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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2020 : 13:12:27

Next up is Cormyr. I don't anticipate I will be altering Cormyr much at all, just cataloguing all the lore in one place and developing a few bits further.

First up was Hermits Wood.
Anyone have any idea who the hermit might be. I was thinking perhaps the ghost of one of the ahast mages or perhaps an aged elf. I think amedahast or thunderahast might have died about the time of azoun II

He doesnt have to be evil, the presence of a ghost should be enough to frighten away most sentient beings.

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36812 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2020 : 17:13:37

Why only one hermit?

And if it is only one, why a humanoid? It could be some exotic critter.

It could also be that it didn't originally refer to a hermit. Maybe, long ago, the archmage or powerful druid Haermet lived in and protected the area, so it was known as Haermet's Wood. Over time, this became Hermit's Wood.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2020 : 18:41:27

Well the text for hermit wood indicates that a hermit used to live here during the time of azoun II. It also indicates he may have died some time ago.
Reports say that a spirit now inhabits the wood, he is grey robed and carries a lantern that emits an eerie blue light.

I see no reason why it couldn't be more than one thing causing the spirit.

Early in cormyr history the elves attacked marsember and it makes sense for them to have come from the hermits wood (which would have been joined to the hullack forest then. So it's possible the hermits wood used to be home to anti human elves.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2020 : 19:33:07

Up next is Hullack Forest.

So i reckon this was part of the elf realm of Orva. It fell to some fiendish influenced magics and was buried by elf magic and the forces of Cormanthyr.

Iliphar Nelnueve is gifted the Lythtlorn for himself. In the eastern section he builds Tethgard to act as a gateway to the Lythtlorn, and as a neutral meeting place for elves that disliked each other and disliked or liked humans in different measure (i wonder if elves here were from the fallen forests in Anauroch and Cormanthyr and Shantel Othreier, so they were quite different).

The question is, are the ruins of Tethgard the same as the Elfhold. Tethgard was built atop the Wyvernstones and it looks like the Wyvernstones were built to guard some nasty magic from Orva. I cant imagine why Iliphar would build another castle in Hullack, but Elfhold could be an old Orva ruin if it is indeed a different place.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2020 : 09:36:27

I decided that tethgard, the wyvernstones and the elf hold were all linked (tethgard was the castle, elfhold the basement, and the wyvernstones erected later around both).

Here's what I have so far. I need to add in the new malar group and the layla maurshanta that operate in hullack forest.

Hullack Forest: Hullack Forest is named for the Great Druid Hullack of the Wyvernwater Circle (part of the greater Druid Ring of Cormanthor), who led the circle around 200 years ago and was known as a firm elf friend and ally of the former nation of Esparrin (now annexed into Cormyr). They Wyvernwater Circle began to diminish following the disastrous confrontation with a hive of beholders around 1100 DR, and since that time the Hullack Forest has been logged back from the northern shores of the Wyvernwater (where it used to join the King's Forest).

Hullack Forest was once joined to the King's Forest on the northern and southern shores of the Wyvernwater. It was separated from the northern portion of the King's Forest in 1018 DR when the Flight of Dragons caused several of those creatures to attack Arabel and set miles of the forest alight. Its southern edge was separated much earlier as part of Cormyr's expansion along the Coast Lands.

The current remnants of the Hullack Forest have been left virtually unharmed in over a century for the primary reason that it is full of goblinoids, monsters, and much worse. This portion of the Hullack Forest is the centre of what was the traditional lands of House Amaratharr that acted as wardens of the woodlands of Cormyr long ago under the watchful gaze of Thauglorimorgorus. The elves of the Lythtlorn have long since departed, but some of their legacies still linger.

The Hullack Forest is home to many ruins, the most famous of which are Tethgard and the Wyvernstones, but many other fell ruins remain amid the trees and occasionally disgorge powerful magic and creatures to slaughter the unwary forester or traveller.

Elfhold: This chamber is one of many storage vaults and chambers hidden beneath the Hullack Forest and the surrounding eastern edge of Cormry, some of which are connected by hidden tunnels and passageways that are rumoured to stretch as far as the Vast Swamp.

Elfhold was once the burial ground of House Amaratharr and later used by Iliphar Nelnueve to store the most dangerous of magical legacies from the vanquished realm of Orva. It is believed the Witch Lords of the Vast Swamp learned much of their most powerful magics from the fell items they plundered from the Elfhold.

The main chamber of Elfhold is a half ellipse, 100 ft in diameter and 30 ft in height, with the ceiling held up by the massive Wyvernstones above which� extend down to the floor. Between each of the pillars is the entrance to a crypt carved into the wall and sealed with an elaborate capstone (each carved to depict a scene important to the life of the elven family interred within). Some of the crypts have clearly been resealed by magic, the cracks in the capstones still visible.

