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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 20:10:36
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Very interesting idea. I also thought about it, with Nehushta being also interesting, as she/they self-upgraded, modifying her body with machinery. The Warforged see themselves as made in her image.
Another interesting idea I thought of now, is thar Nehushtan could survive her seeming death, by rebuilding her remanants, or transfering her essence into a Warforged body? (Especially that canon suggests Nehushtan could survive in some way.) |
Edited by - Baltas on 02 Jul 2021 20:12:56 |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 20:22:29
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| Wow. The more lore that people bring up, it would seem the more likely that the Warforged have been around for a long time in the Realms. It is just they were hidden somewhere. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 21:08:58
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Wow. The more lore that people bring up, it would seem the more likely that the Warforged have been around for a long time in the Realms. It is just they were hidden somewhere.
Unless something changed and I didn't notice, warforged are not canon for the Realms... But me, when I wrote up my Realmsified versions, I tied them to the Narfell-Raumathar conflict from -160 DR. It's canon that the Raumathar were using constructs in that war, so it's a small step to make some of them warforged.
My idea was to only have a small number, though -- I wanted to do enough for the possibility of warforged to be there, without changing anything by having large numbers of them. And I went a different route with their animation, too -- again, partially just to keep the numbers small. I wanted the same end result -- free-willed constructs -- but something that fit into existing Realmslore.
My idea had a dozen created and animated, and a dozen more ready but not animated. Of the original dozen, nine were known to be destroyed, one thought destroyed, and the fate of the other two was unknown. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 21:33:32
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I agree with Wooly. Warforged were part of "core" D&D but weren't part of Realmslore. I wouldn't be surprised if WotC tried to retcon/shoehorn them into the Realms but I can't recall any examples of it happening.
Alias was an automaton. Technically a warforged though her story tells her origins very differently. The only deity involved in her construction was Moander - he provided access to divine magic and a "spark of life" for the construct (which would otherwise have been a "mere golem"). The wizards/liches had no arcane magic which could infuse the vessel with part of Dragonbait's soul.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Alias
It could be argued that Finder was an inspiration for Alias since he catalyzed her growth into a "real" person. He's sort of a catch-all minor power in the Realms and would make an interesting patron deity for scattered warforged orphans. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 23:28:47
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Well, there is no "exact" canon native Warforged on Toril, Dragon 371 gave several suggestion fr an origin of a Warforged in Realms. I misremembered with them being there suggested them being Imaskari constructs in origin. (The given origins are an unique artifier experiment, Lantanese construct, Red Wizard constructs, interloper, and coming from Gontal).
Curiously, the (suggested) Gontal origin does basically indirectly state the Gontal Warforged, were created by Nehushtan.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
It could be argued that Finder was an inspiration for Alias since he catalyzed her growth into a "real" person. He's sort of a catch-all minor power in the Realms and would make an interesting patron deity for scattered warforged orphans.
I actually quite love that idea!
[EDIT]
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Unless something changed and I didn't notice, warforged are not canon for the Realms... But me, when I wrote up my Realmsified versions, I tied them to the Narfell-Raumathar conflict from -160 DR. It's canon that the Raumathar were using constructs in that war, so it's a small step to make some of them warforged.
In context I agree Raumathar being he creators of Warforged on Toril fit's best, especially along with The Ring of Gray Flames mentioned by
sleyvas. (Do however quite like the idea of Abeiran Warforged, being creations of Nehushtan)
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Edited by - Baltas on 03 Jul 2021 00:33:03 |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2021 : 01:33:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I agree with Wooly. Warforged were part of "core" D&D but weren't part of Realmslore. I wouldn't be surprised if WotC tried to retcon/shoehorn them into the Realms but I can't recall any examples of it happening.
Alias was an automaton. Technically a warforged though her story tells her origins very differently. The only deity involved in her construction was Moander - he provided access to divine magic and a "spark of life" for the construct (which would otherwise have been a "mere golem"). The wizards/liches had no arcane magic which could infuse the vessel with part of Dragonbait's soul.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Alias
It could be argued that Finder was an inspiration for Alias since he catalyzed her growth into a "real" person. He's sort of a catch-all minor power in the Realms and would make an interesting patron deity for scattered warforged orphans.
Actually, there is one Warforged in FR canon lore:
"Notable Warforged
Warden, a prison warden from Eberron turned Realmspace-wandering minion of Hadar.[9]"
It is listed on the Warforged page in the FRWiki (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Warforged). I would link to his entry directly but there are parenthesis in the URL and the forums code doesn't seem to like that). |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2021 : 01:35:39
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I agree with Wooly. Warforged were part of "core" D&D but weren't part of Realmslore. I wouldn't be surprised if WotC tried to retcon/shoehorn them into the Realms but I can't recall any examples of it happening.
