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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Apr 2005 : 23:20:19
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Well, they did try to strip him of his godhood in court........which amounts to the same thing as war.
Incorrect. They are deities, and they are required by Ao to do their duties and fulfill the tenets of their portfolio. The trial was called for by Mystra, who was fulfilling a personal vendetta, and the basis of the trial was that Cyric was not doing his job.
It was not a war, or anything close to it. It was more like a lawsuit. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2005 : 13:07:16
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| It is quite interesting to hear deities banding against Shar, but Shar is notably a greater power and controls the Shadow Weave plus strengthened and backed by X(just to represent the possible nimber) number of followers. Will they the allied deities truly defeat her? |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2005 : 14:47:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
It is quite interesting to hear deities banding against Shar, but Shar is notably a greater power and controls the Shadow Weave plus strengthened and backed by X(just to represent the possible nimber) number of followers. Will they the allied deities truly defeat her?
I think the right alliance could give Shar problems and/or defeat her. The main question I fall back to is why. Why would such deities take such a risk and put into motion a chain of events that may leave countless followers dead as well as innocent bystanders? |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2005 : 17:32:54
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| Maybe....(I`m speculating) They would see Shars goal of destroying just about everything as a direct threat against them. At least I would. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2005 : 17:39:11
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
It is quite interesting to hear deities banding against Shar, but Shar is notably a greater power and controls the Shadow Weave plus strengthened and backed by X(just to represent the possible nimber) number of followers. Will they the allied deities truly defeat her?
I think the right alliance could give Shar problems and/or defeat her. The main question I fall back to is why. Why would such deities take such a risk and put into motion a chain of events that may leave countless followers dead as well as innocent bystanders?
That's my question, as well. War among deities is not something to be undertaken lightly. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2005 : 17:43:51
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Maybe....(I`m speculating) They would see Shars goal of destroying just about everything as a direct threat against them. At least I would.
But, can't that be dealt with via ways other than open war? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2005 : 17:58:41
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Maybe....(I`m speculating) They would see Shars goal of destroying just about everything as a direct threat against them. At least I would.
Many deities have goals that go against the interests of other deities. Cyric, for example, wants to rule everything. But again, no one has gone to war against him...
Wanting to do something and being able to do it are totally separate things. Just because Shar wants oblivion, that doesn't mean that she can achieve it.
If Shar had some definite plan she was working on, with a timetable and everything, that had a reasonable chance of destroying all of creation (at least in Realmspace), then the other deities might at that time go to war against her. What would be more likely, though, is that they would dispatch followers and divine servants to take steps to counter this plan. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 13 Apr 2005 17:59:20 |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2005 : 20:52:25
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Dont forget that most sites of worship to the Lady of Loss are unknown, fitted with nigh-impenetrable defenses, or surrounded by temples of other powerful evil deities.
So, what few of the known temples would an alliance of say, Mystra, Helm, the Triad and Selune attack? The Hall of Shadows in the City of Shade? That'd be a suicide run. The Temple of Old Night in the undercity of Calimport? Right, and deal with the servants of a dozen evil deities who simply won't miss the chance to take out a huge amount of their rivals at their doorsteps - not to mention possible Drow involvement.
Nah... Open battle won't cut it against Shar. |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2005 : 14:11:24
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| If you wanted to strike a serious blow against Shar, what would work? Killing her worshippers might be a good idea but those bastards hide themselves so well that they are worse to get rid of than mice infesting your house in the summer(believe me, I`ve tried, but some always survive) |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 05:45:49
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| To kill her worshippers so as to strike a major blow against her, I think attacking Shade Enclave would be first definite option. Though it might cost a high price, at least the enclave possess about 25,000 worshippers who worship Shar as their patron deity, plus the 500 or less shades in the city as well. This will seriously deal a blow to her. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
Edited by - Shadovar on 15 Apr 2005 05:46:40 |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 06:12:19
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| True. But name one Faerunian faction that could accomplish such a feat. Thay, MAYBE. But only if they band together - which won't happen. Plus Shade is far too interesting an ally to destroy, and Shar holds influence there as well.. |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 06:46:44
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***SPOILER???***
Actually... there is one. If you have Lost Empires of Faerun, there is a Netherese city in Selune's Domain right now that if called back to Faerun, would go and attack the Shade Enclave. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 09:18:57
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Well, interesting replies, a Netherese City in Selune's domain, thats a very interesting fact. But I really wonder will they really go attack shade enclave as there might be blood related relatives in both cities, also, much of shade enclave population are mere normal mortals or near mortals save the 500 or so shades in the enclave. So it is quite hard for me to say whether those Netherese under Selune will attack their own fellow Netherese especially if there may be relatives in the dark city.
