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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jan 2018 : 00:55:13
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| You know, one of the things that I was thinking about when discussing the above was the desolation of the Raurin desert and how it all came about as part of the battle with the Imaskari and Mulan manifestations. What if those manifestations effectively did something SIMILAR to Tam's ritual... killing the land, and drawing power out of the land's destruction.... in order to "cement" themselves into realmspace (i.e. they were really mortals acting as weakened avatars of the gods who could only grant spells in a short range, and destroying the land itself created enough power that they were able to infuse themselves with more power such that they became manifestations of deities and were able to grant spells throughout realmspace). However, they told all their new followers that the destruction was just a result of the bad fight they had to do, and it was a big old lie. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2018 : 02:21:31
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| I always assumed the opposite - that the Imaskari killed the land with their magic while killing their enemies. |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2018 : 21:50:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
With that, we could even say that Szass Tam is 'in on' the hoax that he is still up on Thaymount, operating as usual, and in the mean time, he is planes-hopping or whatever. My love of mapping had me so taken with the idea of a Morder-like 'ebil island' off the coast, I hadn't even considered Tam NOT 'winning', and instead being 'in hiding'. We could literally put him anywhere, like Winterkeep, etc. In fact, it might be more fun - and more useful from a gaming standpoint - to have him 'move about' constantly - give him several different bases of operation. He's so paranoid now he doesn't stay in any one place too long ...
Right.
So a handful of trusted lieutenants keep up the ruse in Thay and do whatever they can to slow the Thayan forces (without access to Tam's big guns, but nobody knows this so the more they reconquer, the scarier it is to continue for the invaders that expect him to show up sooner or later) while he is busy creating new powerbase seemingly at random, giving each its imprinting so as to make it more difficult to track him.
Many of these he doesn't even care about and they can be just a bunch of necromancers or undeads or monsters showing his flag in some remote corner of Toril and endangering a single town. Some might become new "satellite" power bases, especially if he gets there while searching for an edge over Larloch (think about all the Imaskari, Raumathari and Narfellian ruins that dot eastern Fearun and the Endless Wastes or your idea of pieces of the Moonshaes - you can have multiple Mordor-style sites, each with it's own flavour!).
But the principle is the same in each case and is the most simple but effective way to protect himself: assuming Larloch can't pinpoint his location instantaneously (a fair assumption, let's give Tam some chances), scattering "sightings" and "powerbases" of himself everywhere is the best way to avoid a confrontation and buy time.
I'm still convinced Tam should seek an extraplanar or otherwordly refuge, but since those are difficult to come by and prepare (and conquer most of the times) he has to make due with a unlife on the run for some time with two interesting side effects: he becomes a "use anywhere" villain like you said and Larloch can become an occult sponsor of adventurers, in its own ultra-deep-covered attempts to weed out Tam's false leads through proxies and without expending resources.
So you can have Tam everywhere (let's not think only undeads, he can start/boost wizard cabals, play arcane-councilor to warleaders, stir humanoid tribes, open the way for extraplanar incursions and so on) and on the run, Larloch sponsoring adveturers and Thayan forces slowly retaking the Thaymount with the feeling that each victory gets them closer to a desperate confrontation with an enraged Tam ... that will never happen. |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2018 : 22:04:32
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
However, they told all their new followers that the destruction was just a result of the bad fight they had to do, and it was a big old lie.
Not everyone has to lie everytime, you know?
There is nothing in Mulhorand or in the power of their gods/manifestations/incarnations that let's us assume they can do or had to do Dark Sun defiler-style actions.
They have had a good bunch of other big confrontations (among the pantheons, with the orcs, with Thayd and then the Red Wizards), and yet only in Raurin we see that kind of devastation. If they had the chance to empower themselves by leeching off the land I doubt the orcs would have put so many of them in the dead-book.
On the other hand, as much as I can respect the Imaskari, I can see them going all out when confronted with avatar-level enemies of three pantheons, to the point of destroying their own land in a desperate attempt to win.
The only middleground I can see is if the devastation was the unintended fallout of the death of one or more of the deities (like the Helmlands in Cormyr, created by the death of Mystra the First of Her Name) but I can't remember at the moment if some of the deities from the three pantheons are reported as dying in the fighting with the Imaskari (while I'm sure the orcs killed 4 or more - without apparently loosing any of their numbers!). |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2018 : 22:26:08
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While the idea that the Mulan gods showed up and started defiling the place (after all, they do seem to like deserts, don't they?) has its merits, I had always assumed the Imaskari had a 'Doomsday Weapon' - perhaps even Pandorym himself. Supposedly he was separated into two parts to depower him - what if bringing those two parts together was just like activating a nuclear warhead? (pure unbridled primordial RAGE)
So whatever McGuffin you use, the Imaskari basically were pricks - if they couldn't win, NO-ONE WOULD. And it worked, somewhat. The Plains of Purple Dust - the very heart of their empire (and the densest population centers, Imaskari and slave alike) - were reduced to dust. The shock of that - both to the surviving Imaskari and the fleeing Mulan, would have probably ended the war right there (its akin to the Dark Disaster that befell the High Moor, or the Rain of Colorless Fire that happened to the Suel in GH... and I think all three are related... but that's a story for another time).
