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nblanton
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jun 2024 : 18:08:30
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I suppose to bring this back to Xvim, do we think he may not actually be any true relation to Bane as I suggested? The more I think about it, the more I like the idea that Xvim is not actually a spawn of Bane.
I suppose there could even be a possibility that Bane and Xvim don't even fully recognize their own mortal past. We know that with many fiends that were promoted from mortals as well as the information we have about petitioners a lot of the memories of their mortal past fades completely. Perhaps the same occurred with whatever Jergal did when he "hid Bane away until promoting him". Perhaps Bane doesn't even know his mortal history; maybe he thinks he knows it but it is mostly a fabrication.
Xvim could have the same issues. Or perhaps Xvim is the spawn of Bane and was willing to accept his father's story so long as he was not in any position to usurp him. Basically, being the prince of tyranny was better than not, even if he would have preferred to be the king. Once he had the opportunity and the taste of true deific power, he likely no more wanted to relinquish it than any other deity.
Then he finds that he was being "used" by someone, perhaps it was just Bane 1.0 who was using Xvim as a horcrux, maybe Bane 2.0 was some other interloper deity that has just used Bane's previous power base and seized it, or even something else. Either way, we know that Xvim wasn't completely destroyed. He still exists at some level on the Prime inhabiting the minds of some. Possibly this state is similar to the existence that Tyranthraxus is in. However, this latent spirit retains what it learned as a lesser deity. One of the major things that Xvim now knows is that Bane isn't what he has always presented himself as.
Perhaps Xvim doesn't know the whole story but got enough of it to piece together what we've established so far. We've seen Xvim show up several times in random places throughout Faerun over the years. Westgate, Icewind Dale, Thay, underneath Zhentil Keep, etc. Perhaps part of his work even during this time was piecing together some of the inconsistencies of his father's past. Finding things that would diminish Lord Bane would definitely be the types of things that would be useful for such being who would want to usurp the throne. Or possibly given that we have also suggested that Xvim may be some sort of an aspect of Nergal and allied at least at one time with the proto-Bane who was a scion of Gilgeam, that Xvim was actually actively going around and planting "evidence" of events the Dead Three used as part of their mythology.
I would think the latter would almost make more interesting backstory for a campaign. Xvim knows where the heresies are located because he was the one that was planting them. Prior to the return of Bane, there was no real benefit of unmasking his "father's" true life as it would not have served his purpose. As for Bane, he gave this task to Xvim as he was able to be trusted with it as it was not something he would have wanted his clergy to know, although it would be suspected that some of the highest would have likely been suspicious.
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It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. Never hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, if it goes against the obvious intent of the game.
Afterword, DMG pg 230. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2024 : 01:23:55
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quote:
Originally posted by nblanton
Perhaps Bane doesn't even know his mortal history; maybe he thinks he knows it but it is mostly a fabrication.
so... basically the idea behind the Cyrinishad may have occurred before.... interesting, especially if it keeps happening to the beings that hold the office of the Tyrant (which brings up the question of if Cyric read the Cyrinishad before or after Xvim was released). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2024 : 03:14:32
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There's been at least one reference to Xvim's mom being a fallen paladin, and at least one reference to her being a fiend.
My spin is that his mom was a tiefling paladin who fell, and carrying Bane's child caused her to become a fiend. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2024 : 03:35:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
There's been at least one reference to Xvim's mom being a fallen paladin, and at least one reference to her being a fiend.
My spin is that his mom was a tiefling paladin who fell, and carrying Bane's child caused her to become a fiend.
Bane must have been a monster in the sack to turn a paladin into a succubus. |
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nblanton
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2024 : 17:56:57
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quote:
so... basically the idea behind the Cyrinishad may have occurred before.... interesting, especially if it keeps happening to the beings that hold the office of the Tyrant (which brings up the question of if Cyric read the Cyrinishad before or after Xvim was released).
Nothing to suggest it, but your comment did make me think about the coincidence of the events.
Perhaps Xvim is the actual father of Cyric. We know that he was in Zhentil Keep at some point prior to the Time of Troubles.
