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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
507 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Jul 2021 : 19:24:53
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Is there any Realmsian naming for basic magic items?
How would a person or even a mage refer to Gauntlets of Strength +2 vs +4? Or Ring of Protection +1 vs +2?
Obviously they aren't privy to these numbers IC, maybe there is a naming system like Least, Lesser, Moderate, Greater, Greatest. Would someone refer to a +3 Mace as a Magical Mace of Moderate power?
Just trying to add an extra level of RP to a game.
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The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2021 : 20:51:00
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I don't recall seeing anything formalized, like that.
I'd say to come up with unique-ish names for the more powerful stuff. And if not individually named, something that would have an in-setting equivalent descriptor. Gauntlets of Ogre Strength or Gauntlets of Giant Strength, maybe. A ring of shielding or a ring of warding.
And of course, stuff that's like +3 or higher requires more effort to create, so that would all be named. Maybe it's the Mace of Bannuse or simply Bannuse.
And if you want to add another level of RP, ignore the RAW and tweak stuff. Maybe hitting a lock or door with the Mace of Bannuse also acts as a knock spell. Maybe it's got a quirk like in that old issue of Dragon -- like, if you let go of it, it slowly drifts to the floor. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2021 : 20:57:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Maybe hitting a lock or door with the Mace of Bannuse also acts as a knock spell.
And now that I think on it, I am totally stealing my idea for myself. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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SaMoCon
Senior Scribe
USA
403 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2021 : 00:33:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Maybe hitting a lock or door with the Mace of Bannuse also acts as a knock spell.
And now that I think on it, I am totally stealing my idea for myself.
That is always a fun moment in these scrolls when one answers another sage's questions and has an epiphany from one's own response.
Going back to the question of naming conventions in the FR - that might be more of a thinking bias we bring from our modern world of inter-continental trade, mass distribution of information, and clearly legible labels. In example, most of the IRL names and classifications of swords that were made and became fashionable before the industrial revolution were simply called "swords." The names we use use now and are familiar with mostly arose from modern historians and archeologists with even some of those names being tied to who made the blade or what group of people used it (i.e., sax blades were mostly used by the Germanic Saxon people but sax blades could be anything from a table knife to a two-handed weapon of war!). The idea that there would be common names accepted by everyone everywhere implies mass manufacturing and mass consumerism that would either saturate through local cultures or be the dawn of a new monoculture. The innovations and cultural changes that made our notions of naming conventions and available products possible are just either not available or otherwise not gaining any real traction in the FR. Every magic item is going to have its own unique name. Even items that have identical attributes but made by different artificers will be called by entirely different nomenclatures depending if the items are being sold or treasured. Dominick's Cure All Tonic is being hawked by Dominick the Snake-oil Salesman to an unimpressed sword-slinger whom has the blocking dagger Shield Maiden Lorelei that he uses to parry attacks from opponents thinking his off-hand weapon cannot block heavy blows. Dominick pulls up stakes and moves along often and he is not particularly ethical so Dominick's Cure All Tonic might have poison arresting or curing capabilities for one batch to having minor to light cures in another to being an energizing placebo at worst. Shield Maiden Lorelei is just an affectionate name for the dagger known only by the blade-slinger and his friends for a weapon that blocks even heavy weapons more effectively than any shield that the swordsman had used prior.
Power Gloves, Gauntlets of Strength, Mittens of the Titans, Champion's Panzerhands - these could all be names for the magical accessory occupying the hand slot that provides a Strength stat boost. |
Make the best use of the system that's there, then modify the mechanics that don't allow you to have the fun you are looking for. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2401 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2021 : 11:10:34
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Wasn't the rule of thumb "don't make a long sword +1, make a long sword +1 with extra cantrip"?
I certainly remember that in FtR series Ed's example of a more powerful item was shoehorn of puissant castle-blasting.  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6358 Posts |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
507 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2021 : 17:46:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't recall seeing anything formalized, like that.
I'd say to come up with unique-ish names for the more powerful stuff. And if not individually named, something that would have an in-setting equivalent descriptor. Gauntlets of Ogre Strength or Gauntlets of Giant Strength, maybe. A ring of shielding or a ring of warding.
And of course, stuff that's like +3 or higher requires more effort to create, so that would all be named. Maybe it's the Mace of Bannuse or simply Bannuse.
And if you want to add another level of RP, ignore the RAW and tweak stuff. Maybe hitting a lock or door with the Mace of Bannuse also acts as a knock spell. Maybe it's got a quirk like in that old issue of Dragon -- like, if you let go of it, it slowly drifts to the floor.
So far I found the 3.5 Detect Magic Spell has aura strengths, so Faint, Moderate, Strong, Overpowering. I also found the treasure tables listing minor, medium, and major as categories for magic items. I want to be able to describe a magic item to someone who could cast Identify and who can compare two items next to one another. To the non-magical eye items of differing power could look the same or could even look misleading. The Vorpal blade that is all nicked up vs the costume piece that can barely cut butter.
