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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Mar 2022 : 04:06:52
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Has anyone used the concept from 2e of elixirs from Volos Guide to All Things Magical? If you did, did it unbalance you’re game? Do you have any thoughts on making them available for 5e?
If you don’t know what they are, it was really a unique and wonderful idea but likely needs a lot of playtesting to be balanced for fifth.
The gist is you gather ultra rare ingredients to create a magical elixir and then drink it to your bane or benefit depending on the die role. You might gain permanent dark vision for example, or lose two points of Charisma. It’s all in the roll like the Deck of Many Things. If you get a chance, google the Great Elixir because that one is awesome.
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Edited by - Seethyr on 09 Mar 2022 04:07:50
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Thuumhammer
Acolyte
Canada
19 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2022 : 04:51:00
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| Sounds fun, Volo's Guide to All Things Magical is next on my acquisitions list. |
Currently living in a version of 1372DR that operates under 5e mechanics. Strange indeed! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2022 : 04:52:56
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An "elixir" is basically a "superpotion".
More potent effect. Or permanent effect. Often an effect which is not readily accomplished through typical magics.
2E potion rules were oddball. On one end of the spectrum, they were inherited from 1E - where potions of superheroism were apparently "commonplace" enough to be required components for certain spells - where every well-equipped adventurer was expected to have a big sack full of healing potions. On the other end of the spectrum, potions (of the magical variety) were rare and exotic things which took great time and effort and resources (along with rare and exotic ingredients) to manufacture - precious things few NPCs would possess in abundance or be willing to part with cheaply.
2E inherited "potion miscibility" rules from 1E. Not great odds, overall, but characters willing (or desperate) enough to gamble with potion gulping might always get lucky or exceptionally lucky and roll something surprisingly powerful. Then again, they might explode.
The 2E DMG (and PHB and other books) made a big deal out of the Philosopher's Stone, a rare and legendary alchemical ingredient with entirely vague and unimpressive properties (at least when compared vs the properties of most other magical items and potions).
FR12 Anauroch described Bedine "lifewater" which was essentially a potion with powerful healing (and even resurrection) effects.
Tome of Magic had some alchemical items which could "double" the quantity or quality of potions.
Volo did have some interesting ideas about magical potions. But not as interesting as Volo's ideas of about everything else magical.
2E psionicists could "imbue" potions as "receptacles" (to refresh their PSPs, to cast a psionic power, or to affect the psyche/mind/aura of the drinker). At least within Dark Sun rules.
Complete Wizards' Handbook described a Witch kit with some unique potion-centric advantages.
Planescape sometimes mentioned unique and interesting potions (in NPC writeups) which included exotic stuff from various planes. And which would have different effects on various planes. Though these were basically more about soft flavour and fluff than about hard crunchy rules.
3E turned potions into common, cheap, basic provisions you stock up before leaving town. As if you were a character in a video game who needs to fill up slots in your the hotkey potion belt. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 09 Mar 2022 05:04:33 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2022 : 11:02:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
3E turned potions into common, cheap, basic provisions you stock up before leaving town. As if you were a character in a video game who needs to fill up slots in your the hotkey potion belt.
3E did that with magic, in general. I understand the overall goal of making a simplified set of rules for magic items, but I feel like they went too far and basically made a nearly industrial approach to them. Between that and stripping caster names from previously-named spells, I felt like 3E stripped the magic from in-game magic. It's one of the few complaints I have about that ruleset, which I otherwise quite liked. |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2022 : 11:52:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
3E turned potions into common, cheap, basic provisions you stock up before leaving town. As if you were a character in a video game who needs to fill up slots in your the hotkey potion belt.
3E did that with magic, in general. I understand the overall goal of making a simplified set of rules for magic items, but I feel like they went too far and basically made a nearly industrial approach to them. Between that and stripping caster names from previously-named spells, I felt like 3E stripped the magic from in-game magic. It's one of the few complaints I have about that ruleset, which I otherwise quite liked.
