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Moschito
Acolyte
5 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Nov 2022 : 21:47:18
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Hi guys, I need some information in the forgotten realms do blood wizards exist? (Except the Zhengyian blood magic which is akin to a form of sorcerer origin).
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2022 : 22:50:26
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Ed has mentioned blood magic in the past, prior to 3e so I would say that, yes, there are blood wizards in the realms (not just the type you mentioned). No rules specific to them have been released by anyone. I took a swing at it and had what I thought may be a viable set of rules, but they didn't test well. Right now, I am leaning towards rules basically the same as a mage only the magic is counted as being divine instead of arcane and that the mage gets fatigued the more they cast since each spell pulls some blood out of them. You could use a version of the spell casting fatigue rules on page 80 of the 2e Player's Option: Spells & Magic book.
Edit: fixed typo. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Edited by - TheIriaeban on 08 Nov 2022 22:51:27 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12008 Posts |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2022 : 18:03:41
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| Considering that the Blood Mage was featured in 3.5 as a Prestige Class and in 4e as a Paragon Path, I'm willing to go out on a limb and say such arcane practices are used in the Realms. Who are the main practitioners are or what sort of rights they utilize could certainly be fleshed out more, but "Blood magic" definitely exists. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2022 : 18:28:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Considering that the Blood Mage was featured in 3.5 as a Prestige Class and in 4e as a Paragon Path, I'm willing to go out on a limb and say such arcane practices are used in the Realms. Who are the main practitioners are or what sort of rights they utilize could certainly be fleshed out more, but "Blood magic" definitely exists.
Is it the same as the blood mages in the Pathfinder setting? I'm not familiar with the 3.5 PrC. |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2022 : 18:52:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Considering that the Blood Mage was featured in 3.5 as a Prestige Class and in 4e as a Paragon Path, I'm willing to go out on a limb and say such arcane practices are used in the Realms. Who are the main practitioners are or what sort of rights they utilize could certainly be fleshed out more, but "Blood magic" definitely exists.
I haven't seen those. Where is the 3.5 Blood Mage prestige class described? |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2022 : 19:39:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Is it the same as the blood mages in the Pathfinder setting? I'm not familiar with the 3.5 PrC.
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
I haven't seen those. Where is the 3.5 Blood Mage prestige class described?
So, I'm not sure what similarities the Blood Mage from 3.5 has in common with the Pathfinder version, as I don't know what supplement the PF one is from. The Blood Magus is a Prestige Class from the Complete Arcane book, pg 26. It is actually Magus, not Mage if that has any difference of meaning.
Without posting the full PrC here on the thread or linking it to someplace that might get us in trouble with Copyright stuff (a quick google will get you the mechanics of the class) it's basically a mage class that can only be obtained if the caster has been killed and brought back from the dead. The unique quality of this PrC is that it's not completely based off of a slot-based caster (like a Wizard or Sorcerer) but can also be used by any class that has an arcane caster progression (like the Warlock).
It can use blood as material components for it's spells, he can endure more damage when concentrating while casting, automatically becomes table when going less than -10 HP, can "scar" himself and use his skin like an arcane scroll, use Death Knell as a spell-like ability, store spells into his blood (like Brew Potion, but its in his blood), and create a blood homunculus, among other things. The class has 12 unique features in addition to a d6 HD, good Fort saves, and 8/10 casting progression. |
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Edited by - Diffan on 09 Nov 2022 19:39:50 |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2022 : 19:48:47
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| Thank you. I have already grabbed that book Sleyvas mentioned, and I will look up that info on the web. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Edited by - TheIriaeban on 09 Nov 2022 19:56:52 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12008 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2022 : 21:31:21
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| On the novel, I will say it wasn't horrible, but it didn't stick out as great either. I just remember it was down near the Chondath area'ish, and I recall it featured maybe a paladin of Hoar the Doombringer as well. That being said, a lot of the novels have started to fall into that category with me where I read them and now I can only vaguely say what happened in them. Even Elaine's stuff with moonblades... I remember enjoying them... I can't remember the plots so much anymore. I remember loving Evermeet... and I have no idea what happened in it anymore. Guess watching so many tv series, reading so many books, etc... I've started to get overload. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2022 : 21:44:59
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Or,like me, you are just getting older. I may not remember a specific item in something I have read but I will remember an emotion connected to it or a specific song I was listening to as I read it (and when I hear that song again, it is connected to that item).
Anyway, the reviews on Amazon seemed to be positive and it will give me something else to read. Right now, I am re-reading Han Solo at Star's End. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2022 : 00:53:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Is it the same as the blood mages in the Pathfinder setting? I'm not familiar with the 3.5 PrC.
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
I haven't seen those. Where is the 3.5 Blood Mage prestige class described?
So, I'm not sure what similarities the Blood Mage from 3.5 has in common with the Pathfinder version, as I don't know what supplement the PF one is from. The Blood Magus is a Prestige Class from the Complete Arcane book, pg 26. It is actually Magus, not Mage if that has any difference of meaning.
Without posting the full PrC here on the thread or linking it to someplace that might get us in trouble with Copyright stuff (a quick google will get you the mechanics of the class) it's basically a mage class that can only be obtained if the caster has been killed and brought back from the dead. The unique quality of this PrC is that it's not completely based off of a slot-based caster (like a Wizard or Sorcerer) but can also be used by any class that has an arcane caster progression (like the Warlock).
It can use blood as material components for it's spells, he can endure more damage when concentrating while casting, automatically becomes table when going less than -10 HP, can "scar" himself and use his skin like an arcane scroll, use Death Knell as a spell-like ability, store spells into his blood (like Brew Potion, but its in his blood), and create a blood homunculus, among other things. The class has 12 unique features in addition to a d6 HD, good Fort saves, and 8/10 casting progression.
The Pathfinder Blood Mage first gains control of their own blood, and can wound themselves to use their blood for metamagic feats. As they get more powerful, their metamagic feats get more powerful, and they can use their blood or the blood of others for it. They can also haste or slow someone else by controlling their blood, and even cause others to bleed, with a gesture, so the blood mage can use that person's blood. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2475 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2022 : 01:16:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Moschito
Hi guys, I need some information in the forgotten realms do blood wizards exist?
It's quite improbable that no wizards did call themselves so, considering the common mage-sanity and posturing. Likely, several over the millennia. Even not counting the vampires. More than a few spells involve blood, and people obsess with weirder things, after all.
There does not seem to be a distinct tradition in Realms, however, even semi-obscure like incantatrices.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
https://www.amazon.com/Bloodwalk-Forgotten-Realms-James-Davis/dp/0786940182
(read the blurb) (read the summary on FR wikia)
...Did Toril require reset to its former non-peanut status after that?  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2022 : 15:18:52
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I started reading Bloodwalk and it would seem that what is being depicted there is the Blood Magus. Now, given the context of how blood magic has been discussed by Ed, it is my opinion that a Blood Magus is to a blood mage as a shadow mage is to a Shadow Weave caster. They are similar but there are some basic differences.
One way to handle blood magic is to take a page from the Shadow Weave restrictions/benefits and make it to where a blood mage cannot cast certain types of spells. Maybe they cannot cast any necromancy spell (or use a necromantic magic item) where the target does not have blood or a blood-like fluid (like icor in vampires). Another option is to take a look at the Wizard Character Design Rules on page 24 of the 2e PO:S&M and create something that really gives them some "flavor" versus a regular mage. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2022 : 17:29:24
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Shadowrun had balanced rules for blood magic which might be worthwhile inspiration. They were intended for NPC antagonists, but they could be applied to PCs.
The unavoidable detail is the blood invariably comes from living things. So using blood to fuel magic invariably means killing or harming living things.
This might be a workable novelty in Evil-aligned campaigns, another fearsomely evil power to pull out of your pocket. But a PC blood mage would be viewed by others as something like an evil necromancer, an evil vampire, an evil fiend - a misguided, unfortunate, accursed, monstrous, and dangerous threat which is feared and avoided, which heroes must hunt and slay to defend society. Finding volunteers willing to donate their blood might be difficult. Finding vengeful volunteers with diseased, poisoned, tainted blood might be too easy. Expect paladins, druids, bounty hunters, and all manner of self-appointed Van Helsing types to constantly hound any blood mages they discover.
Magic in the Realms is already quite capable of accomplishing pretty much anything imaginable without the need to sacrifice living blood. So blood magic must offer some kind of advantage - a shortcut to more power - which attracts blood mages away from other traditions and disciplines. Blood mages might actually be more akin to priests or warlocks than to wizards and sorcerers, they might gain other abilities and powers through a pact, essentially serving as instruments and vassals for a divine (or fiendish) sponsor. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 10 Nov 2022 17:37:50 |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2022 : 18:31:06
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| A blood mage need not be evil. They could also be someone willing to help others even though it will cause them pain (if there is a required loss of hps and they use themselves as the source.) Now, people may not know that so there may still be a stigma associated until that individual proves themselves otherwise. I have a blood mage NPC and some people think she is a vampire. There has been an incident or two around that. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12008 Posts |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2022 : 17:57:33
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I took a look at the design rules in PO:S&M and was able to come up with the following. Using blood/hp drain for every spell cast is problematic even though I created a statistical analysis of several means to handle that. In the end, I took a page from the mantle spell and decided that a daily ceremony would make the most sense.
Blood Mage
Students of blood magic delve into forbidden lore in their quest to understand and control the forces of life. A character must be extraordinarily fit in order to succeed at these studies—a blood mage must have a Constitution (Constitution/Fitness) of 16 or higher in order to withstand the rigors of blood magic as well as an Intelligence (Intelligence/Knowledge) of 16. Blood magic is opposed by artifice and those spells of enchantment/charm and necromancy that do not affect living creatures/things.
Blood mages gain many benefits. Since blood magic operates outside of The Weave, dead magic or wild magic zones have no effect. Blood mages are also able to use spells restricted to Necromancers as long as the spell targets the living. Finally, due to blood magic being fueled by life’s blood, blood magic spell casting does not require any material components unless the spell calls for something specific like a gem for magic jar or a small chest for Leomund’s secret chest.
A blood mage also has many restrictions. The first of which is that blood magic requires blood to be used to power the spells. To do this, a blood mage must perform a ceremony every 24 hours where they pay 1 hp for every four experience levels (rounded up) up to a maximum of 5 hp. This ceremony takes 1 round per hit point paid. If it is interrupted, no hit points are lost but until it is completed, every spell that is cast costs the blood mage 1 hit point. Any hit points paid to cast spells before the ceremony is completed are not recovered. Other people’s blood can be used for spell casting, but the blood mage will need to be touching a bleeding wound and the “donor” is allowed a saving throw vs. spell to prevent the hit point drain. A successful save prevents the spell from going into effect even though the blood mage loses the spell just as if it was successfully cast.
As previously mentioned, blood magic is opposed by spells from the enchantment/charm and necromancy spells that do not affect the living. This means the many spells from those schools that do not affect the living are unusable for a blood mage. This extends to any magic items that duplicates the effects of those spells.
Finally, since a blood mage is considered a wizard, most of the magic items that were made for wizards will work with a few exceptions. Items that would feed arcane energy to the wearer will not work for a blood mage since they use divine magic (a rod of absorption will work since it can provide both arcane and divine energy). Items that will increase the wizard’s ability to memorize spells (like a ring of wizardry) will work. When in doubt, if the item will benefit a priest as well as a wizard, the blood mage can use it.
The blood mage commands a variety of powerful spells much like the standard mage. The only real difference is in the standard mage’s capability of affecting undead and the magical manipulation of non-living objects. It is there that the blood mage’s penchant for the living makes itself known.
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"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Edited by - TheIriaeban on 12 Nov 2022 18:11:15 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2022 : 05:23:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
[quote]
The Pathfinder Blood Mage first gains control of their own blood, and can wound themselves to use their blood for metamagic feats. As they get more powerful, their metamagic feats get more powerful, and they can use their blood or the blood of others for it. They can also haste or slow someone else by controlling their blood, and even cause others to bleed, with a gesture, so the blood mage can use that person's blood.
I just saw this now, lol. I'll definitely have to check it out. We haven't run PF1e in a long while but I think this has some great potential for a really bad BBEG. Sort of like blood-benders from Avatar. Or I might have to do some converting to other systems... |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Blood magic
