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Rucka
Acolyte
USA
8 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Apr 2004 : 20:02:36
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Begging forgiveness in advance if this is the wrong place to post this question; for some reason, I'm having incredibly difficulty accessing and navigating the forums.
I'm trying to find a definitive ruling on the scourge as a weapon for a follower of Loviatar. According to 3ed FR, the scourge "is a multitailed, barbed whip." A whip has reach of 15', and delivers non-lethal damage. Does the scourge have reach? If so, how much? Does it deliver non-lethal damage? I suspect no to the latter, but I would think it had some reach in the case of the former.
Any help would be appreciated, and again, humble apologies if I have posted in the wrong forum.
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RogueAssassin
Learned Scribe
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2004 : 20:34:36
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Im pretty sure that a scourge is just a whip that does normal dmg.
-The Rogue |
"Spirit. Its a Heros strength, a mothers resiliance, and the poor mans armor. It cannot be broken and it cannot be taken away. This i must belive"---Drizzt Do'Urden |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 06:45:35
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I'll second that, though I'd up the normal whip damage.
I'm sure I've seen this someplace, but I can't remember where . . . . |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 08:51:21
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Personally, I wouldn't think that it has the same reach. I've not heard of any nearly as long as a bullwhip for example. I always think Cat o' Nine Tails when I think of a scourge, meaning it probably only has a 5' reach like most standard weapons. However, it probably would do lethal damage, but not a heck of a lot, and not allow strength bonuses.
However, with that said, I've not seen any sort of write up for one for 3.x.
Sarta |
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kahonen
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 12:06:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarta
I always think Cat o' Nine Tails when I think of a scourge, meaning it probably only has a 5' reach like most standard weapons.
Sarta
I tend to think the same.
Isn't it a scourge which religious fanatics use on themselves? |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 13:15:16
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Yes it is, to a degree.
They used a scourge to flagellate themselves.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 18:07:15
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Scourge: 20GP, damage 1d8, critical x2, range -, weight 2lbs, type slashing.
A scourge is a multitailed, barbed whip. The scourge is often dipped in poison delivered by injury (such as greenblood oil, medium-sized spider venom, or large scorpion venom.) With a scourge, you get a +2 bonus on your opposed attack roll when attempting to disarm an enemy (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if you fail to disarm your enemy).
You can also use this weapon to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the scourge to avoid being tripped.
So says page 97 of the FRCS. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 26 Apr 2004 20:22:50 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 20:07:29
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| Ah, of course. Forgot to look there. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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RogueAssassin
Learned Scribe
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 21:34:08
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Yeah i had looked for it for like 15 minutes but i thought it to be in the Song and Silence or The Sword and Fist books, didnt think to look in FRCS. Bleh
-The Rogue |
"Spirit. Its a Heros strength, a mothers resiliance, and the poor mans armor. It cannot be broken and it cannot be taken away. This i must belive"---Drizzt Do'Urden |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 23:06:11
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Scourge: 20GP, damage 1d8, critical x2, range -, weight 2lbs, type slashing.
A scourge is a multitailed, barbed whip. The scourge is often dipped in poison delivered by injury (such as greenblood oil, medium-sized spider venom, or large scorpion venom.) With a scourge, you get a +2 bonus on your opposed attack roll when attempting to disarm an enemy (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if you fail to disarm your enemy).
You can also use this weapon to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the scourge to avoid being tripped.
So says page 97 of the FRCS.
Hi Kuje! nice to see you here too! (I just recently joined these forums and saw that Dargoth and Wooly are also here! coolness!)
As for the Scourge, I find it unbalanced: it's definitely underpowered. The Flail, a one-handed martial weapon, does the same damage, offers the same combat options. FRCS Scourge is an Exotic Weapon...
As per the SRD, the flail offers these: "Flail or Heavy Flail: With a flail, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an enemy (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails).
You can also use this weapon to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the flail to avoid being tripped."
Now, the Scourge offers the same deal, so instead to switching it to a Martial weapon and reduce its coolness factor, I have added some "Whip" properties to it, as suggested by the flavor text of the FRCS which states "A scourge is a multitailed, barbed whip."
As such, I have added the following whip abilities to the scourge (all taken from the whip description in the SRD):
" - The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don’t threaten the area into which you can make an attack. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere within your reach (including adjacent foes).
- Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon
"
As you can see, my Scourge is basically like a whip, except it deals more damage (all of it lethal) and cannot be finessed. Balanced in my opinion... |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 23:30:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Hi Kuje! nice to see you here too! (I just recently joined these forums and saw that Dargoth and Wooly are also here! coolness!)
As for the Scourge, I find it unbalanced: it's definitely underpowered. The Flail, a one-handed martial weapon, does the same damage, offers the same combat options. FRCS Scourge is an Exotic Weapon...
As per the SRD, the flail offers these: "Flail or Heavy Flail: With a flail, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an enemy (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails).
You can also use this weapon to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the flail to avoid being tripped."
Now, the Scourge offers the same deal, so instead to switching it to a Martial weapon and reduce its coolness factor, I have added some "Whip" properties to it, as suggested by the flavor text of the FRCS which states "A scourge is a multitailed, barbed whip."
As such, I have added the following whip abilities to the scourge (all taken from the whip description in the SRD):
" - The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don’t threaten the area into which you can make an attack. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere within your reach (including adjacent foes).
- Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon
"
As you can see, my Scourge is basically like a whip, except it deals more damage (all of it lethal) and cannot be finessed. Balanced in my opinion...
I came here after getting my warnings about the "novel" discussions. :) But see my thread here on the boards about that since it's off topic.
Now that I think about it you are right the scourge is a little weak but I'm not one to discuss balance with because it's not some thing I concern myself with. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 05:02:35
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Now that I think about it you are right the scourge is a little weak but I'm not one to discuss balance with because it's not some thing I concern myself with. :)
I have no such compunctions. I don't think it is unbalanced at all. It is true to the weapon.
If anything, I feel it does too much damage. Historically scourges were not designed to kill one's opponent, but to punish or torture them. While I'm sure many did die from being flagellated by scourges, quite a few others were able to take multiple hits.
While one conclusion may be that these real life people were higher level, I'd rather think that the human body's capacity for punishment does not have nearly the same wide-sweeping scale that D&D's level system provides.
At a d8 of damage, this would mean that the average peasant will usually die within a minute of being hit twice with one. I would think that a d4 is far more representative of the amount of damage that a scourge dishes out. It is still a lethal weapon, but allows a wielder far more latitude to stop before killing one's opponent.
Sarta |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 02:12:51
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| Perhaps it is not representative of a real-world scourge, I'll give you that, but in pure game mechanics terms, it is unmistakeably underpowered. The problem, I believe, is that it hasn't been updated to 3.5 yet. When/if it is, I'll use it as described, but until then, might as well have your PC use a flail and call it a scourge for flavor... that way you don't blow a valuable feat for naught. |
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The Scourge