Funny thing is, I've always thought of all those localized cataclysms as the ultimate form of Difiler magic - someone (usually a 'circle' of someones) drains all the 'life' (Mana) from the land and then turns into into an Arcane Storm which devastates the land even more - basically, weaponizing the land against itself. It would almost be like a mini-Spellplague happening in in a specific location (the creation of the Mournland in Eberron would also be a similar event). In fact, you could even think of it as someone 'setting the Weave on fire' in a region, and as it burns itself out, it destroys everything within the zone.
The difference of course, is that no matter what happened, or precisely how it happened, I always think it was the Imaskari that set the plan in motion. They were losing, and desperate. The Mulan gods were there to 'save their people', and I think sacrificing so many for a victory doesn't seem to fit the rest of the lore. Plus, except for a couple of jerks (every pantheon has them), they just don't seem like the types to wantonly destroy nature like that. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Jan 2018 22:30:53 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2018 : 22:42:35
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So does it actually say anywhere the Mulan were from Earth? Or has that always just been an assumption?
Considering the shear number of worlds with Egypt-like cultures (nearly every one of them has one), I picture a 'Pharosphere' Crystal Sphere somewhere, where the Pharonics all came from, and they've spread outward from there. probably one of the earliest settled/completed Crystal Spheres.
In fact, it would be easy to contemplate that every major, known pantheon started out as THE pantheon for a specific setting/world/sphere, so there should be a Norsphere, A Sumerisphere (sorry, I ain't buying the Baylonians are a separate pantheon, anymore then I'd buy the Roman gods were different then the Greeks), a Shintosphere (Nipposphere?), Chinasphere (Celestiasphere?), etc, etc... and on some worlds, like FR and Earth, other shave interloped, to the point where they overpowered the native pantheon (although, if Crystal Spheres are still forming, then it might make more sense that these 'interlopings' are just how worlds get their own pantheons over time - things just 'shake themselves out' after awhile).
The only reason why I am saying this right here, right now, is because I brought up the idea (elsewhere, very recently) that Wee Jas is just GH's version of Mystra (really, the pre-split version of Shar/Selūne), and that Hecate might be the version for an Olympian-run sphere. Thus Isis might just be another version of Mystra as well - one from a Pharosphere.
And now I have the picture of a Crystal Sphere filled with HUGE pyramids revolving around the sun, instead of normal planets.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Jan 2018 22:45:39 |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2018 : 22:47:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And now I have the picture of a Crystal Sphere filled with HUGE pyramids revolving around the sun, instead of normal planets.
They don't have portals there, they've Stargates. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2018 : 07:32:22
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I'd say you just need to rewrite the whole of Thay. Instead of Tam seeking divinity, Tam's instead succeeded in reuniting Thay with himself as the Zulkir Eminent, then stepped down from the job when he was satisfied that Thay could govern itself to go do whatever it is 30th level liches do. For potential irony, Velsharoon intervened and empowered Tam as his proxy, so Tam's off-plane for the moment.
That removes Tam and sets up an opportunity for new Zulkirs, gives a potential plotline (what are the liches planning for Thay?) and so on. Maybe Zalathorm's gone missing too, and it turns out that he's now Savras's proxy as part of a long-running game he has with Velsharoon to resurrect Mystra and get a boost in power in the bargain. Zalathorm and Szass engage in teeth-clenched teamwork while the PCs find themselves embroiled in plots culminating in an audience with the All-Seeing and the Lord of Necromancy, and eventually find themselves matched against the mightiest of Shar's and Cyric's servants while Mystra is slowly being resurrected. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2018 : 15:57:47
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| Is Zalathorm not dead? Like since 2nd ed? |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2018 : 17:16:05
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| Zalathorm's still alive as of 1372 DR. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2018 : 02:05:14
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| Well, this was just my way of imagining getting Thay back to being Thay like it used to be, without violating canon. So basically, the whole problem becomes getting rid of Uber-Tam after he won the war, but failed with the Dread Rings, but in such a way that there is still his 'shadow' hanging over the land. In other words, change, without change. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Another take on Thay 5.0
