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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 01:09:08
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I have very little information about Eberron or any other work that a Warforged has appeared in so I need to ask here: has anyone read anything that referenced a God of the Warforged?
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"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 02:03:52
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Is an artificial god the Lord of Blades and his followers are creating. There is another "god" the common warforged are creating as well. So, as of yet, none of these gods exist but their followers believe they are "building" it.
https://eberron.fandom.com/wiki/The_Blades
https://eberron.fandom.com/wiki/The_Becoming_God
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Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 01 Jul 2021 02:06:05 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 02:17:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Is an artificial god the Lord of Blades and his followers are creating. There is another "god" the common warforged are creating as well. So, as of yet, none of these gods exist but their followers believe they are "building" it.
https://eberron.fandom.com/wiki/The_Blades
https://eberron.fandom.com/wiki/The_Becoming_God
Thank you. That does display the yearning that at least some Warforged have for their own deity. And what lengths some of them will go to for them to have one. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 02:42:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-In the Forgotten Realms, Gond feels right for a Warforged deity.
To use someone else's god, Gond would probably be who they would choose. But, if they want their own, they may end up with someone else. Even if it is someone they had a hand in making.
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"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 02:47:45
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Eberron does not have tangible, proven-to-exist gods; there’s the two warforged cults mentioned above, but the setting as a whole doesn’t really have gods in the Realms sense, and even among those worshiped none are gods of a specific race. I suspect those with the pull to faith might consider Onatar, god of the forge, a likely patron, but warforged are individuals, and their race is only decades old.
Gond is the likely Realms choice. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 03:29:25
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| Adding to what keftiu said, I find unlikely that the warforged of Eberron would worship any of the (in their views) human gods, given the story of their interaction with humans. That's why they decided to make their own gods. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 03:29:30
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I think there are plenty of other options, for Realms deities for warforged to follow.
Gond is an obvious one, but what about the Red Knight, Tempus, and Lathander?
Warforged were created as weapons of war, so Tempus is a natural choice -- he covers what they were literally made for.
Giving intelligence and free will to warforged means they can engage in strategy and such, so that spark of sentience could have been a gift from the Red Knight.
Of course, it could also be that the spark of sentience lets the warforged choose their own path -- it gives them a beginning, a choice of what they want to do. Hence, Lathander.
You could also toss Bane into the mix -- warforged have a lot of advantages over organics, so maybe some of them would see themselves as superior to organics and think they should subjugate them. Admittedly, this does get into Terminator territory, but it does seem a logical conclusion for a good chunk of them.
Or how about Shar? Resentful over being created as a throwaway weapon, some warforged could become nihistic and turn to her.
Maybe whatever cause that sentience to arise in warforged was just a fortuitous happenstance -- which Tymora could be said to cover.
Warforged also owe their existence to Mystra, so there's another option...
And those are just the ones I think could be the most common choices. Obviously, warforged could choose other deities, for a variety of reasons.... I've always liked the idea of a warforged druid -- the warforged realizes it is outside the natural order, and decides to devote itself to the natural order, as a result. Or maybe it's just a deep fascination with organic life that leads to that path.
Lastly, though it's not entirely relevant to this discussion, I'm obligated to mention my own Realmsified warforged: Living Constructs of the Realms: Wooly's Warforged |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 03:44:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You could also toss Bane into the mix -- warforged have a lot of advantages over organics, so maybe some of them would see themselves as superior to organics and think they should subjugate them. Admittedly, this does get into Terminator territory, but it does seem a logical conclusion for a good chunk of them.
This is basically what The Blades cult is all about. Just replace Bane with the Lord of Blades, a "living god". |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 04:19:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Adding to what keftiu said, I find unlikely that the warforged of Eberron would worship any of the (in their views) human gods, given the story of their interaction with humans. That's why they decided to make their own gods.
Oh, I disagree; I think there’s plenty of warforged Vassals (devotees of the Sovereign Host), and probably some Seekers (followers of the Blood of Vol) and believers in the Silver Flame. If the warforged can learn gender, they can learn faith - the Becoming God and the followers of the Lord of Blades are exceptions to the norm, the most radical separatists from the fleshy races. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 04:31:53
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Just a few of points I would like to make:
1. Y'all are only mentioning gods from the human pantheon. Warforged are not human. For all the gods, Moradin seemingly comes the closest. He made dwarves from stone and metal. Warforged are made of stone and metal. That is a natural connection. Maybe the entity that eventually became known as Moradin tried earlier and made Warforged but didn't like the result. They could have been discarded and then he made the dwarves and that took off (being able to reproduce on your own does have its advantages).
