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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2020 : 20:56:51

Up to the Purple Dragons.

I've noted that there are full time professional soldier, and shorter term soldiers ("short swords" i believe they are called), and presumably part time members as well.

Mixing this with information about the veteran companies and militias i've come up with the following.

When someone joins the Purple Dragons they are most often given the "Short Sword", a term of service lasting 3 years, with an option to extend to 5 years. During this time they serve as guards to non-essential locations (walls, gates, local lords, etc), engage in patrols (around the settled areas), and serve alongside veteran Purple Dragons (see below)

Those that serve with distinction and survive 4 or more combats are given the "Long Sword". At which point they become permanent members of the Purple Dragons. These members form the core of the Purple Dragons soldiery (some 4000 strong) and are given to guard essential locations (High Horn, Citadel of the Purple Dragon, Royal Court, Royal Palace), they also patrol the border regions where combat is likely (west reach, east reach, etc).

Lastly are the part time members (known as the "Wooden Swords) which form the militia. These serve a tenday a month, or 3 months continuous service in a year. When active they make up the majority of the Watch in a settlement (supported by Short Swords).

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 17 Mar 2020 : 12:20:50

Just been cataloguing all of Brian Cortijo's responses to make sure i've got all Cormyr lore.

I was going through and noted a few links between the ahasts and Elminster to the point that i think the Ahasts are all descended from Elminster. Not sure if this is common knowledge or not.

So Elminster trained Amedahast i think, likely he met Alea Dahast (she was in Myth Drannor i believe).

Filfaeril was born in 1306 and her birth prompted the return of Vangerdahast to Cormyr. Filfaeril is a descendant of Elminster.

Vangerdahast trained with Elminster.

Lots of links, why does Elminster have such an interest in the mage royals of Cormyr.

A few oddities about Amedahast and Alea Dahast as well. Alea had a grandson listed in Cormanthyr Empire of Magic, so she almost certainly had other children with elven partners. Is it stated anywhere that Amedahast is the child of Baerauble, i've got it that she is the child of Alea and someone so respected by the Elven Court that they are given wardship of the Forest Kingdom along with Faerlthann (that could be Elminster or Baerauble, presumably Elminster would be more known to the Elven Court).

Edited by - Gary Dallison on 17 Mar 2020 12:35:06

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2022 : 21:57:50

Looking at Cormyr again while i take a break from the novels.

One thing i've noted is the mention of Cormyr being at peace since King Rhigaerd II defeated the Border Raiders.

So trying to figure out a date for this event has led to a few questions.

Who were the Border Raiders
Why is the campaign against them considered a war when Gondegal's rebellion was not

One possible answer is that the Border Raiders were considered an outside force and that is the reason why it was considered war, whereas the rebellion was against an internal threat (albeit with mercenary military units).
This means that the Border Raiders originally came from outside Cormyr.

The Border Raiders could have been in the Stonelands or the Tunlands as these are the only border regions at this time that are not occupied by a stable nation (although in theory the Dalelands could have been home to a force of raiders but i figure we would have heard about it).

So assuming they are Tunland or Stoneland based, who were the Border Raiders. It is possible they were Zhentarim backed mercenaries posing as bandits and raiders. One thing i also discovered while looking at this is that when Rhigaerd exiled Jorunahast, he also effectively disbanded the War Wizards. Those affected War Wizards likely did nothing wrong except be a member of the organisation and suddenly found themselves vilified because of the actions of their leader.
Also, in the Baldur's Gate games there is a set of boots of stealth connected to Rhigaerd and a network of spies that were destroyed by treachery from the inside. I'm wondering if some of these former War Wizards became part of the spy network and eventually engaged in treason.

Its not inconceivable to imagine War Wizards who worked for Salember on Jorunahast's orders becoming angry at their loss of status, some go rogue immediately (the ones that enjoyed persecuting Rhigaerd's followers) and join or setup the Border Raiders. Others go rogue later after being relegated to the position of spy and become disaffected with their perceived punishment.

The Zhents around 1300 DR are just beginning to become strong, in 1303 DR they may have been involved in the formation of the ogre horde that strikes the Moonsea in that year, and a few years later they lead an alliance against Mulmaster so their underhanded activities were starting to become apparent.

Then on to the dating. 1301 DR The Year of the Trumpet is auspiciously named for this event, indicating a victory of sorts. The following year Princess Sulesta is born so why not have Rhigaerd spend the next few years following his defeat of Salember in 1284 DR trying to rebuild the war ravaged Cormyr, then fight off a guerilla war from Zhent sponsored bandits aided by his own former War Wizards.

