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prototype00
Acolyte
48 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Dec 2021 : 11:30:39
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So I recall a topic I had here in this very forum in the past about the nature of male arcane traditions/restrictions in Rashemen:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21941
Where I benefited greatly from the collective knowledge of the forum (special shout outs to Sleyvas for his insight).
Pondering the ramifications of some of the Vremyonni as potential successors to the Raumathmari battlemage traditions, focusing on iron implements of war, I wonder if one possible expression of this (apart from the Eldritch Knight of course) would be the Artificer (flavored not so much as "clockwork creations" but more the "Inherent magic of tools").
How (if appropriate) would the Artificer fit into the tradition (or would it not, thats completely understandable as well)?
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Edited by - prototype00 on 11 Dec 2021 14:54:32
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2021 : 13:03:33
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First off, I wrote all the below before I even saw the shout out... and I must say thank you!
That is a good question, and I feel like the one big thing with both the witches and the vremyonni that people developing rules for them often fall into the trap of, is that they design based on the idea that they'll be a certain class. I myself have fallen into this trap to a degree, in that I made a wizard's arcane tradition for vremyonni. However, I also made a background called vremyonni apprentice, which allowed for the character to be either a sorcerer or a wizard (and I also made a Raumathari Battlemage variant feat for fighter(eldritch knight) multiclassing with wizard, that was required to choose the wizard's arcane tradition. I think this background would work well for a vremyonni artificer. It's from my complete red book of spell strategy up on DM's Guild (which was an initial work I made in the year following the release of 5e.... with the passage of time, some of it could use some sprucing up, which I'm working on as I develop NPC's in the last few months). Just for discussions sake, I'm going to post that one background here (bear in mind its power level to the recently released backgrounds in Strixhaven). Also, since I've rewritten the rules for multiclassing feats that I had in that product, for grins I'll post those too. Finally, I'll post the arcane tradition too. I'll do each as separate posts so we can tear apart each separately without it getting convoluted. If someone isn't familiar with 5e rules, I do ask that they not make comments disparaging the way the rules work (and I only say that because its happened and then they throw it up as a defense).
As an add to this, I will say, I also recently made some artificer subclass options on DM's guild for hornsculptors, plumaweavers, and hishnashapers (the first my own creation). In doing that, I explored the class more a bit, and I very much consider artificers a melee type class...... so for those who want SOME spellcasting, but also melee.... as opposed to the pure caster that is a wizard.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2021 : 13:05:49
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BACKGROUND FIRST
Vremyonni Apprentice
The Wychlaran of Rashemen check all children, male and female, for magical
capability. Those found capable are taken away. Some males do pursue a priestly or
druidic goal, but most are instead encouraged to choose the path of a ranger or paladin
taking the Oath of the Ancients in service to Khelliara. However, in the case of males
who show capability with arcane power, they are never seen again. Outsiders have many
theories about this strange fact, some or all of which may be true. Some folk whisper that
the male children are offered up in sacrifice to the land to keep its magic strong. Others
believe that the males are magically transformed into females. Still others whisper that
there is a secret sect of mages whose purpose is to serve the Wychlaran as magical
craftsmen. Those who whisper this last are often heard to whisper the term Vremyonni,
or “Old One” in old Raumathari.
While the wychlaran serve Rashemen as judges, rulers, priests, and warriors, men
with spellcasting ability are segregated from their kin as vremyonni, or “Old Ones.”
These men must secret themselves among the hidden village and cavern strongholds of
the vremyonni, or they must leave Rashemen. To refuse this command is death. Most Old
Ones accept this as the way of things and do not begrudge their seclusion. In their hidden
refuges, they become expert weaponsmiths and item-crafters, working with the spirits of
Rashemen to create powerful Telthor Spirit Constructs in defense of the land. On very
rare occasions, when Rashemen faces the direst threats, vremyonni take the field and
march to war alongside the wychlaran. Masked like their hathran sisters, each binds
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himself to a hathran with a short length of silken cord, and the paired spellcasters work as
deadly teams.