If an direct assault is needed, to save lives and reduce casualties,I recommend attacking the Shade Enclave Mythallar with an small organized force to bring the whole Enclave down to destruction or whatever place in the various planes that will not allow their return to Toril or Faerun. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 05:54:13
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| Shadovar, but you have to remember, the Netherese city that was in Selune's domain have been there as long as the Shades have been in the Plane of Shadows. The ones that were rescued by Selune have been very grateful and are very loyal to the moon goddess. So if they do return to Faerun, why would they not go after the deity's most hated enemy's followers? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 06:51:51
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| surely, they would have blood relatives on shade enlave, relatives thought lost when the the Netheril Empire collapsed. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 12:34:15
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| I think I read somewhere that the Netherese in Selune`s domain hate the shadovar. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 15:51:22
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
I think I read somewhere that the Netherese in Selune`s domain hate the shadovar.
As DDH mentioned one of the adventure seeds/hooks in the Netheril chapter had that Netherese city returning to wage war against the shadovar. I think while that might not explicitly state hate, it clearly shows how they feel about the shadovar. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 16 Apr 2005 15:53:45 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 16:11:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
surely, they would have blood relatives on shade enlave, relatives thought lost when the the Netheril Empire collapsed.
Maybe, maybe not... Netheril was a good-sized empire. Just because the people of these two cities are descended from Netherese, that doesn't mean that there's anyone who's got relatives in the other enclave.
Keep in mind that this is a fantasy world, and most people don't stray terribly far from the place of their birth.
Also, it's been 1700 years since these two cities even had the opportunity for contact. So that means that any relatives would be like 23rd cousins, 163 times removed. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 17:26:14
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| Yup, that Selunite city was quite an interesting twist. But if we go extraplanar, there's a swat of far more dangerous things... So I'm sticking to faerunian foes :) |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 19:06:09
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| You know what? Shar would never be destroyed. The Mistress of the Night is needed to keep the balance that Ao has spent thousands of years creating and maintaining. Remember what happened in Crucible when Cyric went mad? There was like no evil happening, and Faerun was basically in chaos from just a deity going mad. Imagine what would happen if Shar died... The forces of good would gain a huge advantage and throw off the whole balance. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 19:13:43
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
The forces of good would gain a huge advantage and throw off the whole balance.
And this would be bad? *wink*
Yes balance would be changed, however with dead deities not staying dead the balance shifts to some extent any way when any major event occurs. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 20:21:19
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| I don`t know if good would gain that much of an advantage, because if Shar was destroyed some evil god would take her portfolios and become much stronger before you can say: " You`ve gated us into the Throneroom of Asmodeus, haven`t you, you idiot?". |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 21:25:00
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| khorne, then that's just making one single deity a lot stronger. It's still not exactly balancing out the two sides of good and evil. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2005 : 22:38:35
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If a new deity was to grab Shar's portfolio and power, like Midnight did with Mystra or like Finder did with Moander, then the power balance wouldn't be as affected.
Further, deific power levels fluctuate without any effect on the Balance... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 00:06:52
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| Wooly, but your examples are of mortals becoming a new deity from a dead deity's portfolios. What khorne was saying was another evil deity (ex. Bane, Cyric, Mask) coming in to steal Shar's powers. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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elven_songstress
Learned Scribe
126 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 05:42:52
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I think anything is possiable, and if someone had the guts and abilities to takeon Shar and some how win, then they deserve what they get.
Her porfolio's would be easily snatched up quickly to maintain a balance so I don't think Ao would worry.
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We need to be reminded sometimes that a sunrise lasts but a few minutes,but its beauty can burnin our hearts eternally." |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 10:37:26
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| I am not excluding that some mortal somehow would take Shars portfolios after she kicks the bucket. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 17:33:04
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| Well, this "mortal" better be pretty goddamn powerful because I don't think any of the evil gods would enjoy a mortal taking so much power. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2005 : 23:47:55
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Well, this "mortal" better be pretty goddamn powerful because I don't think any of the evil gods would enjoy a mortal taking so much power.
It depends on the situation... How many evil deities complained about Cyric gaining so much power? |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 02:02:45
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Wooly, but that's because they couldn't complain. Ao was the one that offered to give those portfolios to Cyric and none of the evil gods had the power to challenge Ao.
If Shar died now, Ao would let the gods and mortals sort themselves out on who would take what. Then at the end of all the conflict, he would grant the individual(s) the divinity. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Everything about Shar and her Clergy
