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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 20:51:19
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If a greater demon or devil find a way in to Toril, what would be possible plots they would be likely to chase?
Are they simply about ruling Toril or destroying it?
or
Do they focus to destoy an arch enemy because of a reason?
Would they be ok about entering Toril or would they want to return back?
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 21:24:21
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| Roewyn, for a demon, it's more likely just about killing and feeding off the souls. They are often under the servitude of a wizard or priest so the demons won't have the freedom to go and do evil everywhere. It's only in a rare case like Errtu where he purposely goes after Drizzt. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Salabasha
Learned Scribe
Portugal
216 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 21:30:32
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| In general, demons would kill and devils may attempt to expand their empire (lawful nature). However, it really depends on the demon/devil, its boundaries, its powers, its history etc. that will decide what the outcome will be. |
Life is like a box of chocolates. Once you eat the poisoned one you die. |
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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 23:52:09
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Ohh, I m talking about rare things like army of darkness. Why were those three nycaloths so obsessed about Myth Dranor? They were devils but as far as I know they were amute and noone slew them.
And those old Demons. Were the dudes locked in Hellgate demons? They are imprisoned there, after they were defeated by the folks of silvermarches. If some escapes they might possibly want revenge.I undestand that.
As far as I understand both demons and devils generally have no business on toril thus they only seek revenge of sth besides Ertru. He wanted to build an empire. If any of demons or devils break loose they tend to find a nemesis and destroy it.
However, I wonder if they (especially devils) might have major plans on Toril or they simply don't care about the pathatic life forms that live there.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36791 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 01:37:49
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| There's one living in Zhentil Keep... Lord Orgauth, as I recall, is a pit fiend, and his "lady" is an erinyes or succubus (I can't keep my lower plane critters straight). |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 02:07:54
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Roewyn, Errtu's main goal wasn't to build an empire. It was to return to kill Drizzt, who had banished him before back to the Abyss.
As for the Army of Darkness, it was because one of those three nycaloths was imprisoned by an elven mage who lived in Myth Drannor. When he died, the magic that held the nycaloth was gone and it allowed the devil to escape and teleport in other devils too.
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"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 07:12:43
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In the Sage's FR campaign, there's a particular sly Pit Fiend operating a shadow-government in Iriaebor. He's been running the criminal underworld in the City of Spires for over 10 years now, and still very few actually know about it. He has connections to many of the more sinister power-groups across Faerun, from the Shadow-Thieves in Amn, to the Red Wizards of Thay. He operates through a number of thralls, so no mortal ever truly knows that they are dealing with a baatezu. Needless to say, this pit fiend's 'book of contracts' is large and expansive, containing the specifics of every single contract on Faerun that the Pit Fiend has ever been involved in . . . now that's a lot of souls . . . 
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 09:34:06
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You' re right DDH_101
I don't remember exactly why he was after the crystalshard
but after his banishment his main goal was killing Drizzt.
Do demons and devils get stronger taking the soul of mortals? Do they take those souls only with an arrangement or is killing the mortals enough?
Where can I learn anything about them, I nearly know nothing of neither demons nor devils. Maybe a source book may answer many of my questions. |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 09:41:32
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Hmmm, Now that would be a book worth getting one's hands on, no? Imagine the bargains thee could strike with that as collateral! |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
Edited by - The Cardinal on 27 Apr 2004 09:42:47 |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 09:57:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Roewyn
You' re right DDH_101
I don't remember exactly why he was after the crystalshard
but after his banishment his main goal was killing Drizzt.
Do demons and devils get stronger taking the soul of mortals? Do they take those souls only with an arrangement or is killing the mortals enough?
Where can I learn anything about them, I nearly know nothing of neither demons nor devils. Maybe a source book may answer many of my questions.
From the Sage -
quote:
Tanar'ri (Demons) are creatures of the Abyss who use the power and hatred of their plane to evolve. A manes, a primitive spirit who was usually once mortal, manages to become a dretch by earning the respect and fear of its fellows, or by being transformed into a more advanced form by a nalfeshnee.
Non-tanar'ri in the Abyss can usually be identified because their species doesn't naturally evolve into greater forms. Bodaks and other undead, for example, or things with the fiendish or half-fiendish templates. Anything that's just a beast or animal, or a plant, wouldn't be a tanar'ri; tanar'ri are always outsiders.
Baatezu (Devils) are something very different. Baator does have extremely rigid laws, and only those creatures who are first melted down into lemures are permitted into the baatezu hierarchy. The process of becoming a lemure "purifies" it, burning away remnants of chaos and good or unapproved law. Imps, which are also made from larvae, are an impure form of evil, though useful. If they are successful in their missions, they may be melted down into lemures and allowed to join the race.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 10:10:29
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Roewyn, the best tome you can have on demons and devils, is the 2e "Planescape" sourcebook, Faces of Evil: The Fiends. It is considered by most planar fans to be the best resource on fiends.
However, that tome can be very hard to find. As such, GRR have recently released Book of Fiends, which is a 3.5e update for their previously released double sourcebooks Legions of Hell and Armies of the Abyss. Both of these are also good fiend resources, and they are also more readily available.
There are a few other devil/demon books on the market, but most don't approach the level of detail of the tomes I've already mentioned.