In the centre of the main chamber is a 20 ft pool of crystal clear water (consecrated to Eldath by Hullack himself) with a tiny diamond floating above the pool. The diamond is the tel'kiira of House Amaratharr, it is reluctant to communicate with anyone other than descendants of House Amaratharr. Upon Hullack's untimely death, he was interred in the Elfhold below by the Wyvernwater Circle, and his spirit now protects the crypts and communicates with the sentience's stored within the tel'kiira of House Amaratharr.

The Elfhold is believed to be connected to many other underground chambers beneath Hullack Forest, many of the sealed crypts have secret doors and tunnels or have been opened by creatures digging from below. It is thought the dragon attack upon Tethgard weakened the wards of Iliphar Nelnueve enough to allow the Witch Lords to open up tunnels to retrieve the lost legacies of the elves of Orva. The Xraunrarr beholder later used these tunnels to reach the surface and establish their own territory in Cormyr before Hullack defeated the beholders and resealed the crypts.

Tethgard: Tethgard was erected by Iliphar Nelnueve (his title was Korra, roughly translating as Warden, he was known as the Warden of the Wolf Woods) in -513 DR which he granted to a Netherese Arcanist and her family. Ostensibly the castle was created to guard the entrance to the Lythtlorn from the failing lands of Netheril, and to act as a neutral area for feuding elves to meet.

In reality Tethgard protected the greatest secrets of fallen Orva, and acted as an obvious bait and magically powerful trap for Thauglorimorgorus who was becoming more aggressive against the elves in his territory.

Tethgard was abandoned (forcibly - the elves drove out Lady Duskreene's family and courtiers) when Lady Duskreene died in -233 DR. It was reclaimed by the forest and gradually fell into ruin until dragons destroyed the castle in 163 DR.

Tethgard survives today as a few scattered stones, low walls that run through the trees, and a leaf choked pit or two that provide access to the partially collapsed cellars (and the only known and well hidden and guarded entrance to the Elfhold). These ruins lie within a few hundred metres of the Wyvernstones, but the forests are so dense and the ruins themselves are so innocuous that many ignore them or think them an extension of the Wyvernstones.

The ruins of Tethgard are administered by Lady Duskreene who still exists as a watchghost tied to the ruins by the very wards designed to seal the evils hidden in the Elfhold below, indeed any bodies interred in or around Tethgard and Elfhold causes the soul to remain tied to the Material Plane as a spirit of some sort, unable to escape to the Ethereal and onto the Outer Planes.

Wyvernstones: The Wyvernstones of Hullack are a collection of stones 12 ft high and 6 ft in diameter that form a 60 diameter circle of menhirs with trilithons at the compass points (allow the capstone of the southern point has been shattered). The Wyvernstones are truly enormous and stretch to 100 ft below the surface (where they are 12 ft in diameter at the base), and form the vaulted pillars of the Elfhold that secretly lies beneath.

The Wyvernstones were once the site of a titanic battle between a hive of beholders and the Wyvernwater Circle of druids led by the Great Druid Hullack. The druids were losing badly and most of their number were slain until the beholders and their allies became suddenly docile and confused (and then were easily destroyed). Hullack caused the Wyvernstones to rise from the ground to mark the battleground and to seal the entrance to Elfhold that the beholders had opened.

Today the Wyvernwater Circle is all but disbanded, and the secrets of their members are hidden, but not lost. The Wyvernstones are marked with runes written in an ancient script (Hamarfae), and contain the sentiences of powerful druids of the Circle that can still be communed with (stone tell or other spells and abilities). Hullack himself still persists as a ghost that is trapped within the Elfhold below.

Regardless of its more modern function (the Wyvernwater Circle used it as a Faerie Crossroads), the Wyvernstones were originally created as a large gate to the Outer Planes that actually connected to the Abyss. The High Mages of Cormanthyr, along with Iliphar Nelnueve, moved the stones from the Vast Swamp where they were originally used to the Lythtlorn, then magically sealed and buried the gate. Hullack later called the stones of the gate to erupt from the ground (unaware of their true nature) to help seal the tunnels opened up by the Xraunrarr beholders. As the magic of the druids begins to fail, rumours of fell creatures in the Hullack are starting to emerge, it may be that the gate is starting to function as originally intended once more.

Edited by - Gary Dallison on 02 Feb 2020 14:39:55

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2020 : 12:56:24

A few thoughts about cormyrian development and expansion.

