craftsmen, blending spells with skill for anything from construction to cooking to music to running an inn. Shopkeepers are given a great degree of independence, and their businesses are their own except for a tithe to the House. The House gives several presentations a year, in which the greatest works of craftsmanship are displayed to a select group of connoisseurs. For any other purchasing of their talents, a buyer must approach the Master himself and bargain with him.
The Tower of Rising Light
This is the seat of the greatest magic in the city. The Great Library is located at street level, and all of the children of Terrail are taught reading, writing, mathematics, history, and, of course, magic. To graduate, and thus reach adulthood, a person must be at least sixteen years old, and able to work some kind of wizardly spell. Once these prerequisites are met, and the individual is proven to not be of a truly evil nature, citizenship is granted, and he or she must choose to join the Temple, Tower, House, or Hall. Anyone who meets these standards can become a citizen; in this way Terrail is both extremely exclusive-no evil or nonmage citizens-and inclusive-any mage who isn’t evil. Even the term mage is used loosely, as sorcerers and bards are accepted.
Citizens who decide to pursue the study of magic are taught and live in the Tower. They learn a certain list of spells considered necessary, and become full mages after they become able to work a spell of equal power to a fly spell, and craft a unique magical item. The wizards collaborate with all other groups in the city, complementing the Blades’ swords with battle magic, the craftsmen’s skills with enhancing enchantments, and the clerics’ spells with their own. It is their magic that strengthens the walls, empowers the Orbs, and controls the weather of the region.
The goal of the mages of Terrail is to create new magic. A copy of every unique spell and item is kept in the Tower Library or the Vault. The collection is enormous, ranging from minor but inventive cantrips to devices of almost artifact-level power.
Guest District
Not everyone who lives in Terrail is a citizen. An entire quarter of the city is set aside for guests. Guest status does not require a person to be a mage, but they cannot be evil. Guests include visiting wizards who do not wish to join the Tower’s ranks, merchants who deal in magical merchandise, skilled craftsmen who do not work magic, but whose creations can be enchanted, and any diplomats sent to the city. Guests often travel to Terrail to search the Tower Library for new spells, though access is severely restricted by the Tower mages. All buildings in the Guest District are rented, not owned, though many guests have lived there for years. The House of Crafts controls the renting of these edifices, and keep records of who is currently living where.
The structures in the Guest District vary greatly. Inns predominate, providing food and shelter to the many visitors who pass through daily. The area near the city wall is the most desirable, but most of it is claimed by the large, sprawling mansions of the wealthy merchants. They have unique styles, having been built with the aid of magic. Some of the truly affluent post guards, but even these are just a token force, not meant to repel any formidable threat. The city guards keep Terrail safe, and few thieves can last long when anyone of even moderate means can hire a wizard to find what was stolen. Those who are successful are almost always mage-thieves, and complement their rouge abilities with cloaking illusions to ward off divination. Anyone caught stealing is treated with great severity, usually warned first, then, if further violations occur, bound by magic to keep them on the straight and narrow.
The Market (better name pending)
As the name implies, the Market is where most of the city’s trade goes on. Though the Master Craftsmen work at commission from their House, most of the city’s commerce goes on in this area, or on the shops lining the Four Ways. Not only the inhabitants of the city trade there; stalls can be rented for traveling merchants or guests. Many minor- to moderate-level magical items can be bought there, though more mundane things are sold as well. Such trade items include rare and/or magical creatures to be bonded as familiars, expensive or exotic spell components, books of arcane lore, spells-for-hire, and ingredients used to construct magical devices or brew potions. This is not to say that all businesses in Terrail are magical in nature; there are inns and restaurants, blacksmiths and weavers and so on, though even the lowest serving girl can work at least a cantrip.
Gate Court
Terrail was founded in an isolated area of the world for a reason: to keep the distracting influences of the outside world from interfering with the development of new magics. While this was a reasonable precaution, it would be extremely difficult for even a city of mages to provide food, raw materials, or even communication with allied. Transport spells only go so far, and sendings are very limited. To counter these difficulties, the wizards did what wizards do-they used magic.