2. Warforged may be new on Eberron but that doesn't necessarily apply to Warforged in the Realms. Magic does exist in both worlds and chronomages existed in the past. Whose to say that a gate wasn't opened on present day Eberron that lead to the distant past in the Realms? That would give the Warforged millennia to develop their own society.
3. I can see Zeromaru X's point: why worship a human god? I see it more likely that any one they worship would reside in Mechanus. Maybe the idea of them even came from Mechanus. The people in Eberron that made them may have "stolen" the design from there or were even influenced by something they found that came from there. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 05:03:32
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
3. I can see Zeromaru X's point: why worship a human god? I see it more likely that any one they worship would reside in Mechanus. Maybe the idea of them even came from Mechanus. The people in Eberron that made them may have "stolen" the design from there or were even influenced by something they found that came from there.
Worth noting, as it’s pretty obscure lore: while the current wave of Warforged in Eberron are recent, the method of their creation is actually an ancient one, originally created by beings from the Plane of Dreams. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 05:19:23
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| There is also the fact that warforged existed in Bael Turath, an empire that existed in the ancient history of 4e Core world (aka. Nentir Vale). Which means warforged may actually be a really ancient species. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 14:40:23
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Thank you both. That is what I was hoping I would hear.
Also, the thought just occurred to me that the source of Alias' method of creation could also be the "Plane of Dreams" (that may actually be just an interpretation of an "anonymous" divine inspiration supplied while the recipient was sleeping). Food for thought. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 15:12:15
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As a dark alternative here for mostly non-eberron (but he might have some link from his abyssal realm in eberron for all we know)
Haagenti, the demon lord of alchemy and artifice is from Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss. He's very involved with constructs.
To note, this is not to be confused with the Haagenti that's in Tome of Magic as a Vestige related to Minotaurs.
In fact, perhaps the big explosion or whatever that happened in Eberron could have links to them drawing power from his domain to create warforged and it finally backfiring somehow. Living spells as "oozes" in that world versus "constructs" like they are in 3.5e FR for spellwards, it might reflect an "alchemy" thing. Maybe they were experimenting with creating living spells from lore given by Haagenti, and it involved them being "brewed" into an equivalent to heavy magic (the stuff created by Karsus). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 01 Jul 2021 16:25:12 |
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 17:35:38
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| Gond is a "human" god - although his avatar often takes the form of a gnome, and he is worshipped by gnomes. Is Gond=Nebelun? |
[/Ayrik] |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 18:03:42
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Very interesting. So far, we have the following for an inventing/engineering type of deity/power. Does anyone know of any others?
Haagenti (who according to FRWiki "was rumored to possibly be the last living construct of a race forged at the very beginning of time.")
Gond
Nebelun
Dugmaren Brightmantle
Also, given how Alias' story was that she was to be used for evil, I would suggest that it was Haagenti that inspired her construction. She just didn't turn out like he wanted. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 18:07:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Gond is a "human" god - although his avatar often takes the form of a gnome, and he is worshipped by gnomes. Is Gond=Nebelun?
According to Demihuman Deities, there is a heresy that some gnomes follow that Nebelun and Gond are actually two different entities. It also mentions that outside of the Realms, Nebelun does exist separately. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 18:45:49
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Very interesting. So far, we have the following for an inventing/engineering type of deity/power. Does anyone know of any others?
If you're counting demon lords like Haagenti, it probably isn't a flawed theory to look at their opposition in the devils. Bel (if occupying the archdevil position for Avernus) or Dispater might be viable. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 19:04:15
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Also, given how Alias' story was that she was to be used for evil, I would suggest that it was Haagenti that inspired her construction. She just didn't turn out like he wanted.
I don't know that we need to go that far afield for explaining Alias, being that we already have her origin.
Also, I'm inclined to think that a powerful, millennia-old entity known for playing with constructs wouldn't have made a construct that could so easily slip the leash. I'm also thinking that the intended uses of Alias would have been petty, by his standards. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 21:09:09
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Very interesting. So far, we have the following for an inventing/engineering type of deity/power. Does anyone know of any others?
Haagenti (who according to FRWiki "was rumored to possibly be the last living construct of a race forged at the very beginning of time.")
Gond
Nebelun
Dugmaren Brightmantle
Also, given how Alias' story was that she was to be used for evil, I would suggest that it was Haagenti that inspired her construction. She just didn't turn out like he wanted.