Suzail is found a bit prior to 26 DR.
Marsember appears to have been founded much earlier, presumably by refugees fleeing the fall of jhaamdath (perhaps the elves in cormyr were from nikerymath which might explain their hatred of the humans).

I'm assuming at this point that expansion was hampered by the forest and the elves that lived within. So settlements would be established along the coast lands first.

However in 198 DR Rallyhorn is renamed to Hultail. Hultail is situated on the banks of the wyvernwater.

Now Rallyhorn was named after the noble house of Rallyhorn. It looks like the nation of cormyr, which was tiny then, probably allowed families to establish their own farms and made them noble lords.

The rallyhorns and many others probably followed the rivers and settled on their banks and around the wyvernwater first because the forest of lythtlorn then stretched from the kings forest to hullack on both sides of the wyvernwater and was home to elves.

That means Arabel and the far northern settlements may have been established much later (esparrin was a nation in 1020 DR and that implies the land was relatively unsettled at that time although it was nominally claimed by cormyr).

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6669 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2020 : 11:08:08

Cormyr: A Novel states that Arabel is founded as a logging encampment in c. 76 DR (hardcover, p.188).

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2020 : 11:13:49

That's a pain, i suppose expansion could have been fairly rapid with settlers heading off in all directions and those that survived being ennobled. Thankfully arabel is also along a river so I guess they must have set off along the rivers and founded settlements along the banks.

Kind of explains why the elves attacked marsember then, the cormyrians did not stick to the coast as was agreed with iliphar nelnueve.

Also noticed in four from cormyr that the gate in orva was actually in the vast swamp and a backlash from minauros created the swamp.
I think I will have the elves dig up the gate and move it to tethgard and the elfhold for better protection (beneath the burial chambers of house amaratharr).

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2020 : 14:46:11

Vast Swamp is up next, i realise much of the Witch Lords are NDA but i'm making a start with what i have. Focusing first on Orva.

Rather than making Orva a kingdom, its size seems more like it is a single elf house with delusions of grandeur and tyranny. House Orva sounds fairly elfin.

And rather than make the "laranlor" evil, i figure he was just stupid, communicating with planar powers, not realising that a baatezu was manipulating him and his High Mages.

The Vast Swamp has had a lot of things happen. The Orva creating the swamp around -600 DR. The Witch Lords retreating their (i'm not certain they held it as part of their attempted kingdom, but i havent read the Cormyr: a Novel, yet).
The Dusk Lord fled here and vanished (1232 DR). The Harper King Thavverdasz lived in a cave on the edge of the Vast Swamp 1222 DR.
The Men of the Basilisk were formed here (1247 DR) The Sword Heralds made a hidden refuge here (that the would be Men of the Basilisk discovered).

The Vast Swamp: This swampland acts as the border between Cormyr and Sembia, with neither country laying claim to it. It is a land of spongy, waterlogged ground, with sickly looking underbrush and as one ventures further into the swamp; an increasingly dense covering of ancient and twisted trees.

Orvaskyte Keep: Centuries before the founding of Cormyr, the Vast Swamp was once dense woodland and part of the Lythtlorn, it was also claimed by the xenophobic elves of House Orva, who kept all intruders out of their lands (especially humanity), and their head (who claimed the title of Laranlor) was bargaining with Outer Planar beings to gain enough power to eliminate the encroaching humans entirely.

Orvaskyte Keep as it is now know was a modest castle built in homage to Castle Cormanthor. It was the ancestral home for House Orva and their centre of power, it was also the site for a magical gate that the Laranlor of Orva began construction of under the instruction of his planar ally (that he believed a servant of Corellon Larethian but was in actual fact a baatezu).

The High Mages of House Orva unknowingly connected the gate to a counterpart on the Plane of Minauros. When both gates were opened the High Mages and most of the senior members of House Orva were sucked into Baator, while a significant portion of that swampy hell was unleashed upon the Material Plane. The forces of Cormanthyr (at the request of Iliphar Nelnueve) closed and removed the gate, but the Vast Swamp has been a hellish marshland ever since that has been slowly growing in size.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2020 : 19:49:57

A few random thoughts about the Witch Lords.

They are necromancers it would seem, one of whom was the Witch Duke (although there are multiple surviving Witch Dukes 4 liches and 2 demiliches), who possessed the Wyvern Crown.

The Wyvern Crown causes the possessor to become a tyrannical megalomaniac and able to control a flight of wyverns to do his bidding.

Then there is the Wyvernspur, a preserved wyvern's claw that allows the possessor to transform into a wyvern.