The Archmage of Terrail sought out and conversed with the so-called Master of Portals, Jhaurmael Riversedge. The powerful sorcerer was initially uninterested, having grown tired of crafting portals for simple travel between cities. Upon hearing the special requirements the portals would need, he grew intrigued, and finally agreed to construct several. His somewhat arrogant title was made official by the Archmage, and Jhaurmael joined the other Lord Mages. Though he is often absent from the city, studying or creating new portals, he has crafted a portal linking his quarters in the Tower with his house in the Silver Marches. He teaches portal construction, teleportation magics, and instructs the sorcerers of Terrail. The portals in the Gate Court are the products of both himself and his students. They are quite advanced, using an effect similar to that of the Orbs, in that in reveals evil. Anyone of evil alignment attempting to enter a portal causes it to close, and it remains closed for twenty-four hours, unless the Gate mages open it earlier with a special command word. This command word will not function if the speaker is of evil alignment.
The Four Ways The Four Ways are deeply infused with magic. Part of this enchantment reinforces the stone, holding together the octagonal tiles of the roads. The other enchantment is of a more obvious sort; the road glimmers with silvery runes. Every citizen in Terrail is a mage, and all mages have a sigil, an identifying magical mark. Upon reaching adulthood, every young man and woman inscribes his or her sigil upon one of the eight-sided stones with an arcane mark spell. Another spell shields the road to prevent the sigils from being used against their writers, or from being dispelled by some mischievous wizard. The paths still have hundreds of tiles left, but new marks are added almost daily.
After this I'll post some info on laws, policies, and magical items of the city.
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Edited by - Sourcemaster2 on 14 Jun 2004 23:45:30 |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2004 : 08:45:17
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A really interesting point of view Nephilim, both of them.
Your city looks splendid Sourcemaster, i really liked the description you made, but, excuse me if i'm "tiquis miquis" as we say here in barcelona, but i really don't understand this distintion between guests and "common" citizens. A city interested in the Good (with capitol G) can't make such a distinction between the "Enchanters" and "the rest", is not fair and is not good those distintions are common in unfair (and in consequence in evil) societies. I think that this is the only mistake in your, in the rest of ways, splendid city. I mean, the wizards has the resources to become rich, but the guests haven't, so how do you pretend they pay in a temple if they're not able to gain money as easily as a mage could?, renting his services or so on... |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
Edited by - Thelonius on 15 Jun 2004 13:59:12 |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2004 : 21:32:59
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| Most of the guests are visitors to the city, usually there to operate some sort of business; anyone raised in Terrail would be a mage. The distinction between giests and citizens exists because Terrail is a city of wizards, and is meant to be such. The founders wanted a place where magic would be in the hands of everyone. To prevent the lazy of untalented from ignoring magic, they instituted laws requiring spellcraft. And although guests have limited rights, they can always study magic. Lessons are offered at low rates, and even an elementary knowledge and skills of wizardry is enough to qualify for citizenship |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Nephilim
Acolyte
United Kingdom
33 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2004 : 23:55:44
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Sourcemaster2, I have checked my scrolls and it does seem that a 3d6 roll will yield an average of 10.5, which means there should be an equal number of 10's and 11's. Plus the PHB does clearly state 10-11 as the average for human abilities.
Remember though, that 10-11 is an averageintelligence for a human, so for every person born blessed with a higher figure, there should be an equal proportion of unfortunates with less than average intelligence. Perhaps the city has an underclass of idiot's, if not what has happened to these people. This comes back to my earlier post, perhaps the average is actually higher in Terrail, maybe the city is blessed by Mystra? |
ooops. |
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Nephilim
Acolyte
United Kingdom
33 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2004 : 00:07:27
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A further thought. Have you considered using the ADEPT class (DMG3.5 page 107) since the majority of the populace would not have HERO classes like WIZARD. A plus point of this is that ADEPTs don't get a familiar until second level (? can't be bothered looking this up, its late), this would reduce the risk of a city overrun by talking animals.
I think also that someone has mentioned the possibility of creating a regional feat specifically for Terrail. I think this is a good idea as it means that the 'average joe' can simply be an EXPERT, ARISTOCRAT or WARRIOR but will still have the ability to cast a couple of level 0 spells.