If you like Haagenti (I only recently discovered him in the last year or two myself), one concept I came up with was him developing a means to create a "Haagent Magen". I made it a new warlock invocation and a new artificer infusion rather than a spell that wizards learn. Its amongst a bunch of other stuff I did for Anchorome with a couple hidden cities. It's pay what you want, so you can get it for free, drop me a nickel, or whatever. I'm more using dm's guild to share my ideas, so if you like it but see an improvement, let me know.
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/352561/United-Tharchs-of-Toril--Secret-Cities--Strange-Skyships-of-Anchorome
By the way, of all my concepts for Anchorome, this is my most "odd" for what's there (i.e. the two hidden cities are highly magical, with access to portals, spelljamming, etc... and they don't interact with the locals... at least not much). One thing I've always felt is you need to put in some weird stuff in any area, just to make things different than what people expect.
Its probably one of my most thrown together projects, because I kept just adding and adding and adding to it, until I was finally like "just put it out, you can fix or add to it later". |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 23:12:54
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| I’ve always felt like the best in for Warforged in the Realms is just to reflavor the Gondsmen constructs from that one prestige class, assigning them autonomy and souls. Failing that, making them lost Imaskari artifice is really fun; the visual of some dragonborn digging up an ancient, rusted warforged is too cool to pass up. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 23:28:52
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
I’ve always felt like the best in for Warforged in the Realms is just to reflavor the Gondsmen constructs from that one prestige class, assigning them autonomy and souls. Failing that, making them lost Imaskari artifice is really fun; the visual of some dragonborn digging up an ancient, rusted warforged is too cool to pass up.
Warforged factory beneath the earth in the place in Rashemen where spellwards (i.e. living spells) are known to appear...
THE RING OF GRAY FLAMES
Raumathari ruins are usually clusters of tall towers, most of which are fallen or severely damaged. Guarded by lethal and large-scale battle-spells, some leach magic into the nearby area, creating odd effects and mutating natural creatures. Their treasures are usually spells designed to slaughter large numbers
of foes or items that augment sorcerers’ magic. One ruin,
called the Towers of Smoke by the nearby villagers, constantly
leaks a plume of deadly vapors (equivalent to a cloudkill spell)
and is said to be guarded by iron golems of many sizes.
The most famous ruin is the Ring of Gray Flames, a circle
of five narrow towers, each with a harsh gray fire burning
atop it. The flame emits only a feeble light but disrupts divine
magic brought near it. Occasionally, grinding noises can be
heard within the two intact towers. The countryside surrounding
the towers is roamed by spell wards, free-willed magical
constructs that seem to be spells given life.
So, underground factory, smoke stacks venting above, in a place where there are Vremyonni, who are notedly studying ancient Raumathar which had a penchant for constructs.... hmmm, warforged factory that got shut down? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 00:31:23
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| I am actually thinking of having an actual society for the Warforged. That would include a god or gods. Since they don't need to eat, they would obviously not need to hunt or grow anything. They would mine, naturally. The leaders may be a core group of philosophers. Each Warforged (that would not be what they call themselves) would be required to "apprentice" a new one for 10 years (it would be roughly equivalent to a squishies' childhood) so that they are more emotionally mature as a people. Just stuff like this for possible use on Osse. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 00:56:29
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
I am actually thinking of having an actual society for the Warforged. That would include a god or gods. Since they don't need to eat, they would obviously not need to hunt or grow anything. They would mine, naturally. The leaders may be a core group of philosophers. Each Warforged (that would not be what they call themselves) would be required to "apprentice" a new one for 10 years (it would be roughly equivalent to a squishies' childhood) so that they are more emotionally mature as a people. Just stuff like this for possible use on Osse.
I wouldn't rule out them hunting or growing something. Some animals and a lot of plants have uses beyond food, and if this society lives in a place where they have arable land, then agriculture can be a source of trade for them. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 01:13:44
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
I am actually thinking of having an actual society for the Warforged. That would include a god or gods. Since they don't need to eat, they would obviously not need to hunt or grow anything. They would mine, naturally. The leaders may be a core group of philosophers. Each Warforged (that would not be what they call themselves) would be required to "apprentice" a new one for 10 years (it would be roughly equivalent to a squishies' childhood) so that they are more emotionally mature as a people. Just stuff like this for possible use on Osse.
In Eberron, a few communities of them live a wasteland that's hostile to organic life. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 13:21:54
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
I am actually thinking of having an actual society for the Warforged. That would include a god or gods. Since they don't need to eat, they would obviously not need to hunt or grow anything. They would mine, naturally. The leaders may be a core group of philosophers. Each Warforged (that would not be what they call themselves) would be required to "apprentice" a new one for 10 years (it would be roughly equivalent to a squishies' childhood) so that they are more emotionally mature as a people. Just stuff like this for possible use on Osse.