The Witch Lords ruled the lands around Wyvernwater Lake. They were defeated in battle and pushed back to the Vast Swamp. I can find no indication that they were all found and defeated, although it is said that the King killed the Witch Duke and took the Crown of the Wyvern from him, but this doesnt say if it was before the battle in Cormyr: a Novel or after it (i'd say before as the Witch Lord army used bats in the battle and not wyverns so they may not have had that ability).

Now in Elminster's Ecologies it says that the elven ruins are full of magical artefacts including ornate crowns.

Furthermore what information i've found about Orva is that their ruler was or became a tyrannical megalomaniac.

And last of all, there is a hint that in Orva they worshipped an aspect of Labelas known as Chronus Kronus, or Karonis (i realise George has explained the presence of one of the names - the tomb of Alithar Chonis - but i'm going to use Karonis for another explanation).

So i'm thinking the Laranlor of Orva was in contact with a pit fiend called Karonis (who had psionic powers and an enlarged head). They also created the Wyvern Crown and Wyvernspur for a potential future war with Thauglor and his dragons.

Karonis gets the elves of Orva to build a gate to his lair on Minauros, it transports him to Faerun and the elves to Baator, and creates the Vast Swamp.

The Witch Lords discover the Wyvern Crown (and perhaps the Wyvernspur) in the Vast Swamp. They quickly establish their own realm and try to conquer Cormyr (but lose).

Karonis (known as the Imperator) meanwhile is hidden in the Vast Swamp with a tribe of fiendish grell as his servants, perhaps trapped by the magic of the elves of Cormanthyr or perhaps they never discovered his presence.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2020 : 16:45:33

Anyone know if the crown of faerlthann is still around in cormyr.

The reason I ask is that when cormyr fights the witchlords and the elves turn up, they both indicate there is some power in the king and the elven leader but when talking about the elf it specifically mentions his brow (head) so I'm thinking the crown holds some way to tap into the special weave in cormyr.

Now the crown of faerlthann is elven made so it might explain why so the early kings of cormyr were powerful and long lived (and sometimes a bit mad).

I could have sworn I read about one of the kings losing his crown but I cant remember where (I don't think its rhiigards crown that was lost with princess alicia, but it might be).

Also Crypt of Dragons near Hilp, that seems rather significant. Did thauglor use it to transfer his consciousness into (a body hopping dragon would be cool) or is it to do with vangerdahast and his replacement for the lords who sleep or the mages regal

Edited by - Gary Dallison on 05 Feb 2020 16:46:33

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2020 : 10:28:03

Noted that orphans are considered wards of the Crown until another ward can be found.

So i figured there would be a position of state for that, with a title "Warden of the Lost" given as a reward to nobility (or not depending upon the ruler). The Warden of the Lost is tasked with finding wards for all orphans (preference given to those children whose parents died in service to the Realm). A monthly stiped would be received by the Warden of the Lost as is usual for court titles.

Local temples take in several wards each year, hoping that these wards will grow up to become priests of their faith. Otherwise local childless couples (or nobles perhaps trying to appear charitable) would be paid a one time award to take the child as a ward.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2020 : 20:56:45

So Daunthers is used to house those Purple and Blue Dragons disabled in the line of duty.

And Thulser's Lodge is used to keep those afflicted with incurable diseases in the line of duty.

I figure both groups could be called into battle again if needed.

So the infirm at Daunthers are deployed as the Grey Dragons and often given the rearguard or defend positions far from the battlefront.

While the diseased are deployed as the Green Dragons and volunteer for suicide missions or to charge in the vanguard.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2020 : 21:00:45

Looking at Espar again.

Still fairly certain that Esparin was founded in the wake of a migration of people from the Western Heartlands coming through High Horn Pass in the Year of the Dracorage (1018 DR).

That gives enough time for Espar to be founded as a settlement in north eastern Cormyr and for Elminster to select the Wanderers of Espar to refound the Harpers.

As Esparin grows Arabel secedes from Cormyr (emboldened perhaps by the rebel state) and is later reconquered in 1050 DR by Azoun II.

It says that King Proster ignored Espar in one of Ed's quotes, but King Baerovus gave battle to them at every opportunity. I figure it is during King Baerovus' time that the capital of Esparin (i guess it was near Arabel) was razed by Baerovus and his army. 1135 DR is the Year of the Petulant Dragon and seems like a good named date in Baerovus' reign.

Then the capital of Esparin is moved to Yerespar (renamed Espar) in time for Palaghard to wed Enchara.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 13 Feb 2020 : 20:57:18

Given that Cormyr is one of the most lawful nations in Faerun, its laws are surprisingly undocumented. I've been making an attempt to find and organise all references to elements of law and order.

I know there is a lot more information out there on this topic but its a start.

