| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Oct 2021 : 17:53:38
|
|
Are the current whereabouts / final fate of the devils that were impersonating people (Lord Orgauth and Desdemona, at least) in Zhentil Keep known?
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2021 : 19:53:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Are the current whereabouts / final fate of the devils that were impersonating people (Lord Orgauth and Desdemona, at least) in Zhentil Keep known?
Zhentil Keep was officially flattened a while ago*, and not rebuilt this time**, so I'd assume that the "out of town" folks like Orgauth went home.
It is, of course, possible that both remain in the Realms -- perhaps still with the Black Network -- and that they've assume other identities.
*For no readily apparent reason
**Also for no readily apparent reason |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
 |
|
|
TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2021 : 20:48:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Are the current whereabouts / final fate of the devils that were impersonating people (Lord Orgauth and Desdemona, at least) in Zhentil Keep known?
Zhentil Keep was officially flattened a while ago*, and not rebuilt this time**, so I'd assume that the "out of town" folks like Orgauth went home.
It is, of course, possible that both remain in the Realms -- perhaps still with the Black Network -- and that they've assume other identities.
*For no readily apparent reason
**Also for no readily apparent reason
What took its place? You can't just have that kind of power vacuum. SOMETHING is going to replace it. It may be Beartopia, Kingdom of the Care Bears but something is going to be in the area. Perhaps, there was a hobgoblin warlord (or a devil pretending to be one) that arose and conquered the area. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
|
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2021 : 21:44:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
What took its place? You can't just have that kind of power vacuum. SOMETHING is going to replace it. It may be Beartopia, Kingdom of the Care Bears but something is going to be in the area. Perhaps, there was a hobgoblin warlord (or a devil pretending to be one) that arose and conquered the area.
It wasn't really addressed -- much like how and why Shade destroyed Zhentil Keep and the Citadel of the Raven wasn't addressed. Or how Shade found and conquered the Lost Vale. Or what happened to the saurials that were there. Or... the list continues. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2021 : 23:06:41
|
Ok... I thought as much, but thought it possible that some time in a 4th edition product their fate was mentioned somewhere. Not surprised it was not.
Thanks for confirming. |
Edited by - The Masked Mage on 05 Oct 2021 23:17:29 |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2021 : 23:13:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
What took its place? You can't just have that kind of power vacuum. SOMETHING is going to replace it. It may be Beartopia, Kingdom of the Care Bears but something is going to be in the area. Perhaps, there was a hobgoblin warlord (or a devil pretending to be one) that arose and conquered the area.
In my realms it was replaced by, you'll never believe this - Zhentil Keep. It got rebuilt. Again. Why would it not? Especially when you think of it as a Sembian venture in the north. All those minerals and things still have to be mined and shipped south so the rich folks can get more rich. The big difference is Zhentil Keep is not the heart of what remains of the Zhentarim. Its basically Flostren's hold again, and lingering Zhent influences are working to "build back better" while remaining hidden and trying to take control.
The whole "Zhentil Keep is an evil stronghold in the North that simultaneously takes on every other power in the region and comes out ahead most times, but gets destroyed by New Netheril in a day because we don't write good" thing is right at the top of my list for garbage moves they have made. |
|
|
|
TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2021 : 01:44:00
|
| Yeah, the whole "the Black Network is no more" thing just didn't make sense. If the leadership got killed, there were plenty of other power hungry types in the organization to step in and try to take their place. For the Darkhold, I could kinda see it drifting away from the whole "we are going to take over the world!" schtick because Pereghost seems to be more of a straight military/mercenary kinda guy and not a spymaster. For Zhentil Keep/Citadel of the Raven, it would be chaos as everyone was trying to make sure they came out on top but eventually things would have settled down with someone in charge. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
|
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2021 : 01:47:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
In my realms it was replaced by, you'll never believe this - Zhentil Keep. It got rebuilt. Again. Why would it not? Especially when you think of it as a Sembian venture in the north. All those minerals and things still have to be mined and shipped south so the rich folks can get more rich. The big difference is Zhentil Keep is not the heart of what remains of the Zhentarim. Its basically Flostren's hold again, and lingering Zhent influences are working to "build back better" while remaining hidden and trying to take control.
