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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6316 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2022 :  20:41:40  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Going through my catalogue again, organising every reference by subject.

As always when you read stuff through again, certain things leap out at you from the page.

For instance, why are the D'tarig greedy and cowardly, with no land sense when they "might be" descended from dwarves of Tethyamar and humans.
I wonder if they could perhaps be descended from Duergar instead or were dwarves that were cursed.

There seems to be an awful concentration of Shadow and Shar related stuff in Windsong Tower in Myth Drannor in the years before its fall - Dark Diviners, Book of the Black, Leaves of One Night, Darcassan and his Shadow Projections.


How did the Book of the Black end up in the ruins of Synod, the only thing i can think of is Shar Cormrael took it there, perhaps she was trying to get Augathra to translate is since it became indecipherable (thanks to Shar's curse).


The Thaalud are known as the Children of Thaal and the Netherese Archwizard that created them is now known as the Keeper of Thaal. So who or what is Thaal. Also the Tomb of the Thaalud is filled with floating castles, i wonder if they are smaller enclaves (the not city sized ones) collected by the Thaalud.


The Chalice of Amaunator, specifically designed to neutralise Shadow Weave magic. Almost as though the clergy of Shar and Amaunator struggled during the time of Netheril.


And then the Quess Ar Teranthvar, being transformed by the Shadovar to stop it from transmuting back into scrolls. But supposedly if they succeeded it would result in the end of Mystra. I wonder if the Shadovar werent trying to transform that set of Nether Scrolls into a Shadow Weave Node, it would certainly be the most powerful Shadow Weave Node in existence if the plan was successful.

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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1143 Posts

Posted - 23 Nov 2022 :  12:47:54  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Book of the Black at least, is strongly implied to have been copied, so there are at least two versions of it. One of those copies likely remained with Augathra, in her tomb at Synod, while the other was the one found in the Fane of Shadows by the Dark Diviners, that was later stolen by thieves. Shar Cormrael couldn't have taken it to Synod, because she left for Synod after the thieves had stolen both their copy of the Book of the Black and the only copy of the Leaves of One Night [Anauroch, The Empire of Shade, page 4].

I don't know if the Chalice of Amaunator was specifically designed to neutralize Shadow Weave magic. The item description says that it is the bane of undead and other creatures of darkness. I think that the fact it's so effective against Shadow Weave magic is coincidental.

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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
6316 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2022 :  15:45:23  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Didnt pick up on the copy of the black book.

That means the one in synod may be the real one, and it disappeared when augathra took it (she wrote it after all).

I'm not sure you could accidentally create a perfect foil to shadoweave magic. It's not like it affects both weave and shadow weave (since shadoweave piggyback off the weave).

The chalice actually disjoins shadowweave magic (a term you dont often see used) and is powerful enough to end the effects of a level 5 shadow node.

If that's accidental then it is the perfect accident, able to completely undo even the most powerful shadoweave magic while leaving the weave completely unharmed.

It also cannot be a coincidence that the cup destroys the two greatest enemies of Amaunator, undead and shadow. It seems more likely to be a deliberate act to me.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6316 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2022 :  15:49:59  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also I just found reference to an elf realm called braceldaur, which was in a valley now sunk beneath the moonsea. Never encountered this before. I wonder yrlaphon is a remnant of this realm

More importantly when did it disappear beneath the moonsea. I'm not 100% certain but it's possible the moonsea was formed during the tearfall which means it couldnt have been destroyed during that time.

Which means we have another meteoroid, which may be possible, I think uvaeren was destroyed by one. Or some other catastrophe caused the moonsea to grow a bit, like an earthquake or some magical calamity. Perhaps the moonsea levels rose over several millennia and gradually swamped this valley and the lands around the river lis.

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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore

USA
1129 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2022 :  16:24:17  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cool little thread. Where are the sources for these tidbits? I want to help but don’t know where to even start.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6316 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2022 :  19:08:03  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well some is from anauroch empire of shade.

The last one is from the realmslore series of articles, I think dawntree part 1 or 2.

I'm going through everything and giving it a proper read, which I dont think I ever did before.