The Royal Word

The Royal Word are those laws set by the King that are unalterable except by decree from the King himself (or the Royal Magician)

Commoners must bow their heads in the presence of royalty (Minor).
Visitors must bow their heads in the presence of a Local Lord (Minor).
Non-military personnel must carry all weapons openly and those weapons must be tied by "peace strings". Bearing arms is only allowed by those possessing a Charter of Arms, or a Weapons Licence (Medium).
Everyone must comply to a stop and search request delivered by military personnel (Medium).
Foreign currency may only be traded by those with a Currency Trading Licence (Minor).
Hunting in the King's Forest may only be performed by those with a Hunting Licence (Minor).
Hunting of deer in the King's Forest may only be performed by those with a Stag Hunting Licence (Medium).
Offences against the Dragon, this applies to all improper depictions of any King or Queen of Cormyr. Lewd, immoral, evil depictions are all classed as improper, and the medium can be anything including literature, paint, sculpture, etc (Minor).
It is forbidden to unleash magic within the confines of the village known as the Mouth o' Gargoyles (Severe).
The searching of the magical refuges of the Sword Heralds by the Crown or its agents is strictly prohibited (Capital).
Possession of banned substances without a Passage Licence is strictly prohibited (Severe).
The damming or restriction of water-courses is strictly prohibited except for individuals possessing a Water Management Licence.

Court Law

For all disputes and grievances not covered by Crown Law (or in the event of disputes by nobles against Crown Law), Cormyr has created a system known as Court Law.

Court is a formal process whereby one or both parties in the dispute bring the details to the Local Lord of a settlement to adjudicate (with assistance from court magistrates to interpret existing Court and Crown Law). Any decisions made as a result of Court Law are catalogued by the Lord Magistrate (actually his assistants) and stored in the cellars of the Royal Court.

Any appeals against Court Law decisions (a privilege allowed only by nobles or with Crown approval) are taken to the Royal Court in Suzail to be heard by a jury of peers.

Despite Court Law being a separate process to Crown Law, the Local Lords often adjudicate the application of both Crown and Court Law, and decide all punishments.

Punishment

Crown Law is strictly stratified into a range of severity for individual offences; Minor, Medium, Severe, Capital

Minor offences are punished with fines, confiscation of property, and more rarely with imprisonment for up to 1 day.

Medium offences are punished with loss of licences, confiscation of wealth and property (in punitive proportions) and imprisonment for up to a year

Severe offences are punished with maiming, hard labour for up to 5 years, confiscation of all wealth and property, loss of titles.

Capital offences are usually punished with death, but this can be mitigated to exile or a lifetime of hard labour or in very rare cases the amputation of all limbs (including eyes, ears, and tongue).

Repeat offences can result in punishment being applied at the next level of severity, at the discretion of the Local Lord

Licences

Crown Law forbids many activities in a blanket ban that applies to all (hunting, bearing of arms, selling weapons, trading in foreign currency, etc. The Crown gathers a substantial source of revenue from the sale of licences that allow individuals or organisations exemption from specific Crown Laws.

Charter of Arms: This licence is otherwise known as the Adventurer's Charter, for it allows an individual or small group of individuals as named on the charter, to bear arms and operate within the boundaries of Cormyr without fear of prosecution.

Currency Trading Licence: Allows the individual or organisation (and those employees of that organisation) to trade specified foreign currencies with foreign nationals that are believed to be in Cormyr on a temporary basis (merchants and caravans, etc).

Hunting Licence: Allows the individual or group of individuals to hunt a quota of small animals (excluding deer, stag, and all exotic beasts), within the confines of the King's Forest for a defined period of time as specified on the licence. These licences are often granted to entire settlements laying within the confines of the King's Forest, allowing all residents of said settlement to hunt a reasonable number of animals (to provide sustenance) for an indefinite period of time. Licences can otherwise be bought by those wishing to go on hunting expeditions into the forest.

Land Licence: Allows the named individual or group of individuals or organisation to own a specified area of land for a defined period of time. These licences can be hereditary (but usually not) and the terms of inheritance are strictly defined (patri or matrilineal, primo or ultimogeniture).

Logging Licence: Allows the individual to fell a specified number of trees from a specified area within the King's Forest.

Marriage Licence: Allows the named individuals to form a cooperative partnership including the equal sharing of assets and responsibility.

Passage Licence: Allows the individual or organisation (and those employees of that organisation) to transport banned or controlled items (as specified by the licence and including things like poison, dangerous animals, weapons, foreign currency, smoke powder, etc). All items must be transported in secured containers. The licence specifies the number of containers allowed to be transported by the licence, and the place of origin and place of destination. This licence is typically issued from the place of origin and destroyed by officials at the place of destination (after an inspection to ensure the terms of the licence have been complied with).

