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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11798 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jul 2024 : 14:36:45
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In another thread, Lord Karsus said the below... and I just figured it might be a good idea to start a discussion on this. I think it would make a great and simple DM's guild product that could be produced for free or "pay what you want" (i.e. you aren't going to make a huge profit... so its about sharing).
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Related kind of, one thing I always wanted and we never really got was some kind of nice list with holy books of different faiths.
On this idea, I know at one point someone here was talking about wanting a "library list" of sorts to hand out for a powerful mage in the Untheric region to a party.
I very much think a good DM's Guild product specific to the Forgotten Realms could be simply this... a book list. Now I'm not saying specifically a "listing of holy books" or "a listing of history books" or a "listing of spellbooks", etc...
With that in mind, from a metagame perspective it might be interesting to develop what "columns" someone might want to track in terms of each book. What do I mean by that? I think it best to give a quick example, and people can quickly reply with additions that might be both useful and "not hard to define/use"
So, here goes
Title
Author
Year Published (in Dalereckoning)
Category of book (examples, regional history, spellbook, holy text, magical theory, nature lore, monster lore, mundane crafting guide, alchemical text, symbology & vestige lore, warlock magic lore, administrative text, art collection, weapon and/or armor magic item creation guide, general magic item creation guide, fiction/play, ..... probably a dozen more we can come up with)
Region of Realms in which Produced (example, Bloodstone Lands or a specific city)
Region Last Believed To Be In (i.e. where was this book last found.... doesn't mean its still there)
Known Owners (If Any)
Distribution (this shouldn't be a number, but more an idea of how many copies exist... with the idea that even an old book can be rediscovered and suddenly mass produced with a printing press). So thinking entries of "limited production", "frequently reproduced/rescribed", and "mass produced"
Game Notes: (this would be a generic field in which someone could list spells, make a note that this book gives some bonus, make some notes about what the book is about, etc... preferably short, with a note like "see specific book notes for detailed explanation" if someone wants to develop a spellbook, etc.. like Ed used to do in the old grey box and other sources.)
Any other pertinent fields?
I mention this all because this would make a great DM's guild product to make and distribute for "pay what you want", and I think it could inspire lots of other information building (whether it be someone taking an author name and building a whole history about the author, or taking a title and deciding to vet the whole history, or taking the notes on a spell name listed and developing the spell, etc...).
I'm picturing this being produced as a generic spreadsheet, so that someone can sort the product by category, by region created in, by region last found in, by author, etc... I then imagine a separate word document which might be created for any specific game notes for a specific book if that's to be developed. By making it a generic spreadsheet (made with like openoffice), then if I make a spread with my books, and then someone else produces similar with same columns, then someone could take both and EASILY combine them.
Now, I could see someone saying that they'd like all the spells listed in a spellbooks so you could sort on that, etc.... I propose that that becomes cumbersome to develop when this goal is to simply produce a huge breadth of lore that's generic. The goal here would be to make this relatively generic and quick.
Is this a worthwhile goal, and does anyone else see themselves interested in developing bits of it themselves?
Does anyone know of a similar list that's already listed of the various books that Ed's listed at the start of his chapters, in his game supplements, or that other people may have freely developed and distributed, etc...
I will also note that we do have some sage developed works that we could use in this type of list, so there would seem to be some interest. For instance, at these pages on candlekeep:
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/scrolls.htm
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/booklist.htm
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/ckcollection.htm
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 26 Jul 2024 15:27:34
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AJA
Senior Scribe
USA
765 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2024 : 06:01:09
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I know at one point someone here was talking about wanting a "library list" of sorts to hand out for a powerful mage in the Untheric region to a party.
That thread, for anyone interested (it's a good one!);
Tomes of esoteric lore in Unther
http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22383
I'm not one for DMs Guild projects, but I do love looking through the contents of a Faerûnian library. Would be interested in seeing what other scribes would have to add to such a thing.