Another thought. In a city where nearly everyone can cast level 0 spells, I would expect there to be a lot of spell research on the topic. Inventing new and exotic level 0 spells to chuck at the PC's would be a great way to add flavour. |
ooops. |
Edited by - Tethtoril on 16 Jun 2004 01:01:38 |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2004 : 02:39:09
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| The 10/11 average means that I should lower the bar to cantrips. The problem of people without the intelligence to be mages could be somewhat countered by the fact that the founders and all prior citizens were wizards, and so were at least fairly quick-witted; maybe genetics can give some help. A divine blessing is something that I want to avoid, because the city is more a testament to the mortal powers of magic than to any clerical/directly god-cast magic. I did consider the Adept class, but the flavor didn't quite match what I was looking for, as with the feat option. I may have to compromise that eventually; realism supersedes a favorite idea. The plethora of familiars is a notable factor in Terrail; they're practically everywhere. Some characters, like warriors, don't have the time or inclination to take care of a familiar, but most craftsmen have one, and many of the clergy. Unique cantrips are common in the city. There is a large section of the Tower Library devoted to cantrips, many of which are very creative and/or useful. That is part of the attraction of the city: it's full of specialized spells and inventive magical items. One of the requirements to become a full mage is to craft a new unique item, so the markets abound with them. |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2004 : 02:47:50
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Laws and Policies
The Adventurer’s Pact
There are many opinions on those individuals who call themselves adventurers. Some call them heroes, others fools, and still more crazy. Nevertheless, it is often by their efforts that realms are saved, tyrants deposed, and monsters slain. In Terrail, there is an unusual establishment for anyone who would seek to adventure. The founders of Terrail knew that many young priests, mages, warriors, and the other assorted bravos desire to travel, plying their skills for gold, glory, and, occasionally, morality. To provide for this decision, the Council pronounced the Adventurer’s Pact. Under the provisions of the Pact, any Terrail-trained fighters, clerics, or magic-users can choose to take up either mercenary work or true adventuring, with the agreement that a percentage of wages or loot going to the city. This is both to repay the gold spent in their education and because their superiors arrange the jobs. An average group would be made up of two or three fighters, and a cleric and wizard, though, of course, all would be capable of small arcane spells. They are often employed as bodyguards, monster-slayers, or for simple mercenary work.
Spells
In a city where every citizen is at least a minor wizard, spells are extremely common. The kind of spells that are used by the average person are small, useful magics, such as light spells, minor telekinetic magics, and dweomers that help maintain or create things. For every occupation, different spells are useful, or even required, but magical knowledge is not unrestricted. While all citizens can study any offensive cantrips or minor spells(1st level) in the Tower Library for free, more dangerous and advanced magics need the approval of the Tower mages (note: this refers to citizens who are not Tower mages with more than one level of wizard, an unusual occurrence in itself). This does not apply to any magics the citizen already knows, but use of any dangerous spells in unsafe conditions can lead to extreme penalties.
Items of Terrail
The Orbs of Terrail
There are two types of Orbs. The lesser form are crystal spheres about three inches in diameter. When activated, they cause any evil-aligned object, creature, or spell within twenty feet to glow with red faerie fire. They can be used three times per day. The greater Orbs are nine crystal spheres, three feet in diameter. Two are at each of the cardinal points of the city walls, with the ninth adorning the top of the Tower. They function together, generating a field of magic over the entire city. This effect illuminates all evil beings, objects, or spells with scarlet faerie fire. No illusions, disguises, or transformations can fool the Orbs’ magic, though it does not reveal such deceptions.
The Gilded Scabbard
Also known as the Golden Sheath, the Gilded Scabbard is among the most powerful items in the city. It is, as its name implies, a scabbard forged of pure gold. It has the power to imbue a blade placed within it with magic. If a sword is put inside it for at least an hour, it emerges with a magical enhancement(+1). This effect will last for one hour. The major function, however, is significantly more powerful. If a sword is left in the Scabbard for an entire, unbroken year, it will be permanently given an enhancement (+1), as well as being able to glow brightly on command. The blade itself is turned a golden color, though it does not become true gold.