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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
6316 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2022 :  20:11:24  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Slow Game (from the Flask of Dreams).

A power struggle from uber powerful movers and shakers (dragons, beholders, illithids) behind the scenes that has been going on for millennia.

The Slow Game might involve such notables as Khelben and Halaster (maybe even Ioulaum) which puts the chosen of Mystra / mystryl in the running, and deities and their clergy that do not believe in open conflict (it mentions not Siamorphe and Chauntea but that means Silvanus and Eldath are possibilities). Part of this Slow Game is that someone might be compelling the orcs to horde every few decades (perhaps to advance their society so they are able to cooperate with each other and with other races).

Something very interesting for me. Was the Fall of Delzoun, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, and all the Fallen Kingdoms part of this Slow Game. It certainly seems like the bad guys are winning, but i wouldnt put it past Khelben to cause such destruction if it meant the orcs took the brunt of some other evil that might come down from the Spine of the World.

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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
6316 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2022 :  15:14:24  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Further to the Slow Game, a later article about The Vellurith could also be linked to this.

The Vellurith is a game beholders play to supposedly advance the aims of the Great Mother, and includes some weird aims and objectives (loving the idea of a city in Faerun sat atop a portal to a plane of beholders, this city almost certainly existed in Netheril or Imaskar - to my mind anyway).

At the end the Vellurith articles mention that Elminster once knew about the game and had a hand in setting some of the objectives (as per some unknown agreement between Mystryl or Mystra I and the Great Mother). Elminster also believes Khelben is involved in the Vellurith somehow.

Now if Khelben was also involved in the Slow Game and the Vellurith involves multiple objectives to advance the spread and development of the beholder race (including overthrowing dynasties and kingdoms and having beholders rule an entire continent) then this sounds a lot like the Slow Game to me. So Khelben is using beholders in his play of the Slow Game.

Even better, the Vellurith hinted that Khelben might be involved so he can learn how to transfer himself into a new body (which i think is what the Blackstaff is about, he double bluffs everyone into thinking he died when secretly he transferred himself into another body).


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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
6316 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2023 :  16:47:22  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Anyone heard of the elder rune? I believe it is referring to an organisation

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Karthak
Seeker

55 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2023 :  22:43:26  Show Profile Send Karthak a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There's two answers that I've found, I'd probably combine them as the Elder Rune being a separate group run by some of the liches to uncover Elder Runes, such as the ones that Halaster possesses.


Elder Rune
- THO 28/8/14
The "Elder Rune" is what the most senior members of the Twisted Rune call themselves, meaning "we who possess the most self-discipline and actually stick to very long term goals, rather than indulging in some of the excesses and short-term, 'grabby' pursuits of more junior members."


From Ed's twitter

Q: In your Forging the Realms article on the beholder game of the Vellurith, one of the stated goals is "Subvert the Elder Rune or Larloch and his liches". Is that supposed to be the Twisted Rune, or is this a distinct sinister lich cabal?

A: A distinct cabal. And their name proclaims what they're interested in, which is a rune that subverts other runes and so can open wards, unseal bindings, and open or close gates/portals.
Oh, and congratulations: you've stumbled on one of the secrets of the Realms!
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Gary Dallison
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6316 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2023 :  07:08:46  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ooh, thats a good one, and it leads into a 3rd lore hook which are the dwarven elder runes, which are almost completely undetailed but we know have a new one, the Elder Rune of Teleportation that allows the user to override the operation of any portal upon which it is placed.

I'm guessing the Elder Rune found evidence of its existence in Shanatar, and it is probably located in Alatorin. I wonder if the Elder Rune of Teleportation was used by the cloakers to connect the bridge to the shadowfell.

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Edited by - Gary Dallison on 05 Jan 2023 07:12:22
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6572 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2023 :  07:43:47  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ed has this to say about Elder Runes here at the 'Keep years ago:

“Elder runes” is a collective modern-day Realms term, probably coined by an unknown human sage at least a thousand years ago (because it’s about that long ago that the term gradually seeps into common usage among students and workers of magic), referring to a growing (as they’re “rediscovered”) collection of magical symbols (probably NOT of common origins) used by long-ago workers of magic.