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AJA
YAFRP
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Edited by - AJA on 27 Jul 2024 06:02:24 |
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nblanton
Seeker
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2024 : 13:01:43
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It's funny, as we really don't know that much about the size of Faerunian books, nor their prevalence.
I'd imagine that even a "large" private library would only contain a few books. Transcription was still primarily a manual endeavor.
I'm basing most of this on the information in the short story "Patronage" by David "Zeb" Cook in the anthology Realms of Valor. There is a side plot involving a newly developed printing press. Dwarven design oddly; Gond nor gnomes were not involved.
The upside is it made me interested into reading more about the lama Koja which led me to the Empires trilogy which I'm currently finishing book 1 Horselords also by Cook. |
It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. Never hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, if it goes against the obvious intent of the game.
Afterword, DMG pg 230. |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1713 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2024 : 16:55:00
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A form I've been working with/on for various and sundry reasons… (Feel free to use if you'd like.)
Book Title
Author: Original author, any coauthors, important editors or annotaters, etc.
Origin: Place & year of writing/place and year of printing/publication
Number of Volumes: For initial printing/production, and then most common form
Synopsis: What’s inside… Quick elevator pitch/catalog blurb, then as detailed as wished (Perhaps rank as what info you'd know of the book by DC 12 Knowledge check then DC15, 20, and 25+?)
Book & Manuscript Description: Description of original manuscript (if extant or provable, description of original printed edition (standard for multiple copies, disambiguation by dotbullets)
Sundries & Secrets: (added notes on copies or annotations by others; (note to which copies these tie, if applicable): If there’s spells or magic, etc. Anything to make copy special
Where Found
• Dot bullet locations where book/mss can be found
• Multiple disambiguation notes
• Rumors or news
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For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Edited by - Steven Schend on 27 Jul 2024 16:56:31 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11798 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2024 : 15:54:25
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quote:
Originally posted by AJA
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I know at one point someone here was talking about wanting a "library list" of sorts to hand out for a powerful mage in the Untheric region to a party.
That thread, for anyone interested (it's a good one!);
Tomes of esoteric lore in Unther
http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22383
I'm not one for DMs Guild projects, but I do love looking through the contents of a Faerûnian library. Would be interested in seeing what other scribes would have to add to such a thing.
Thank you. I don't know how you found it, but I was trying to find this thread and couldn't, because I remember having fun with it. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11798 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2024 : 16:06:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
A form I've been working with/on for various and sundry reasons… (Feel free to use if you'd like.)
Book Title
Author: Original author, any coauthors, important editors or annotaters, etc.
Origin: Place & year of writing/place and year of printing/publication
Number of Volumes: For initial printing/production, and then most common form
Synopsis: What’s inside… Quick elevator pitch/catalog blurb, then as detailed as wished (Perhaps rank as what info you'd know of the book by DC 12 Knowledge check then DC15, 20, and 25+?)
Book & Manuscript Description: Description of original manuscript (if extant or provable, description of original printed edition (standard for multiple copies, disambiguation by dotbullets)
Sundries & Secrets: (added notes on copies or annotations by others; (note to which copies these tie, if applicable): If there’s spells or magic, etc. Anything to make copy special
Where Found
• Dot bullet locations where book/mss can be found
• Multiple disambiguation notes
• Rumors or news
Will look this over, and maybe adapt the above since I haven't even started.
On the origin pieces as well, I am thinking some of these we might just put inexact entries... not sure how to type that and it still be sortable with numbers... but something equivalent to "early 1300's". The thing I don't want to do with this is to create discepancies because I'm working quickly.