Alias was an automaton. Technically a warforged though her story tells her origins very differently. The only deity involved in her construction was Moander - he provided access to divine magic and a "spark of life" for the construct (which would otherwise have been a "mere golem"). The wizards/liches had no arcane magic which could infuse the vessel with part of Dragonbait's soul.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Alias
It could be argued that Finder was an inspiration for Alias since he catalyzed her growth into a "real" person. He's sort of a catch-all minor power in the Realms and would make an interesting patron deity for scattered warforged orphans.
Actually, there is one Warforged in FR canon lore:
"Notable Warforged
Warden, a prison warden from Eberron turned Realmspace-wandering minion of Hadar.[9]"
It is listed on the Warforged page in the FRWiki (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Warforged). I would link to his entry directly but there are parenthesis in the URL and the forums code doesn't seem to like that).
I don’t know how reliable a source a mobile game full of characters from different streams and podcasts is, if we want to talk canon. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2021 : 02:28:32
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| Well, WotC treat that game as canon. Remember, it is 5e. Canonicity nowadays is lighter than ever before. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 03 Jul 2021 02:29:35 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2021 : 14:54:22
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Hmmm, thinking on this, it might be fun to play with this concept with something in Anchorome. This is where Seethyr had detailed a small site in the Adusgee, and he was unintentionally doing it right near where I was putting a large (as in maybe population approaching 20 or 30 thousand, the majority of which are descendants of the gnomes whose forms had been changed or some other beings) scale group of forest and rock gnomes who had fled to Anchorome from another world.
https://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=25726&start=25
The Wood of Copper Trees is what he developed, and some rogue modrons have modeled a constructed "tree" of metal that models real trees, in that they draw solar energy, follow the sun, and they take the energy to keep themselves charged.
Where he had placed rogue modrons, I noted that those people might make very good friends with rock gnomes with a penchant for invention, and rock gnomes with a penchant for gems/crystals might be able to help with making crystals that absorb sunlight, etc...
The forest gnomes were living in some forested hills that they'd named Goelmearra in the Pagunkee Forest (itself a subset of the Adusgi/Adusgee Forest) surrounded by renuki (racoonfolk descended from gnomes who accepted the blessing of Baervan Wildwanderer ) and Bageari (badgerfolk descended from gnomes who accepted the blessing of Segojan Earthcaller) and Ee'na'li (small fox tauric folk changed from frost sprites in a different story) and half elves. More on that in this on DM's Guild, pay what you want.
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/349805/Races-of-the-Adusgi-Forest-and-Surrounding-Environs?filters=45469_0_0_0_0_0_0_0
Anyway, I was thinking that "when these gnomes were fleeing through the spirit world from their own world" maybe they meet up with the rogue modrons, and the two of them end up on Toril. The rock gnomes, having never met modrons, are fascinated by the idea of living constructs. Maybe one of them creates the a living construct using some special wood, and maybe they might hold to Nebelun as a god as a result. He might lead them away to where this special wood is to live, but then he dies.
Maybe even there has been some attempt to transplant this tree type by the rock gnomes, with no success.... but then a forest gnome working with a half-elven druid and a dryad just RECENTLY tried and WOW, they have a single tree that has taken root in Goelmearra.... the first tree of its kind to take root outside of this special far away section of the Adusgee forest where the rest of the warforged are (maybe a different name than warforged). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 03 Jul 2021 15:19:13 |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2021 : 15:57:44
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If I were to put Warforged into my Realms I would probably do it while keeping the majority of their Eberron origin, rather than parallel worlds somehow coming up with identical designs. They have a distinct Eberron feel that I wouldn’t want them to lose.
