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Erin Tettensor
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
89 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 11:33:24
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I know this is not strictly speaking a Realms topic, but since Alaundo was so patient with the Writers' Associations thread, I thought I'd give it a go -- particularly since most of us new FR authors are probably thinking about these things.
With my latest novel nearing completion, my thoughts turn again to that shadowed, unfathomable dimension: the Agent Market. And I would very much like a guide (or, better yet, several guides) to help me through the next steps, since I think I botched the whole process quite badly the last time around.
Thus far I have been a dedicated neophyte, ceaselessly perusing the literature on how to construct a query letter that will land you an agent. But what none of the how-to books tell is you how to add that certain something, that magic ingredient that grabs an agent's attention and sets you apart from the pile. I think it must be presentation as much as content, but beyond this I'm a little lost. How do you, in a hundred words or less, communicate that you're a talented author with a great story to tell?
I am particularly interested in the advice of those authors who landed their agents in this way. Any hints to share with us wannabes?
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 15:24:53
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If there's a magical ingredient, I don't know what it is. For whatever it may be worth, I'll share the only stuff I do know.
Your query letter to the agent should be:
1. Well-written, with proper grammar and syntax, free of typoes, etc.
2. Concise and entirely relevant to the matter at hand. When you reread it, if you find that at some point you strayed into talking about things that are not relevant, rip those sentences out of there.
3. Professional in tone and attitude. Unless he's a personal friend of yours, the agent likely doesn't care about your emotional state, your hopes and dreams, or the details of your personal life.
4. You'll be asking the agent to look at a particular book or book proposal. You should make it clear what genre (if any) the novel belongs to, and what the central idea is. Ideally, your statement of the premise should be intriguing. You should accomplish the task of describing your novel in just a sentence or two. Understand, your job here is emphatically not to summarize the actual plot. (That would make the letter much too long.) That's the job of an outline, not a query. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 21:22:37
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| For number 4, should it be an inticing statement, such as is typically tried for on the inside-cover blurbs, or should it be more factual (the protagonist does x and y, culminating in z)? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 23:15:01
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You don't do "enticing" if by that you mean using gosh-wow evaluative adjectives like "this is an EXCITING story" or "this is a THRILLING tale" or "In this SUSPENSEFUL story peopled with WELL-DRAWN, ENGAGING characters..." Definitely, none of that. Don't use words that either directly or by implication boast that your work is good. The agent will form his own opinion on that subject, thanks, and in any case, nothing will make you look more amateurish.
So yes, factual. But probably not: "The protagonist does x and y, culiminating in z." That's a summary of the plot, which is to say, an outline. If you recall, I specified that you are not stuffing an outline into your query. You're just indicating to which genre the story belongs, and what it's about
Here's an example. If I were describing my novel The Vampire's Apprentice in a query to an agent, I might say something like: The book is a contemporary horror story in which an unhappy young man, captivated by the glamorous images of vampires prevalent in the media, voluntarily accepts induction into the ranks of the undead. Once transformed, however, he rapidly discovers that vampirism is truly a curse, one that plunges him into a nightmarish struggle to survive.
See? I indicated the genre and the premise, and I did it succinctly, in two sentences. With luck, maybe I piqued your interest. But I didn't say it's a great book, or that I'm a swell writer, and I didn't try to tell you the actual plot. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 23:17:34
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That's actually the sort of blub/summery I was talking about.
 I know enough not to boast. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 01:59:59
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| It may seem like I was belaboring the painfully obvious, Bookwyrm, but you"d be surprised how many people don't know things like that. |
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Erin Tettensor
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 10:13:32
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You're quite right there, Richard -- lots of people just write copy, like the blurbs one finds on the inside leaf or back cover of a book, and come off sounding like egomaniacs, not to mention amateurs.