In thinking more on it, I like the idea of developing this and maybe posting it here on candlekeep itself if I can get Wooly or Alaundo to put it up. I really don't want any money for it and just want to share the ideas. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2024 : 05:59:46
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| -Thinking off the top of my head (ie, don't have the time or will to look into things too deeply), there are the Volo Guide Books, Aurora's Catalogue Books, Danillo's Evermeet, and Koja's Tuigan History. The video games have a lot of random in-universe books and titles I remember. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
514 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2024 : 21:57:22
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More book lists:
BG1 & 2: here
NWN: here
Chapbooks from Ed: here, here, here, and here
Magic Books: here, SKR also references "Pages from the Mages" and "Prayers from the Faithful" and also includes a suggested formatting
I don't remember if Elminster's Ecologies were in world, I feel like they were.
George also released a Pages from the Mages DMsGuild entry, The Burning Tome.
I'd also say Amarune's Almanac and Varlo's Guide to the Cities of the Unapproachable East would be a nice additions. I feel like DMsGuild would benefit from cross pollination a bit. I know there are products these are just the ones that popped into mind. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1713 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2024 : 23:25:45
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Here's a new one for ye that I'd written up for Bryon Wischstadt a while ago…
Wizardry Wyld, Wyrd, & Whymsical
Author: Rahad Grimwand
Time & Place of Origin: 1358-1360 in Longsaddle and Waterdeep; copied & published in Longsaddle, 1360 DR
Number of Volumes: 1
Synopsis: This text covers a singular wizard’s personal observations, recordings, and theories about magic and how it changed during and after the Time of Troubles. This is a seminal text for students of magic of all stripes as its theories are sound and well-thought, but it is more a workbook on magical theories and techniques and not a spellbook of any sort. The majority of theories and observations are from a wizardly perspective—the author’s own and that of his mentors as he reports—but he has separate sections for his theories about godly and clerical magics and sorceries or embedded natural magics. One section—and the one most oft cited by scholars—contains his transcript of a discussion with Coralkem the Touched, his lifelong companion and a priest of Oghma, which denotes a days-long vision the cleric had that relayed information from his patron deity on distant events and effects now commonly known about the Troubles Among the Gods at that time.
Description: There are 32 known copies of this book existing on Toril, two of which are manuscript copies. The majority of them are a standard three-handspan size, bound in green leather wrapped wood, all with a vertically stacked set of four Ws on the spine. The front and back covers bear a diagonally descending stack of concentric Ws going from the top of the spine toward the outer corner at the bottom.
• The Grimwand Codex, the true original manuscript, remains with the Grimwand family. The sheaf of formerly loose pages are stitch-bound with leather thongs between two wooden cover boards, their exterior having an interlocking four W pattern burned on the front cover, Rahad’s personal mark of a stylized R as an axehead burned on the back cover. This manuscript is easily read due to Rahad’s clean handwriting, although there are sections where smudges or haste in writing blur some words. There are 118 parchment pages and 48 vellum sheets herein, and only the vellum pages use both sides of the sheets (having been done or redone at leisure during the long winter of 1359 in Waterdeep). There are duplications as 68 parchment pages or fragments were rewritten onto vellum to improve or expand an illustration or to simply not have blood-stained notes and smudges in the book. As this was his personal copy, Rahad did not craft a title page or reference pages, unlike all other copies. This is also the largest copy as its handmade sheets and covers exceed four handspans in height.
• The “Harpwand” Codex is the secondary manuscript copy as crafted by Longsaddle scribes of the Harpell family. They took the Grimwand Codex and redesigned and refined the manuscript, retaining only hand-drawn illustrations by Rahad done in ink as opposed to his original charcoal sketches. No text was altered, although decorative letters and artistic treatments frame new illustrations done by Rahad Grimwand in colored ink and paint for this book, his original art within this codex. This book measures three handspans high and two hands deep, its 166 pages bound in 21 eight-page signatures. Grimwand’s text ends on the 158th page and the remaining “Referents” pages have over a score of scribe-painted seals, sigils, or marks defined in clear text; these seals pepper the margins throughout the book, so a reader can easily find material tied to them—this decorative organization being impressed upon the Harpells by their scribes who wished their faiths or their original homes or a particular group to have prominence in the text. Thus, one can easily flip through pages and spot any sections where Mystra’s faith is noted by her starred symbol or where Waterdeep’s or Baldur’s Gate’s shields denote mention of those cities. (A new addition to texts since the 14th century Dalereckoning, “referents” pages are starting to become more common and Candlekeep labels them iconcordances.)