The Gilded Scabbard is almost as old as Terrail itself. It was crafted by the city’s first Archmage to provide a steady supply of magical weapons for the elite warriors of the Hall. When a Golden Blade dies, his sword is given to a newly promoted Blade. This promotion is done at an annual ceremony, with that years blade given to the most skilled and experienced student, and the older weapons awarded to the other inductees. To receive a new blade is a great honor, and is a sign of great potential.
Aureate Talisman
These magical devices are given to the Watchmen, captains of the Golden Blades. Since the city is full of mages, it can be difficult for even the most skilled warriors to maintain order. Aureate talismans are equalizers; they can cast antimagic field once per day. If a law-breaker resists arrest magically, the captain can eliminate his disadvantage with this item.
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But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
Edited by - Sourcemaster2 on 16 Jun 2004 03:00:42 |
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Jarren Longblade
Seeker
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2004 : 03:45:07
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| Are you going to post some of these unique Cantrips and magic items on Cadlekeep?? |
One of the few thing you don't want to hear while deer hunting with your brother-in-law "DUCK" |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2004 : 03:47:19
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| Later on I'll post a few. I'm still working on some of them. |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Jarren Longblade
Seeker
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2004 : 05:16:15
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| Where were you planning on inserting this fair city into. You said it was founded in a remote setting and that the churches were started by clergy from Waterdeep. It Terrail going to be set in the Silver Marches? |
One of the few thing you don't want to hear while deer hunting with your brother-in-law "DUCK" |
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Nephilim
Acolyte
United Kingdom
33 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2004 : 08:54:53
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| I think the location is a crucial question. A city like Terreil will dramatically alter the balance of power in the area. If you were to site the city in the north, it would be high on the hitlist for alliance/subjugation/destruction for both the Zhents and Shades. |
ooops. |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2004 : 18:26:00
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quote:
Gion does make a good point. "Evil" is judged by actions. Someone might think "bad" thoughts, but it harms noone if they don't do anything with them.
On the other hand, I see that your city has a theme going on - these guys are part of the "blind good" camp, where evil is evil and should be stopped. If that is part of the culture of the town then keep it - it adds flavour. If you want them to be a bit more sensible I'd take into consideration Gion's point.
I still hold to my theory that the best incidcator of alignment is intention. In other words, the true core of what a character WANTS to do (not what they SAY they want to do, or even what they actually do) gives the best clue toward alignment.
Example: A possessed good-aligned paladin of Torm is forced against his will to assassinate his own captain.
In this case, it shows that while the actions are undeniably evil, the intention of the Paladin was to continue to do good. In this way, action plays no part in the deciding factor of alignment...
Example: An tyrant saves the life of a young noble so that he may marry her later and take over her titles.
Here is the reverse, in which the action is undeniably good, but the intention behind remains evil. This deed is not an indicator of a goodly-aligned character, particularly if the deed is looked at individually.
So...I'll have to disagree with Gion and Sarelle. If someone thinks evil thoughts all day, and believes in evil policies, then they are evil, regardless of whether or not they do anything about it....
(Returns to his dusting, sneezing his little elven head off... )
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My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Nephilim
Acolyte
United Kingdom
33 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2004 : 19:20:57
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| I agree with Arion. Alignment is not what you do it is who you are. But a single evil thought doesn't make a person Evil anymore than a single evil deed does. Two factors make a person evil: consistency or lack of remorse. |
ooops. |
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SoulLord
Seeker
Mexico
62 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2004 : 21:05:00
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I really like the city and it has me thinking of what conflicts would a city of this size with so many wizards face.
1) the familiars guild.-
Here familiars of all kind who once belonged to powerful mages and thus are very inteligent see over the good treatment of the familiars in the city matching new wizards with familiars
2.- Paper with so many wizards theyll need a good and ample supply of paper which means trees, unless they wish to trade for it; perhaps they have a guild that acelerates the growth of trees to be used.
3> Regulation of spell research. lets face it without it someone is bound to stumble into the greater spell of plane destruction and use it. why? to see if it can be done :)
4} Exotic spell components auctions. with a city full of wizards suddenly the eye of a dragon or the hair of a faery become much more valuable when the wizard next door is trying to outbid you for his spell research. also some creatures may not like a city that sees them just as spell components. (dragons,beholders,mind flayers etc.)