Anyone have any thoughts or information i have missed regarding Rhigaerd and his border raiders.

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36812 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2022 : 23:02:10

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

One possible answer is that the Border Raiders were considered an outside force and that is the reason why it was considered war, whereas the rebellion was against an internal threat (albeit with mercenary military units).
This means that the Border Raiders originally came from outside Cormyr.

The Border Raiders could have been in the Stonelands or the Tunlands as these are the only border regions at this time that are not occupied by a stable nation (although in theory the Dalelands could have been home to a force of raiders but i figure we would have heard about it).

While these are obvious conclusions, I feel they are based on a common misconception: in the Realms, much like any fantasy setting, borders are more theoretical concepts than actual rigidly defined lines. Just because a line on a map says an area is within a specific border, that's not always the case. Borders are often something of a frontier, sparsely settled and sparsely controlled. Often, the only rigidly defined borders are those that are geographic barriers, like mountains or a river. Anything else is kind of "yeah, the border is in this general vicinity, somewhere."

So the Border Raiders could have been operating from within an area that is nominally within Cormyr's borders but not really under Cormyr's control.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2022 : 07:54:41

Any suggestions.

The stone lands is just such an area, nominally claimed by cormyr but out of its control.

Something internal though would likely classify this as a rebellion and not a war (like gondegal).

Perhaps the border raiders were in the stonelands and that is why cormyr claims the region, it defeated an enemy and claimed control but could not hold the territory.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2022 : 10:45:18

I may have found where it cannot be

Apparently Border raiders were once a constant problem, sweeping in from the west to raid Tyrluk, Eveningstar, and even Arabel.

Since High Horn was built these border raids have all but stopped.

I'm assuming High Horn was completed a long time ago, so the border raiders cannot come from the west. Which leaves the north or east. Sembia and dalelands seem fairly stable, so yet again it leaves the Stonelands as the primary location.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2022 : 14:53:54

Onto the Crystal Grot.

It was discovered sometime between 1187 DR and 1210 DR (during the reign of King Pryntaler.

Apart from Vangerdahast, Amble Obarskyr (the discoverer) and every King since then (save Salember and Gondegal), only 6 Purple Dragons have known its location.

That list has one glaring omission which means that Jorunhast, the High Mage of Cormyr at the time did not know its location.

I have it from the best of sources that the Crystal Grot was lost for a time (its discoverer died and the 2 apprentices, who must have been Purple Dragons, did not know the precise location - they knew what the surroundings looked like but not how to get there).

This means that the Crystal Grot, while being discovered sometime during Pryntaler's reign was lost shortly afterwards, and only rediscovered recently.

The fact that the rightful Kings since its discovery have all seen it presents a problem, one that could perhaps be explained by a picture or painting in one of the many secret rooms, or that it is actually located within the Royal Court somewhere that the royals visited but not the High Mage Jorunhast.
Maybe the rumours in Volos Guide to Cormyr are correct and the portal to reach it is located in the Royal Court and it is in a place restricted to Obarskyr's only - such as the Royal Crypt.

Edited by - Gary Dallison on 26 Oct 2022 14:56:07

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6669 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2022 : 06:42:58

Rhigaerd II defeated the Border Raiders in the Year of the Shadowtop (1314 DR) as per the timeline in the 2E FR Campaign Boxed Set (Running the Realms, p.17).

And yes, my understanding was that they were always based in the Stonelands.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2022 : 08:16:08

Cheers George, can't believe i missed that one.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2022 : 16:11:17

Next conundrum.

The Sword Heralds. We have a date for the Sword Heralds beginning their work around 620 - 640 DR and probably quite a bit longer. I dont believe there is an end date but Volos Guide to Cormyr says the Sword Heralds died or disappeared centuries ago.

All that is fine, except when you read the verses that people used to track down the hidden refuges. The Dawninghunt refuge mentions a statue of King Dhalmass who reigned 1210 to 1227 DR.

Now i'm assuming the statue was built after his reign (not a guarantee but most people arent so vacuous as to build statues of themselves), but that then means the verse (presumably created by the Sword Heralds) referenced the statue of a king who appeared long after the Sword Heralds existed.