• The “firstcopy” of Wizardry Wyld, Wyrd, & Whymsical duplicates the pages of the Harpwand Codex but has its pages bound within olive-green leatherbound wood covers. The front cover has an artistic rendering of Rahad Grimwand’s personal mark—the R as a stylized poleaxe head—slashing in downward diagonal fashion through four Ws. The back cover is devoid of any decoration save the seal of the Harpell family. The spine on the firstcopy is blank.
• The book’s twenty-nine other duplicates were magically copied from the firstcopy so they resemble it with the exception that there are four equidistant vertical Ws stamped in gold spanning the length of the book’s spine—these stamps were done physically after they were magically duplicated.
Where Found
• The Grimwand Codex is currently held by Vajra Safahr, Blackstaff of Waterdeep, on loan from the Grimwand family who normally keep it safe within Grimward, the family keep among the northeastern edges of Pellamcopse.
• The Harpwand Codex rests in the Harpell’s family library in the Ivy Mansion of Longsaddle.
• The “firstcopy” lies within a cellar beneath the Ivy Mansion. This shelving unit holds nearly twoscore books (in either manuscript or “firstcopy” form) of every previous book duplicated magically or physically by the Harpells or those they employed.
• The Harpells kept eight copies from which to teach their own students, although two copies have been stolen in the interim and are in unknown locations.
• Two copies were immediately sent south to Candlekeep for its shelves, arriving late in 1360 DR.
• One copy was gifted to Rahad Grimwand himself, and the book remains in the family library of Grimward, itself within a half-day’s ride to Waterdeep’s Northgate.
• Twelve copies were sold to Blackstaff Tower for its students in 1361 and these all yet remain within its confines.
• Four copies were sold to unnamed priests who claimed them for the churches of Deneir, Oghma, Azuth, and Mystra; these copies traveled among the hands of the faithful for decades. While their [MYSTERIES TO BE CONCLUDED LATER]
• They gifted the final copies to folk of influence with whom the Harpells wished to ingratiate themselves. Thus, one was given to Piergeiron of Waterdeep and an NPC of a GM’s choice.
Sundries & Secrets: Many assumed this to be a spellbook of sorts at first, but the Harpells’ use of it as a teaching text ended many attempts to steal copies of the book for alleged mystic secrets by 1366.
• All dozen copies in Blackstaff Tower have exact duplicates made in N’Kerymanth when Rhymanthiin duplicated the tower in its entirety inside its environs. The distinguishing factor between these two dozen copies are the darker hue of green to the covers in N’Kerymanth and a copperish hue to its spine stamps.
• Two copies of the book reside inside Silverymoon, one within its university’s library for student reference, and the other lies within the chained library of [Deneir’s church in that city].
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For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11798 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2024 : 15:08:15
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Steven,
As always, love your work. I really like the part where the scribes were marking reference sections with pictures related to certain groups (i.e. Mystra, Waterdeep, etc..). It's that detail that makes things fun. This also gives me an opportunity to play with "what" this listing might show, granted not in spreadsheet form at present
Title Wizardry Wyld, Wyrd, & Whymsical
Author Rahad Grimwand
Year Originally Published 1358 DR
Category of book magical theory
Region of Realms in which Produced Longsaddle
Region Last Believed To Be In hmmm, this example gives a good point for this possibly being something to remove. Perhaps just an entry of "multiple"
Known Owners Rahad Grimwand, Vajra Safahr "Blackstaff of Waterdeep", Harpell Family of Longsaddle, Candlekeep Library, churches of Deneir, Oghma, Azuth, and Mystra, though there are rumored to be dozens of other copies
Distribution limited production
Game Notes: see entry on Candlekeep Forums at http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24989
So, while the entry for this "denoted all the copies" ... there is absolutely no way to know if the Church of Deneir didn't turn around and make 200 copies, etc.... AFTER we "got this information" so that's why I figured go with the inexact information for copies, etc... It's also not meant to necessarily be a "source of truth", but rather a way to get some random books, or to scroll the list for ideas, etc...