NOTE: This background requires the character to be either a sorcerer or wizard,
as only individuals shown to already have arcane magic potential are accepted amongst
the Vremyonni of Rashemen. The character also must have grown up in Rashemen and
be a male. It should be noted that this background does not require the character to
choose the new arcane tradition of Vremyonni, but simply allows them to do so if they
choose. Many Vremyonni Apprentices go on to be any of the other arcane traditions
(particularly evokers) or even Raumathari Battlemages. Many vremyonni apprentices
also find this life too harsh, and as a result they leave their country of birth on a dajemma
trip when they come of age.
Skill Proficiencies: Arcana, History
Tools: One type of Artisan's Tools
Languages: Choose one from among Sylvan, Primordial, and Draconic. Plus you gain
the Rashemi language.
Equipment: a simple hand carved and grey-painted wooden face mask (which can serve
as an arcane focus, these masks also usually have some simple decoration to allow
Vremyonni to recognize individuals within their order); a bottle of black ink, a quill, a
black robe; a book (typically a history book or treatise on magic) ; a quarterstaff made
from the body of a treant, dryad, wood wose, or volodni that died sacrificing themselves
for Rashemen; an artisan's tool kit (matching the above choice); and a belt pouch
containing 10 gp
Feature: Familiar Construct
The Vremyonni have studied much of the lost lore of ancient Raumathar,
particularly the later eras of the empire in which they began to experiment with construct
creation. The Raumathari were masters of elemental (particularly earth, metal, and fire
magics) and fey based magics involving the telthor spirits that inhabited their homeland.
One important discovery they learned was how to bind a telthor spirit to a simple
construct made from the body of a dead elemental or fey being (including plant beings),
such that they could animate the construct without being destroyed if the construct is
destroyed.
Whenever the Vremyonni Apprentice casts the spell find familiar, the spirit drawn
can be coerced into inhabiting a non-magical simple one-handed melee weapon if said
melee weapon is composed of some materials that were formerly of elemental, fey, or
living plant origin (it should be noted here that the Vremyonni over the last century have
taken to secretly mining ironfell from the body of Telos in Vaasa for just this express
purpose and have had interesting results in their experimentation). The cost of a simple
weapon made of these materials is typically 10 times the cost of a normal weapon of
similar make. This simple weapon inhabited by the familiar is treated as an animated
object similar to but weaker than a flying sword (typically a hand axe, mace, quarterstaff,
or spear which has the same statistics as a flying sword with the following three
modifications Armor Class 15 Hit Points 10 (3d6) and damage on a hit is 4 (1d6+1) ).
All rules about familiar's apply, except that it can attack, and when the familiar is
dismissed it leaves behind the weapon that it had animated. If the familiar drops to 0 hit
points, the weapon is destroyed and cannot be reused by a newly summoned familiar
(unless of course the weapon is mended with a mending cantrip or similar). Since the
familiar's “body” is just a non-magical item, it can be repaired of damage through
castings of the mending cantrip (repairing 1d4 hit points of damage per casting).
Special Penalty: Due to the forced solitude of this background, all Vremyonni
apprentices suffer disadvantage when it comes to social interactions (i.e. Charisma skill
checks).
d8 Personality Trait
1 I've been isolated for so long that I rarely speak, preferring gestures and the
occasional grunt
2 I've spoken to spirits inhabiting mundane items so often that I find myself carrying on
conversations with inanimate objects when I attempt to working out puzzling
conundrums.
3 I've seen so few women since I was a young age that I find myself tongue-twisted and
shy when one of them is around.
4 I don't like women, and I blame them for my lot in life. However, begrudgingly I
know that I must work with the Wychlaran that visit our Vremyonni strongholds.
5 I am immensely proud of my skill at crafting magical items, boasting of my skill and
giving details on the special materials I had to acquire and successfully combine to
anyone who will take the time to listen.
6 I connect everything that happens to me to a grand cosmic plan
7 I often get lost in my own thoughts and contemplations, becoming oblivious to my
surroundings.
8 I miss interacting with society and my family. I often find myself daydreaming about
being able to once again perform the simple everyday things that I used to do, to the
point that I consider sneaking away and secretly visiting them.
d6 Ideal
1 Self Sacrifice. I have given myself to a life of solitude amongst my brethren in order
to make my homeland safe. (Good)
2 Logic. Emotions must not cloud our sense of what is right and true, or our logical
thinking (Lawful)
3 Free Thinking. Inquiry and curiosity are the pillars of progress. To try and fail is
better than not to have tried at all, and will often teach you something in the process.