Smithing Licence:�Allows the individual or organisation (and those employees of that organisation) to produce manufactured goods from base metals. The licence specifies the types of goods permitted to be manufactured (i.e. decorative, miscellaneous, arms and armour, etc).

Stag Hunting Licence: Allows the named individual to hunt a defined number of deer and stag (including pregnant and young deer) within the confines of the King's Forest for a defined period of time as specified on the licence. Licence costs range from 10,000 to 100,000 gold pieces at a rate of 1,000 gold pieces per day.

Trade Fair Licence: Allows the individual access to a trade fair. Typically issued at the site of entry to an official Trade Fair and costs vary from 1 copper piece to 1 silver piece (for those trade fairs in Suzail).

Water Management Licence: Allows the named individual or organisation (and those employees of that organisation) to modify waterways, including damming, redirection, and restriction. These licences are typically required for those wishing to operate a mill.

Weapons Licence: Allows the named individual or organisation (and those employees of that organisation) to bear arms within a specified location or locations for the purposes of selling those arms to customers providing said customers are in possession of a Charter of Arms or are representatives of the Crown.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 13 Feb 2020 : 22:08:58

Oh and just found reference to the Diadem of Iliphar that King Keldroun wore during the Thronestrife period. I can only assume this is the same as the Crown of Faerlthann. Perhaps the crown was lost during the thronestrife.

Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
955 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2020 : 02:50:56

Well, something curious about not only Cormyr - but also Sembia and Dales - but it does seem a large part of the population of the three (and not only Dales), migrated from the Great Dale, or at least speak a language derived from there. As it's noted all three nations speak Cormanthan, which in turn is derived from Auld Cormanthan - the language of the Great Dale.

(Source: Dragon Annual 4, "Speaking in Tongues")

It is a bit confusing though, as the term "Cormanthan" suggests Cormanthan is named after Cormanthyr. It is is possible thought the name "Auld Cormathan" is retroactive - applied to the language of the Great Dale, after it's language descendant/cousin was named Cormathan.

Edited by - Baltas on 16 Feb 2020 03:45:02

ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
2067 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2020 : 03:46:09

I think the way to imagine the population flow is that the Jhaamdathans migrated north to what is now Sembia and what is now Impiltur. From there they went north to the Moonsea and to Damara, respectively. The languages should follow suit.

I always thought it was a real mistake to call the language Damaran, when the 3e Realms campaign guide trimmed down Tom's opus.

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
955 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2020 : 04:58:19

Hmm, so I understand there wasn't much migration from the Great Dale to Dalelands, Sembia and Cormyr? Or I guess maybe only not to Cormyr and Sembia.

Or did the the "Cormanthan" language form in Impiltur (and surrounding it areas), but got overtime replaced by Easting in Impiltur, and the Vast?

Edited by - Baltas on 16 Feb 2020 05:07:12

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2020 : 08:35:19

I'm sure George has a much better explanation but I would imagine that the source of origin for the language is impiltur (George already has a nice explanation for why the language is called Damaran).

Chondathans migrate to impiltur after the fall of jhaamdath (a few also migrate to cormyr around marsember). The obarskyrs move from impiltur to cormyr and migrations follow later when impiltur falls to the scaled horde. Impilturans also migrate to the great dale when Beldred leads his great scouring through the region.

Now if you wanted a migration from the great dale to cormyr it would likely happen around the same time as the fall of impiltur in 720s because the fiends erupted out of demon cysts in the great dale and so would have displaced a lot of people.

The naming of the dialect as Cormanthan and Auld Cormanthan is probably due to some sage who was from Cormyr or the Dale's and so named his own language after the place he lived.

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6669 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2020 : 15:06:09

I love Tom to death but describing the language of the Great Dale and Ashanath as "Auld Cormanthan" doesn't make much sense. This is especially so when the more westerly language of Impiltur and the Vast is noted as being "Easting". The first Dalefolk (well, the first eastern Dalefolk to be more accurate) came from these latter regions, not the Great Dale.

I'm with Gary, the only explanation I can think of is one of reverse nomenclature. The more famous and widespread inhabitants of Cormyr, the Dales and Sembia have their language labelled as "Cormanthan", which is mainly a geographical label. When studying its more obscure and less widespread origin/root tongue, it may be that this was labelled as "Auld Cormanthan" by sages and loremasters seeking to make a connection between the two.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 16 Feb 2020 15:06:48

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2020 : 12:41:27

Started a write up of the Men of the Basilisk.

Noted a few things.