More specifically, we know that some Netherese (and a handful of their scattered descendants, after the fall of that realm) used them, and also that before that, dwarves of Besilmer employed some of what we now call ‘elder runes, ’ and may well have merely augmented and expanded upon runes in use earlier among the Stout Folk. The names now used for many of the known elder runes hint that elves also used them, and adventurers know that certain shamans among the goblinkin (orcs, goblins, and especially hobgoblins) draw them to this day.

There are tales that certain ‘sensitive’ beings can feel the nearby presence of any elder rune, and that runes of the same sort are somehow linked (no matter how distant one drawing of Angras may be from another, teleportation of a person, item, or just a verbal message [emitted aloud but in some cases also stored in the rune until it is next touched, or even after] between them is possible).
Although the runes have acquired ‘wayfarer’ meanings (noting the presence of shelter, for instance), it’s clear they formerly also had other meanings and purposes.

Most of them possessed now-exhausted magical powers, a few still store these magics, and almost all of them, if whole (i.e. the drawn glyph isn’t broken by damage to the drawing or the surface it’s graven upon), can be ‘recharged’ with magic by those who know how.

And there’s the rub: elder runes have magical powers only if imbued with such by many now-forgotten spells that can be cast upon them at any time. Most of the beings still ‘alive’ who know such magics are either dragons or undead (usually liches). It’s certain that some dragons and baelnorn deliberately recharge elder runes often to bolster defenses around lairs, caches, hoards, and ruined dwellings.

In Realmsplay, I’ve never detailed those spells, but used the runes as (usually) harmless ‘dungeon decoration,’ but sometimes as waiting magical traps that unleash just about any spell effect I wanted them to, to enhance whatever unfolding adventure the Knights were currently having. (In short, they were one more of my DM’s ‘bag of tricks,’ useful because their mere presence and numbers could help to ‘steer’ the Knights into or away from a particular doorway or tomb, by hinting that a place was well-guarded or important.) As I recall, THO can impart a particularly fond memory of one elder rune that, ahem, entertained her.

It should be noted that the line up of elder runes was first set out in the FR Adventures hardcover and I believe one of the 5E books (Storm King's Thunder?) uses them also.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 07 Jan 2023 07:44:05
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
6316 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2023 :  09:11:06  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting, so we could be potentially looking at two separate things here.

I'm sure in previous posts, Ed has said that Rune Magic does not use the Weave.

And yet, Netherese using Elder Runes and the fact that they can be linked across vast distances and created by a standard set of spells (presumably weave spells), implies that the Elder Runes referred to by human scholars is in fact Weave based magic.

So assuming the dwarves of Besilmer did in fact introduce Rune Magic into the Weave based off of the original dwarven "Elder Runes" and this then spread to Netherese and the rest of Faerun, and has become the basis for mage sigils and runes of power and perhaps in fact forms part of the arcane alphabet.


So is the Elder Rune (the cabal within the twisted rune) pursuing these weave based runes, or the more original Elder Runes of the dwarves and giants from long long ago. (i'm going to assume the latter). Maybe one of the Elder Rune has this ability to perceive Elder Runes, they certainly have liches and dragons in abundance among the Twisted Rune.

I'm sure i recall dwarves near Mulhorand many thousands of years ago destroying their entire realm with a super powerful elder rune. That kind of magic i'm assuming is the super ancient dwarven Elder Rune.

I always viewed the Elder (dwarf and giant) Elder Runes to be artefact level magic, a unique rune that when used could cause climactic changes. Kind of like a dwarven version of elven High Magic. This one would not use the Weave, which is why its soo much more powerful, but also it is super dangerous and probably required several master runesmiths to sacrifice themselves to make one.


Just a thought or two.

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TBeholder
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2315 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2023 :  19:59:14  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Interesting, so we could be potentially looking at two separate things here.

I'm sure in previous posts, Ed has said that Rune Magic does not use the Weave.