If I included Shade's destruction of Zhentil Keep in my own Realms, then I would also have them rebuild. They rebuilt once before, and fairly rapidly, too -- it doesn't make sense that they'd just shrug their shoulders, write off Zhentil Keep and the Citadel of the Raven as a loss, and operate out of Darkhold like nothing happened. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2021 : 14:19:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If I included Shade's destruction of Zhentil Keep in my own Realms, then I would also have them rebuild. They rebuilt once before, and fairly rapidly, too -- it doesn't make sense that they'd just shrug their shoulders, write off Zhentil Keep and the Citadel of the Raven as a loss, and operate out of Darkhold like nothing happened.
Yeah, I'm trying to keep as much of the "canon" events as I can (just undoing deaths and things with clones and resurrections and other standard rpg methods. As far as the Zhents go, Manshoon had little bits of the important ones saved up to clone for later. |
|
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2429 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2021 : 20:08:19
|
The "Mooneyes" are not known for quitting easily.
I mean, Phlan was dragged into Hells for a while. If they didn't leave the town after that... |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 09 Oct 2021 00:58:13 |
|
|
|
Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2021 : 15:41:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Are the current whereabouts / final fate of the devils that were impersonating people (Lord Orgauth and Desdemona, at least) in Zhentil Keep known?
Scyllua Darkhope slew Abarax the pit fiend (disguised as Lord Orgauth). Presumably Abarax was banished to the Nine Hells for a time. I do not know what happened to the erinyes Eshaeris (disguised as Desdemona), but her profile definitely shrunk after Fzoul took over the Moonsea area. |
|
|
|
Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2021 : 21:32:08
|
IIRC, nobody rebuilt Zhentil Keep for fear of the force that destroyed it (the Shades). The Zhents just relocated to Darkhold. Now that the Shades have been destroyed, perhaps they will rebuilt it?
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*For no readily apparent reason
**Also for no readily apparent reason
This seems like a logical reason for Cyricist to do things. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2021 : 09:10:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Are the current whereabouts / final fate of the devils that were impersonating people (Lord Orgauth and Desdemona, at least) in Zhentil Keep known?
Scyllua Darkhope slew Abarax the pit fiend (disguised as Lord Orgauth). Presumably Abarax was banished to the Nine Hells for a time. I do not know what happened to the erinyes Eshaeris (disguised as Desdemona), but her profile definitely shrunk after Fzoul took over the Moonsea area.
What is this from?
|
|
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2021 : 11:54:23
|
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Book (3E), p.164.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2021 : 18:31:04
|
That explains why I thought something happened to them. I read that Campaign Guide way back when it was new, but have not really referred to it since.
Thanks Krash, thanks Del. Question well answered.
Now to think of a tiny plot to summon Abraxas back. How about Manshoon learns that Fzoul and Orgauth killed his previous self. Learns that Orgauth was Abarax... and after waiting for a century summons and binds the pit fiend to service for the term of one life (or until it is banished again). A life for a life seems fair, after all. :) |
Edited by - The Masked Mage on 11 Oct 2021 18:52:14 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2021 : 20:21:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
That explains why I thought something happened to them. I read that Campaign Guide way back when it was new, but have not really referred to it since.
Thanks Krash, thanks Del. Question well answered.
Now to think of a tiny plot to summon Abraxas back. How about Manshoon learns that Fzoul and Orgauth killed his previous self. Learns that Orgauth was Abarax... and after waiting for a century summons and binds the pit fiend to service for the term of one life (or until it is banished again). A life for a life seems fair, after all. :)
I'd go with Eshaeris, myself. Have her still around, in some new guise, and she's pissed. She find some suitable Zhent mage, pushes him to summon Abarax, and as soon as Abbie shows up, she offs the mage. Abarax can take that mage's place, or he and Eshaeris can assume new identities.
Of course, this requires Eshaeris to have some reason to want Abarax back, and that may or may not be a major sticking point. I don't know if the actual relationship betwixt the two was ever addressed, but it could readily be argued either way that they are allies (he summoned her), she's a subordinate of his (again, he was able to summon her) or that they're enemies (hey, they're both from a tough neighborhood where even Mr. Rogers wouldn't be able to find a friend). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2021 : 03:57:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
That explains why I thought something happened to them. I read that Campaign Guide way back when it was new, but have not really referred to it since.
Thanks Krash, thanks Del. Question well answered.