Firstly, that Battlegate Keep is the site of the portal that leads to the Auantiver Labyrinth that all new recruits are required to survive. However the catacombs of Battlegate Keep are also a hideout for the cult of the dragon and the two organisations are enemies (even though the cult is mostly unaware of the men of the basilisk).

It seems curious that during the induction process potential recruits are required to visit the ruins on a named day. Perhaps this day is when the cult of the dragon will be busy or away from its base. Perhaps the men of the basilisk have a member within the cult (the sorcelisk seems a good candidate).

Secondly the men of the basilisk have cells in iraeibor, selgaunt, saerloon, marsember and four other cities. But there is no cell in teziir and yet that is where the exit portal from the labyrinth emerges and where they have their annual meetings.

I wonder if there is a secret cell that operates in teziir and secretly manipulates the octads.

Lastly, the basilisk in the labyrinth is much greater than a normal basilisk, has black dragon blood in his veins, and is at least 8 centuries old. I would expect such a creature to be quite intelligent and probably to be part of the organisation if not secretly running it.

Perhaps he could be manipulating the octad through the symbol (a reptile eye with eight basilisk legs coming out of it)

I have noted that one of the men of the basilisk is a senior war wizard who has kept the war wizards away from this society. Could it be that he directed the war wizards towards other groups like the fire knives in order to advance his station in the war wizards and the men of the basilisk (who are not above using criminals to further their objectives).

ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
2067 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2020 : 12:50:18

Men of the Basilisk
==============
Brief write-up: Cloak & Dagger, page 137.

Full write-up: Polyhedron #142, pages 20-27.

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Edited by - ericlboyd on 17 Feb 2020 13:15:23

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2020 : 12:52:17

I have of course been using that write up as the primary source, it is excellent stuff.

Since you wrote it Eric, have you any thoughts on a secret patron, or on the involvement of the basilisk itself (is it just a prisoner).

I wonder if the auantivers are truly extinct.

ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
2067 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2020 : 13:37:04

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I have of course been using that write up as the primary source, it is excellent stuff.

Since you wrote it Eric, have you any thoughts on a secret patron, or on the involvement of the basilisk itself (is it just a prisoner).

I wonder if the auantivers are truly extinct.

Hi Gary,

You could certainly spin them that way, with a secret patron, but that would make them very similar to the Knights of the Shield. My intent was to show what a group of ruthless merchants could accomplish without a wizard or god "behind the throne" (i.e. Cult of the Dragon or Knights of the Shield), so I would keep them different than that.

There of course could be a secret in the Labyrinth that the Men haven't discovered. If the most recent batch of recruits (which might include a PC?) stumble into that while trying to escape, that might be cool. Maybe, for example, the most recent batch of recruits in 1375 DR was all wiped out, except for one, who simply vanished. Now the Men are trying to hire adventurers (who they will then destroy) to figure out where he went.

That secret part of the stronghold might be home to an Auntiver lich or somesuch.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2020 : 13:44:23

Seems sensible enough, it is different because of its diplomatic organisation without the secret baddie, so I'll keep that.

I suppose there is no teziir cell because that's where the most important asset is (the exit portal) so you wouldn't want any illicit activities in that region (so nothing can be traced back to you). I guess the octad as a whole look after the chapter house and make sure no one buys it.

I do like the idea of a surviving auantiver lich. I did wonder why anyone would build the labyrinth in the first place. Even if the fashion was for a dangerous game for nobles to play, at some point someone would die and if they were important you would be in the poop.

I figure the auantivers went extinct because the crownsilvers, bleths, and truesilvers drove them to poverty and made sure other misfortunes befell them (you kill my heir I make you as poor as a commoner).
But if there was an auantiver baddie that was intending to feed off the souls of a few adventurers then that might make sense, i bet he couldn't care less about his relatives (he is an evil lich after all or he wanted to be).

ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
2067 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2020 : 13:49:14

I think I had this story in mind when I wrote it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Most_Dangerous_Game

Obviously, not the same plot, but that was what I was thinking about.

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 18 Feb 2020 : 20:47:03

Decided to add a bit about the basilisk that is never mentioned in the Men of the Basilisk.

The Basilisk (Evil, Greater Basilisk): The Basilisk (whose name is Sscartaunissk, but no one has ever bothered to ask) has remained imprisoned within the Auantiver Labyrinth since 658 DR, hovering between starvation and insanity, forced to feed on rocks for nutrition, and left with only the remains of petrified monsters for company.

In 1247 DR a number of foolish humanoids stumbled into the Basilisk's prison canyon and once again she was able to feast upon flesh once again. Every year new, stupid, defenceless humanoids would blindly stumble into her home and run around in a panic before she ate them, petrified them, or they ran into a narrow passageway accessible behind her main sleeping chamber, and escaped.