For this very reason almost all my magic items are named. +1 shields are “Bertram’s Defender” etc |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2022 : 14:32:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
2E inherited "potion miscibility" rules from 1E. Not great odds, overall, but characters willing (or desperate) enough to gamble with potion gulping might always get lucky or exceptionally lucky and roll something surprisingly powerful. Then again, they might explode.
This was actually used in a NPC background. As a kid (8 yo), he found his dad's potion stash (dad was a retired adventurer). Not knowing any better he drank one. He liked what it did and grabbed another one and drank it down. He got the lucky roll (when anyone asked, he said it was "Tymora's gift") but the side affects were quite bad and ended up being the reason he went adventuring. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2022 : 15:09:55
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
2E inherited "potion miscibility" rules from 1E. Not great odds, overall, but characters willing (or desperate) enough to gamble with potion gulping might always get lucky or exceptionally lucky and roll something surprisingly powerful. Then again, they might explode.
This was actually used in a NPC background. As a kid (8 yo), he found his dad's potion stash (dad was a retired adventurer). Not knowing any better he drank one. He liked what it did and grabbed another one and drank it down. He got the lucky roll (when anyone asked, he said it was "Tymora's gift") but the side affects were quite bad and ended up being the reason he went adventuring.
Always liked those rules myself, but since I've never DM'ed, I've never used them -- but if I was a DM, I would make a point of having them handy!
I've thought about using the beneficial result as a character background, but I'm loath to use that kind of random chance thing in a background. I've rarely come up with a "by sheer coincidence" element that I actually liked *and* that I didn't feel was just too convenient. |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2022 : 15:56:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
2E inherited "potion miscibility" rules from 1E. Not great odds, overall, but characters willing (or desperate) enough to gamble with potion gulping might always get lucky or exceptionally lucky and roll something surprisingly powerful. Then again, they might explode.
This was actually used in a NPC background. As a kid (8 yo), he found his dad's potion stash (dad was a retired adventurer). Not knowing any better he drank one. He liked what it did and grabbed another one and drank it down. He got the lucky roll (when anyone asked, he said it was "Tymora's gift") but the side affects were quite bad and ended up being the reason he went adventuring.
Always liked those rules myself, but since I've never DM'ed, I've never used them -- but if I was a DM, I would make a point of having them handy!
I've thought about using the beneficial result as a character background, but I'm loath to use that kind of random chance thing in a background. I've rarely come up with a "by sheer coincidence" element that I actually liked *and* that I didn't feel was just too convenient.
Ed has already spoken about some people just randomly having some minor magic ability, no explanation needed. Taking the potion path, I was able to use background story to explain that "gift" and allow side affects that had a definite affect on the character's arc and allowed for some interesting interactions. That also allowed the character to stand out and not be generic fighter #2. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2022 : 16:59:47
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| Hmmm, THAT is an interesting idea (i.e. my magic was awakened because as a child I drank several potions quickly) |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2022 : 17:18:57
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| I once drank the magical potions my parents put in the cupboard and my roll must’ve gotten me the poisoned condition for a full ten hours or so. No permanent magical abilities manifesting just yet. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3743 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2022 : 20:19:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
For this very reason almost all my magic items are named. +1 shields are “Bertram’s Defender” etc
-That was a house rule in the games that "my group" played. All magical items, no matter how stupid and piddly, needed to be named. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2022 : 03:28:05
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Ed has already spoken about some people just randomly having some minor magic ability, no explanation needed. Taking the potion path, I was able to use background story to explain that "gift" and allow side affects that had a definite affect on the character's arc and allowed for some interesting interactions. That also allowed the character to stand out and not be generic fighter #2.
Oh, I know about Ed's wild talents. And I don't disagree with having something unique about a character. It's just that I, personally, am reluctant to use coincidence in a backstory. It's a personal thing. As long as your backstory doesn't get as ridiculous as Madcoil's, from Elfquest, I'm not going to say anything. To each his own, and all that. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2022 : 04:32:32
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So the obvious question is whether potion (im)miscibility rules apply to elixirs.
Would positive results amplify the elixir effects? Make them even more epic or long-lasting?
Would negative results amplify the explosion?
Could elixirs become poisons or delusions even more powerful than usual?