The other verse references a mage called Glonder (perhaps a misspelling of the name Glondar who was a mage mentioned in Stormlight????) who did something famous 300 years ago which may also possibly have been after the Sword Heralds disappeared.

Which leaves a few possibilities.

The Sword Heralds are still around and are leaving clues to find them.
Someone else found these refuges and is leaving clues for other people to find the treasures within.
The Sword Heralds only vanished 100 years ago and wrote all these verses just before they disappeared.
Or something else.

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6669 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2022 : 01:19:07

It's an interesting point re the Sword Heralds (and the typo reference to the Storm Heralds which Ed magnanimously said wasn't a typo and that they were a separate group - he loves covering up for other people's screw ups) and I think the key is the word "disappeared". It appears that they had an earlier public presence. Certainly if they were used by noble houses to create safeholds. The interesting thing is that they existed around the time of Myth Drannor and Amedehast (we'll have to blame Steven Schend for that date) and operated with Crown approval - likely because they agreed to construct a bunch of safe holds for the Crown.

You are right about Dhalmass and the timing issue, but there's nothing to say when their verses were discovered or written, only that they "left behind" their list as a series of verses. I think that they disappear well before that king's reign (we know they are still operational in c. 1070 DR) and it's interesting to note that the zulkirs of Thay confirm their rule in 1074 DR. Maybe in hunting down some renegade Red Wizards who have fled west, Thay clashes with the Sword Heralds, which causes them to go underground. It's notable that Thay is also fighting the Covenant at this time, and it might be an indication of Thay looking for magic to combat this threat, including the ability to build safe holds in the North as sanctuaries for their wizards who are taking the fight there. Whatever happens, they go underground, and likely have their ranks winnowed away. It might well be that the list wasn't offical or sanctioned by the leadership of the Sword Heralds. Given Khelben infiltrated them, I can imagine that Elminster did so also, and his hand in the dissemination of the list appears likely. It's a very Elminster thing to do. He's just playing coy in VGtC.

Anyway, lots of conjecture and stuff to build on. For later.

I am enjoying the points you are raising.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2022 : 08:15:57

I'm enjoying the answers you give.

I wonder is Elminster likely to give people the opportunity to locate potentially fabulous wealth and powerful magic just to slightly irk vangerdahast (and because it's his job to ensure that magic gets free).

A trapped sword herald releasing info piece by piece until someone finally gets all the keys to release him from his own inter dimensional trap is also likely.

One odd ball idea is that vangerdshast himself is releasing this information on orders from the crown. We know the king likes to go walkies among his subjects. Those he deems worthy of aid might find a clue to fabulous wealth come into their possession if they have the wits and courage to solve it.

Anyway, onto glondar / glonder next

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2022 : 10:04:15

So the Sword Heralds blurb in Volos Guide to Cormyr (pg 228) mentions a mage called Glonder in one of the verses to find a Sword Herald safehold.

Glonder supposedly rode the entirety of Calantar's Way (which runs from Suzail to Arabel) in a single 24 hour period to meet and defeat a dragon.

Now in Stormlight there is mention of a war wizard called Glondar of Hilp, who determined a means of stealing the abilities of others (supposedly gleaned from avatars of Bane and Gargauth).

Now Hilp is located on Calantar's Way and as a war wizard it is likely that Glonder was in Suzail at the time (where a large proportion of war wizards are stationed (compared to elsewhere in Cormyr, especially the high powered ones that can take on a dragon).

Could the two be the same person (a minor spelling mistake perhaps, they do happen - Storm Heralds and Sword Heralds for example).

Musing on some possibilities, why would a War Wizard on his own rush from Suzail to Arabel to take on a dragon. Dragons are not super common in Cormyr and are always considered dangerous, usually requiring a significant mobilisation of military might to fight them.

So if Glonder is Glondar, then presumably he already possesses the ability to steal abilities from others, and so he targets a dragon next to vastly increase his power. He could have been successful and perhaps even become a late addition to the Sword Heralds or tried to steal their powers (his tale would be around the 1000 - 1100 DR range which is about right for the last appearance of the Sword Heralds).

Perhaps the dragon in question was one of the same brood as plagued the Firefall Vale.

I wonder if the book at the beginning of Stormlight was actually Glondar's tome (including his notes on stealing the abilities of others), which would explain how Athlan found out about Glondar and his past.