But I'm grateful you gave an example, because in truth there's a fine line to be trod, and I'm not sure I've mastered it yet. It's a bit like weaving metaphor into your prose: you can never be sure if it's too subtle, or if you're beating someone over the head with it. So if I were to say something like, "But he will soon discover that some locks are never meant to be opened, some truths never to see light. And he will learn that in the struggle to put things right, time is his greatest enemy," that would be fine. But if I said, "But some locks are never meant to be opened, and William soon finds himself caught up in an epic adventure that is as deceptive as it is deadly," would that be treading too close to the margin?
Perhaps I'm overthinking this. I have a tendency to do so. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 11:08:17
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I've a tendancy to see things from many points of view. I think that would make me a good diplomat or negotiator . . . except of course for my people skills. 
The point is, if I were to place myself in the position of an editor reading that second blurb, I'd start closing my open mind at the use of the word "epic." |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 13:01:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
The point is, if I were to place myself in the position of an editor reading that second blurb, I'd start closing my open mind at the use of the word "epic."
Agreed. To my ear, both blurbs still sounded a bit too much like breathless, back-cover copy. Additionally, they give very little real information. The example RLB gave provides the genre, the premise, the conflict, and the tone. It hits exactly the right note, and in doing so, presents his manuscript as the work of a seasoned professional.
It seems to me that you're putting too much weight on the cover letter. As RLB pointed out, there is no magic ingredient that will seize an agent's attention. Your cover letter should give the basic information in clear, error-free prose. The best way to convince an agent that you're a "talented author with a great story to tell" is to tell a great story. The agent is going to spend a lot more time on your manuscript than your cover letter, and in the end, that's what his decision will be based upon. He's a salesperson, and he's looking for marketable product. If his goal was to find you a job in marketing, he'd be more concerned with your ability to write a compelling sales pitch.
When looking for an agent, it's important to define what you expect from the relationship. To this end, I strongly recommend Richard Curtis's book How to be Your Own Literary Agent. Getting the wrong agent for you can be worse than having none at all. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 28 Apr 2004 13:03:25 |
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Erin Tettensor
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 13:30:53
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
To my ear, both blurbs still sounded a bit too much like breathless, back-cover copy.
You've hit the nail on the head there, and that's the crux of my problem. I really appreciate that feedback. Basically the line to be trod is between marketing copy and an outline, which seems like a pretty thick line until you get going.
I think what I've been doing wrong is placing the priority on enticing the agent with a captivating story, as opposed to showing myself to be a seasoned professional. In Richard's example, he says that "with luck" he's piqued your interest. It seems that he places a higher priority on showing himself to be a pro. This is very interesting, and the more I think about it the more sense it makes. If nothing else, it avoids the problem of an agent liking your query and requesting the manuscript, only to find that your work is not at all what he/she thought, because your query, while snappy, was too vague. And it's probably the case that there are a lot more potentially great stories told badly than great writers telling bad stories.
As for putting too much stock in the cover letter, do you really think so? From the 2003 Guide to Literary Agents, which I have used as my database, I would estimate that 75-80% of (fantasy) agents request a query letter first, without any sample pages at all. In other words, if you stick to Richard's suggestion of two or three lines to encapsulate your story, that's how much space you have to bait the hook. You'd better hope they're some stellar lines! |
Edited by - Erin Tettensor on 28 Apr 2004 13:43:18 |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 14:06:20
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Zyx,
Let me step the discussion back a bit and ask this: At this stage of your career, why do you believe that you need an agent? While it is true that an editor may look more favorably upon an agented submission than an unagented, slushpile submission, I remain firmly convinced that excellent writing speaks for itself quite well (and can be heard even from the turgid, black depths of the slushpile). I'm sure you already know that many of the fantasy/sci-fi publishers have open submissions policies (DAW, Baen and Tor jump to mind).
My point is simply to say that having an agent is not necessary to having a successful writing career, though it may be desirable at some point. Elaine's caveat is good advice (you'll find that EC often gives good advice): Understand clearly what you expect to get out of an agent.
Does having an agent increase the probability that your novel will get published? Possibly, though I remain unconvinced. An agent *would* allow you to submit to publishers who do not accept unagented submissions (and perhaps put the manuscript in the hands of a more senior editor, rather than an intern or junior editor), and that is an undeniable benefit. Still -- and this is just my opinion -- if the work is good enough to be published by Del-Rey via your agent, it's likely good enough to find its way out of Baen's slushpile.