There are plane-travelling wizards enough, and ways to get to Eberron from Toril, that already exist in published Realmslore such as the World Serpent Inn. While it started in Volo’s Guide to Cormyr (I would actually be interested in knowing if it was an original creation for the Realms or something that came in around the time that TSR was doing Planescape and similar), in Dragon magazine for 3rd edition had an article detailing various extra doors and exits, one of which goes explicitly to Aundair in Eberron. Have a wizard or three, perhaps light on morals and heavy on experimentation, go sticking their nose in via the Inn, learning enough of the concept and Creation Forges over a period of several years (the Last War in Eberron went for something like a century with who knows how many Warforged built, it can’t have been impossible to get at either some dead ones for study or some productive espionage). Then they return from their overseas-study-trip and set to work replicating the concept, or even bringing some back with them. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2021 : 16:03:49
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| -There is also the Bloodforge option from Blood & Magic. I personally always liked that as my preferred theory as to introduce and include Warforged, and in that case Tempus might be a good patron, being one of the deities mentioned in that game and obviously being the god of war and all. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2021 : 17:55:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
If I were to put Warforged into my Realms I would probably do it while keeping the majority of their Eberron origin, rather than parallel worlds somehow coming up with identical designs. They have a distinct Eberron feel that I wouldn’t want them to lose.
What's wrong with the parallel worlds/identical designs thing? Most of the intelligent races in any given D&D world are identical to those on any other given D&D world, and the same applies to a very large chunk of other critters, monstrous or normal, undead or constructed. (It's partially because of all these parallels that I favor my layers of the Prime theory for the planes)
For me, the biggest issue about the Eberron background for warforged was that it involves a major war -- and there haven't been a lot of wars like that in the Realms. Certainly nothing to the scale of the Last War, which is essentially a fantasy World War I.
That's why I tied mine to the Great Conflagration. It's canon that this conflict involved constructs on one side; to me, that makes it the most obvious choice.
And free-willed constructs are already established in the Realms; at least two are from Ed's pen and very much predate Eberron.
So I personally don't see it as lifting an identical design.
My biggest change, when I wrote up the livegolems (aside from the name), was making them individually crafted instead of mass-produced. This keeps the number of them small, so we don't have warforged everywhere, and keeping the numbers small also keeps with canon, since warforged are not canon to the setting.
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2021 : 21:08:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
If I were to put Warforged into my Realms I would probably do it while keeping the majority of their Eberron origin, rather than parallel worlds somehow coming up with identical designs. They have a distinct Eberron feel that I wouldn’t want them to lose.
What's wrong with the parallel worlds/identical designs thing? Most of the intelligent races in any given D&D world are identical to those on any other given D&D world, and the same applies to a very large chunk of other critters, monstrous or normal, undead or constructed. (It's partially because of all these parallels that I favor my layers of the Prime theory for the planes)
For me, the biggest issue about the Eberron background for warforged was that it involves a major war -- and there haven't been a lot of wars like that in the Realms. Certainly nothing to the scale of the Last War, which is essentially a fantasy World War I.
That's why I tied mine to the Great Conflagration. It's canon that this conflict involved constructs on one side; to me, that makes it the most obvious choice.
And free-willed constructs are already established in the Realms; at least two are from Ed's pen and very much predate Eberron.
So I personally don't see it as lifting an identical design.
My biggest change, when I wrote up the livegolems (aside from the name), was making them individually crafted instead of mass-produced. This keeps the number of them small, so we don't have warforged everywhere, and keeping the numbers small also keeps with canon, since warforged are not canon to the setting.
I kinda agree with Wooly here: parallel development is ok since we see it in other ways. But, what if it isn't parallel development? What if Haaganti or whomever is the source of the design for all instances? It could be part of a plan that is millennia in the making where the entity behind them gets different people in different primes to make the same thing. Then, said entity, unleashes something that makes all them either worship the entity or perform some action for the entity to achieve a goal like godhood or even greater godhood.
That could make one heck of an adventure. Crossing planes to do something in each one to stop this plan from completing. That could be a grand tour of Primes, hopping from one setting to the next. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2021 : 22:23:30
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| To add to it, though people say "living constructs" are specific to warforged, we had intelligent free-willed constructs prior to the warforged. When it comes to making "warforged", I know I'm not totally sold on making them look exactly the same. Ruleswise, I don't think there's anything particularly special about the "rules" on warforged is there (that's a real question... I honestly think they're pretty plain jane, but I haven't looked). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2021 : 23:57:32
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I wonder if clones could fall under the purview of "constructs". Manshoon, et al.
I suppose not, though, since they are effectively just copies of "living" people. No special rules applying to their biology/etc. (There are some special rules, but they seem to be related more to consequences of the magical cloning process than to "artificial" substitutes for life.) |
[/Ayrik] |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2021 : 00:01:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltasquote:
It could be argued that Finder was an inspiration for Alias since he catalyzed her growth into a "real" person. He's sort of a catch-all minor power in the Realms and would make an interesting patron deity for scattered warforged orphans.
I actually quite love that idea!