I generally follow the 3.5 rules with access to magic items in the Realms. Small towns might have some cantrip like items. Large towns might have a couple one off +1 magic items. You get to a major metro +1 or +2 basic items can be bought without much trouble. +3 with a bit a of trouble, everything else requires a lot of work.
When I drop loot I try to customize it. Normally with a funny Magical Command word or phrase. Low level spells 1/day are fun on items. Even just Cure Minor Wound for 1 hp to stabilize someone bleeding out, Know Direction for when players get turned around, or even the ability to glow with an faint light on command can be useful on any item. Detect Pregnancy, Minor Disguise, Ghost Sound, Color/Flavor/Heat/Cool Item, are all fun. I remember being inspired by the Faith Tokens in Champions of Valor.
quote:
Originally posted by SaMoCon
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Maybe hitting a lock or door with the Mace of Bannuse also acts as a knock spell.
And now that I think on it, I am totally stealing my idea for myself.
That is always a fun moment in these scrolls when one answers another sage's questions and has an epiphany from one's own response.
An epiphany from ones own rely is very fun. My personal favorite is when searching leads me to a post with just the right answer and then I realize it is my own post from ages ago.
quote:
Originally posted by SaMoCon
Going back to the question of naming conventions in the FR - that might be more of a thinking bias we bring from our modern world of inter-continental trade, mass distribution of information, and clearly legible labels. In example, most of the IRL names and classifications of swords that were made and became fashionable before the industrial revolution were simply called "swords." The names we use use now and are familiar with mostly arose from modern historians and archeologists with even some of those names being tied to who made the blade or what group of people used it (i.e., sax blades were mostly used by the Germanic Saxon people but sax blades could be anything from a table knife to a two-handed weapon of war!). The idea that there would be common names accepted by everyone everywhere implies mass manufacturing and mass consumerism that would either saturate through local cultures or be the dawn of a new monoculture. The innovations and cultural changes that made our notions of naming conventions and available products possible are just either not available or otherwise not gaining any real traction in the FR. Every magic item is going to have its own unique name. Even items that have identical attributes but made by different artificers will be called by entirely different nomenclatures depending if the items are being sold or treasured. Dominick's Cure All Tonic is being hawked by Dominick the Snake-oil Salesman to an unimpressed sword-slinger whom has the blocking dagger Shield Maiden Lorelei that he uses to parry attacks from opponents thinking his off-hand weapon cannot block heavy blows. Dominick pulls up stakes and moves along often and he is not particularly ethical so Dominick's Cure All Tonic might have poison arresting or curing capabilities for one batch to having minor to light cures in another to being an energizing placebo at worst. Shield Maiden Lorelei is just an affectionate name for the dagger known only by the blade-slinger and his friends for a weapon that blocks even heavy weapons more effectively than any shield that the swordsman had used prior.
Power Gloves, Gauntlets of Strength, Mittens of the Titans, Champion's Panzerhands - these could all be names for the magical accessory occupying the hand slot that provides a Strength stat boost.
I understand your argument against common naming and I am not discounting that it occurs to some degree in the Realms but I feel that the real world equivalency may not apply. Specifically because of gods and magic. When you have Red Wizard Enclaves "mass producing" magic items and gods that encourage propagating magic you end up with commonality. You end up with Mage Runes that could be used for authenticity and famous spells with the names of their creators gaining prominence not just in Faerun but across the Multiverse. I vaguely remember a reference somewhere that talked about how wizard's names get added to spells and sometimes get lost/forgotten over time. If I remember right there are also fairly common workbooks that casters can learn from.
I'm not saying that Spencer's Spectacular Swords do not exist, but I imagine it is a +1 sword that ALSO distracts the opponent by whistling a tune from the opposite direction that you are striking from. Ioun Stones are I guess an example where a wizard's name stuck with their creation. But sometimes you just want an army full of soldiers whose weapons make them better killers with a bit of magic. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
Edited by - Gelcur on 21 Jul 2021 17:48:50 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2401 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2021 : 01:10:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur
You end up with Mage Runes that could be used for authenticity and famous spells with the names of their creators gaining prominence not just in Faerun but across the Multiverse. I vaguely remember a reference somewhere that talked about how wizard's names get added to spells and sometimes get lost/forgotten over time. If I remember right there are also fairly common workbooks that casters can learn from.
Netheril (Arcane Age) played it up.
quote:
Ioun Stones are I guess an example where a wizard's name stuck with their creation.
Well, he called them "Congenio's Pebbles"...
quote:
But sometimes you just want an army full of soldiers whose weapons make them better killers with a bit of magic.
Yes, but even in this case "common" does not equal "bland".
Only the drow quasimagic items are just "+X" (when applicable).
Any "proper" enchanted items, even mass produced, is just as likely to be shaped by purpose and/or their maker's "hallmark"/desire to have an edge in this trade.
And if they are not bland "+1", names are more likely to stick in that more people have to mention this type (or even a broad group, like those Shoonrings) somehow.
A human military unit, for example, needs some sort of light sources readily available in case of an attack by someone who doesn't need any. Thus Light is among the likely extras. Unless it's also a religious organization, then most likely features would be some sort of dedication/blessing for the faithful only or something like Protection from Evil.