Obviously, an agent also brings another benefit: (hopefully) allowing you to focus on writing rather than drafting query letters and negotiating contracts. That can be a nice value-add.
My experience, FWIW: At this point in my career, I've chosen to go without an agent. So far, so good. Of course, I'm a transactional lawyer by training so contractual matters are something I deal with every day. Also, I'm not so harried that drafting an occasional query letter or managing my own marketing (such as it is) is overly bothersome. YMMV, or course.
Paul |
Edited by - PaulSKemp on 28 Apr 2004 14:10:30 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 14:31:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Zyx
As for putting too much stock in the cover letter, do you really think so? From the 2003 Guide to Literary Agents, which I have used as my database, I would estimate that 75-80% of (fantasy) agents request a query letter first, without any sample pages at all.
Yes, I do. A query letter can help agents screen potential clients on a number of levels. If the letter is riddled with errors, there's little reason to believe the manuscript will be any better. That alone probably weeds out more than half. On the next level, the agent can ascertain whether or not the proposed story is the sort of story he or she represents; for example, many agents don't represent young adult fiction. I'm guessing a lot of writers don't bother checking. Then there's the story itself. Perhaps the premise is simply unworkable--a vampire with HIV, for example--or too obviously derivative to be marketable. Judging from the number of emails I've received from aspiring writers who are writing their own tales about moonblade-wielding elves, agents are probably innundated with tales about perky female bounty hunters (inspired by Janet Evanavich's very successful Stephanie Plum series), good-aligned dark elves (the Drizzt books), and so on. These would be fairly easy to weed out. These criteria probably disqualify seven or eight submissions from every ten.
Agents will evaluate interesting story ideas by a number of other criteria, such as recent buying trends. For example, Arthurian fiction seems to go in cycles, and your manuscript might catch the wave and it might not. Anti-heroes seem to come in and out of favor. At present, a lot of fantasy is taking a darker tone, and a Smurfette-meets-unicorn lovefest is probably not an idea whose day has come. (Except as parody, which has possibilities...) You might have the misfortunate of proposing a story that's very similar to one a major publisher is on the verge of releasing. The preferences/needs of editors also comes into play. If an agent knows that a particular editor is looking for a hefty trilogy to market as the next big epic, he's going to read a proposal for such a tale with that particular opportunity in mind.
So yes, agents can learn a lot from a cover letter. That's why I believe letters should be concise, professional, and informative. Purple prose takes up space that could be used to convey valuable information--which is what the agent will use to make a decision. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 28 Apr 2004 16:36:57 |
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Erin Tettensor
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 15:45:32
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This is all very useful, and I sincerely appreciate the feedback. I think I will definitely change my approach.
As to whether I need an agent, Paul, the question is a good one, and I'm of two minds. Clearly, if my relationship with WoTC continues and it's an exclusive one, there seems little need to secure representation. But that doesn't help me out with my novel, which is not WoTC-based.
My worries about landing an agent do not really stem from any fear of negotiating contracts, since my career is still in a relatively nascent stage. It has more to do with an agent's ability to get a manuscript in front of publishers. I am aware of the open submissions policies of DAW, Baen and Tor. However, given the difficulty of being rescued from the slush pile, I'm mostly playing a numbers game. Having the ability to pitch to eight publishers instead of three is obviously of some benefit, particularly considering the vagaries of editorial choice.
Another question that emerges, though, is this: is there any truth to the argument that a cover letter to a publisher and a query letter to an agent are two different beasts? I can't see why this would be, since both are presumably concerned with the same thing, which is the saleability of your material. But I've come across this particular pearl of wisdom quite a few times. |
Edited by - Erin Tettensor on 28 Apr 2004 17:10:36 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 17:29:54
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Baen is the publisher that I'd choose out of all the others, if I could. Talk about quality . . . there've been plenty Baen books I haven't liked, but not a one was badly written. I can't say that about any other publisher of fiction.