(Chaotic)
4 Subversive. I have been mistreated by being forced to leave society. Still, I can
work within the constraints of my environment until I find a way to overthrow to yoke
of my Wychlaran oppressors (evil)
5 Work is Life's Purpose. There is nothing greater than proving your greatness to the
world through building a better design. (any)
6 Destiny. Nothing and no one can steer me away from my higher calling (any)
d6 Bond
1 My fellow Vremyonni are my new brothers, and I would gladly stand beside them to
defend our home from invaders.
2 My father died defending our homeland, but his telthor spirit returned one night when
monsters invaded our village. He saved my mother, and ever since I have made it my
personal rule to treat all spirits with great respect.
3 I was captured by Thayan slavers, but rescued by a party of adventurers. After
knowing the fate that I luckily escaped, I've made it my secret goal to strike out
against slavery in the world.
4 My father taught me the value of a fine piece of steel, and as a result I feel a natural
kinship with those who value my skills as a weapon and armor crafter.
5 I pursue power to secure someone's love
6 I have a family, but I have no idea where they are. One day I hope to see them again.
d6 Flaw
1 I use alcohol to gain enough courage to deal with problems in the outside world,
especially if it comes to women.
2 I am innocent in the ways of the world, trusting too easily.
3 I have daydreamed of being a hero so often, that when put in situation requiring true
heroism I often act without thinking things through.
4 I let my need to win arguments overshadow friendships and harmony
5 I'm horribly jealous of anyone who can outshine my handiwork. Everywhere I go,
I'm surrounded by rivals.
6 I have trouble trusting in my allies |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2021 : 13:08:39
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FEATS
Arcane Artisanry
Prerequisites - at least three levels in the artificer class and at least four levels in a spellcasting class that provides full spellcasting levels for adding up available spell slots when multi-classing (i.e. Bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard, but not paladin, ranger, eldritch knight or Arcane Trickster).
Normally, when multiclassing an artificer, the number of levels gained on the multiclass spellcaster table for artificer levels are cut in half. Due to this feat, the number of levels gained from artificer levels become one for each level of artificer. Also, when preparing artificer spells, you may prepare a number of spells equal to your artificer level + intelligence modifier. This will not work to qualify you for other feats using your artificer class (such as Multicasting Prodigy).
As a result of learning from two spellcasting traditions, you have learned how to control spells as if you were higher level in the two spellcasting classes that were used to qualify for this feat. You may prepare or know higher level spells as if you were four levels higher in your artificer class. You may also learn and use infusions as if you were four levels higher in your artificer class, but this does not increase your number of known infusions (such that a 6th level artificer could learn and use an infusion normally only usable by a 10th level artificer). You may prepare or know higher level spells as if you were two levels higher in your other class with the spellcasting feature. This can increase the number that you can prepare or know, as well as increase the level of spell that you can prepare or know. This does not increase your number of spell slots, but it does allow you to use higher level spell slots you already have. As an example, an 12th level character that has 8 levels of wizard and 4 levels of artificer would prepare 10+ intelligence modifier wizard spells of up to 5th level and prepare 8 + intelligence modifier artificer spells of up to 2nd level, and they would have the spell slots of a 12th level multiclass spellcaster.
If the person with this feat reaches 16th level and has at least 7 levels in both the classes used to acquire this feat, instead of four levels in artificer and two levels in the other class, they instead are treated as four levels higher in both classes for known or prepared spells (essentially increasing the level of spells able to be cast in the other class and adding extra prepared or known spells accordingly).
Finally, you gain proficiency in a tool of your choice upon taking this feat.
Multicasting Prodigy
Prerequisite – Must have at least two levels in two classes providing the Spellcasting feature or Pact Magic feature. The spellcasting classes involved must be ones that provide full spellcasting levels for adding up available spell slots when multi-classing (i.e. Bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard, but not paladin, ranger, eldritch knight or Arcane Trickster). Must have a 3rd level spell slot and be at least a 6th lvl character.