Would the "possibly undesirable side-effects" be even more problematic than usual?
Or do elixirs always work as they're supposed to, above the normal rules, immune to such paltry mixing considerations?
I would almost argue that an elixir is to mere potions as an artifact is to mere magical items. Each one unique and legendary, with powers awesome and terrible, not to be risked by those lacking in greatly heroic accomplishments and abilities. |
[/Ayrik] |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2022 : 09:42:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Has anyone used the concept from 2e of elixirs from Volos Guide to All Things Magical? If you did, did it unbalance you’re game? Do you have any thoughts on making them available for 5e?
If you don’t know what they are, it was really a unique and wonderful idea but likely needs a lot of playtesting to be balanced for fifth.
The gist is you gather ultra rare ingredients to create a magical elixir and then drink it to your bane or benefit depending on the die role. You might gain permanent dark vision for example, or lose two points of Charisma. It’s all in the roll like the Deck of Many Things. If you get a chance, google the Great Elixir because that one is awesome.
No one pays attention to what I do.
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/177092/Bazaar-of-the-Bizarre--Enchanting-Elixirs
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2022 : 02:11:55
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Has anyone used the concept from 2e of elixirs from Volos Guide to All Things Magical? If you did, did it unbalance you’re game? Do you have any thoughts on making them available for 5e?
If you don’t know what they are, it was really a unique and wonderful idea but likely needs a lot of playtesting to be balanced for fifth.
The gist is you gather ultra rare ingredients to create a magical elixir and then drink it to your bane or benefit depending on the die role. You might gain permanent dark vision for example, or lose two points of Charisma. It’s all in the roll like the Deck of Many Things. If you get a chance, google the Great Elixir because that one is awesome.
No one pays attention to what I do.
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/177092/Bazaar-of-the-Bizarre--Enchanting-Elixirs
-- George Krashos
That's right up my alley, thank you! I was looking for exactly this. |
Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!
The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2022 : 04:39:56
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Has anyone used the concept from 2e of elixirs from Volos Guide to All Things Magical? If you did, did it unbalance you’re game? Do you have any thoughts on making them available for 5e?
If you don’t know what they are, it was really a unique and wonderful idea but likely needs a lot of playtesting to be balanced for fifth.
The gist is you gather ultra rare ingredients to create a magical elixir and then drink it to your bane or benefit depending on the die role. You might gain permanent dark vision for example, or lose two points of Charisma. It’s all in the roll like the Deck of Many Things. If you get a chance, google the Great Elixir because that one is awesome.
No one pays attention to what I do.
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/177092/Bazaar-of-the-Bizarre--Enchanting-Elixirs
-- George Krashos
To the contrary! We were just so blown away by how awesome it was that we simply could not retain the memory of such awesomeness!
(This is my official excuse, and I will stick to it until I come up with a better one.) |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2022 : 08:17:22
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And people rave about the popularity of the Forgotten Realms and clamour for releases and Realmslore ....  
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Thuumhammer
Acolyte
Canada
19 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2022 : 18:28:46
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Has anyone used the concept from 2e of elixirs from Volos Guide to All Things Magical? If you did, did it unbalance you’re game? Do you have any thoughts on making them available for 5e?
If you don’t know what they are, it was really a unique and wonderful idea but likely needs a lot of playtesting to be balanced for fifth.
The gist is you gather ultra rare ingredients to create a magical elixir and then drink it to your bane or benefit depending on the die role. You might gain permanent dark vision for example, or lose two points of Charisma. It’s all in the roll like the Deck of Many Things. If you get a chance, google the Great Elixir because that one is awesome.
No one pays attention to what I do.
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/177092/Bazaar-of-the-Bizarre--Enchanting-Elixirs
-- George Krashos
Just took a look and this is great stuff George. One of my PC's is vying to be one of Halaster's apprentices (a truly terrible idea) and making/consuming Halaster's Quaff might be one of the many steps on that accursed journey. |
Currently living in a version of 1372DR that operates under 5e mechanics. Strange indeed! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2022 : 06:11:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Thuumhammer
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Has anyone used the concept from 2e of elixirs from Volos Guide to All Things Magical? If you did, did it unbalance you’re game? Do you have any thoughts on making them available for 5e?