The year-long waiting list is a problem, though. I can just imagine the agony of having to wait the better part of a year or more to find out if you've been selected or not. Considering they prefer electronic submission, they probably send out rejection letters, which are better than no letters at all. At least the waiting stops. And they might tell you what you did wrong.
I do like their mention that the cover letter shouldn't try to sell the story, and that the story stands on its own merit. It makes presentation less important.
I'd read the submission guidelines before, but now I understand it a lot more.  Hopefully I'll get in when I'm ready . . . . |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 18:03:52
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A query letter and a cover letter are indeed different. We've already talked about what a query letter should look like. My cover letters are generally even more succinct. If it's a followup to a previous communication (like a query and the editor's response), it'll typically say something on the order of:
Thank you for your letter of 4/27/04. As you requested, I'm sending you the manuscript of my fantasy novel Tail-Chasing Liquor Pigs of Middle Earth. I hope you like it, and that it fits your editorial requirements.
SASE enclosed. Thanks for considering my work.
If I'm making a cold submission, the cover letter is usually even briefer. Something on the order of:
Enclosed please find my short story "Sagebrush, Motor Oil, and Eucalyptus," a submission for your anthology Cyber-Pandas of the Old West. I hope you like it and that it fits your editorial requirements.
SASE enclosed. Thanks for considering my work.
As far as I'm concerned, the main function a cover letter can fulfill is to remind the editor (or agent) that he ASKED to see what you're sending in (assuming that's true, and if he responded favorably to a query, it is.) One hopes that this makes him review it personally, as opposed to slinging it into the slush pile for some wretched underling to glance at decades or centuries hence.
The cover letter can also be useful if the editor is editing more than one magazine, anthology, or whatever. You want him to know which one you're submitting to.
Other than that, cover letters pretty much just say, Here it is. And if your reaction to that is, No, duh, really? that's pretty much my thinking on the subject as well. I think that in a lot of situations, cover letters're pretty much useless, and therefore you might as well be as brief as humanly possible. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 18:13:16
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When to get an agent?
It depends. If you're working in the shared-world sub-genre, you can get along for quite a while without one. The world of game-related fiction is a small one, and publishers are aware of who's writing what. Once you've started writing for one company, it's not too difficult to make lateral moves. There isn't much room for negotiation in most work-for-hire contracts, and some writers feel the potential benefit doesn't balance the 15% agent fee.
If you wish to expand from shared-world to "mainstream fantasy" (a designation which IMO is much akin to "jumbo shrimp," but let's not go there), an agent becomes more important, but not necessarily essential to publication. I think there's a point at which the value an agent adds is greater than the fee, but that point is different for everyone.
I chose my current agent based on my desired career path. I plan to continue writing shared-world fiction, but I am also working on other projects, including a historical novel I've been researching and writing (off and on) for over two years now. My previous writing credits won't be much help in placing a historical novel, nor do I have contacts at houses that publish such novels. At this point, I need an agent who has clients and contacts in both fantasy and historical.
One more point that is not as obvious to many aspiring writers as it might seem: don't start looking for an agent until you have a ready-to-read manuscript. I've made this mistake myself, pitching a project that was only partially completed--one that, alas, I was never able to complete. Not all good ideas evolve into good stories, and it's a Very Bad Idea to put yourself in the position of having to say, "Umm, never mind...."
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Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 28 Apr 2004 18:25:33 |
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Erin Tettensor
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 20:04:14
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"Tail-chasing Liquor Pigs of Middle Earth"? Hmm. That sounds promising, actually. What say we collaborate on that, Richard? A story from the perspective of that dumpy-looking hobbit who was forever hitting on Rosie. If you need someone with a mental filing cabinet full of hopeless chat-up lines, I'm your girl. Ah, university...
But back to the issue at hand. Let me see if I can sum up the wisdom on query letters thus far:
1. Be succinct. Editors and agents are busy people, so get to the point.
2. Make sure there aren't no mistakes in your letter.
3. Don't get your knickers in a twist trying to write slicker-than-hell copy. It marks you out as an amateur.
4. Be sure to represent your story accurately, so the agent/publisher has a good idea what you're pitching.
5. Understand precisely what it is you hope to gain from a relationship with an agent. It may be unnecessary to your professional development.