Finder did dedicate himself entirely towards the construction of an artificial duplicate. His life, his art, his magic, even his identity. Seems like a plausible foundation for his claim to this divine portfolio. Though it might introduce some complications in relationships between such "adopted" warforged and Harpers/Chosen. And it pulls away from the usual expectations of warforged creations being the products of invention, engineering, science, and technology - it suggests they are more akin to living works of creative (and performance) art. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 04 Jul 2021 00:06:41 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2021 : 01:30:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I wonder if clones could fall under the purview of "constructs". Manshoon, et al.
I suppose not, though, since they are effectively just copies of "living" people. No special rules applying to their biology/etc. (There are some special rules, but they seem to be related more to consequences of the magical cloning process than to "artificial" substitutes for life.)
I would say no, because they don't have their own soul. Now the SPECIAL case of Manshoon where his soul was essentially duplicated multiple times would make his case something different (which I've used this as a special case for other purposes to show that magic can duplicate souls).
Your statements though on Alias, I definitely agree. She was a living construct. There were others though prior to warforged that were at least free willed. Inevitables and Maug were in the fiend folio for instance. and Maug have a very similar back story to warforged. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2021 : 02:06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
To add to it, though people say "living constructs" are specific to warforged, we had intelligent free-willed constructs prior to the warforged. When it comes to making "warforged", I know I'm not totally sold on making them look exactly the same. Ruleswise, I don't think there's anything particularly special about the "rules" on warforged is there (that's a real question... I honestly think they're pretty plain jane, but I haven't looked).
Living constructs differ from the standard ones you’d expect in that they have souls and free will, and that parts of their construction are “alive” with living wood or pumping alchemical fluids. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2021 : 05:03:04
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What is the difference between a living construct and a flesh golem?
Yes, a flesh golem is semi-intelligent. But I suppose some warforged must fall on the low end of the intelligence spectrum, too, by design or by random ability score generation.
Yes, a flesh golem is said to be animated by some sort of soul or spirit. But details about this have been vague in every edition - at best, it's assumed to be some sort of wandering anima summoned into the vessel from a nearby inner plane - at worst, it's a nightmarish and evil monster created through Ravenloft lore. A reincarnation spell was once required to manufacture these golems, suggestive of even more interesting (and disturbing) possibilities.
Yes, a flesh golem seems to lack free will, it will follow commands with a certain kind of cunning but otherwise lacks any apparent volition, it is magically bound to obey the commands of its creator. But how is this different from the original fate of magical enslavement planned for Alias? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 04 Jul 2021 05:12:22 |
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
216 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2021 : 18:26:57
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Warforged and flesh golems serve different narrativic purposes. One is sci-fi, the other is horror. One challenges our understanding of what it means to be human, while the other elicits a visceral response of horror and disgust. One stretches a definition, while the other mocks it. The flesh golem is the D&D equivalent of Diogenes holding up a plucked chicken and declaring, "Behold! I give you a man."
Also, I don't know if it's codified anywhere, but I would say that Warforged have souls, while flesh golems do not. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2021 : 20:37:35
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
To add to it, though people say "living constructs" are specific to warforged, we had intelligent free-willed constructs prior to the warforged. When it comes to making "warforged", I know I'm not totally sold on making them look exactly the same. Ruleswise, I don't think there's anything particularly special about the "rules" on warforged is there (that's a real question... I honestly think they're pretty plain jane, but I haven't looked).
Living constructs differ from the standard ones you’d expect in that they have souls and free will, and that parts of their construction are “alive” with living wood or pumping alchemical fluids.
Alias was a living being as well, and a construct. She had a soul (granted, it involved tearing a bit of the soul from Dragonbait, but what do we know of warforged soul creation.... it might have been similar). The big difference is she was a construct that didn't look like a robot, but she was created maybe 20 years before warforged. There were also beings like Jhingleshod.. created when the rules were less well formed, but he was essentially animated armor with free will because he was formed using the soul of a living being.
There are also lots of free-willed constructs as well, who while soulless could still be used by players if they wanted (in their cases though stuff like resurrection would fail in theory).
But rulewise, I guess the only things that specifically are different is in terms of raise dead... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2021 : 21:04:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And free-willed constructs are already established in the Realms; at least two are from Ed's pen and very much predate Eberron.