I'd like to see the exact source on that, but either way...
But this "use the Weave" is at very least 3 things:
1. Are the internal rules it follows set by the Weave or external to it?
2. Is it accessed to begin with via the Weave? This may have more than one answer sometimes.
3. Is it powered by the Weave in the final effect?

For example, consider spells allowing meaningful access to raw magic for the casters who normally don't have it - but themselves are still spells working just like all other spells of their type. Per good ol' AD&D2 Tome of Magic, some wild magic spells do just this.
Then there are mythals and Mavin's Worldweave - spell-fields that presumably need the Weave for relevant spells to be cast, but their effects seem to be essentially "reach through the Weave to the things underlying it".
quote:
And yet, Netherese using Elder Runes and the fact that they can be linked across vast distances and created by a standard set of spells (presumably weave spells), implies that the Elder Runes referred to by human scholars is in fact Weave based magic.

Rune magic is likely to have "no" in (1), which is enough for e.g. the Windwalker plot to make simple sense where the Weave (and thus Mystra) is concerned.

As to (2), consider something close to runes: savant glyphs (Secrets of the Sunless Seas). The same set of glyphs can be created by priests, wizards and psionicists alike, with no difference in the effect. There are limits that apply to everyone: 1 glyph/day created and as many glyph elements (which range from 1 for "simple glyphs" to 4 for "complex master glyphs") maintained at any time, i.e. they are all linked to the caster even if non-interactive. The "simple glyphs" include glyph of warding effects, but with such properties they are something different.
The spells used to create them in Realmspace usually are Weave magic, of course (there's no reason a Shadow Weave user could not learn this), but those glyphs themselves do not look like Weave magic. They are subject to dispel... but then, so are Shadow Weave effects.
They may be related to psionic seals if anything. But rather than versatile state machine that takes months to build even in the most basic version, it's simple and "permanent until discharged", so fairly quick to create and mostly with harmful effects.
Edit: more juicy details on the glyphs.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
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Edited by - TBeholder on 09 Jan 2023 00:34:47
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
6316 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2023 :  21:31:37  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I'll consider just runes for the moment.

Liriel crafting a rune and carving it on that tree which is then supposed to affect multiple beings across the planet sounds to me like liriel added a new rune into the weave by carving it into a weave node, thereby making it available to anyone (if they know about it).

This is probably what the dwarves did that allowed besilmer dwarves to use them so readily and allow the netherese and other weave users to access them through the weave.

Now I just need to check when those sea faring dwarves existed and might have discovered ruathym

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Lord Karsus
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USA
3729 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2023 :  19:37:39  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-The 2e Book of Artifacts had random Realmslore thrown in. Mostly Hordelands/Kara-Tur stuff involving artifacts (duh) and the history of their creation and impact and whatever.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Edited by - Lord Karsus on 08 Jan 2023 19:37:57
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TBeholder
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2315 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2023 :  00:48:46  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Liriel crafting a rune and carving it on that tree which is then supposed to affect multiple beings across the planet sounds to me like liriel added a new rune into the weave by carving it into a weave node, thereby making it available to anyone (if they know about it).

My point is, Mystra has minions, raw power, sovereignty over the Weave. She can use those in any combination: for example, a designated Magister can disable a given spell, everywhere in Realmspace at once, just like that. And she wants to fix some part of the Weave.
But if a given repair requires poking into "external devices", it's not just a matter of expenses or risks/benefits anymore. The knobs that need to be twisted are outside her sandbox, and there are hoops that need jumping on the way to these, according to some rules not defined within the Weave. Thus some eligible hoop-jumpers are required.
Since rune magic was used this way, and there were indeed hoops that had to be jumped long before contact with certain extraplanar vegetation, this incident supports the hypothesis of rune magic being not entirely defined by/within the Weave.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch

Edited by - TBeholder on 09 Jan 2023 01:08:44
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
6316 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2023 :  07:44:38  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh good, i'm not used to people agreeing with me (even if only in part), i misunderstood your point (more down to my attention span than anything else).