3.- |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2004 : 23:07:09
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SoulLord, I think you might like some of these.
Craftsmen and Businesses
The Crystal Caster
Illera Monatauth is the proprietor of this popular shop. She traveled to Terrail from Waterdeep, hoping to establish a lucrative trade in the magical city. She is a fairly adept wizardress as well as a merchant, and many of her more powerful wares she crafts herself.
The Crystal Caster is one of the most unusual businesses in Terrail. It sells magical glassware, from simple glowing spheres to scrying devices. Its most popular product is image stones, also known as capture crystals. These minor magical items can be made easily and cheaply by any of Ileras’s staff, and they have become quite fashionable. They are pieces of gemstone, glass, or crystal enchanted to hold a single image forever.
The shop itself is easily identifiable by its large front windows, which show constantly shifting illusions of majestic scenery from various locations. Similar devices are also sold inside, either seeming to contain beautiful vistas or granting illusory benefits to the user. The inside of the store is a treasure-house of sparkling merchandise. Translucent statues in myriad shapes adorn the counters, and various gemstones and items of magical jewelry rest beneath glass cases. All of the staff are minor mages, and they both sell and produce the items sold.
Illera is an influential member of the community. She is kind and well-liked for her witty conversation, and socializes with many of the highest-ranking people in Terrail. Though she is not a Master, she does have significant power within the House. This position helps her in her more covert occupation, that of a Moonstar. She was contacted by Laeral herself, and quickly joined the ranks as an informer. The gossip she gathers is pieced together by her quick mind and deciphered into information she can relate to Laeral via sending spells, or just by using Laerel’s name. Despite her secret loyalties, she truly loves Terrail, and will fight to protect it.
Mardel’s Menagerie
Mardel is one of the minority of nonmage businessmen in Terrail. He is a guest, not a citizen, though he has lived in the city for almost twenty years, The goods sold here are different than those in the other shops for one reason: they are alive. The Menagerie specializes in the sale of magical creatures, or those that can be used by mages. Animals capable of being bonded as familiars can be found here, both the standard sort and those considered “improved.” No truly dangerous creatures are sold by Mardel, but many can serve as guardians, companions, or allies. He does not just sell such exotic beings; sometimes he acts as a middleman for creatures who will sell their services. Mardel himself is an affalable man; most of the mages in Terrail purchased their first familiar from him, earning him not only a large clientele, but friends in high places. His store is located in the eastern Market, a rambling structure filled with strange beings.
Though Mardel is a respected businessman, he remains merely a guest. This discrimination irritates him, though he is not really discontent with his life. He is constantly attempting to change the laws of Terrail so that nonmages can become citizens, but he understands the reasons those laws are in place. Rumor says that several of the city’s defenses involve creatures bought or bargained with by Mardel.
The Missing Quill
In a city where everyone is at least literate, a bookstore can make a fortune. This one did. The owners of The Missing Quill are Therin and Pylda Silverquill, clerics of Ohgma and wizards both. Renowned sages, the couple traveled to Terrail to seek the arcane tomes of the city’s mages. The wizards of the Tower allowed them significant-but still restricted-access to the Library, but the cleric-mages realized that by living in the city they would have the opportunity to learn much more than as visitors. Due to their primary loyalty to their church, they did not join the Tower mages, rather becoming citizens and joining the less responsibility-minded craftsmen. They opened The Missing Quill more to serve as a home and storehouse for their own impressive library than to make a profit, but they swiftly saw the potential for success. The shop became a home away from home for the scholars of Terrail, a place where they could sit back in a comfortable chair and read a good book. Though Therin and Pylda’s collection is not for sale, those who want to can have copies made, or copy what they desire themselves-all for a tidy price, of course. Entry has a small cost, and once that price is paid a customer can peruse the volumes in the open are to their heart’s content. The Missing Quill specializes in magical lore, histories, and adventuring journals, but a little bit of everything can be found there. If anyone has any obscure lore, especially of a magical nature, Therin and Pylda will pay handsomely for rare texts. A copy of every new book, scroll, or random page they acquire is sent to their home temple in Silverymoon.