Just a possibility. They could be entirely separate, but the timing might work together, the geographic locations work for them being the same. The occupations kind of work as Cormyr tends to put all mages in the council of mages or the war wizards (in modern day). And lets face it, anyone that comes into contact with an aspect of Gargauth (being imprisoned means avatar is not possible) is almost certainly going to become corrupted and betray their principles.

Just a thought, they could be separate, but there are enough coincidental similarities to hint at the possibility of them being the same.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2022 : 21:31:21

Sooo, Wyvernhaunt Keep was used by Gondegal the Usurper.

The only problem is that Wyvernhaunt is located on the Tunlands side of the western Stormhorns.

Gondegal's main base was Arabel and the West Reaches which are two places very far apart.

I can only imagine that the West Reaches was filled with malcontents that declared for Gondegal (probably because they felt ignored so far from Cormyr).

This defection may have been what caused increased patrols of the Tunlands by Cormyr (that and the increased activity in Darkhold.

Edited by - Gary Dallison on 29 Oct 2022 21:54:13

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2022 : 22:01:59

I've found another Duke of Cormyr. Duke of the West Reaches which was given to the House of Hornshield by King Rhigaerd II for their efforts in combatting the brigands presumably in the Tunland.

So that means Cormyr claimed or had to reclaim the Tunlands sometime after 1286 DR.

Duke is the most powerful title after the royal family. So the Duke of the West Reaches would have been very powerful and if Duke Bhereu is anything to go by a considerable commander of military might (i'm presuming he commanded the troops at High Horn).

Duke Hornshield could have been the Duke Bhereu of his day, a super close friend of Rhigaerd (one of his 20 or so companions during the civil war perhaps) and maybe even a relative.

Regardless, within 15 years Duke Hornshield was dead and his entire noble house extinct, he could have been the last of his line, or someone / something could have targeted him and his family. Varalla was around in Darkhold at that time, and the lich Nyrax, and the black dragons of the swamp, and were wyverns, and all manner of other monsters in the Tunlands.

If Duke Hornshield was off securing the Tunlands, then that means Rhigaerd may have personally put down the Border Raiders in the Stonelands (assuming he did not appoint another Duke after Hornshield's death).

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2022 : 07:53:57

Page 202 in Volos Guide to Cormyr mentions the Seven Lost Heirs. I'm presuming he is talking about Cormyr.

Never heard this tale before, it is unlikely to be true because the Royal House of Obarskyr has been whittled down to its present roster. But it would be interesting to speculate on who they could be.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6362 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2022 : 10:39:38

So Princess Kathla (daughter of Galaghard III) killed on the steps of a temple of Helm in Juniril by bandits.

It says in dying she uttered a curse upon the bandits that slew her, and that curse is the reason that the temple has never been restored.

However, the it does not say when the temple was destroyed.

It is possible that Kathla was slain sometime around 900 DR, it may be that Kathla's death precipitated the beginning of the rule of the Witchlords.

We know the final battle against the Witchlords was in 900 DR, and that in the 3 months prior to that battle, King Galaghard III liberated Wheloon, Juniril, and other lands around the Wyvernwater.

So it is possible that Princess Kathla was slain around Juniril before the Witchlords first claimed that land. We know the Witchlords used human troops in battle (and then reanimated them), so its likely they did not rule over a dead land, but used humans until undead proved the better option. The bandits could have slain the princess and then the Witchlords torched the temple.

Does anyone have a date for when the Witchlords first challenged the rule of Cormyr.

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6669 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2022 : 11:50:40

Kathla was born in 898 DR and died in 925 DR. There was no great conspiracy in her death - just her falling afoul of a brigand raid.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

pancakewizard
Acolyte

United Kingdom
6 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2023 : 13:25:40

Interesting topic for me this, as I'm currently putting together a Cormyr campaign for DMsguild and I've 'updated' it to 1495DR using as much existing lore as I can.

I'm focused on the newer Cormyr borderlands at the moment around Proskur, the Sunset Mountains and the Gritstone Moorland, but I've got a lot on Redspring and Arabel in the pocket. I can't give much away until published sadly, but here's one thing:

A Grand Tournament Arabellans hold outside their southern walls (near the the Elfskull tavern) to celebrate Midsummer. Events include: a grand melee, jousting, on foot melee contests, archery and side shows. The first prize is a magical diadem said to be blessed by Tymora herself that grants the wearer exceptional luck. It teleports itself back to the city after 1 year to be the next Grand Tournament's prize.

Edited by - pancakewizard on 02 Jan 2023 13:26:38

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