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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12094 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Feb 2017 : 03:29:23
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| Hmmm, definitely fits with the weird idea I had going with Velsharoon having ascended while sharing his spirit also with two former gods. He may have to do some kind of purge on his system to either get those deities dead.... or allow them to again gain their divinity somehow. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ari
Acolyte
40 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2017 : 04:19:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
First please do not bring gender equivality into Realms. It is one of the most accepting world I know.
However I think that you are right in that this woman (Lord Shadow's wife) should have been more prominent in this story as Shar prefers women. Could she have been former high priestess of Shar before Rivalen killed her? She almost had to be from some higher position for him to take her as wife but we know almost nothing about her.
So her name was Alashar (according to FR wiki)...
Sorry, it's a little personal to me so it can be hard to not comment. No offense meant.
That sounds like an excellent idea. And it would fit with both the symbolic nature of the killing(I am stronger than the status quo) and the very real need of the Shadovar Netherese for stability and continuity of government. Their whole world is gone, they were plunged into a murky realm of shadows that drink blood, only by the might and mercy of their patron goddess did they have a prayer and Shar isn't the kind to forget when she's owed something.
Incidents like the Greeley Arctic expedition and the raft of the Medusa show pretty clearly how much not just strength but predictability counts in leaders keeping order. Marrying the High Priestess of Shar/taking (the heir of?) a High Arcanist for husband wouldn't just make political sense, it'd send a comforting message to the other Shadovar. Taking it one step further than Alexander of Macedon: "Nothing has changed, not even the name of the king!"
Though that name, Alashar, makes me wonder about all the other people/places in the Realms with 'shar' in their name. It's a little hard to see anyone wanting to allude to the all-consuming forces of darkness and eternal night if they don't largely owe their current existence to said all-consuming eternal. I know some of it is just because of random name generators, also lazy accidents, but I still wonder about it. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2017 : 06:22:58
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Paul Kemp did a short story on her death in "Realms of War".
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2017 : 10:07:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Ari
Though that name, Alashar, makes me wonder about all the other people/places in the Realms with 'shar' in their name. It's a little hard to see anyone wanting to allude to the all-consuming forces of darkness and eternal night if they don't largely owe their current existence to said all-consuming eternal. I know some of it is just because of random name generators, also lazy accidents, but I still wonder about it.
The average person in the Realms, when referencing Shar, isn't thinking about all-consuming darkness and eternal night. They're referencing to someone that represents darkness, secrecy, and relief from the pain of loss. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12094 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2017 : 13:41:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Besides, if she used two different avatars, even Freud would have to be okay with it.
And if she is/was as bat-crap crazy as I am starting to think she is, she has multiple-personality disorder (something I would imagine 'gods' are prone to), and she may not even be aware she was also his mother.
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
...It's funny, the portrayal of gods as behaving like petulant spoiled children (in both the Realms and in Mythology), while we mortals shake our heads and say to ourselves "Aren't they supposed to be the ones acting like grown-ups instead of us?"... To be very much reflective of a dynamic I've seen between Adults and their aging parents... Especially after an Adult begins raising their own children and assume the mantle of responsibility for their family, their aging parents attitudes/behaviors/memories/emotions start becoming perceived as more erratic/inconsistent/childish...
A deity with Alzheimer's/dimentia? 
Thats not only VERY frightening, it could explain a LOT. The older a deity gets, and the more times its had to 'split' itself (for whatever reason), the more 'fractured' its mind becomes. The oldest deities would be the CRAZIEST,,, hence, 'Elder Evils'.
Thats a nifty little concept ya' got there. Its got tons of traction. Novel-worthy even. You've just added a whole 'nother tier to the 'circle of life' (new gods MUST kill the old gods... before they destroy everything).
"All the gods are mad, Berk, some are just madder than others"
----- Galivar of the Bleak Cabal,
mere moments before he was murdered by an agent of a mad god
Hmmmm, also fits with the whole Lolth splitting herself thing as well. Just wondering, officially did she ever join all those separate entities back into one? I could have sworn I read a blurb somewhere that said she did, but I could have read it on a forum as well knowing my memory. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2017 : 20:46:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Ari
Sorry, it's a little personal to me so it can be hard to not comment. No offense meant.
That sounds like an excellent idea. And it would fit with both the symbolic nature of the killing(I am stronger than the status quo) and the very real need of the Shadovar Netherese for stability and continuity of government. Their whole world is gone, they were plunged into a murky realm of shadows that drink blood, only by the might and mercy of their patron goddess did they have a prayer and Shar isn't the kind to forget when she's owed something.
Incidents like the Greeley Arctic expedition and the raft of the Medusa show pretty clearly how much not just strength but predictability counts in leaders keeping order. Marrying the High Priestess of Shar/taking (the heir of?) a High Arcanist for husband wouldn't just make political sense, it'd send a comforting message to the other Shadovar. Taking it one step further than Alexander of Macedon: "Nothing has changed, not even the name of the king!"
Though that name, Alashar, makes me wonder about all the other people/places in the Realms with 'shar' in their name. It's a little hard to see anyone wanting to allude to the all-consuming forces of darkness and eternal night if they don't largely owe their current existence to said all-consuming eternal. I know some of it is just because of random name generators, also lazy accidents, but I still wonder about it.
