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Originally posted by Arivia

Ed responded to me about how bodily gender transitioning is done in the Realms, and he confirms that it is often done at temples for the faithful: https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/1226676374125056002?s=20

Yes! I have wanted this information for YEARS.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Arivia

Ed responded to me about how bodily gender transitioning is done in the Realms, and he confirms that it is often done at temples for the faithful: https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/1226676374125056002?s=20

Yes! I have wanted this information for YEARS.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Arivia

Ed responded to me about how bodily gender transitioning is done in the Realms, and he confirms that it is often done at temples for the faithful: https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/1226676374125056002?s=20

Yes! I have wanted this information for YEARS.

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Originally posted by keftiu

Tangential thought branching off of Ed’s replies there: I kinda love the idea of a devout champion of some god whose domains have nothing to do with selfhood, bodies, change, love, or the like getting that blessing. Nothing quite like a glorious, bloody champion of Tempus, Helm, or Bane demanding their proper body after all the fighting they’ve done.

Is there a god of athleticism in the Realms? I had a transmasc athlete/priest of Dol Dorn in my Eberron supplement, and doing something similar would be a lot of fun.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It's not really been addressed that much, save for a passing reference here and there.

TSR was scared of running afoul of the many self-proclaimed moral watchdogs of the age, and went out of their way to avoid anything other than straight, cis characters (actually, TSR barely even touched on anything related to sex).

When WotC came along, there was less concern over the potential blowback on such topics, but they still more or less didn't really go into it. It's only been in the last few years that they've become more inclusive; there was I believe I 5E book where they finally, point blank said "hey, your character doesn't have to be straight and cis, they can be LGBTQ." Oddly, there was a lot of debate over that one (debate that we WILL NOT be having again!).

Ed has more than once addressed the topic; what he has said is that for the most part, as long as everyone involved is of age and consenting, no one really cares.

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Men are forbidden to marry before the age of 20 and cannot live with their wives until age 30. Akanax scorns the arts of Cimbar but admires its fighting spirit. The city is organized like a military camp. Women exist to serve the men, who eat at a common mess and train together constantly."(FR10 Old Empires, pg54)

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Akanax (Large City, 24,632): This town functions like a military camp. Male citizens are conscripted into the army or slain for desertion. Strangers are only barely tolerated here and viewed with suspicion. No mercenary companies are allowed within its borders. Akanax has been warring with Luthcheq for several years, and has allied with Cimbar against Soorenar. King Hippartes (LN male
human Ftr19) is a tyrant but considered the finest soldier in the nation. Akanax's city population figure doesn't include the army camped outside the city, some fifty thousand soldiers.(Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3rd Edition, p.184)

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Pandrick: The fortress city of Pandrick (population 6,500) is the cultural antithesis of Erebos. Like the fabled Akanaxian warriors of old, citizens of Pandrick (both male and female) are bonded into
military service at a young age and trained in martial combat. King Zeareus of Pandrick entered into an
uneasy truce with Luthcheq several years ago, but with the Karanok’s attentions focused on Threskel,
some predict that Pandrick will soon break the agreement and march on the Chessentan capital

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He rules with absolute authority, though a senate elected from the land-holding males of Cimbar meets frequently to make proposals; the king usually at least listens to their advice.(FR10 Old Empires, p.54)

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Originally posted by Seravin

Definitely agree with you Keftiiu; I did mention it was off topic in that I don't equate the two! Just that the many wives thing was something that TSR seemed to have dropped about Turmish culture when they went back to the area later, and it never made sense to me. I do think Ed's version of Polyamory in the Realms seems more like a modern interpretation of it, rather than the harem thing, if thats any comfort.

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

I can certainly appreciate that the debate must have become quite robust over such topics when they occurred over inclusion of material into accessories, novels, etc.

Are there topics of discussion that are forbidden on this site so I can know what to steer clear of? After having read the Code of Conduct, it seemed that practically anything was fair game, but I didn't want to assume.

It seems with your decree that debate regarding being "straight and cis, they can be LGBTQ" is not ok, but perhaps other formats of discussing such topics are acceptable?

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

I can certainly appreciate that the debate must have become quite robust over such topics when they occurred over inclusion of material into accessories, novels, etc.

Are there topics of discussion that are forbidden on this site so I can know what to steer clear of? After having read the Code of Conduct, it seemed that practically anything was fair game, but I didn't want to assume.

It seems with your decree that debate regarding being "straight and cis, they can be LGBTQ" is not ok, but perhaps other formats of discussing such topics are acceptable?

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Rupert,

I can certainly appreciate that the debate must have become quite robust over such topics when they occurred over inclusion of material into accessories, novels, etc.

Are there topics of discussion that are forbidden on this site so I can know what to steer clear of? After having read the Code of Conduct, it seemed that practically anything was fair game, but I didn't want to assume.

It seems with your decree that debate regarding being "straight and cis, they can be LGBTQ" is not ok, but perhaps other formats of discussing such topics are acceptable?

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The debate was people complaining about the inclusion of non-cis and non-binary types in the game. People were throwing out all sorts of bigoted BS, calling it pandering and such nonsense.

That's what we're not debating -- whether or not we should welcome LGBT players into the game and allow LGBT characters.

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Originally posted by keftiu

Got linked a useful order thread with some terms from Ed's own table: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3684&whichpage=14

Not copying them all here because quite a few are supposed to be slurs (or at the very least impolite), and also I absolutely loath seeing "simpering man-lover" ever again. But it's worth noting that this gives us polite terms for gay men (liyan), lesbians (thruss), bi men (tasmar), and bi women (shaeda). I've reached out to Ed on Twitter to ask about "saece," presented as a non-derogatory term for a crossdresser, as I wonder if he'd stand by that use or have it refer to trans individuals.