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sleyvas
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Posted - 09 Jan 2023 :  22:31:48  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Regarding "special runes" .... I'd throw out here that the "geoglyphs" of the geomancers of Zakhara may be another example of such "Elder Runes". Granted, in 2e lore "they had to combine wizard and cleric magic".... that could easily be interpreted as "they had to understand the underpinnings between multiple types of magic". For that matter, some might tie these Elder runes to the power of Elder powers, and arguably Grumbar may be one of those.

On Liriel carving a rune into Yggdrasil's Child.... that tree is a seed of Yggdrasil. I personally consider Yggdrasil as much more "widespread" than Mystra's weave and probably it's own kind of nascent "weave", and Mystra's "weave" may use its "anchors" in a way similar to a cell tower hosting multiple cellular carriers..... which as I read TBeholder's I believe kind of matches his concepts. So, it wouldn't necessarily imply that these runes "use the weave" so much as "they can use the points where Yggdrasil and the weave overlap to invade the weave".

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 09 Jan 2023 22:40:54
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Gary Dallison
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6316 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2023 :  07:19:19  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm pretty sure the way the weave works, and the novels appear to support this (Dangerous Games most recently and surprisingly), is that various places and objects (and even people) actually exude raw magic in varying degrees.

Some of these things pump out huge amounts of raw magic, meteorites being the biggest sources (as shown by the annasherion).

The Weave exists because the keepers of the weave (initially the baetith, then the Church of Mystryl and Mystra) have gone around and turned these raw magic sources into weave nodes (the exact process has never been detailed).

So what we have is a large number (in the thousands) of raw magic emitters, that are modified to change that dangerous raw magic into the much more stable weave, which today exists as a series of overlapping emitters that cover almost all of Toril.

Because these weave nodes overlap, and because they are all interlinked, any spells stored in the weave (the keepers of the weave literally have to add the spell into a weave node) is available to all users of the weave via a series of standardised components.


So yggdrasil's child, whatever it is, has been converted to a weave node at some point in the past, and when liriel carved the rune onto the tree she literally added a new rune / spell to the weave that will presumably become available to all weave users as soon as the Church of Mystra discovers its existence and spreads that knowledge across Toril.


Now, the weave has beings living in it, i propose that each weave node has a guardian sentience that defends it (it would be foolish to leave something so valuable unguarded).

Also, it seems to me that people can be weave nodes as well (the chosen as one group), and the Mystra is constantly creating more weave nodes. I reckon each magister that transforms into an artefact or a living spell, etc, all become weave nodes as well.


Just my thoughts on what the weave actually is, and how all this stuff works.

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sleyvas
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Posted - 10 Jan 2023 :  15:43:18  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I'm pretty sure the way the weave works, and the novels appear to support this (Dangerous Games most recently and surprisingly), is that various places and objects (and even people) actually exude raw magic in varying degrees.

Some of these things pump out huge amounts of raw magic, meteorites being the biggest sources (as shown by the annasherion).

The Weave exists because the keepers of the weave (initially the baetith, then the Church of Mystryl and Mystra) have gone around and turned these raw magic sources into weave nodes (the exact process has never been detailed).

So what we have is a large number (in the thousands) of raw magic emitters, that are modified to change that dangerous raw magic into the much more stable weave, which today exists as a series of overlapping emitters that cover almost all of Toril.

Because these weave nodes overlap, and because they are all interlinked, any spells stored in the weave (the keepers of the weave literally have to add the spell into a weave node) is available to all users of the weave via a series of standardised components.


So yggdrasil's child, whatever it is, has been converted to a weave node at some point in the past, and when liriel carved the rune onto the tree she literally added a new rune / spell to the weave that will presumably become available to all weave users as soon as the Church of Mystra discovers its existence and spreads that knowledge across Toril.


Now, the weave has beings living in it, i propose that each weave node has a guardian sentience that defends it (it would be foolish to leave something so valuable unguarded).

Also, it seems to me that people can be weave nodes as well (the chosen as one group), and the Mystra is constantly creating more weave nodes. I reckon each magister that transforms into an artefact or a living spell, etc, all become weave nodes as well.


Just my thoughts on what the weave actually is, and how all this stuff works.