Anything to add?
One more thing: I have read a number of posts where Elaine mentions a bais against shared-world fiction. Does this mean my FR sale will not help separate me from the herd when I pitch my mainstream fantasy novel?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 22:44:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Zyx
2. Make sure there aren't no mistakes in your letter.
I certainly hope that was intentional... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 00:15:43
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Ah Wooly! 
Always on the prowl!! 
PS: now that my fiancé MAKES ME watch Survivor All-Stars, I look at your name... Wooly Rupert... anything related to our favorite Survivor-pirate? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 01:12:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Ah Wooly!
Always on the prowl!!
PS: now that my fiancé MAKES ME watch Survivor All-Stars, I look at your name... Wooly Rupert... anything related to our favorite Survivor-pirate?
I avoid reality TV like the plague. No, the name Wooly Rupert comes from the second Spelljammer appendix to the Monstrous Compendium. Wooly Rupert is the name given to the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen, a legendary creature that tinker gnomes fear but won't admit to believing in.
I chose that name because it's a silly name from a skewy concept, and unless you know Spelljammer, it's pretty obscure. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 01:29:00
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| I was once a player in a Spelljammer campaign, but just very shortly (like 3 months). Strange however... Survivor's Rupert is also very wooly... |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 05:58:18
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"Reality" show? You mean unreality shows, don't you?
I find it irritating that they're so popular. I particularly hate Survivor for starting the whole stupid thing. Sometimes I wonder if there will even be enough of a market for real stories anymore. Then other times I want to work harder, to show people what they're missing . . . . |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Erin Tettensor
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 11:11:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I certainly hope that was intentional...
I can assure you it was quite intentional, yes. |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 14:08:08
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Zyx: Your FR sale is definitely a professional credit, and worth mentioning when you're approaching an agent or book editor. In and of itself, it won't convince the guy that he wants to represent or acquire your novel, but a short-story sale to Analog or The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction wouldn't do that, either. It does show you're already a pro, and that's a plus.
In my opinion, if you've done professional non-fiction writing, or fiction-writing in a completely different genre, that's worth mentioning, also. What isn't worth mentioning is writing you didn't get paid for. So you don't talk about fan fiction or the church newsletter. |
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Erin Tettensor
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 14:37:41
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| Makes sense. The one I'm always torn about is mentioning the writing I do for my job. I don't get paid by the article, but I do get paid to write them. Trouble is, I think it would be tough to convince an editor/agent that writing academic pieces about cluster munitions or civil violence in South Africa puts me in good stead to write a fantasy story. Thus far I've elected not to mention such writing at all, though deep down I believe that any professional writing, so long as it is subject to editorial scrutiny, helps hone your craft. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 23:05:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
"Reality" show? You mean unreality shows, don't you?
I find it irritating that they're so popular. I particularly hate Survivor for starting the whole stupid thing. Sometimes I wonder if there will even be enough of a market for real stories anymore. Then other times I want to work harder, to show people what they're missing . . . .
Yes... humans are clearly devolving, and as much as I hate genetic experimentation, I sometimes wonder if that's what's going to be required for us to get out of that intellectual slump... I'm so afraid that super-intelligent genetically modified humans would end-up leaving what's left of our instincts or emotions behind though, so I don't wish for such a scenario.
All I can do is put my nose down in books and try to become smarter the old fashion way... and hope somehow this affects my genes enough to pass along some good traits to my kids when my fiancé and I decide to build a family...
::Sigh::
Maybe the first step would be to pull my girlfriend out of Survivor first? hmm... |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 23:13:51
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Yes, that would be a good first step.  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 00:37:41
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| Yes... perhaps this is the time to try toppling down that female domination hmm? with Lolth's silence, perhaps we lowly males stand a chance? |
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Plumbing the depths of author wisdom