Which, after stating all that, it makes me want to put a disclaimer at the start of it all that at least one cataloguer of the document was found to be a Leiran Infiltrator (someone come up with a fun name for him/her). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 31 Jul 2024 15:40:08 |
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Werthead
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
186 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2024 : 18:10:21
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| I had an idea about doing something like this with actual FR sourcebooks, because there's a lot and knowing which sourcebook deals with that faction/country/time period can be a job, came up with a similar format. Should really go back and finish that off, possibly have links to the DM's Guild material. |
Edited by - Werthead on 31 Jul 2024 18:10:50 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2419 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2024 : 19:48:29
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There was a list of Netherese "must have" books from Ed.
Which of course could spread to those shorter-living Netherese "survivor states" (Anauria / Asram / Hlondath) and other refugee groups, whether large (from Ascalhorn to Halruaa and Nimbral) or small (like in Luskan), or to whoever found a good Netherese cache (like the drow of Sshamath).
And from there, just about anywhere. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11798 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2024 : 20:59:39
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
There was a list of Netherese "must have" books from Ed.
Which of course could spread to those shorter-living Netherese "survivor states" (Anauria / Asram / Hlondath) and other refugee groups, whether large (from Ascalhorn to Halruaa and Nimbral) or small (like in Luskan), or to whoever found a good Netherese cache (like the drow of Sshamath).
And from there, just about anywhere.
Thanks, very much something to easily add. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
514 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2024 : 22:02:33
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Today I was looking through some old notes of mine and realized I had done some very basic work on books previously.
There was an article in Dragon82 p.55 by Bruce Heard titled "Spells Between the Covers". It focused mostly on spellbooks and Greyhawk authors though Elminster had one book listed. It also spoke a bit on in game libraries. I had transcribed them all into a spreadsheet and the column headers I had used were as follows
<title> <author1> <author2> <in game date> <source> <page> <spellbook> <magical> <artifact> <details>
I punted down the road how to handle books with multiple authors but that might be something think about. And I broke out page# in the source material because I could, easier to have it as its own data than not. Details were just spells in the book book I could see including excerpts like Ed's chapter prefaces or other misc info going there. I just used NULL for missing info and TRUE / FALSE to indicate spellbook, magical, artifact, etc.
A couple more links:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150920044431/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/mc
ELB's Mintiper's Chapbook
https://web.archive.org/web/20150907130403/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/mb
SKR's Magic Books of Faerun |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
Edited by - Gelcur on 21 Aug 2024 22:03:13 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11798 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2024 : 21:14:44
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I haven't started but I was making lunch and these two titles hit me and thought I'd just post them before I forget
Title Colorful Calligraphy Covering Calumny - An Artistic Guide of The Written Word
Author Tellus Preverikates
Year Originally Published unknown
Category of book Craftguide (Calligraphy) / spellbook
Region of Realms in which Produced Suthhaven
Known Owners Commonly owned by illusionists and copied by temples of Sune, Deneir, Oghma, Savras, Azuth, and Leira
Distribution frequently reproduced/rescribed, though often with changes
Game Notes: Textbook teaching the art of calligraphy and hiding secrets in doodlings. see entry on Candlekeep Forums at http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24989
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Title Sophisticated Sophistry Spread Sensibly
Author "The Wagtongue" authors true name unknown
Year Originally Published unknown
Category of book Language Primer
Region of Realms in which Produced Samargol
Known Owners Frequently found amongst temples of Leira
Distribution frequently reproduced/rescribed
Game Notes: see entry on Candlekeep Forums at http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24989
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Creating a Usable Library List