Maybe this comes from being a network engineer and wanting to picture the "logic" of how this works... I'm going to throw out a concept here and some folks may not get what I'm leading to because they don't have this kind of background..... I'm not saying your wrong mind you, I'm trying to specify HOW they might be converted.

It is probably best to view what happens to these nodes as not "they are converted to the weave".... but rather.... a virtual interface is added to them. This virtual interface begins acting as a weave node and "routes" magical energy across a "tunnel"/"ley line"/"Mesh" that it creates to other weave nodes (i.e. other things with virtual interfaces). When a spellcaster develops the ability to wield weave magic, they are essentially adding themselves to this "mesh", much like a PC being added to a local wireless network, and as they proceed outside the range of one weave node, they transition to another one. So, just like your local router in your house may advertise multiple wireless networks using different authentication options, these nodes might actually advertise for multiple different "weaves" at the same time. Mystra's "weave nodes" are simply "wireless networks" with only a few different SSID's and passwords, and when someone loses the ability to access the weave they've just "started using the wrong passwords to hook to the wireless, because somehow their saved password got changed".

Now, this concept has at least one flaw... the "shadow weave" ... which supposedly existed anywhere where Mystra's weave didn't. My answer to this is quite simple... people didn't understand what the shadow weave was, and Shar was pushing this misunderstanding to attain more power. It was just another virtual route forwarding table composed of "shadow weave nodes" that was being extended across the mesh that is created by magic itself.

Hopefully I wasn't too vague here and what I just said makes sense to most folks.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 10 Jan 2023 :  17:22:22  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm unsure how it works but i suspect shar is clergy are turning weave nodes into shadow weave nodes. Now I dont know if that means they stop being weave nodes or whether they become both, or perhaps they can be both but shar doesnt want them to be both.

Anauroch empire of shade certainly had the whole focus be about trying to turn a former weave node (one set of nether scrolls) into a shadow weave node (at least that's how I interpreted it).

The sharrans also had wholly Shadow Weave nodes created from scratch (i.e. not subverted weave nodes). The Shadow Stone, the Shadow Engine, Karsus' Heart to name a few

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Edited by - Gary Dallison on 10 Jan 2023 20:09:10
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sleyvas
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Posted - 10 Jan 2023 :  19:07:34  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now THAT I could buy.... that they were simply assuming that swapping weave nodes to shadow weave nodes would comprise "anywhere the weave isn't". Then it could be said that it was an intrinsic misunderstanding of the extent of magic beyond the weave by Shar's worshippers. In my previous example, that would simply be changing the "wireless SSID" to be one used by the "shadow weave" and creating a "tunnel"/"ley line" to another shadow weave node.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 10 Jan 2023 :  20:03:36  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
On a completely unrelated note, I found in the Anauroch sourcebook that Anauroch once referred only to the High Ice.

quote:
The name Anauroch once meant just what is now called the High Ice: a rift-scarred glacial ice sheet, that gave way (as one travelled south) to rocky uplands where many wild sheep roamed, and thence to thick forests where stags reigned and dryads dwelt. Those uplands, now scoured to bare rock, are known today as the Plain of Standing Stones.


This coupled with the song from Giantcraft means that Ranauroch was likely the giant kingdom noted in Portals of the Frozen Wastes (of which Chosein was just one city located in the High Ice).

Notably the singer of the song was a son of Ottar (sire of all frost giants and likely the ruler of the frost giant kingdom of Ostoria), and the hero depicted in the ballad was a grandson of Ottar, whose father levelled Ranauroch. So it sounds like Ranauroch was destroyed by some dynastic strife).

And then the hero of the ballad slays a super big dragon and drowns in a river of the dragons blood, which in my interpretation sounds like he was slain by the dragon's children. I'd venture he struggled with the dragons of Hoarfaern and was slain.

Further to that, given the qorrashi (ice genies) involvement in Ranauroch (according to the portals of the frozen wastes), then the Bedine likely travelled to Anauroch using a portal created by the giants that linked to Zakhara

Just some random thoughts.