Just a thought here... most warforged bodies that I've seen have a fair amount of wood in them, not just metal. So, they're not like a nimblewright or a clockwork golem or iron golem, etc... What if their bodies require a special wood, so they have to grow it.... a soulwood.
To add to this concept, take a little bit from Pinocchio.... and a little bit from dwarven lore... maybe all of these warforged work to attain mastery in crafting, so that ONE DAY, they actually make their MASTERPIECE... a child. After making a masterpiece, they may continue making masterpieces, and anyone that can make a child in the community is to be FIERCELY protected. Eventually, even a master loses his inspiration, but they continue crafting, trying to find what they've lost, in order to make a new child. But in the meantime, they teach the children that they have made.
Thus crafting to them is more than just crafting... its making life.
Maybe as they grow up, they build small constructs, alchemical concoctions, carved wood, and metalworkings, in learning how to MAKE. Their communities might have small construct pets resembling animals that they've seen, etc.... as they try to learn to immitate life. They might use the scraps shavings or "unusable bits" of the soulwood in order to practice trying to create small living things. When a warforged creates a viable small "dove" or something similar, they may realize they have the inspiration, and its time to harvest a tree and make a child.
Also, perhaps even moreso than elves... these warforged might protect their soulwood (we'd need a different name mind you) from encroachment. They might even try to keep it secret that this particular type of wood is so essential to their creation, by planting it amongst large copses of other wood (so they aren't able to grow it in huge rows like cornfields... there might only be one such tree in a square mile area or somesuch).
Meanwhile, there might be something to these trees.... maybe they have their own spirits already... just something to think on as well. If you wanted a dark twist, they might be treants, have dryads, or be a race like the volodni. Or, maybe they are taking darktrees and freeing them of their taint. You could even have some communities who only take out bad trees, but there's some communities who "take shortcuts" by getting inspiration via Haagenti the demon lord.... who requires them to use dryad or treant trees sacrificed on his altar. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 02 Jul 2021 13:34:14 |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 16:24:24
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That is a good point y'all have raised about wood. Also, there could be a nation of Warforged comprised of different city/states with at least one ruled by a Haagenti-worshipping group. Each city/state may have a different means of creating new Warforged. One thought I had was to do something similar to how the robots in the new Lost in Space series on Netflix are "created/healed": have lightning strike something and that is what takes the raw materials and transforms it into a new Warforged. There could even be a religious quality to it if there is a high priest that casts a call lightning spell to strike the metal spire that leads down to the "birthing chamber". Maybe Warforged created during a natural storm are considered special.
As for trade, maybe there is a city that is near the needed metal deposits and they trade metals to the other cities. Another could be in a fertile area for growing the wood and yet another near particular stone quarries. The richer cities would be the metal and agricultural since they can more easily produce products for trade with other races. That could create tension within the national council as the stone cities feel they are not getting their fair share of trade monies. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 17:37:09
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With the connection to Wood, some Warforged could worship Gods and Archfey connected to wood and Trees, ie Rillifane Rallathil, Relkath of the Infinite Branches, Emmantiensien, maybe also Silvanus.
Another good candidate, if more focusing on the created, artifice and alchemy aspect is the Primordial Nehushta - creator of the first Anaxim and at least a lot Genasi:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Nehushta
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Warforged factory beneath the earth in the place in Rashemen where spellwards (i.e. living spells) are known to appear...
quote:
So, underground factory, smoke stacks venting above, in a place where there are Vremyonni, who are notedly studying ancient Raumathar which had a penchant for constructs.... hmmm, warforged factory that got shut down?
This is indeed interesting, though I thiink Raumathar, could have very probably learned the secret of Warfoged creation, from the Imaskari, ho were in canon noted as very possibly first (on Toril) to create Warforged.
This also ties to Gond and Lantan - Lantan is connected to Imaskari (Lantanese is from the Imaskari language family group), and its very probable Gond, or at least Zionil originated from the Durpari pantheon. With Imaskari being descended from a group of Durpari.
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Edited by - Baltas on 02 Jul 2021 20:10:23 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 19:20:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Another good candidate, if more focusing on the created, artifice and alchemy aspect is the Primordial Nehushta - creator of the first Anaxim and at least a lot Genasi
Now that you mention this, in my campaign, the warforged are natives of Abeir, and according to their legends it was Nehusta who created them. They think the anaxim were their prototypes and they are their perfected versions. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 02 Jul 2021 20:34:25 |
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Warforged God