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Learned Scribe keftiu,

Curious since you made this scroll not too long ago: what, if any, effects do you feel exist with the slang that was provided via that link you shared, for how issues were viewed back in 2005 and now in 2020 for gamers? I mean, things have changed massively in 15 years.

Best regards,

quote:

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Originally posted by keftiu

Got linked a useful order thread with some terms from Ed's own table: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3684&whichpage=14

Not copying them all here because quite a few are supposed to be slurs (or at the very least impolite), and also I absolutely loath seeing "simpering man-lover" ever again. But it's worth noting that this gives us polite terms for gay men (liyan), lesbians (thruss), bi men (tasmar), and bi women (shaeda). I've reached out to Ed on Twitter to ask about "saece," presented as a non-derogatory term for a crossdresser, as I wonder if he'd stand by that use or have it refer to trans individuals.

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Originally posted by keftiu

quote:

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Learned Scribe keftiu,

Curious since you made this scroll not too long ago: what, if any, effects do you feel exist with the slang that was provided via that link you shared, for how issues were viewed back in 2005 and now in 2020 for gamers? I mean, things have changed massively in 15 years.

Best regards,

quote:

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Originally posted by keftiu

Got linked a useful order thread with some terms from Ed's own table: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3684&whichpage=14

Not copying them all here because quite a few are supposed to be slurs (or at the very least impolite), and also I absolutely loath seeing "simpering man-lover" ever again. But it's worth noting that this gives us polite terms for gay men (liyan), lesbians (thruss), bi men (tasmar), and bi women (shaeda). I've reached out to Ed on Twitter to ask about "saece," presented as a non-derogatory term for a crossdresser, as I wonder if he'd stand by that use or have it refer to trans individuals.

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Ed has always run his Realms as more progressive (and a lot more sexual) than canon could really allow up until incredibly recently. Give his statement (linked upthread) that the most common orientation in the Realms is bisexual/pansexual, I think it would be interesting to see that explored more, and I think the need for specific, gendered terms for people of that orientation might not be necessary anymore if it truly is the default. I think it’s certainly telling of the time that there’s a term for crossdresser, but not one for a transgender and/or non-binary individual, and likewise telling that so many of those terms are listed as derogatory.

Very little in Realms canon points to any solid source of cultural homophobia in a broad sense, and between that and the aforementioned “default bisexuality” I’m not sure how necessary or plausible those slurs are.

(As an aside, how many of those terms are rooted in kink is hysterical to me. Ed runs different games than most, I assume.)

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Learned Scribe keftiu,

Yeah, I agree regarding homophobia for example, in that it isn't really a think I can point too. That is nice.

I play with enormous amounts of divisive intolerance in my campaign, largely because I play the campaign as a somewhat "regular" medieval world with levels of education, and thus, the crap that comes with it. I like that it provides people an opportunity to decide based on their characters personality if they are going to push back, move one, or do something else from an RP perspective on that kind of stuff.

Best regards,

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Originally posted by keftiu

[quote]Originally posted by cpthero2

Learned Scribe keftiu,

Yeah, I agree regarding homophobia for example, in that it isn't really a think I can point too. That is nice.

I play with enormous amounts of divisive intolerance in my campaign, largely because I play the campaign as a somewhat "regular" medieval world with levels of education, and thus, the crap that comes with it. I like that it provides people an opportunity to decide based on their characters personality if they are going to push back, move one, or do something else from an RP perspective on that kind of stuff.

Best regards,


[quote]Originally posted by cpthero2

And as a queer woman who faces plenty of that in the real world (as do the other queer folks I game with), I see no reason to bring that into a fictional setting whose creator has explicitly said there isn't such a thing.

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Originally posted by keftiu

Word from Ed! I reached out to him about the queer terminology linked in that thread from 2005, and asked what terms (if any) there were for trans people. Very pleased at his reply: https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/1235719809054236683?s=20

In brief:

-Those who are in the process of transitioning are known as "poised" across the Sword Coast and Heartlands, through trade routes into Sembia and Chessenta, but the term is regional and largely unknown beyond those areas.
-Those who have settled into an identity sometimes call themselves silder, from Elven, for "at rest after changing," originally used for animals and plants with a transformative life cycle.
-No slurs other than ul-faced, which is more commonly used for those who are erratic, two-faced, or shifting in loyalties, but is sometimes used disparagingly for those whose appearance suddenly and drastically changes - which could be used for someone who transitioned, but usually has other uses (like those who want to look like a famous individual.)

Super neat stuff!

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Learned Scribe keftiu,

I love it when Ed goes and does something like that. Gets back to some goodness from 15 years ago and makes it happen. So awesome!

So, do you feel there is more that Ed is going to distribute terminology-wise, or did that sort of hit the gamut on what people have been looking for Realms-wise?

Best regards,

quote:

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Originally posted by keftiu

Word from Ed! I reached out to him about the queer terminology linked in that thread from 2005, and asked what terms (if any) there were for trans people. Very pleased at his reply: https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/1235719809054236683?s=20

In brief:

-Those who are in the process of transitioning are known as "poised" across the Sword Coast and Heartlands, through trade routes into Sembia and Chessenta, but the term is regional and largely unknown beyond those areas.
-Those who have settled into an identity sometimes call themselves silder, from Elven, for "at rest after changing," originally used for animals and plants with a transformative life cycle.
-No slurs other than ul-faced, which is more commonly used for those who are erratic, two-faced, or shifting in loyalties, but is sometimes used disparagingly for those whose appearance suddenly and drastically changes - which could be used for someone who transitioned, but usually has other uses (like those who want to look like a famous individual.)

Super neat stuff!

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