I think about it as that it has a meaning that I just probably do not know. For exaple Shaar savana bother me for long time...
Lets say that Alashar was a high priestess of Shar from dedicated family that had already some planar (shadow plane?) infusion so her name is in the honor of Shar with prefix Ala (like Alu-fiend) meaning related to Shar. She married Lord Shadow only later when whole enclave was "saved" from the fall of Netheril by the will of Shar (it seems quite obvious "coincidence" that they phased just before Karsus Folly). To stabilize the situation he embraced Shar as his formal patron (she would be probably already his personal diety but it might not be so popular in Netheril with all that Mystryl around). For that he and his family were changed to Shades as a reward that would be later given also to other worthy candidates from city (they might also just find a way to make the change by the will of Shar later as they use arcanist ritual for it).
Why she was killed by Rivalen is another question maybe it was Rivalens ambition that drove him to claim her post by killing her. That would be in sinc with his drive to make his own place on Toril once they returned (lifting Sakkors and making it his enclave). |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2017 : 20:48:25
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Paul Kemp did a short story on her death in "Realms of War".
-- George Krashos
Could you be so kind to tell me the dark of it? I am interested only in lore to not spoil the story for me or others. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2017 : 21:25:11
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"Can I get the 'Lady A'la Shar, and, ummm... I'll have a shake with that". 
Most of the place names do have a connection with Shar, although how much so is a matter of conjecture (for example, a valley could have 'shar' in the name, just because its in the shadows of the mountains around it). Ed has also confirmed to me (in his thread) that THE Shaar is so named because of a connection to Shar, but he would elaborate no further (see my example above - it may just be trivial... or not).
That Telemont's wife may have been a high Priestess makes a lot of sense, and deities are known to possess the bodies of their followers for various reasons, procreation being one of them.
In one of my posts above (and thanks to Cyrinishad's RW observations) I mentioned deities 'going mad' slowly over time because of all the times they are forced to 'split' their minds. the most obvious and probably most common example of this is when they create (self-aware) Avatars. It must be a bit of a system-shock every time the re-merge these bits back into themselves, having two different sets of memories for the same exact time frame. Likely a minor headache at the time, but such things could easily build-up over millennia, causing mental illness. There are also instances where they absorb other beings (and depending on the power-level of that being how much effort it would take to suppress those alternate memories and persona), or are absorbed themselves (only to be 'spit out' at a later date, which would probably drive anyone mad), or purposely merge with other gods to create an amalgam/tripartite deity, or even a mortal to create a major Manifestation (we need a new word for those things - its too confusing with regular godly manifestations. Too bad 'proxy' is taken - how about 'Exemplar' - a human that has been conjoined with a deific avatar?)
So all these instances of releasing some power into a self-aware form, and sometimes absorbing them back, and other times giving them away to create something new (like causing a demi-power to ascend), or absorbing someone else's - this would create layers upon layers of different memories, and would become harder and harder - even for a 'god' - to separate them all over time. In the case of someone like Cyric, he probably created too many avatars too soon, and couldn't handle it so close to his own ascension, and that's what drove him from just being an evil git to being stark-raving mad. Maybe he even absorbed a few lesser quasi-divine beings as well (I thought there was at least one deity he usurped/absorbed, aside from the Dark Three).
And then we have the Dark Three - absorbing all that already-crazy divinity from the Seven Lost Gods, and then also getting some of Jergal's power as well (imagine having a sliver of Jergal inside your head!)
Its no wonder the gods act like idiots, or petulent children - the 'Heavens' are a damn insane asylum! |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Feb 2017 21:28:42 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2017 : 01:28:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Paul Kemp did a short story on her death in "Realms of War".
-- George Krashos
Could you be so kind to tell me the dark of it? I am interested only in lore to not spoil the story for me or others.
The story is first set in -365 DR and has a few interesting features.
Firstly, Paul Kemp makes it clear that Telamont Tanthul is not the "Lord Shadow" of the Netheril boxed set, commenting that he is about to be elevated to the office of Most High, ruler of the Shade Enclave.
It details Rivalen's murder of his mother to cement his bond with Shar.
The death of Alashar was the catalyst for Telamont becoming a Shar worshipper himself.
It sets up Varra's passage into the future, carrying Cale's child.
It also ushers in the piece of luck that allows Brennus to discover Rivalen's matricide.
It provides little detail on Alashar herself.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2017 : 20:07:46
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So then she couldn't have been a Shar priestess, and probably not even a worshiper?
If Shar desired her death, maybe the mother was (secretly?) a priestess of Mystra instead? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2017 : 01:14:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So then she couldn't have been a Shar priestess, and probably not even a worshiper?
If Shar desired her death, maybe the mother was (secretly?) a priestess of Mystra instead?
Where do you see that she couldn't be a priestess? Do you think that Shar wouldn't let her priestesses be killed for a purpose?
Thank you George for enlightening us. It still feels to me like somebody's interpretation of the lore and not the lore itself. I will probably stick to priestess version. |
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Telamont making Shade before he was born