Now to think of a tiny plot to summon Abraxas back. How about Manshoon learns that Fzoul and Orgauth killed his previous self. Learns that Orgauth was Abarax... and after waiting for a century summons and binds the pit fiend to service for the term of one life (or until it is banished again). A life for a life seems fair, after all. :)
I'd go with Eshaeris, myself. Have her still around, in some new guise, and she's pissed. She find some suitable Zhent mage, pushes him to summon Abarax, and as soon as Abbie shows up, she offs the mage. Abarax can take that mage's place, or he and Eshaeris can assume new identities.
Of course, this requires Eshaeris to have some reason to want Abarax back, and that may or may not be a major sticking point. I don't know if the actual relationship betwixt the two was ever addressed, but it could readily be argued either way that they are allies (he summoned her), she's a subordinate of his (again, he was able to summon her) or that they're enemies (hey, they're both from a tough neighborhood where even Mr. Rogers wouldn't be able to find a friend).
I kind of went that way, but instead, Manshoon summons Abby, Abby summons Eshy. Together both assume wizard identities and become apprentices of a wizard Manshoon wants to control. Instead, Aby nudges is new "master" to make a pact with Dagon (the archdevil, not the demon-lord), who is who he serves in Hell. This has the wizard half-in Manshoon's pocket and half-in a Devil's pocket. His pact also gives him power and long life and together with his "apprentices" he's going to make a Fiend-Knight army. :P
(Current plot was tied together from the "who would you resurrect" Candlekeep thread, this one, and with the "Hell Knight" one as well. :P) |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2021 : 04:00:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
(Current plot was tied together from the "who would you resurrect" Candlekeep thread, this one, and with the "Hell Knight" one as well. :P)
Things like this are why I have such a hard time ever approaching an end for my Zhent project. This will require a new character and a new MC entry at the very least. |
|
|
|
Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
958 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2021 : 01:55:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I kind of went that way, but instead, Manshoon summons Abby, Abby summons Eshy. Together both assume wizard identities and become apprentices of a wizard Manshoon wants to control. Instead, Aby nudges is new "master" to make a pact with Dagon (the archdevil, not the demon-lord), who is who he serves in Hell. This has the wizard half-in Manshoon's pocket and half-in a Devil's pocket. His pact also gives him power and long life and together with his "apprentices" he's going to make a Fiend-Knight army. :P
Would Dagon instruct Abby and Eshy to lure the sucker "master" wizard to Avernus with a Ritual of Renaming scroll? Dagon gets renamed as Jaqon if the spell succeeds. Remember, Dagon would be a willing recipient of the spell. Immediately after getting renamed, Jaqon loses his planar commitment trait and hightails it straight to an already pre-constructed demiplane. The suckered wizard gets stranded on Avernus when a really pissed off Asmodeus shows up.
FYI, Ritual of Renaming is found in 3.5ed Tome of Magic, pp.257-258. |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2021 : 07:39:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I kind of went that way, but instead, Manshoon summons Abby, Abby summons Eshy. Together both assume wizard identities and become apprentices of a wizard Manshoon wants to control. Instead, Aby nudges is new "master" to make a pact with Dagon (the archdevil, not the demon-lord), who is who he serves in Hell. This has the wizard half-in Manshoon's pocket and half-in a Devil's pocket. His pact also gives him power and long life and together with his "apprentices" he's going to make a Fiend-Knight army. :P
Would Dagon instruct Abby and Eshy to lure the sucker "master" wizard to Avernus with a Ritual of Renaming scroll? Dagon gets renamed as Jaqon if the spell succeeds. Remember, Dagon would be a willing recipient of the spell. Immediately after getting renamed, Jaqon loses his planar commitment trait and hightails it straight to an already pre-constructed demiplane. The suckered wizard gets stranded on Avernus when a really pissed off Asmodeus shows up.
FYI, Ritual of Renaming is found in 3.5ed Tome of Magic, pp.257-258.
Whatever floats your boat. I, however, would think it impossible for an average wizard to undo a name change imposed by Asmodeus as a punishment, no matter what ritual he has. |
|
|
|
redking
Learned Scribe
141 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2022 : 03:19:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Zhentil Keep was officially flattened a while ago*, and not rebuilt this time**, so I'd assume that the "out of town" folks like Orgauth went home.
Lol @ "out of town folks". I can imagine Zhent people having a discussion like this.
Z1: "I am stick of these devil outsiders taking over our city. Real Zhents are being overrun".
Z2: "Come now. Surely a few foreigners won't change our great city".
Z1: "Foreign devils! How can you be so blase?".
Z2: "Isn't calling them devils a bit harsh?".
Two Zhents talking past each other. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Baatezu of Zhentil Keep
