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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Dec 2021 : 17:02:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Not at all likely. Why waste time and effort changing content of something that only generates a trickle of income?
Never underestimate managerials. They'll waste time screwing up already-finished work if you give them enough money and scapegoats to spend. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2021 : 17:32:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
How likely is it that WOTC will recolor and/or remove certain pieces featured in old FR/D&D supplements?
https://i.imgur.com/wjvVclq.png
Not at all likely. Why waste time and effort changing content of something that only generates a trickle of income?
I can't answer the "why", but after witnessing other companies commit to courses of action that were economically counterproductive, I wouldn't automatically rule out any possibility. Besides which, someone up the ladder could throw an intern a few bucks and have them speed-read/skim through PDFs while flagging any art deemed objectionable by current business standards. Leaving huge gaps in classic books would be a manifestly stupid decision, but...
Anyhow, I truly hope nothing is altered.
quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
How likely is it that WOTC will recolor and/or remove certain pieces featured in old FR/D&D supplements?
https://i.imgur.com/wjvVclq.png
They're more likely to stop selling them (which I think is likely at some point in the near future). They've already slapped a disclaimer on all their old products:
"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end."
But you know this disclaimer won't be good enough in a few years. We're currently living through a purity spiral, which demands more and more zealotry with each passing year. It will not end well.
Ah. I heard something about that a while back, but I never actually looked into what - precisely - it entailed; by that point, I was through purchasing digital old school material. Here's to hoping that's the worst of their appeasements  . |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
216 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2021 : 18:34:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertAs for ceasing sales of prior edition materials, I think it highly unlikely. The disclaimer that some already rail against covers any issues there, and ending those sales would end a revenue stream for them.
You could say the same about the Simpsons or Monty Python, two highly lucrative properties that have had episodes pulled from circulation due to perceived insensitivities. In other words, revenue isn't the only factor in these decisions; there's also PR. Which is why it wouldn't surprise me if Wizards started pulling old products from online stores. Why would it surprise me when so many other corporations are already doing the same thing? |
Edited by - HighOne on 18 Dec 2021 18:59:54 |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 00:37:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Well, that was the actual Forgotten Realms lore, though maybe you were sarcastic and I didn't detect it.
What they're saying is that the drow always liked caves, and some of them decided to follow Lolth, though only a minority. No Corellon involved here.
Partly I was being sarcastic...
But I'm legit confused now about what is "Real" for the Forgotten Realms regarding Drow.
Are all Drow still suffering the curse of the Elven High God still or no?
No, no curse apparently. Maybe for the better (even in the original lore, I would have much preferred that the drow were simply forcefully driven underground by the remaining elven nations after losing the Crown Wars).
My favorite Underdark Villains...gone.
So much to say that I can't/shouldn't.
Oh well...adios |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 00:45:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Well, that was the actual Forgotten Realms lore, though maybe you were sarcastic and I didn't detect it.
What they're saying is that the drow always liked caves, and some of them decided to follow Lolth, though only a minority. No Corellon involved here.
Partly I was being sarcastic...
But I'm legit confused now about what is "Real" for the Forgotten Realms regarding Drow.
Are all Drow still suffering the curse of the Elven High God still or no?
No, no curse apparently. Maybe for the better (even in the original lore, I would have much preferred that the drow were simply forcefully driven underground by the remaining elven nations after losing the Crown Wars).
My favorite Underdark Villains...gone.
So much to say that I can't/shouldn't.
Oh well...adios
Dalor, you'll always have AD&D through D&D 4e. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 01:42:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
So much to say that I can't/shouldn't.
Oh well...adios
We all walk away from Wizbro and their "canon", eventually.
But I don't think it matters much to WotC. They're done with us, we're not the "market group" they target anymore.
The detail they seem to overlook is that we played our D&D with friends, with family, with our children, with their friends. All of those people who enjoyed the game - the ones who are now the targeted "market group" - who are increasingly unimpressed what Wizbro keeps on doing to their fun. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 19 Dec 2021 01:44:18 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 01:47:27
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quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertAs for ceasing sales of prior edition materials, I think it highly unlikely. The disclaimer that some already rail against covers any issues there, and ending those sales would end a revenue stream for them.
