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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Oct 2017 : 21:47:52
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I think I've said before that each "archetype", to use that word, is still an independent entity. The Corellon of Toril is separate from the Corellon of Grayhwak, even if they could from the same "Corellon energy/matter".
Or, just to throw this out there as food for thought, what if each deity is in fact entirely separate? The universe is chaotic, but there can also be patterns. Based on this, if there is a Corellon of Grawyhwak, there has to be a Corellon (or Corellon-like god) of another world, too. Of course, the Seldarine are immigrant deities, so they came from elsewhere, anyway. It's kind of like the idea that in another dimension, there is another "you", but your life plays out differently.
As for the five main PC resemblance...hmm, I had a thought on this, but that was early this morning, and I've forgotten it. I've gotten a new job, and I have a lot to learn, so I forgot most of what I planned to post XD. I think it was something along the lines of perhaps the "PC deities" saw other gnome, dwarf, and elf gods, and they liked the way they looked (in dimensions even older than the Torilian universe, or wherever they immigrated from). |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2017 : 05:14:31
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| That's assuming you use a different cosmology. There's no reason why the same deity couldn't be worshipped on multiple worlds. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2017 : 20:14:14
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Well, yeah. Whereas I used to completely go with what CorellonsDevout said above, with the 4e/5e lore now, the different versions of different gods isn't really a thing anymore.
In fact, the only reason why I keep that concept floating around is because of stupid Bane, because its the only way to explain whats going on with him.
The gods don't live on the worlds (only the demipowers ever did), they live in the planes. So you would have just one Corellon (The archtype), and he would send Avatars to the various worlds, whenever he needed to, and those avatars may look and behave different, depending upon the beliefs of the group he is sending it to. I'd probably add a caveat to the rules regarding avatars from 3e's DD - I would say multispheric powers get a number of avatars equal to their DvR, + 1 per world they have a presence on. Because for a person like Corellon - who probably is worshiped on a thousand worlds - 20 avatars is just not enough.
Hmmm, maybe an archtype can have aspects for each world, and then each aspect gets its own avatars depending on power-level on the world in question? Thats pretty convoluted, though, and now we are getting back to the mess that was 2e's planer lore. Or maybe turn DvR into usable points, to 'buy' avatars, and there could be different strength ones.
Type I Avatar: Basically, little more than a powerful mortal, maybe equivalent to lev. 10-12 (costs 1/12 of a DvR pt. to make)
Type II Avatar: 'Standard' Avatar, is pretty much a demipower. If the god loses it, he is temporarily reduced 1 DvR
Type III Avatar: Costs 6(?) standard avatars to make, equivalent to a lesser power (so, true god, but still not 'full strength')
An avatar gets destroyed, the God losses that power (DvR) and can 'heal' it at the rate of 1pt. per year (so 1/12 of a pt. per month). Minor manifestations ('signs and portents') cost nothing, or so little it doesn't matter. Treat them like very powerful illusions that mortals cannot 'disbelieve'.
Not that any of this should ever come into play - I just need to know whats going on, so people don't ask questions like, "why doesn't a god just create a 1000 copies of himself and create his own army?" Every god has at least a dozen other gods looking for a moment of weakness. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2017 : 23:03:39
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I just want to ask something: why people says that Qotal = Bahamut?
As an avid fan of all draconic, and the guy who updated Bahamut's article on the wiki, I can say this: Bahamut cannot be Qotal, just because Qotal is the dickiest god ever. Bahamut being a dick would be against the whole concept of Bahamut, in fact.
"Lawful god"? Hah, the term must have been pretty much different in 2e than its "lawful-stupid" 3.x incarnation.
(No. Zero is not reading Maztica's history right now) |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 23 Oct 2017 23:07:47 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2017 : 00:13:11
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| LOL, sorry, I had to laugh at "dickiest god ever" XD. That phrase made me chuckle. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2017 : 02:49:48
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| Most deities have servants and proxies. The uber-meddlers and the ones most protective of their flck should be the demipowers; they need the worship and bestowing cool bling on prospective followers is a good way to build up a clergy. Greater powers can afford to be distant and work through intermediaries and planar minions, but the lesser powers and the demipowers are the ones who tend to get their hands dirty by directly intervening. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2017 : 02:57:18
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Most deities have servants and proxies. The uber-meddlers and the ones most protective of their flck should be the demipowers; they need the worship and bestowing cool bling on prospective followers is a good way to build up a clergy. Greater powers can afford to be distant and work through intermediaries and planar minions, but the lesser powers and the demipowers are the ones who tend to get their hands dirty by directly intervening.
That's pretty much how I run it. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2017 : 04:43:57
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Me as well. I use priests and churches (religions/cults) all the time, but not the gods themselves. There is no need for that - its heavy-handed.