As a result of learning from two spellcasting traditions, you have learned how to control spells as if you were higher level in the two spellcasting classes that were used to qualify for this feat. You may prepare or know higher level spells as if you were two levels higher in your class with the spellcasting feature. This can increase the number that you can prepare or know, as well as increase the level of spell that you can prepare or know. This does not increase your number of spell slots, but it does allow you to use higher level spell slots you already have. In the case of pact magic casters, you increase your spells known as if you were two levels higher and increases the slot level of your spell slots, but it does not increase the number of pact magic spell slots that you have. As an example, an 8th level character that has five levels of wizard and 3 levels of bard would prepare 7+ intelligence modifier wizard spells of up to 4th level and know 3 bard spells of up to level 3.
If more than twelve levels separate the levels of your spellcasting classes, for example, a 16th level character that is 14th level wizard and 2nd level cleric, the increase given to the lower level class is increased from two to four.
In addition, gain one cantrip from druidcraft, prestidigitation, and thaumaturgy that comes from one of your spellcasting class spell lists. If you already have all of these that are available to you, gain another cantrip of your choice from one of your spellcasting class spell lists.
Multicasting Mastery
Prerequisite – Multicasting Prodigy Feat. You must have an ability score of at least 15 in the ability score that sets your save DC for both classes affected by Multicasting Prodigy (CHA for bards, sorcerers, and warlocks, WIS for clerics and druids, INT for wizards). Must have a 5th level spell slot and be at least a 10th lvl character.
This feat replaces the effects of and is treated exactly like the Multicasting Prodigy Feat, except the bonus levels for determining numbers and highest level for known and/or prepared spells work slightly differently. If four or more levels separates the two classes, then the lesser of the two classes is treated as though it were six levels higher in relation to its known or prepared spells, and the higher level class is treated as though it were two levels higher in relation to its known or prepared spells. If three levels separate the two, then five levels are added to the lesser and three to the greater. If two levels or less separate the two classes, then both classes are treated as though they are four levels higher in relation to its known or prepared spells. If twelve or more levels separates the two classes, then the lesser of the two classes is treated as though it were eight levels higher in relation to its known or prepared spells, and the higher level class is treated as though it were two levels higher in relation to its known or prepared spells. Because this feat replaces the effects of the Multicasting Prodigy Feat, these bonuses are NOT added to the effects of that feat.
As an example, a 20th level character that is 16th level as a wizard and 4th level as a cleric would prepare 18+ intelligence modifier wizard spells of up to 9th level and 12+ wisdom modifier modifier cleric spells of up to 6th level. This does not increase the number of spells slots for the character, and the character retains the cantrip gained from the Multicasting Prodigy feat.
War Wizardry
Prerequisites - warcaster feat, at least three levels in fighter class with the eldritch knight archetype class chosen, at least two levels in wizard with the arcane tradition of either School of Abjuration, School of Evocation, Bladesinging (see Tasha's Cauldron of Everything), or War Magic (see Xanathar's Guide to Everything for information on War Magic)
Normally, when multiclassing a wizard and a fighter with eldritch knight, you would use a formula of # of wizard levels + 1/3 # of fighter levels to get their spell slots per level on the Multiclass Spellcaster table. You would then gain prepared spells as a wizard and known spells as an eldritch knight, and the maximum level for each would be set by the spell table of that class. You would get cantrips from each class.
When you take this feat, when multiclassing a wizard and a fighter with eldritch knight, you would use a formula or # of wizard levels + 1/2 # of fighter levels +1 to get their spell slots per level on the Multiclass Spellcaster table. You would then gain prepared spells as a wizard as if they were a wizard of level equal to (# of wizard levels + 1/2 # of fighter levels +1). This affects the number of spells prepared and highest level of spells prepared. You lose your spells known as an eldritch knight. You would still get cantrips from each class as normal.
As an example, a 15th level character with 8 levels of wizard and 7 levels of fighter (eldritch knight) would get spell slots as 12th level (8+3+1) on the Multiclass Spellcaster table, they would prepare spells as a 12th level wizard (preparing 12 + intelligence modifier spells of up to 6th level). They would receive 2 cantrips from eldritch knight and 4 cantrips from wizard.