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Edited by - Gary Dallison on 10 Jan 2023 20:07:28
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 11 Jan 2023 :  20:07:00  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Random thought about Hssthak,

Why is this sarrukh from Isstosseffifil not located within the underground palace where all the other sarrukh rulers live.

Is Hssthak not one of the rulers of Isstosseffifil, was he cast out, or did he leave the palace to pursue his own plans during his tenure as King of Oreme (like the terraseer did with Netheril) and become trapped.

What was he doing in that crypt in the first place. When the nether scrolls were stolen in -2436 DR, why did they not free hssthak, or more importantly why did hssthak not kill the thief.

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 19 Jan 2023 :  21:28:43  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Anyone ever noticed that the language of the Bedine is Uloushinn, while the language of the northern bits of Faerun is Ulou, the Rengarth the Ulutiu, the arthraen or suren nar (i never figured out which one spoke Ulou).

Now its entirely possible the Bedine picked up bits of Ulou from the Low Netherese remnants (although i'm fairly certain they actually merged with High Netherese survivors only).

However, the Bedine originate from Zakhara, and the Land of Fate uses a lot of similar names for things (keffiyeh, jambiya, etc). I realise these are real world names, but as it stands the indicators are that the Ulou people actually originate in Zakhara.

Again this points to the giants of Ostoria having a portal (or portals) linking their empire to Zakhara (where they got Qorasshi genies from), and it must have been through these malfunctioning and really ancient portals, that the Ulou people arrived in northern Faerun.

Just a thought, but in summary, Ulou people arrive in northern Faerun from Zakhara through ancient portals of Ostoria, then split into Ice Hunters, Rengarth, Ulutiuns, Nar (Arthraen or Suren, or both), etc.

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TomCosta
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Posted - 26 Jan 2023 :  16:06:29  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So this is totally a conflict of when source material came out and changes to the languages between editions (a whole topic on its own). The naming of Uloushinn in the 2E Anauroch supplement and my language article precedes the linkage of the Bedine to Zakhara. We now know from various sources, but Races of Faerun is in front of me, that the Bedine come through a portal after the fall of Netheril in -339 DR (long after Ostoria) and intermingled with some of the Netherese survivors (mostly low Netherese), but still spoke Zakhara's Midani.

I would reframe the the origins of Uloushinn, so it is actually a dialect of Midani that incorporates a fair number of Low Ulutim (and other Ulou/Netherese language bits) into it and that scholars saw the similarities to the other Ulou languages without realizing the stronger connection to Midani.
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TomCosta
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Posted - 26 Jan 2023 :  16:08:55  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So this is totally a conflict of when source material came out and changes to the languages between editions (a whole topic on its own, though I will say the wiki has generally done a good job of threading the needle on the languages of the various editions). The naming of Uloushinn in the 2E Anauroch supplement and my language article in Dragon (that established the various language groups) precedes the linkage of the Bedine to Zakhara. We now know from various sources, but Races of Faerun is in front of me, that the Bedine come through a portal after the fall of Netheril in -339 DR (long after Ostoria) and intermingled with some of the Netherese survivors (mostly low Netherese), but still spoke Zakhara's Midani.

I would reframe the the origins of Uloushinn, so it is actually a dialect of Midani that incorporates a fair number of Low Ulutim (and other Ulou/Netherese language bits) into it and that scholars saw the similarities to the other Ulou languages without realizing the stronger connection to Midani.
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 19 Feb 2023 :  14:45:05  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, Velror the Sultan of Rhentria, a "kingdom" which may have existed in the lands formerly occupied by Anauria.


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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 21 Feb 2023 :  21:45:21  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So Thaalud it would seem are interested in the "source of all magic" but they ignore drow radiation magic items and they ignore dwarf and svirfneblin magics.

Just one possible theory, but if old dwarf items use rune magic separate from the Weave (newer dwarf magics do use the weave), and drow radiation magics use do not use the weave to power them (i'm fairly sure the demonweave was actually the linkage of faerzress nodes into a weave of sorts).

Perhaps the Thaalud are searching for a powerful weave anchor buried in the anauroch desert. Once they find that would they then move onto other regions.

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