Aside from all this, there's the various WotC monster books. Most, like MM, and MMII, the Fiend Folio, and even the Book of Vile Darkness all cover demons and devils to some degree.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 19:24:40
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Thanks for all the info Lady Kazandra
and those tomes certainly will help
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 20:00:00
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| Everyone should get the Book of Vile Darkness. If you thought the characters on Faerun were badasses, wait till you read about the ones inside the book. Lol. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31713 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 07:43:09
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Remember though DDH_101, the Tanar'ri Lords, and Arch-Devils that are detailed in the BoVD have been significantly "de-powered" since the high-magic days of 2e. They are no longer as 'great' as they once were  .
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 07:49:47
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Remember though DDH_101, the Tanar'ri Lords, and Arch-Devils that are detailed in the BoVD have been significantly "de-powered" since the high-magic days of 2e. They are no longer as 'great' as they once were .
At least in published lore... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31713 Posts |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 08:32:46
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No, not really, mainly because I haven't had any cause to find or need such.
However, if I do need it, I'm likely to go against the BoVD and make them more than slightly more powerful... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31713 Posts |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 08:48:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
As would I.
I've always thought that Asmodeus should be more powerful, considering his position.
And if you're going by 3e, all the hints towards Asmodeus' history forced into the MotP... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31713 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 08:51:28
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Hmmm... you know, I may just make a conversion of Asmodeus's 2e stats. It shouldn't be that difficult, just ignore what has been presented about him in BoVD...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 08:58:27
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| I'd do it myself, except for a lack of said 2e stats... |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 14:53:56
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Remember though DDH_101, the Tanar'ri Lords, and Arch-Devils that are detailed in the BoVD have been significantly "de-powered" since the high-magic days of 2e. They are no longer as 'great' as they once were .
They are? Why is that? In fact, I noticed a lot of the characters in FR were "reduced" in power in 3E. For example, Larloch and Shuruppak. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31713 Posts |
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Narad Bladesinger
Learned Scribe
Finland
170 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 16:18:22
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Roewyn, Errtu's main goal wasn't to build an empire. It was to return to kill Drizzt, who had banished him before back to the Abyss.
As for the Army of Darkness, it was because one of those three nycaloths was imprisoned by an elven mage who lived in Myth Drannor. When he died, the magic that held the nycaloth was gone and it allowed the devil to escape and teleport in other devils too.
Actually, they remained in a unseen 'cage'(a small planar pocket, if I remember correctly) hanging above Myth Drannor after their imprisonment. They were freed, when a red dragon which had never known hate in it's heart flew above their prison. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 18:22:19
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| Was it like that? Hmm... I must have got my info mixed up. Thanks for the correction. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Narad Bladesinger
Learned Scribe
Finland
170 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 19:06:37
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No problem 
Found a pdf. from web (don't remember where) called 'the Fall of Myth Drannor' and it had it all. You might wanna check that out |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 00:02:11
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I actually have that. It's just that I don't remember all the information from it.
BTW, are the ruins of Myth Drannor still full of devils? Why don't anyone go and clean them out? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36791 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 01:18:40
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
BTW, are the ruins of Myth Drannor still full of devils? Why don't anyone go and clean them out?
I'm not certain, but I believe there are still some hanging out in the fallen City of Song.
As to why they've not been cleaned out, it's not exactly the easiest tasking. Not only are you dealing with what can be some formidable foes, but you're doing it in a place that's crawling with all sorts of other baddies and where magic isn't always reliable. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31713 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 05:21:11
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
I actually have that. It's just that I don't remember all the information from it.
BTW, are the ruins of Myth Drannor still full of devils? Why don't anyone go and clean them out?
DDH_101, your question has been answered already, in the now-famous [i]Questions for Ed Greenwood sroll.
Here's the answer again, in case you've missed it -
quote:
In an epic battle, the Knights closed and destroyed the “Burial Glen” portal in westernmost ruined Myth Drannor. However, that doesn’t mean they got ALL of the devils already infesting the ruins. Many hid in gates and extra-dimensional ‘safeholds’ (many elves of the city before its ruin constructed lone, secret ‘refuge’ chambers reachable only in certain ways, and most of these are still in existence), or just fled into the forest. Adventurer incursions and elven explorations of the ruins since have scoured all, or almost all, of the devils out of the ruins . . . but that still leaves a whole lot of Cormanthor for lesser devils to lurk in. If you do find any, they’ll be lone, lurking individuals, not swaggering bands.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 06:28:39
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What about Hellgate?
What kind of demons are dwelling there and are there many of them?
I heard that some escaped somehow and attacked silvermarches. But they were deffeated and imprisoned with an artifact.
Can they find a way to escape again? |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 06:34:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Roewyn
What about Hellgate?
What kind of demons are dwelling there and are there many of them?
I heard that some escaped somehow and attacked silvermarches. But they were deffeated and imprisoned with an artifact.
Can they find a way to escape again?
The fiends did march on Sundabar and Silverymoon, yes, burning large portions of Sundabar. Then they went after the Mistmaster, who, with the aid of some Harpers, destroyed the Keep. Any remaining fiends were cleared out, and Turlang marched the High Forest to enclose the keep, to prevent adventurers from getting in... |
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Demon and Devil plots on Toril