We really don't know what all is actually in The True Life of Cyric either, but it doesn't seem that this information (if it were true) would have been included. Then again, assuming Cyric's true mother is accurate to the story (a bard who ultimately fell upon hard times after being knocked up by a Zhentish soldier) perhaps Oghma decided it best to leave out that part. After all, one would expect that Cyric's mother would have been a petitioner of Oghma at that point having been a bard, and perhaps even Oghma would not prefer to have this part of Cyric's background validated. After all, we the audience simply assume that the The True Life of Cyric is accurate to its title.
And looking at the rest of the companions Cyric traveled with that achieved divinity, none had the rather impressive background that Cyric did. It seemed like he, unlike Kelemvor or Midnight had some level of power beyond what a simple mortal would.
Cyric's diminishing upon the reading of The True Life of Cyric by Fzoul could have been the spark that rejuvenated Xvim allowing him to reach out to his nascent cult to free him and achieve his full deification. |
It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. Never hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, if it goes against the obvious intent of the game.
Afterword, DMG pg 230. |
Edited by - nblanton on 12 Jul 2024 18:01:05 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2024 : 22:33:53
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quote:
Originally posted by nblanton
quote:
so... basically the idea behind the Cyrinishad may have occurred before.... interesting, especially if it keeps happening to the beings that hold the office of the Tyrant (which brings up the question of if Cyric read the Cyrinishad before or after Xvim was released).
Nothing to suggest it, but your comment did make me think about the coincidence of the events.
Perhaps Xvim is the actual father of Cyric. We know that he was in Zhentil Keep at some point prior to the Time of Troubles.
We really don't know what all is actually in The True Life of Cyric either, but it doesn't seem that this information (if it were true) would have been included. Then again, assuming Cyric's true mother is accurate to the story (a bard who ultimately fell upon hard times after being knocked up by a Zhentish soldier) perhaps Oghma decided it best to leave out that part. After all, one would expect that Cyric's mother would have been a petitioner of Oghma at that point having been a bard, and perhaps even Oghma would not prefer to have this part of Cyric's background validated. After all, we the audience simply assume that the The True Life of Cyric is accurate to its title.
And looking at the rest of the companions Cyric traveled with that achieved divinity, none had the rather impressive background that Cyric did. It seemed like he, unlike Kelemvor or Midnight had some level of power beyond what a simple mortal would.
Cyric's diminishing upon the reading of The True Life of Cyric by Fzoul could have been the spark that rejuvenated Xvim allowing him to reach out to his nascent cult to free him and achieve his full deification.
Actually, we DON'T assume that the True Life of Cyric (aka the Cyrinishad) is true. That was kind of the point, correct? It was a book that when read would make one believe the lies that it presented, making one believe Cyric was much more powerful than he was.
Taking this a step further, if Xvim became the next Tyrant... for all we know, Xvim himself was entrapped by a lie that he himself wasn't who he knew himself to be ... and thus the return of "Bane". But that's probably getting way out of hand. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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nblanton
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2024 : 00:02:47
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The Cyrinishad and The True Life of Cyric are two separate things.
One was the artifact (relic?) that caused all who read or heard its words to become a fanatical devotee of Cyric. The latter was penned by the same author, Rinda the Scribe to counter Cyric’s plot to cause the people of Zhentil Keep from falling under the spell of the Cyrinishad.
Oghma had a hand in the writing of the latter, along with Fzoul and Mask.
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It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. Never hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, if it goes against the obvious intent of the game.
Afterword, DMG pg 230. |
Edited by - nblanton on 13 Jul 2024 00:04:21 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2024 : 18:14:51
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quote:
Originally posted by nblanton
The Cyrinishad and The True Life of Cyric are two separate things.
One was the artifact (relic?) that caused all who read or heard its words to become a fanatical devotee of Cyric. The latter was penned by the same author, Rinda the Scribe to counter Cyric’s plot to cause the people of Zhentil Keep from falling under the spell of the Cyrinishad.
Oghma had a hand in the writing of the latter, along with Fzoul and Mask.
ah, thank you for the clarification... 30 years or so dulls the memory. I so wish I had the time, the eyes, and the will to go back and reread so many of these novels. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly's thoughts on Bane 2.0 and Iyachtu Xvim