Baergen’s Components
It is common knowledge that many wizardly spells require a material component. While some components are quite easily found, others are of an expensive or exotic nature. Terrail, as a city of mages, has an enormous demand for such items. Baergen Delvis, a skilled wizard of Silverymoon, meets this demand. He deals in an extremely broad scope of goods; valuable gems of every sort, metals, chemicals, feathers, claws-in short, almost anything that could be imagined. The unifying factor of his merchandise is that sometime, somewhere, a wizard wrote a spell that requires it. His shop is one of the oldest in the city, having originally been Baergen’s house. He supplied the wizards who first built Terrail with the components they needed, and remained there, seeing that even mage-heavy Silverymoon couldn’t offer as many clients as this city. The store has prospered, becoming the main supplier for the Tower itself, as well as providing for the hundreds of other wizards there. The shelves of Baergen’s Components practically overflow with constantly changing merchandise, as new spells are developed that require new components. Baergen’s employees are well-learned mages, versed in many spells, but of only middling power. Baergen has agents all over Faerun who gather, cultivate, mine, or make spell components.
As for location, I'm not yet sure. Though many of the people came from Waterdeep or other northern cities, for the most part, they didn't travel overland. The portals, not to mention the numerous teleport-capable mages, make travel quite easy. Regulating spell research is rarely done. One of the the goals of Terrail is to craft new magic, mostly in the forms of new spells and permenent magical devices. As for paper, I think I will come up with a shop to provide that. Good idea. |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2004 : 01:12:57
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| A thought for location: stick it on an island way far out in the Sea of Swords. That keeps it from affecting the balance of power anywhere, and if the place is full of portals to elsewhere (which I would assume to be keyed portals), then travel to and from there wouldn't be as much of a problem. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2004 : 01:16:35
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| Oh, and a further note: Though I disagree with the exclusion of all evil beings, I think that arguing about the nature of evil isn't exactly appropriate for this thread. |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2004 : 02:06:43
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My thoughts on alignment stem from Wooly's and Sarelle's comments concerning what deeds are evil and which are not as concerns the aforementioned separation of mages...which is the core of this thread.
Thanks for the critique, but I'm pretty sure my comments were fairly relevent....I can't always claim that, but this time I think I'm in the ball park.
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My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
Edited by - Arion Elenim on 17 Jun 2004 02:13:58 |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2004 : 13:45:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
quote:
Gion does make a good point. "Evil" is judged by actions. Someone might think "bad" thoughts, but it harms noone if they don't do anything with them.
On the other hand, I see that your city has a theme going on - these guys are part of the "blind good" camp, where evil is evil and should be stopped. If that is part of the culture of the town then keep it - it adds flavour. If you want them to be a bit more sensible I'd take into consideration Gion's point.
I still hold to my theory that the best incidcator of alignment is intention. In other words, the true core of what a character WANTS to do (not what they SAY they want to do, or even what they actually do) gives the best clue toward alignment.
Example: A possessed good-aligned paladin of Torm is forced against his will to assassinate his own captain.
In this case, it shows that while the actions are undeniably evil, the intention of the Paladin was to continue to do good. In this way, action plays no part in the deciding factor of alignment...
Example: An tyrant saves the life of a young noble so that he may marry her later and take over her titles.
Here is the reverse, in which the action is undeniably good, but the intention behind remains evil. This deed is not an indicator of a goodly-aligned character, particularly if the deed is looked at individually.
So...I'll have to disagree with Gion and Sarelle. If someone thinks evil thoughts all day, and believes in evil policies, then they are evil, regardless of whether or not they do anything about it....
(Returns to his dusting, sneezing his little elven head off...)
Oh, I'm afraid you got my intentions wrong. I agree with you - D&D alignment is about thought. My example character was very definitely evil-aligned. I was arguing that not allowing evil-aligned characters such as he into the city (I'm thinking he would have shone like a lighthouse) is unfair, because he was not harming anyone. My personal opinion is that a (near-)perfect society would be crafted by alerting others to evil DEEDS/actual intention to commit evil deeds. However Terrail has its own falvour, as Sourcemaster has said, and that is fine.