A canon example of a mass produced item is Purple Dragon's Ring, it's not "Protection +1" at all. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 01 Aug 2021 01:46:32 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6653 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2021 : 08:58:03
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You need to take the Eric Boyd route where every item has an actual name and quite a few have a two page history attached to them.
— George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2021 : 17:57:47
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For me, a found magic item is unknown/unnamed (unless the circumstances of its finding tends to a certain name) until one or more things happens: someone tries it, a detect magic-type of investigation is done, or a legend lore/bard/sage type of investigation is done.
If someone tries it (or it was used against the PCs) and it does something, then the name will come from the what is seen. If a whistle is found to make horses prance, the character may call it a whistle of horse dancing. Of course, it may also calm creatures that use sound like hapies, shriekers, etc. so if the character tries it then, they may decide to call it something else.
If a wizard-type does the investigation, a +1 sword may be found to have a minor enchantment that keeps the blade from being blunted and nicked. In that case, the character may decide it is a sword of durability even though it is not necessarily anything special.
If a bard-type does the investigation, then the history of the blade is brought to light and you will find you have found the sword of <someone's name>. That will tend to have a back story that will need to be fleshed out.
Of course, the DM knows exactly what it is so a wizard may say that +1 sword is just a well-made sword with a minor enchantment when the DM knows it is actually the lost sword of a local hero and suddenly an NPC gets very interested in it when they see it. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2021 : 23:25:36
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While I don't name *every* weapon, I do try to name most of them if the players are likely to get their hands on them, and give it a description and a couple sentence backstory. I don't do that for all items, although each one gets a custom description, down to rings of protection +1.
For descriptive items, though, if they're common, such as rings of protection, wands of conjuration, etc., I do think *that* is the name generally. It would just be a case where "Oh, this ring I found has a stronger enchantment than the one you're wearing" would be how a ring +2 would compare to a ring +1.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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SaMoCon
Senior Scribe
USA
403 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2021 : 00:34:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur
So far I found the 3.5 Detect Magic Spell has aura strengths, so Faint, Moderate, Strong, Overpowering. I also found the treasure tables listing minor, medium, and major as categories for magic items. I want to be able to describe a magic item to someone who could cast Identify and who can compare two items next to one another. To the non-magical eye items of differing power could look the same or could even look misleading. The Vorpal blade that is all nicked up vs the costume piece that can barely cut butter.
I actually ran with the idea that the Detect Magic, Identify, and other spells that may inform or hint at a magic item's or spells' capabilities would also reveal the magic aura imprinted by the creator/caster. All the senses are tapped for perceiving these auras and I play them to be unique to styles of magic used so that the aura between an item and the spell auras of its maker match like fingerprints. Consider it an extension of the Wizard's Mark in the FR. Apprentices will have nearly identical auras to their masters until they branch out on their own and develop their own spellcasting capabilities - just like artists. The caveat is that divine magics are all immutable in their deity's symbolism that obliterate any traces of weaker casters and completely overshadow stronger ones.
Blue flame licks up the blade and black smoke billows behind the weapon's movement but harmlessly dissipates leaving the smell of brimstone and stagnant water.
A faint piping is heard of a lively melody as the helmet gives off a reddish light.
A little figure crawls amongst the tangle of crossbow bolts, leaping from one and climbing onto another. The mottled colors of brown and red splay across its sinewy body as it cavorts and cackles. The demonic features are unsettling as it glares up at you and smiles revealing sharp fangs before it dives into the bundle and disappears.
The aura is a tactile feeling of a scaly serpent coiling about and squeezing tightly in undulating waves the viewer's body when he or she gazes upon the oil.
A black field emanates from the bracers as the cords unravel and flail about the surface to reveal the baton to be a nine-tailed whip with vicious barbs at their ends. Bleeding welts appear at the edges of the bracers where the barbs "land" but appear to heal within seconds to leave no lasting damage.
The auras have nothing to do with the actual function of the items and spells so much as it reveals who are the people behind each according to their "motif." Often enough I had put great detail in the magical objects to elevate them into pieces of art with values that sometimes exceeded the "market values" of the magical enchantments. |
Make the best use of the system that's there, then modify the mechanics that don't allow you to have the fun you are looking for. |
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TKU
Learned Scribe
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2021 : 19:44:57
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| I like to give all of my magic (and even just masterwork) items their own unique descriptions. Maybe this falchion has a brass spine reinforcing its back edge, or this dagger has a cracked quartz cabochon pommel stone. Even if they aren't particularly 'special' in their enchantments little descriptors like that can add a lot to make even basic or 'mass produced' items feel distinct. Basically, I'd prefer my players not to think of their equipment in terms of a '+1 longsword' or whatever. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1501 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2021 : 04:27:05
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Deep under Eronia, Mystra keeps a small army of enslaved gnomes who are forced to crank out generic magic items to populate the dungeons of the Realms.
Only Azuth and Elminster know this, and it haunts them forever. |
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Basic Magic Item Names