Once the insanity of hunger left her, and she gained focus from the game of stalking those walking meals that entered her lair, then her wits returned to her and she began to notice several details. First was that all of the humans carried a dagger bearing a symbol she remembered from when she was first hatched (the symbol of House Auantiver), second is that all the humans that escape her teeth flee down the same passageway.

Sscartaunissk has formulated a plan to escape, she has been gradually consuming the sides of the rocky canyon in which she is imprisoned, widening it so that eventually she will be able to fit through it, she has lined the passage floor with statues in various poses of escape (making sure that they are looking back towards her), and is moving them apart gradually to cover her excavations. Whenever she has fallen ill (she has an allergy to dwarves), a man arrives to nurse her back to health, he is capable of magic and is immune to her gaze, he also wears a ring bearing the symbol (of House Auantiver).

Sscartaunissk's plan is to widen the passageway enough to fit through and then attempt to devour a witless meatbag and its dagger, then she should be able to pass on to where-ever they disappear to at the end of the passage. If that fails then she will feign illness and wait for the man to come and cure her, and then attack him with her full fury (or at the very least bite off his hand) and again escape her prison. Once free she will gratefully devour beings until she is sated and then flee towards the nearest mountain.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2020 : 21:39:38

Moving on from the Men of the Basilisk to the Purple Dragons of Cormyr.

I realise they arent exactly a clandestine secret organisation, but they are quite large and they are potentially an organisation that PCs can fight or join.

So first thought / question.

When were the purple dragons founded.

I realise that there has been an armed forces in Cormyr for a long time, but has it always been called the Purple Dragons, and when did Cormyr first have a centralised army under the control of the Crown (typically feudal realms raise levies and require nobles to field an agreed number of soldiers from their household, its a big reason why a nation creates nobility).

I have a few thoughts. It seems like King Duar fought Magrath the Minotaur with 20 companions that were known as the Purple Dragons.

I reckon that name remained in history but was not applied to the military for many years after. In this time it is possible that the Crown had a permanent military force larger than most noble houses but only really big enough to guard Suzail and the Crown estates.

Now by 900 DR, King Galaghard leads an army (known as the Glory of Cormyr) against the forces of the Witch King. This is a fight for survival on home soil and is the kind of driver necessary for the creation of a national army (nobles tend to automatically resist any attempts for the King to create a large military force under his direct control). The fact that the army has a special name says to me that it was a special creation to fight the Witch King and an achievement of note. After the war it would be easier to keep the army going and thus keep a permanent national army of considerable size.

By the time of the Kingdom of Esparrin it seems clear that Cormyr has a national military that secures and patrols its territory, although its size is still up for debate.

Then in 1286 DR we have King Salember the Red Dragon battling the forces of Crown Prince Rhigaerd which are known as the Purple Dragons, i'm assuming King Salember named his army the Red Dragons. I would peg this as the official date of the naming of the Purple Dragons as the armed forces of Cormyr.

Anyone have any thoughts or firm dates regarding the Purple Dragons

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2020 : 21:50:58

So, looking at the succession. Gorauna must have been some kind of evil witch, creating this purple throat plague that killed half the dynasty and killing nearly a score of kings and queens herself.

Also noted that prior to King Galaghard I, every king or queen was short lived (those that gorauna didn't slay that is). Following Galaghard I (excluding Galaghard II and Draxius), all the kings live until they are over 80.

Can longevity magically be passed on from parent to children, do they somehow persist in the body to be inherited by offspring, or was someone else trying to keep the obarskyrs alive as long as possible (while someone else tries to kill them).

Did Gorauna actually die, and why didn't she become a ghazneth. Perhaps she is still around as some kind of spirit

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 01 Mar 2020 : 15:24:33

Trawling through the sourcebooks page by page.

Havent yet come across a dividing region within the city of suzail except for the Court Precinct which obviously holds the royal court.

I'm thinking of having the docks, east side, west side, and the hub in the centre.

Came across a few things. The office of lord Chamberlain was created to combat vigilantes exploiting plague times and burning down plague houses and coming back later to sift through the ashes for gold.
The purple throat plague was during gorauna time and I figure after her death and the chaos of her meddling there would be a period of growth and the establishment of order. So I'm thinking the office of Lord Chamberlain is made during the reign of Thargreve the Greater.

Next up was the Hall of Heroes in the Royal Court that holds the pitchfork of a farmer that defended an early queen of suzail from orcs. I find that orcs and goblinoids are used interchangeably in older books and Hlundadim attacked cormyr during the reign of King Moriann so perhaps it was his queen the farmer defended. It doesnt say whether either the queen or the farmer survived, I'm inclined to think not.

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