On the other hand, that is why I as a rule disagree with 'the Paladin Principle' of detect-alignment. Paladins have the ability to go and seek out people with bad thoughts - but that doesn't mean the victim of the paladin is actually a criminal/a danger. Realistically, many paladins would end up abusing such a power like that.
Seeing as how we agree (I think), we should probably sit back and read the great details of Terrail. Speaking of which - Sourcemaster, do you plan to post a formal intoduction to the city, including the discussed policies on evil? |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2004 : 18:10:56
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AH! Glad to be on the same page with you Sarelle...I thought I might have misunderstood you...By the by...I LOVE your artist renderings of your character....
INDEED! Show us this world of yours, Sourcemaster! |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2004 : 20:25:53
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You've seen a few of the stores; any thoughts? Here are some of the spells and items already posted, and adjusted, in the Sage's shop.
Detect Mage
Divination
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V,M
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 levels
Duration: Concentration, up to 5 min/level
Spell Resistance: No
Detect Mage is a minor but useful bit of magic. It was developed by the Mage Lords of Terrail for use by the administrators of the city. As only wizards can become citizens, this spell allows quick and simple testing for arcane magic. When cast, the spell enables the caster to immediately find out if a humanoid has any arcane spells available. This includes remaining spells of sorcerers or bards, as well as a wizard's memorized spells, though it is completely unable to discern divine magic.
Material Component: A bit of hair from an arcane spellcaster
Know Duration
Divination
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Duration: Special
Spell Resistance: No
This spell is the friend of any mage who's had his fly spell fail hundreds of feet above ground, or lost his mage armor in the midst of battle. When cast, Know Duration makes the caster aware of the remaining duration of any spells cast before it was cast. The mage knows exactly how much time his spells have left, and feels them end. Know duration lasts as long as the spells cast before it do, though it does not detect spells of a permenant or instantaneous duration.
Anthalus's Final Warning
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: 1 target/3 levels
Duration: 1 round per level, unless discharged
Spell Resistance: Yes(initial casting only)
Saving Throw: Will and Fort negate, but only on initial casting
This powerful spell was written by Terrail's current Archmage, Anthalus Wyrdcrier. When cast, the target gets both a Will and Fort save. If both are failed, it causes the targets to glow with green light, similar to the faerie fire spell. If the caster speaks a certain word(decided upon casting) the spell truly activates, disintegrating everyone caught by the initial casting. This dweomer is used as a potent threat, because once someone is illuminated by is, they can be slain at will.
Material Component: Emerald dust worth at least 1,000 gp.
Gloves of Anthalus: These are a pair of dark blue gloves, the left twined with silver thread, the right with gold. They allow the wearer to use mage hand at will, as well as three other powers. The left glove can be used to cast chill touch, and the right glove to cast shocking grasp, both once per day. These abilities can be used while wearing only the appropriate glove, but the third power, burning hands, needs both. It can also be used once per day.
The Gloves of Anthalus were created by the Archmage of Terrail for his required unique item. They served him well, providing minor battle magic as well as a bit of versatility, useful for a beginning mage. He wears them still, though most agree that they have since been enhanced with many more enchantments of far greater power.
Faint evocation, necromancy, and transmutation; CL 3, Craft Wondrous Item, mage hand, chill touch, shocking grasp ,burning hands; Price:10,800.
Doblen's Everclean Cloth
This item appears to be a 12 inch by 12 inch handkerchief, delicately embroidered at the sides with silver thread. It can be used as such, and has one distict advantage over an ordinary one. On command, the cloth will clean itself, becoming immaculately clean.
Faint universal; CL 1; Craft Wondrous Item, prestigitation; Price 400 gp
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But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
Edited by - Sourcemaster2 on 17 Jun 2004 20:39:57 |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2004 : 20:30:55
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Here's a peek at Terrail's government.
Government
The Council
Although Terrail is a city of wizards, mages are not its only rulers. The Council of Terrail is composed of the Archmage, the High Priest, the Master Craftsman, and the Warden. These four rule equally, each representing a different portion of the populace, with an advisory member representing the guests. They meet in one of the top floors of the Tower, in a room that is enspelled to negate any and all mind-controlling magic, neutralize all poisons, and defeat any divination or teleportation spells. Each member of the Council wears a Councilor’s Ring, a powerful magical device that bestows many protective effects. Before each session, the Council members are exposed to both an antimagic and null psionics field to make sure that they are not under any outside influence.