I don't think Bahamut = Qotal. I used to have a theory where Tiamat and Bahamut were aspects of (the trapped) Ahriman and Jazirian, and then I had another weird theory about them being originally chaotic (just to give us four dragons of the four main branches of the alignment tree), but I don't proscribe to any of that anymore.
By making them Eternals it solves everything, and I don't need to involve Tiamat and Bahamut who came later. It also means that Ahriman and Jazirian are so far removed from 'mortals' that we go right back to what I said about (some) primordials - its not that those powers are/were 'evil' per se, its just that we are completely beneath their notice, and if they have to wipe-out a thousand crystal spheres in order to get part of their agenda done, they would. They are trapped, just as many primordials are, and they can only send forth aspects (avatars) of themselves, but because they are such truly monolithic and ancient powers, even their aspects are stronger than most deities. Very few beings of that magnitude bother with mortals, and the few who do (like the Seldarine) probably know something the rest don't.
I do like playing Tiamat against Lolth in Maztica (in mythology, it was Tiamat that created the Scorpionmen). That she somehow pulled the Maztican Drow away from Lolth, so now they are more like the Eberron elves of Aerenal. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Oct 2017 04:45:17 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2017 : 05:10:27
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| I asked because I have saw that comparison before, every now and then. It just that reading the Maztican myths, Qotal cannot be LG, and cannot be compared with any good god. They guy is just... a dick, there is no other way to describe him. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2017 : 05:39:33
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In another thread (probably the 'Maztica Alive!' one), I had Zehir = "King of douches".  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Oct 2017 05:40:11 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2017 : 13:11:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The gods don't live on the worlds (only the demipowers ever did), they live in the planes. So you would have just one Corellon (The archtype), and he would send Avatars to the various worlds, whenever he needed to, and those avatars may look and behave different, depending upon the beliefs of the group he is sending it to. I'd probably add a caveat to the rules regarding avatars from 3e's DD - I would say multispheric powers get a number of avatars equal to their DvR, + 1 per world they have a presence on. Because for a person like Corellon - who probably is worshiped on a thousand worlds - 20 avatars is just not enough.
Hmmm, maybe an archtype can have aspects for each world, and then each aspect gets its own avatars depending on power-level on the world in question? Thats pretty convoluted, though, and now we are getting back to the mess that was 2e's planer lore. Or maybe turn DvR into usable points, to 'buy' avatars, and there could be different strength ones.
Type I Avatar: Basically, little more than a powerful mortal, maybe equivalent to lev. 10-12 (costs 1/12 of a DvR pt. to make)
Type II Avatar: 'Standard' Avatar, is pretty much a demipower. If the god loses it, he is temporarily reduced 1 DvR
Type III Avatar: Costs 6(?) standard avatars to make, equivalent to a lesser power (so, true god, but still not 'full strength')
Markustay,
Do you realize that you just came up with a decent argument for why manifestations and incarnations exist? For instance, the Mulhorandi would normally send in an avatar, but in this instance, if they did so they'd permanently lose it as maybe the power can't return. So, instead they create something similar to but different than an avatar. Maybe they even create it using a living servant who willingly sacrifices their own life to join their god and let their god fill their vessel. But doing this lets them get past the 20 avatar limit.... and thus this is a way to limit godly influence across the planes.... they just can't make that many avatars to keep their worshippers praying across possibly hundreds or thousands of crystal spheres. Meanwhile a greater god in just one world can produce avatars on a whim and thus keep his position safe. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2017 : 13:17:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
I just want to ask something: why people says that Qotal = Bahamut?
As an avid fan of all draconic, and the guy who updated Bahamut's article on the wiki, I can say this: Bahamut cannot be Qotal, just because Qotal is the dickiest god ever. Bahamut being a dick would be against the whole concept of Bahamut, in fact.
"Lawful god"? Hah, the term must have been pretty much different in 2e than its "lawful-stupid" 3.x incarnation.
(No. Zero is not reading Maztica's history right now)
Qotal = Ubtao is one that we've been floating a lot. Not sure Qotal = Bahamut. I know Markustay was floating the draconic pantheon equals the Maztican, which has some merits but I don't want to see. If anything, there's too much feather stuff for Maztica (granted there's also reptile stuff too). I think the Maztican "gods" are something else, and they've been worshipped by a lot of the early cultures. I think they latched on to humans to keep their godly essence alive and barely give a fig about the humans other than them being a source of souls. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2017 : 17:36:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
In another thread (probably the 'Maztica Alive!' one), I had Zehir = "King of douches".
After having read Maztica's history, he has been dethroned by Qotal. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2017 : 01:44:52
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What? You have something against gods who want thousands of people brutally sacrificed to them?
They're ALL like that - some just call it 'Holy Wars'.
Celebrity Death Match:
Zehir "King of Douches' vs Qotal "dickiest god ever'
And thanks, