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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Mar 2022 : 05:59:26
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When this group was introduced, I was curious if they ever followed up on the plot of the Harpers being split and also what they were going for. It seemed like a somewhat silly split for players and I didn't get the point for the larger story.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2022 : 10:03:03
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I think the overall objective was to get away from the image of the Harpers as meddling goody-goodies that were everywhere, looking to slap down any evil they could find. The overall goals of the Moonstars were the same as what the Harpers were originally about, but they were more willing to embrace shades of grey in pursuit of those goals. The Moonstars were Batman to the Harpers' Superman.
I think it particularly noteworthy that the Moonstar agent PrC specified that a Harper becoming a Moonstar did not lose the divine gifts given to Harpers.
As for being followed up, it was unceremoniously dropped when 3E came out. I believe it was Rich Baker who stated that he didn't like the Schism and thus decided it would be ignored.
The Manshoon Wars were similarly kicked to the curb with the advent of 3E. |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2022 : 14:06:09
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| They never put out a 3E Cloak and Dagger update, right? I haven't seen one but maybe I just missed it. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2022 : 15:23:26
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The Moonstars are basically Harpers who are willing to follow Khelben's orders without flinching. Wooly compared Moonstars to Batman. I compare the Moonstars to John Constantine.  |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2022 : 15:26:10
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
They never put out a 3E Cloak and Dagger update, right? I haven't seen one but maybe I just missed it.
Unfortunately, I saw no updates from any edition after the second. My disappointment is palpable. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2022 : 19:23:26
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I saw a statement by someone that the Moonstars were destroyed in Blackstaff Tower (novel), which made me wonder about the subject.
quote:
The Moonstars are basically Harpers who are willing to follow Khelben's orders without flinching. Wooly compared Moonstars to Batman. I compare the Moonstars to John Constantine.
I admit, it's a weird statement because I can't think of ANY person less likely to obey orders without question than John Constantine.
:) |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 22 Mar 2022 19:25:08 |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2022 : 19:27:03
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| Unfortunately, Steven Schend was not able to further this plotline and it more or less died on the vine. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2022 : 19:28:27
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quote:
Unfortunately, Steven Schend was not able to further this plotline and it more or less died on the vine.
Given I've been absent from the Realms for almost a decade, may I ask for some more detail on what happened? |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2022 : 13:59:47
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I admit I was confused about the split-up with the Harpers and Moonstars myself because I think it was one of those cases where it was a solution to problem I hadn't actually ever encountered or even was aware existed. As mentioned by Wooly, it seemed to be that there was a faction of the fanbase that assumed the Harpers were the Justice League and the general defenders of the weak and helpless.
However, my impression of the Harpers was that they were always more Neutral than Good or at least more of an even balance. They're manipulative, meddlesome, and prone to doing all sorts of covert actions that upset the balance of the Realms. Yes, we know they're generally good guys but I was thinking more "stabbing people and spying" versus "heroic heroism."
So when Khelben has a story about using the Specter of the Sorcerer Kings with Fzoul to destroy a Banelich and negotiating a treaty out of it, my reaction was, "Isn't this the stuff the Harpers are supposed to do?" It destroyed a powerful dangerous artifact designed to destroy the influence of the gods and also one of Bane's high priests. We never found out what the threat that Khelben foresaw was but with hindsight, we can say it was Bane's return and that Khelben may have delayed it for a time.
(We can also say Fzoul Chembyrl's rise to power actually brought it about since he promptly cleaned house as Xvim's Chosen and the resulting Banefog helped bring about Bane's resurrection somehow)
But it also seemed like the Harpers were portrayed as utterly unreasonable and significantly less "cool" than the Moonstars. After all, if you have to make a choice between Khelben and some random ranger then most people will choose Khelben. Also, Khelben's plot seemed to work just fine so throwing him out was additionally ridiculous. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2022 : 15:05:39
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I saw the schism as more of a "pissing contest". The Harper leadership in Berdusk, influenced by Bran Skorlsun, wanted more control over the Harpers. A "tightening of the reins" so to speak. The more independent minded didn't like that and saw it as a blatant power grab. So, you have people that Harper leadership says aren't Harpers because they aren't under their control while you have others who say they are Harpers because they follow the ideas behind the Harpers, the Harper leadership be damned.
Khelben doing what he did didn't help any, either. He probably saw his resignation as a perfect chance to do some more recruiting for his organization from those Harpers who were not happy about that power grab.
Sadly, this storyline didn't get a chance to continue. I was thinking that this was due to a Zhentarim infiltration of the Harpers. Harpers have been doing damage to the Zhents for years by way of infiltration. It is only fair that the Zhents get a chance to do the same with them. The Harpers would have come out the other side as a stronger, more cohesive organization.
Edit: I just had an evil idea. What if it wasn't the Zhents? What if it was Xvim/Bane doing this. Subvert a group known as goody-goodies and use them to spread tyranny through a coordinated "failure" of Harper operations. Someone mentioned earlier about Khelben foreseeing the return of Bane. What if he saw the take over of the Harpers, too. That would certainly have prodded him into making a sister organization and leaving when/like he did. And would necessitate his delaying Bane's return for as long as possible so he can get his counter plans in motion for the Harper takeover. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
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Edited by - TheIriaeban on 23 Mar 2022 15:50:25 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2022 : 16:02:31
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I don't think it was trying to solve a problem with the fanbase at all.
Khelben was concerned about threats the Harpers weren't aware of, and he was working to counter them. He was pursuing a more long-term goal than what the Harpers were doing, and he was willing to be more morally flexible about it than the Harpers. The Harpers and the Moonstars had some overlapping goals, but I think the Moonstars would have let some of the Harper goals slide while pursuing bigger issues.
I think the overall goal with the Harper Schism was to create more role-playing opportunities. The Moonstars were the Harpers with shades of gray, and that would have appealed to folks that saw the Harpers as too goody-goody.
Plus, you get all of the opportunities that competing factions would present, with competition for goals and resources and even agents. It was a wonderful new set of role-playing potentials, unceremoniously kicked to the curb because someone else didn't like it -- the start of a trend that has become all too evident, of late. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2022 : 16:36:59
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quote:
Khelben was concerned about threats the Harpers weren't aware of, and he was working to counter them. He was pursuing a more long-term goal than what the Harpers were doing, and he was willing to be more morally flexible about it than the Harpers. The Harpers and the Moonstars had some overlapping goals, but I think the Moonstars would have let some of the Harper goals slide while pursuing bigger issues.
Well, that's the Watsonian answer. In-universe, it was created because Khelben is a dick and wanted to create his own version of the Outsiders to the Harper's Justice League. He's a crazy control freak and felt he could do better with a bunch of Harpers who answered directly to him versus any sort of council. He also got some gods to back him.
But the "its the fans who saw a problem" is why the AUTHORS decided to do this plot. I.e. A Doylist answer.
quote:
Plus, you get all of the opportunities that competing factions would present, with competition for goals and resources and even agents. It was a wonderful new set of role-playing potentials, unceremoniously kicked to the curb because someone else didn't like it -- the start of a trend that has become all too evident, of late.
Ehhh, I could also see an argument that the existence of the Moonstars undermines the Harpers actually. Because if you want to make it absolutely 100% clear the Harpers are NOT goodie-goodies, are NOT trustworthy, and are duplicitous schemers like Baldur's Gate goes with as well as Thornhold then the Moonstars doesn't make any sense.
It's a schism that relies on a characterization that isn't true.
Basically, for the story to make sense, the Harpers have to be the kind of organization that would object to Khelben's realpolitc. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 23 Mar 2022 16:39:39 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2022 : 17:29:48
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I disagree on both counts.
If it had been done in response to fan complaints, then other things would have been done, too -- like making the Zhents more effective, which has long been a far greater complaint than the Harpers being too good.
And in a setting riddled with factions, I fail to see how having a faction that's similar but not the same somehow undermines another. It's like saying the church of Helm undermines the church of Torm. |
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2022 : 18:14:48
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| I LIKE the idea of the Harpers having a "Black OPs" faction/rival! Though I do think the mainstream Harpers already showed signs going outside-the-law. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2022 : 19:03:26
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quote:
I LIKE the idea of the Harpers having a "Black OPs" faction/rival! Though I do think the mainstream Harpers already showed signs going outside-the-law.
That's a very good point by itself. Aren't the Harpers, by nature, an illegal organization? They're a non-government group of military partistans that are carrying out their own socio-political-religious agenda. Some governments support them, particularly the elves, but they'res a reason that Lawful types throw fits about them and paladins hate harpers. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2022 : 20:35:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
I LIKE the idea of the Harpers having a "Black OPs" faction/rival! Though I do think the mainstream Harpers already showed signs going outside-the-law.
That's a very good point by itself. Aren't the Harpers, by nature, an illegal organization? They're a non-government group of military partistans that are carrying out their own socio-political-religious agenda. Some governments support them, particularly the elves, but they'res a reason that Lawful types throw fits about them and paladins hate harpers.
The issue with paladins and Harpers isn't exclusive to that particular pairing. Paladins have a tendency to dislike anyone who isn't LG, which includes a lot of Harpers and non-Harpers alike. Part of that, though, is the tendency for paladins and other LG types to become Lawful Stupid instead of Lawful Good. |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2022 : 21:08:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
Unfortunately, Steven Schend was not able to further this plotline and it more or less died on the vine.
Given I've been absent from the Realms for almost a decade, may I ask for some more detail on what happened?
The book line ended and Steven was no longer working for WotC. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2022 : 21:09:34
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The book line ended and Steven was no longer working for WotC
I take it the story wasn't done like Song and Swords?
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The issue with paladins and Harpers isn't exclusive to that particular pairing. Paladins have a tendency to dislike anyone who isn't LG, which includes a lot of Harpers and non-Harpers alike. Part of that, though, is the tendency for paladins and other LG types to become Lawful Stupid instead of Lawful Good.
Yeah, I didn't much care for the Harper/Moonstar split because the Harpers were acting more like Paladins. Which is never how they've been characterized. Paladins are people who believe that you should never break the rules and always meet good with good. The Chosen of Mystra and Harpers always seemed like the people who were much more flexible about their ethics.
One of the things Ed Greenwood always beat in his write-ups of the Chosen was they'd ally with evil and manipulate events because they took the long run. Also, that good people didn't always achieve good because ends and means were not really related.
I love this description:
https://www.candlekeep.com/fr_faq.htm#_Toc16090539
Ed Greenwood: Part of my writing goals have been to underscore the following things: "do-gooders" often do more harm than good, for the best of motives (Elaine's also been playing with this one); 'good' to one party is not 'good' to another (the old saying, "for one man to gain freedom, another must lose it"); and the best meddlers are those who can see farthest, not the brute-force-right-now brigade (which is what most PC parties of necessity are, and therefore their punishments/reward are immediate).
One postscript I almost forgot: with Elminster in particular and all of the Chosen, Steven and I (at least) are delving into "how insane do you go from living so long with godly power and gods messing with your mind?" Everything El and the other Chosen do should be read in this light; they're NOT sane. I've been hinting at this for a long time, but you have to catch the hints (like the good/happy endings, this was a Code of Ethics thing, which is why we can't show villains poisoning, or succeeding, or telling you their detailed plans that someone in the real world might copy or claim as inspiration, etc.). |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 23 Mar 2022 21:12:38 |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2022 : 22:25:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
I LIKE the idea of the Harpers having a "Black OPs" faction/rival! Though I do think the mainstream Harpers already showed signs going outside-the-law.
That's a very good point by itself. Aren't the Harpers, by nature, an illegal organization? They're a non-government group of military partistans that are carrying out their own socio-political-religious agenda. Some governments support them, particularly the elves, but they'res a reason that Lawful types throw fits about them and paladins hate harpers.
There are plenty of reasons why established governments or kingdoms might dislike the Harpers - one of the stated goals of the Harpers is to ensure all kingdoms remain small, for example. They help ensure this by toppling thrones when they decide to, among other things, and can (and do sometimes) enforce their ideology by force (of which they frankly have quite a lot if they need to). Most nations, especially strongly lawful ones or strong, centrally-controlled ones, would usually object to a paramilitary organisation of that sort setting up shop in their borders.
In conjunction with this, the Harpers are widely spread across Faerun and plausibly beyond it while wielding a potentially vast intelligence gathering apparatus across the region, even operating in cells to ensure if one is compromised the entire organisation doesn’t topple (akin to a hydra, chop of one head and another grows). It’s not for no reason that some analogies to real life choose to style them as a fantasy version of the CIA, one that operates with minimal oversight from anybody and with occasionally endemic bouts of corruption in their ranks. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2022 : 22:31:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
It seems like Force Grey has replaced the Moonstars as well.
Which is a group that I feel sounds significantly less Realmsian.
They got renamed to the Gray Hands, IIRC. And the group predates the Moonstars.
I don't know that they could be considered a replacement, though, since they were all about Waterdeep, while the Moonstars weren't limited to any one area. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2022 : 23:16:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
It seems like Force Grey has replaced the Moonstars as well.
Which is a group that I feel sounds significantly less Realmsian.
They got renamed to the Gray Hands, IIRC. And the group predates the Moonstars.
I don't know that they could be considered a replacement, though, since they were all about Waterdeep, while the Moonstars weren't limited to any one area.
I stand corrected and I admit my impression of the Moonstars is just, "The Blackstaff's Minions" or, more charitably, "The Blackstaff's Special Ops Team."
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2022 : 03:54:05
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| Am I crazy for remembering that this divide (and resulting confusion and finger pointing) was cooked up underground by some liches or cult of the dragon cell? It smells like some kind of smear campaign against Khelben and that the harpers weren't taking power, but being taken. Maybe had the harper-schism divided their resources and personnel differently then things wound have worked out in favor of a puppet-harper faction that's been radicalized to "kill the superhero" to join the narrative. Which Batman movie has the villain threaten to turn the public, and the police, against him? |
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T_P_T |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2022 : 05:22:20
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quote:
originally posted by PattPlays
Am I crazy for remembering that this divide (and resulting confusion and finger pointing) was cooked up underground by some liches or cult of the dragon cell? It smells like some kind of smear campaign against Khelben and that the harpers weren't taking power, but being taken. Maybe had the harper-schism divided their resources and personnel differently then things wound have worked out in favor of a puppet-harper faction that's been radicalized to "kill the superhero" to join the narrative. Which Batman movie has the villain threaten to turn the public, and the police, against him?
I think it felt like a ridiculous divide over nothing anyway since Khelben managed to destroy a scepter that had the potential to utterly unmake Faerun as we know it (The Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings able to permanently bar gods from exerting their influence in the Realm) as well as one of the Bane Liches.
The fact Fzoul Chembyrl also made it a point to not expand Eastward and only Westward (which was in the direction of Thay and the Simbul so good luck with that) was more a bonus for Waterdeep than anyone else.
There's no real downside here to getting evil to fight evil.
Except of course if you are very LAWFUL about these things, which the Harpers never have been. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 07 Apr 2022 05:23:00 |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2022 : 18:44:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I think it felt like a ridiculous divide over nothing anyway ...
I was not over nothing, it was someone inside the Harpers finally exploding when confronted with the attitude of (some) of the Chosens of Mystra's of "we do whatever the f*** we want because we can, without explaining anything to anyone because OF COURSE we are the best and brightest, bow to us!"
Khelben was the main proponent of this attitude, Elminster and the Symbul (but she wasn't into the Harpers) came as close seconds. Laeral and Alustriel probably did the same BUT using a velvet glove and much diplomacy (so they could get away with it) while the other sisters appeared much more down-to-earth and relatable.
So it became a problem of accountability (for Khelben) and hypocrisy (for the entire organisation). Why do the Harpers butt heads with Vangerdahast (another control freak) but then allow Khelben to do the same things with their name on it? What about "policing your own" and all that bs mafia-like vaunted Code?
Mind you, I'm not saying Khelben is evil, what I'm saying is that his actions went directly at odds with the ethos and the style of the Harpers (as they are propaganded) so either the Harpers changed tune or he got out of them. For the sake of expediency and in the face of the mounting "inquisition" he choose the second option.
I really liked the shake-up, the only bit I disliked (very minor) was Sylune's ghost destroying Bran's pin, that struck me as just another "I'm a Chosen I do the f*** that I want" moment. Unless there was something more sinister in the "inquisition", beside "normal people" being fed up with the double standards that were evidently appearing in the organisation. Which leads me to:
quote:
originally posted by PattPlays
Am I crazy for remembering that this divide (and resulting confusion and finger pointing) was cooked up underground by some liches or cult of the dragon cell?
I don't think there was anything canon that said the Harpers of Twilight Hall were manipulated. But I personally always found the "disease" of Lady Cylyria Dragonbreast quite odd. So in my games I had the Harpers unknowingly get the attention of Shoon VII by recruiting the young and impressionable Cowled Wizard apprentice Zallanora Argentresses and it was Shoon VII setting the Harpers up: taking over Cylyria, hiding behind her "comatose state" to escape the scrutiny of the Chosens and fueling Bran's fire until the situation got out of control. This way, the Harpers on the Heartlands are completely absorbed with their current actions and dealing with the fallout of the schism (with the ongoing witch hunt) and can't pay attention to what Shoon VII was doing south of the Cloud Peaks. |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2022 : 19:08:33
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I pulled out my copy of CLOAK AND DAGGER and re-reread it for this thread. One of the things that's clear is the authors are 100% on the side of Khelben throughout this. The situation is told in a ridiculously biased and one-sided direction with the Chosen all on Khelben's side, Bran's side called a bunch of "witch hunters" looking for nonexistent treason, and the Moonstars meant to be a sexier more awesome version of the Harpers.
Basically the good guy version of the Shadovar in the sense that they're trying WAY TOO HARD to sell these guys to us. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2022 : 02:44:49
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| I love all of that Dezmer. I wiki'd those terms and found the name Obslin Minstrelwish, who seems to be an enabler. It has been over a year since I last had Cloak & Dagger to flip through- it's an amazing book and one of the few places to find info on the mysterious outskirts of Westgate. I was looking through it to see if some certain legendary hills would be shown on the city map- they weren't. That map of criminal organization locations and spheres of influence was incredible, though. Just like the famous map of Dragon territory of the north. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
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T_P_T |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2022 : 03:34:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I think it felt like a ridiculous divide over nothing anyway ...
I was not over nothing, it was someone inside the Harpers finally exploding when confronted with the attitude of (some) of the Chosens of Mystra's of "we do whatever the f*** we want because we can, without explaining anything to anyone because OF COURSE we are the best and brightest, bow to us!"
Khelben was the main proponent of this attitude, Elminster and the Symbul (but she wasn't into the Harpers) came as close seconds. Laeral and Alustriel probably did the same BUT using a velvet glove and much diplomacy (so they could get away with it) while the other sisters appeared much more down-to-earth and relatable.
So it became a problem of accountability (for Khelben) and hypocrisy (for the entire organisation). Why do the Harpers butt heads with Vangerdahast (another control freak) but then allow Khelben to do the same things with their name on it? What about "policing your own" and all that bs mafia-like vaunted Code?
Mind you, I'm not saying Khelben is evil, what I'm saying is that his actions went directly at odds with the ethos and the style of the Harpers (as they are propaganded) so either the Harpers changed tune or he got out of them. For the sake of expediency and in the face of the mounting "inquisition" he choose the second option.
That's a very very interesting take. Not saying its wrong mind you. I definitely could see some in the harpers getting fed up with the Chosen having an attitude (at least SOME). Some might have very much questioned following the chosen after Laeral was affected by the Crown of Horns as well. So, Laeral and Khelben may have been "on the outs" of the organization, while people still favored other chosen like Storm (I mean, who gets mad at someone that chops wood in the nude). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2022 : 03:49:32
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DM's Guild in about eight months: The Secret History of the Harpstar Wars: A module where you play as infuriated Harper radicals who get a copy of the published Realmslore from earth, and assume that even other dimensions are under the propaganda of the Blackstaff.
A suicide mission to take back the unity of the harpers by using Earth documents to infiltrate the Moonstars and destroy them. This mission, inevitably, fails horribly. Probably because of a Shadowstaff as a group patron who tries not to laugh as they lead the party on this "totally real chance to *snicker* overthrow the Blackstaff".
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Edited by - PattPlays on 08 Apr 2022 03:59:51 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2022 : 04:16:28
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quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
DM's Guild in about eight months: The Secret History of the Harpstar Wars: A module where you play as infuriated Harper radicals who get a copy of the published Realmslore from earth, and assume that even other dimensions are under the propaganda of the Blackstaff.
A suicide mission to take back the unity of the harpers by using Earth documents to infiltrate the Moonstars and destroy them. This mission, inevitably, fails horribly. Probably because of a Shadowstaff as a group patron who tries not to laugh as they lead the party on this "totally real chance to *snicker* overthrow the Blackstaff".
-checking-
I actually do think it's kind of funny how history took the whole Moonstar concept. The book did its absolute best to promote them as the "best of the best" and more of a Khelben-based group of badasses but 3rd Edition more or less ignored them as a relevant force because, of course, WOTC's publishers assumed the Harpers were much more iconic and had no interest in promoting the johnny come latelys.
The Shadovar and 4th Edition business also meant that it absolutely SUCKED to be Chosen of Mystra or their minions for the next century. Fzoul also moved from being the Chosen of Xvim to the Chosen of BANE and so his rise to power actually coincided with the resurrection of the Tyrant God. Very possibly because Fzoul eliminated all of his rivals thanks to Khelben helping him.
Also, with Khelben dead, the Moonstars don't really have any actual rules or history to fall back on.
So, really, the Harpers ended up winning out the test of time on that. No, it turns out the Chosen AREN'T the central most important part of Those Who Harp. The Justice League WILL continue without Batman. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Moonstars vs. Harpers