If you don’t know what they are, it was really a unique and wonderful idea but likely needs a lot of playtesting to be balanced for fifth.
The gist is you gather ultra rare ingredients to create a magical elixir and then drink it to your bane or benefit depending on the die role. You might gain permanent dark vision for example, or lose two points of Charisma. It’s all in the roll like the Deck of Many Things. If you get a chance, google the Great Elixir because that one is awesome.
No one pays attention to what I do.
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/177092/Bazaar-of-the-Bizarre--Enchanting-Elixirs
-- George Krashos
Just took a look and this is great stuff George. One of my PC's is vying to be one of Halaster's apprentices (a truly terrible idea) and making/consuming Halaster's Quaff might be one of the many steps on that accursed journey.
I'm glad it's helpful. Always loved that 2E lore in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2022 : 17:25:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
I once drank the magical potions my parents put in the cupboard and my roll must’ve gotten me the poisoned condition for a full ten hours or so. No permanent magical abilities manifesting just yet.
I had a similar situation. Mine preceded the poisoned condition with a confusion and finally sleep effect. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2022 : 18:07:46
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
I once drank the magical potions my parents put in the cupboard and my roll must’ve gotten me the poisoned condition for a full ten hours or so. No permanent magical abilities manifesting just yet.
I had a similar situation. Mine preceded the poisoned condition with a confusion and finally sleep effect.
...and no beneficial side effects? We are terrible rollers. |
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The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2022 : 20:37:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
I once drank the magical potions my parents put in the cupboard and my roll must’ve gotten me the poisoned condition for a full ten hours or so. No permanent magical abilities manifesting just yet.
I had a similar situation. Mine preceded the poisoned condition with a confusion and finally sleep effect.
...and no beneficial side effects? We are terrible rollers.
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2022 : 06:14:41
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Our little joke about alcoholic beverages before made me do some homebrewing. I haven’t figured out the ingredients yet other than this will include jhuild but I’ll edit once I get a good list together.
———
Darersak’s Draught
Darersak Stoneshield of the Stoneshield Clan of Earthfast is wildly believed to have been the greatest brewmaster to have lived for a thousand thousand years. Though an obvious exaggeration, these are the rumors spoken of as far as Mithral Hall, Citadel Adbar and even across the Sea of Swords among the desert dwarves of the Sands of Itzcala. Barrels of his ales can fetch prices in the thousands of gold pieces in distant dwarven holds and even the greediest of dwarven misers would choose a cache of such such beverages over a dragon’s hoard.
Darersak was no traditionalist however, and his experimentation with flavor and ingredients was only accepted due to his impeccable reputation. There was never any danger of accidental poisoning when imbibing even his strangest concoctions because the dwarf brewer tested all of them himself first.
Darersak’s Draught was created in the dwarf’s twilight years only shortly before his passing to the Halls of Moradin. His half human son and apprentice Fiddomi absconded with the recipe under his father’s dying wish lest the formula be used haphazardly and lead another dwarf to an undeserved death. Worse yet, an imbiber might never again be able to partake in the joys of consuming alcohol. This is the fate suffered by Darersak himself who is believed to have died from heartbreak. Fiddomi could not destroy his father’s life work however, despite the dangers it represented.
Fiddomi is believed to have sailed across the sea to join the desert dwarves of Maztica but it is unknown if his ship, the Arrow Clam, ever made it to shore.
The draught has the same smell and taste as normal ale, the only indication that the brew is special in any way is the reddish hue given to the frothy “head” a pour produces. Most certainly this is a natural byproduct of its jhuild ingredient.
In order to activate the draught, it must be “chugged” in a single quaff. This is harder than it sounds, requiring a successful DC 12 Constitution check just to do so successfully. It is rumored that giving cheers to the Morndinsamman increases the chances of a beneficial effect but there is no truth to this.
When drunk, your Wisdom is temporarily lowered by 1 point until you take a long rest and it is always accompanied by a splitting headache whose onset is an hour after imbibing.