You could say the same about the Simpsons or Monty Python, two highly lucrative properties that have had episodes pulled from circulation due to perceived insensitivities. In other words, revenue isn't the only factor in these decisions; there's also PR. Which is why it wouldn't surprise me if Wizards started pulling old products from online stores. Why would it surprise me when so many other corporations are already doing the same thing?
I call BS on that. Do you have Disney+? They have everything on there (except for Song of the South, that will NEVER see the light of day). They slap on a content advisory:
"This program includes negative depictions and/or mistreatment of people or cultures. These stereotypes were wrong then and are wrong now. Rather than remove this content, we want to acknowledge its harmful impact, learn from it and spark conversation to create a more inclusive future together."
In other words, it's wrong, we know it's wrong, you're wrong for believing it, but we like money and still feel we can educate you on how wrong you are and make a buck. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 01:58:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
(except for Song of the South, that will NEVER see the light of day)
Gone with the Wind is - essentially - a love letter to a rose-tinted view of the Confederacy, but it is still in circulation/being sold. How very bizarre... |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 02:01:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertAs for ceasing sales of prior edition materials, I think it highly unlikely. The disclaimer that some already rail against covers any issues there, and ending those sales would end a revenue stream for them.
You could say the same about the Simpsons or Monty Python, two highly lucrative properties that have had episodes pulled from circulation due to perceived insensitivities. In other words, revenue isn't the only factor in these decisions; there's also PR. Which is why it wouldn't surprise me if Wizards started pulling old products from online stores. Why would it surprise me when so many other corporations are already doing the same thing?
I call BS on that. Do you have Disney+? They have everything on there (except for Song of the South, that will NEVER see the light of day). They slap on a content advisory:
"This program includes negative depictions and/or mistreatment of people or cultures. These stereotypes were wrong then and are wrong now. Rather than remove this content, we want to acknowledge its harmful impact, learn from it and spark conversation to create a more inclusive future together."
In other words, it's wrong, we know it's wrong, you're wrong for believing it, but we like money and still feel we can educate you on how wrong you are and make a buck.
Just love when people tell other people they're "wrong" for simply enjoying stories that aren't much different than a lot of things that I see on tv today that I would proclaim as so much worse. How about we let people use their freedom to decide for themselves what's "wrong" and not worry about trying to constantly proselytize to them. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 03:09:50
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All I can say is: this is why we should leave monsters as monsters.
Monsters are meant to be evil, vile and blah blah blah...not played as Player Characters!
As soon as someone starts wanting to BE something, that something has to become "Good" somehow.
barf
EDIT: Gary warned the WORLD it would happen in the DMG...nobody freaking listened and now here we are! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 19 Dec 2021 03:10:44 |
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
216 Posts |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 04:44:02
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Final word, since you've brought up the only episode pulled from circulation. Yes, pulled by the showrunner, Albert Brooks since it had a cameo by Michael Jackson. He pulled it shortly after Leaving Neverland came out and did not want the episode to air and thus generate royalties for Michael.
It was NOT pulled due to political correctness, but because Albert Brooks felt that offering any support to Michael was wrong.
In response to the freedom to watch or play what you want? You can do that, anytime. The producers are just now realizing that by putting stereotypes in their product is bad business these days, any don't want to make money off people that would purchase material like that. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2021 : 06:20:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
All I can say is: this is why we should leave monsters as monsters.
Monsters are meant to be evil, vile and blah blah blah...not played as Player Characters!
As soon as someone starts wanting to BE something, that something has to become "Good" somehow.
barf
EDIT: Gary warned the WORLD it would happen in the DMG...nobody freaking listened and now here we are!
Along similar lines, connecting (or attempting to connect) monsters to real-world human cultures wasn't the best of ideas. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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New errata to the drow and other books