In addition, the character's weapon(s) to which he is bonded can act as his arcane focus when casting spells. Also, once per long rest, using his weapons as a focus the character may cast a spell without having to use either the verbal or somatic spell component. At 12th level they gain an additional use of this ability.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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prototype00
Acolyte
48 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2021 : 17:55:17
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Ah, excellent, thanks so much for all the info Sleyvas, I did refer back to your Red Book before I asked this question, so it is nice to hear the supplementary information that you have provided.
So, just to unpack what are the options for an Artificer inclined male child in Rashemen in the ranks of the Vremyonni:
1. Take the 5e Artificer class and an appropriate background (Sage, Hermit) to simulate having grown up in that tradition (if not adhering strictly to the provided curriculum)
2. Multiclass Artificer and Arcane Artisanry (this represents a more traditional Vremyonni crafter of magic items)
3. Take an updated version of Raumathari Warmage (pending) that caters also to Artificers and Eldritch Knights (both martial traditions, one focuses more on the equipment and the other on the old forms of combat)
Culturally (which I was also trying to understand) I would assume 1 and 3 would fall under the "accepted but seen as underling/protectors" whereas 2 would be a more conventional path to advancement in the Vremyonni hierarchy? |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2021 : 20:25:16
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Here's a 5E artificer subclass version I hope to put out in Forgotten Characters of the Realms 2 one of these days...
Vremyonni
The vremyonni, are a group of hermetic artificers who perform arcane research and craft magical items for the good of Rashemen. They are as loyal to the wychlaran, the fabled Witches of Rashemen, as other Rashemaar and take great pride in their role as researchers and teachers.
All young Rashemaar are tested for magical aptitude. Girls who show skill in spellcasting are taken in by the wychlaran, while the boys who show talent are sent to vremyonni apprenticeship. Parents, by tradition, have no choice in the matter; magically skilled children are taken regardless of their feelings. Parents are compensated with farm animals, buildings, equipment, or orphaned children given in exchange. Such is the esteem in which the Rashemaar hold the wychlaran that all accept this arrangement, and few complain.
The vremyonni live in isolated and secret lairs among the deep caves and clefts of the Running Rocks, mountains in Rashemen’s High Country. There, in these cavern refuges and strongholds, they are guarded by rare spells and sealed with great stone doors that require the proper magical command word to open. Most vremyonni accept this as the way of things and do not begrudge their seclusion.
Once taken in by the vremyonni, the boys are trained in the magical arts and serve as apprentices and assistants. Once a young man reaches the age of 20, he is given a choice: Stay with the vremyonni and learn their secrets or depart Rashemen permanently, bound by a geas never to reveal the secrets of the vremyonni. To refuse this command is death. About half choose to stay, while the remainder wander the world as traveling artificers, or settle in distant lands. Those who stay begin to learn the deepest secrets of Rashemen’s magic (as well as the recovered secrets of the ancient Imaskari artificers), become expert weaponsmiths and item crafters, and create potent magic weapons for the berserkers and wychlaran in defense of the land. A few, having been allowed to do so, have put aside their masks and serve as spies in the wider world. And some, once they have mastered the theories and intricacies of magic, become one of the "Old Ones" themselves, usually at the age of 70 or older; the vremyonni are kept alive by longevity potions and spells.
On rare occasions, when Rashemen faces a particularly strong direct threat, vremyonni take the field and march to war alongside the wychlaran. Masked like their wychlaran sisters, each binds himself to a wychlaran with a short length of silken cord, and the paired spellcasters work as a deadly team.
Given that vremyonni grow up within their isolated community, most vremyonni take the hermit background (PH 134-135), taking proficiency in Arcana, Investigation, and alchemist's tools rather than the listed proficiencies and language. They often have some of the suggested characteristics of acolytes (PH 127) or sages (PH138), modifying the entries as appropriate to suit their membership in the vremyonni brotherhood. Vremyonni hermits also start with a nonmagical vremyonni mask.
Restriction: Rashemaar Men Only
Only male Rashemaar (citizens of Rashemen) humans—usually, but not necessarily, ethnically Rashemi—and spirit folk can become vremyonni.