Roll a percentage die for the following additional effects.
1-5 The elixir fails and you die.
6-30 The elixir fails and you gain the poisoned condition for a full 24 hours. Your ability to consume alcoholic beverages is also permanently taken from you. From that day forward, anytime you drink alcohol you gain the same poisoned condition for 1 hour per drink.
31-70 The elixir fails and you are burdened with a terrible hangover until you take a long rest (disadvantage on skill checks, attacks rolls and defense until such time as the hangover ends). The hangover can not be cured with any magic weaker than a wish spell.
71-80 You gain the benefit of advantage to all Constitution saves for 2d8 days.
81-90 You gain a permanent resistance to poison.
91-95 Your Constitution increases by 1d4-1 points.
96-100 You permanently gain the ability to regenerate 5 hit points at the start of each of your turns.
If the elixir fails to produce a permanent beneficial effect, you may attempt to drink additional draughts siffering the loss in Wisdom each time (you die if you reach 0 Wisdom). Each additional drink adds 1d4 to the next roll, but you cannot gain its benefit until you have gained a level. In addition, if you drink additional draughts while you have a hangover incurred by the first draught, you instead subtract 1d4.
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Edited by - Seethyr on 15 Mar 2022 20:07:01 |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2022 : 14:04:50
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Are there additional side effects if you drink Darersak's Draught a second or even third time? This assumes all percentile rolls are 6 or higher; or the drinker was raised after an unfortunate roll of 1-5.
I'd be curious about the power of Darersak's holy water. Would it do double damage against undead and fiends? |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2022 : 19:59:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
Are there additional side effects if you drink Darersak's Draught a second or even third time? This assumes all percentile rolls are 6 or higher; or the drinker was raised after an unfortunate roll of 1-5.
I'd be curious about the power of Darersak's holy water. Would it do double damage against undead and fiends?
Edited to reflect this. I like the idea of having some effect when combined with holy water. If good old Darersak was still alive I’m sure he’d love to give that a go on some undead. Maybe his half human son (who happens to have become a cleric of Moradin) can be convinced to give it a go. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2429 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2022 : 16:45:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
If you don�t know what they are, it was really a unique and wonderful idea
Strangely, yes. Though it can be mostly summarized in 3 words: permanent alchemical augmentation. The random tables for failures and full/partial success spice it up, of course.
quote:
but likely needs a lot of playtesting to be balanced for fifth.
Why?
As a "big picture" note, looks like there are several possible origins for SLA in Realms.
Innate (planetouched). Divine gift, as with the "Touched" wizards (from Magister, IIRC?). And alchemical (elixir).
In light of which d20 giving SLA via PrC and feats is not that off.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I understand the overall goal of making a simplified set of rules for magic items, but I feel like they went too far and basically made a nearly industrial approach to them.
It looks like you mix up 3 different things.
1. Unified rules.
What flaming sword does?
2. General item/loot balance.
d20 is obviously built for "generic MMO" play style through and through. This includes expectation that PCs will have +1/+2/... weapons at certain levels - it's implicitly built into CR, for one (via DR).
3. In-universe treatment.
Do you have name & lore for all shortswords +1? Do you have shortswords +1 sold in shops? Do you even have such thing as shortsword +1 with no other special properties? It's mostly up to designer/DM.
Obviously, (3) can depend on (2) strongly, but neither is necessarily affected by (1), as long as rules support whatever-it-is-you-want-to-do at all. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2429 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2022 : 11:50:26
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Oh, there was also a permanent alchemic augmentation process hidden in the text:
quote:
Angelar's skin is associated in legend with the sorcerer Angelar, who became a wereshark (qv...) after eating this powdered coral, which had been mixed
with sea water, and then receiving the cast spells polymorph self, water breathing, and Angelar's own wizard version of the priest free action spell.
Angelar survived the transformation, emerging as a long-lived human who has complete control over his were-transformations into shark form; presumably, other wizards or individuals
able to hire others to cast the necessary spells can, too.
- VGatM, p.36
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People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Topic |
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Elixirs