The Archmage
The city’s Archmage is both the most mighty and skilled wizard living there. He or she must be accomplished at writing new spells, manipulating existing spells, crafting magical objects, and using many kinds of Art. The Archmage is chosen based upon his abilities; knowledge, strength of spells, experience, intelligence, and his general temperament. As the leader of all mages-full mages-of Terrail, an Archmage must be able to combat any magical danger, as well as make sure that the laws pertaining to arcane spellcasting are obeyed. The Lord Mages chose the Archmage upon the former Archmage’s death, or if he or she is proven incapable of fulfilling the Archmage’s duties.
The High Priest
There are two major faiths in Terrail; that of Mystra and that of Azuth. Citizens and guests are free to worship any deity they desire. The two clergies coexist peacefully, each devoted to discovering new clerical spells, creating new potions, and crafting new objects of magic. The High Priest is the position of the highest-ranking priest of either faith, which alternates each year between them. In this way, neither clergy gains dominance over the other. He or she is identified partly by the power of the spells they can cast, but this is not the deciding factor. At the end of every year, a ritual takes place in which the entire priesthood of both the god and goddess gather. The current High Priest formally steps down, and the entire congregation prays to the deities of magic to reveal the new clerical leader. The chosen priest is illuminated by a blue light-for a cleric of Azuth-or a silver light-for a cleric of Mystra. Thus the new High Priest remains unchallenged, avoiding ambitious struggles for power. It is the High Priest’s responsibility to ensure that healing is provided to all citizens, as well as distributing potions where needed, and overseeing the creation of new magic items.
The Master Craftsman
Though the Master Craftsman wields the least power personally, he is the representative of the majority of the city. The qualifications for this position are vague; he or she must be a Master of a craft; otherwise the decision is left up to the vote of the other Masters. Though this method seems to offer the danger of political strife, it is in fact quite stable. The Master Craftsman is more of an overseer, making sure businesses make money, not lose it. He introduces new items to the market, rather than directly controlling members of his House. He is not truly chosen for his talents at his craft, but for his diplomacy, business sense, management ability, and adaptability. While all of the Council members are technically equal, the Master Craftsman does represent most of the populace.
The Warden
When Terrail was founded, the adventuring company known as the Golden Blades was among its first citizens. They were fighter-mages, utilizing spells and swords with equal ability. They found a true home in Terrail, where they were accepted for their twin occupations. The first Archmage, Leyrin Runestaff, offered them the job of training the young citizens of the city bladecraft, tactics, and how to incorporate their small spells and magical items in battle. They eagerly agreed, and the Hall of Golden Blades was built to accommodate themselves and their students. The leader of the group, Ryndal Gildedge, was given the title of Warden of Terrail, charged with defending the city from enemy monsters, armies, or intruders, as well as keeping the peace. Under his command, a system of patrols and training techniques was established that are still used today. The Warden is chosen for his military capabilities-tactical reasoning, personal ability, and organizational skills. The Circle of Blades makes this decision, which is a lifetime appointment.
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But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
Edited by - Sourcemaster2 on 17 Jun 2004 20:38:56 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2004 : 01:18:11
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| I'd up the level of know duration. To me, it's a bit odd to have a first level spell that tells you exactly how long that 9th level spell is gonna last... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2004 : 01:22:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd up the level of know duration. To me, it's a bit odd to have a first level spell that tells you exactly how long that 9th level spell is gonna last...
Keep in mind what the know x... spells can do. *shakes head at know protections* |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2004 : 01:24:18
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| Know duration is really only a roleplaying spell. Any player can figure out how long his spell will last, so a spell that allows that isn't really disrupting. |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Jarren Longblade
Seeker
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2004 : 03:09:56
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I must say sourcemaster I find myself eagerly awaiting more and more information on your city. Keep it coming... |
One of the few thing you don't want to hear while deer hunting with your brother-in-law "DUCK" |
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Terrail