Your DM can lift this restriction to better suit the campaign. The restriction reflects the story of the vremyonni in the Forgotten Realms, but it might not apply to your DM’s setting or your DM’s version of the Realms.
Although, firearms are found in the Realms, vremyonni have not generally been exposed to them. Your DM may decide you do not gain the artificer's optional firearm proficiency.
Arcane Researcher
At 3rd level, your intense researching of the Weave and magic in all its forms grants you the following benefits:
• Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses the Arcana proficiency.
• Whenever you gain an artificer level, you can replace one cantrip you learned from your artificer Spellcasting feature with another cantrip from the artificer or wizard spell list.
• Like a wizard, you now have a spellbook (PH 114), except your spellbook contains all the spells on the artificer spell list. When you prepare spells, you choose a number of artificer spells from your spellbook equal to your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier + half your artificer level, rounded down (minimum 1).
• Starting with 3rd level, each time you gain an artificer level, you add one wizard spell of your choice to your spellbook. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spel slots. On your adventures, you might find other spells that you can add to your spellbook (see the "Your Spellbook" sidebar on page 114 of the Player’s Handbook). The wizard spells you learn are artificer spells for you.
• You can use an arcane focus or mask (cost: 5 gp; weight: —) as a spellcasting focus for your artificer spells. The masks, used by both vremyonni and wychlaran, are made from a variety of materials, including stiff lacquered cloth, leather, wood, glazed ceramic, bone, steel, copper, silver, or a mixture of materials. They are typically embellished with paint and the addition or inlaying of other materials, such as feathers, horn, bone, and metal.
• You always have the spells detect magic and identify prepared in addition to those spells that you normally prepare. If you make a DC 13 Intelligence (Arcana) check for common items, 16 for uncommon, 19 for rare, 21 for very rare, and 24 for legendary, you don't need to provide a material component when casting identify.
• If you learn the Replicate Magic Item infusion, you can choose to change the form of the following items to that of a mask: brooch of shielding, cap of waterbreathing, dread helmXG, eyes of charming, eyes of the eagle, gem of seeing, goggles of night, hat of disguise, hat of wizardryXG, headband of intellect, helm of telepathy, horn of silent alarmXG, lantern of revealing, medallion of thoughts, ring of mind shielding, ring of protection, shield of expressionXG, and wand of magic detection. Similarly, if you learn the Resistant Armor infusion, you can apply the infusion's benefits to a nonmagical mask.
• You add witchboat to the list of infusions you can learn.
Arcane Armorer
You create the magical arms and armor that gird the berserkers and wychlaran of Rashemen.
When you reach 5th level, you learn the Enhanced Arcane Focus (which you can also apply to a crystal, mask, or orb, in addition to a rod, staff, or wand), Enhanced Defense, and Enhanced Weapon infusions. They don’t count against the number of infusions you know.
Cantrip Mastery
At 9th level, you gain the ability make sure you have the right cantrips when you need them. Whenever you finish a short or long rest, you can replace one of the artificer or wizard cantrips you know with another cantrip from the artificer or wizard spell list.
Arcane Mastery
At 15th level, you gain one additional spell slot of 5th, 6th, and 7th level and add one wizard spell of each of those levels to your spellbook. You may also learn other wizard spells of those levels and add them to your spellbook.