I have no problem with different types of living construct, since there are various ones scattered about and all with a distinct flair that separates them from other living constructs: Mystara’s Magen (now in Forgotten Realms as a Netherese development, albeit not exactly free but at least able to think for themselves), Alias, another Rime of the Frostmaiden thing with a Netherese artifact that can turn a simulacrum into a real person, and so on and so forth. Warforged specifically - their visual design and internal elements, the spark of life drawn through a Creation Forge, and their history as effective slave troops designed to fight a war now seeking a path and life of their own - are something for which I prefer their Eberron feel and appearance to porting them to the Realms. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2021 : 01:29:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
Warforged specifically - their visual design and internal elements, the spark of life drawn through a Creation Forge, and their history as effective slave troops designed to fight a war now seeking a path and life of their own - are something for which I prefer their Eberron feel and appearance to porting them to the Realms.
So what if you take the Creation Forge and slave troop parts out of the equation? |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2021 : 15:29:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So what if you take the Creation Forge and slave troop parts out of the equation?
Then they wouldn't be Warforged, since taking away their history is also taking away the source of things as basic as their name. It would be a robot-golem statblock and artwork for ad hoc DM application, which has some uses mechanically but also nothing that I can't also do using other statblocks. I personally would have no particular use for it. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2021 : 16:44:31
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If you're looking for ideas on how to adapt the Warforged background to an existing world, I suggest reading "Playing Warforged" (Dragon 364). There they have how the Warforged were created in another world (and they still have Creation Forges).
What do you need is a big war and a nation with advanced magic. Perhaps Warforged were created in Halruaa or by rogue halruaans, to be tools of war. This is the big difference between warforged and, dunno, Alias.
Warforged were created that way to be mass produced. Alias may be more powerful individually, and pretty looking, but she is expensive to mass produce (if that is even possible). Warforged are cheaper, you can create hundreds with the same resources you create a single Alias, and have less organic parts, meaning they are better suited for combat. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 05 Jul 2021 16:46:41 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2021 : 18:08:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So what if you take the Creation Forge and slave troop parts out of the equation?
Then they wouldn't be Warforged, since taking away their history is also taking away the source of things as basic as their name. It would be a robot-golem statblock and artwork for ad hoc DM application, which has some uses mechanically but also nothing that I can't also do using other statblocks. I personally would have no particular use for it.
So even if they were created for war, they're not warforged without the Creation Forge? |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2021 : 18:43:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So even if they were created for war, they're not warforged without the Creation Forge?
Things not made in a forge are generally not considered forged. Non-semantically, no I would not consider them Warforged. I don't consider Magen to be Warforged either, and those can easily be made and used as an "army of living constructs created for war" without any need to customise a statblock. The Creation Forge in context with Warforged as I see it represents certain things for Eberron history: industrialisation in the mass production and automation of weapons (which the Warforged were seen as, automated weapons/slave troops), and then the application of that to a world war. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
Edited by - Eldacar on 05 Jul 2021 18:47:00 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2021 : 00:21:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
If you're looking for ideas on how to adapt the Warforged background to an existing world, I suggest reading "Playing Warforged" (Dragon 364). There they have how the Warforged were created in another world (and they still have Creation Forges).
What do you need is a big war and a nation with advanced magic. Perhaps Warforged were created in Halruaa or by rogue halruaans, to be tools of war. This is the big difference between warforged and, dunno, Alias.
Warforged were created that way to be mass produced. Alias may be more powerful individually, and pretty looking, but she is expensive to mass produce (if that is even possible). Warforged are cheaper, you can create hundreds with the same resources you create a single Alias, and have less organic parts, meaning they are better suited for combat.
Bear in mind, Alias WAS mass produced. We don't know how many were made. That being said, it was nowhere near the scale of the warforged. Just mentioning it, because she's "not unique" per se. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2021 : 00:23:31
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| Lol, this is sad, until you said Magen, I totally forgot that I had already created a new type of magen that was free willed (granted, being occupied by a soul from the past that had been captured in a crystal cavern along with thousands of others as a result of a mishap)... so yeah, that's another kind of living construct. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2021 : 01:48:40
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Bear in mind, Alias WAS mass produced. We don't know how many were made. That being said, it was nowhere near the scale of the warforged. Just mentioning it, because she's "not unique" per se.
I know, her sisters. But, as you said, her mass production was limited. I don't think there are even 100 Alias out there, and I'm being optimist. While warforged are mass produced at industrial levels, and there are thousands of them, even after the losses of the Last War.
And Alias' mass production was "expensive". As in, you need a lot of "unique stuff" to make an Alias. Like, even a god (Moander) was involved in the creation of Alias and her sisters. While the warforged don't need a god blessing, just the ingenuity of a bunch of wizards and artificers.
Also, aren't magen "non-living" magical constructs? |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 06 Jul 2021 01:50:24 |
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Warforged God