Longevity
Also at 15th level, your extended exposure to longevity potions and magic cause you to age more slowly. For every 10 years that pass, your body ages only 1 year.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2021 : 19:06:55
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Tom,
Hey, just looking over what you did, if you don't mind some feedback (and I don't mind same in reverse).... Your wording for arcane armor doesn't match the ability, but the wording is a good idea. What if they learn less infusions, but they can also create non-infused items of that sort for a reduced cost (maybe 25% less or somesuch). By that I mean, maybe they get enhanced defense, and so they can make +1 armor or shields for 25% less time and money? Then as they level they can get more of these (so you don't give them 3 at 5th level, but rather a choice of 1 at 5th, 1 at 9th, and a 3rd at 15th)? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2021 : 22:12:43
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| Thanks Sleyvas. It should read Arcane Armorer (so that should cover armor and weapons), but I'm no following the time and money cost. Infusions don't cost time and money in 5E or am I missing something? I hear you about spacing out the bonus infusions, but since that's all they get at 5th, I felt that was a decent ability. Just getting one would be kind of lame I think. Honestly, I wish they were a little more generous with the infusions in 5E, so I'm probably showing a bit of bias there. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2021 : 03:10:26
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Thanks Sleyvas. It should read Arcane Armorer (so that should cover armor and weapons), but I'm no following the time and money cost. Infusions don't cost time and money in 5E or am I missing something? I hear you about spacing out the bonus infusions, but since that's all they get at 5th, I felt that was a decent ability. Just getting one would be kind of lame I think. Honestly, I wish they were a little more generous with the infusions in 5E, so I'm probably showing a bit of bias there.
Well, an infusion is just one item, and artificers can only make so many. If they're outfitting regular Rashemaar with magical equipment, it implies that they're making armor and giving it away. So, the idea isn't so much them making an infusion, but rather them crafting magic items easier. Not extremely powerful ones mind you... just a regular old +1 weapon or armor, but they're very efficient at it somehow.
In thinking on this concept, there might be some who learn to make jhuild as well (though that's typically thought of as witch made). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2021 : 21:27:16
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| I hear you sleyvas. We just don't have good/clear rules in 5E for item crafting like we did in 3E, which is clearly on purpose. I wasn't up for developing an entirely new magic crafting system for 5E, so I chose to hue closer to the 5E artificer's bounds. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2021 : 23:43:47
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Agreed that the rules aren't good, and not to harp that you should add this, but I also know the DMG has a sh*tty reference point. The rules are hard to find in there. The stuff for making magic items is on page 128-129 of the DMG, and the cost and time is laid out there. +1 armor is "rare" so it would normally cost 5000 gpld, and it takes 200 days to make (5000 / 25 gold per day). Of the two things there, the time is actually the bigger thing to me, so if they could make +1 armor in half the time at 20% of the cost (100 days at 4000 gold) that sounds pretty fair. Divide all these numbers by 10 for weapons, since they're uncommon.
Of course, in the same rules, you can buy items of certain rarities cheaper than you can theoretically make them, so I agree, definitely not the greatest system. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2021 : 21:20:58
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Fair point. I'll add something like that. Thanks Sleyvas.
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2021 : 21:34:14
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| In addition, when crafting magic items, including potions and scrolls (DMG 128-129 or Xanathar's Guide to Everything 128-130 and 133), you can reduce the time (or workweeks) and cost by 20 percent. If you use the complication rules in Xanathar's Guide to Everything and you craft the item in Rashemen, you also reduce the chance of a complication by 90 percent. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2021 : 23:30:46
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
In addition, when crafting magic items, including potions and scrolls (DMG 128-129 or Xanathar's Guide to Everything 128-130 and 133), you can reduce the time (or workweeks) and cost by 20 percent. If you use the complication rules in Xanathar's Guide to Everything and you craft the item in Rashemen, you also reduce the chance of a complication by 90 percent.
Had not seen that... will need to read it. Thank you. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2021 : 23:41:27
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| One thing I had played with as an idea with an NPC was that the vremyonni are involved with "factories" hidden away in the hills. We kind of see this with the idea of the smokestacks rising out of the ground at the ring of gray flames. At the same time, the main community of underdark dwellers beneath the area are the duergar of Fraaszummdin (Steederhome), who are primarily interested in training steeders and other giant insects. However, they are still duergar, and it might be interesting if they had an involvement of some sort with the vremyonni.... whether it be a positive OR a negative involvement. Perhaps some of them are interested in the factories as a directive of Laduguer. Perhaps they trade with the vremyonni to make constuct parts. Perhaps they're interested in uncovering some hidden secret of the vremyonni (such as perhaps the vremyonni are trained to maintain something akin to a nuclear reactor that's containing radioactive material..... maybe they've learned to harvest the energy off faerzress for instance and have it infuse into water, and then the "infused water" can have a spell placed into it to effectively create a potion... a little like heavy magic but different). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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On the subject of the Vremyonni and the Artificer.
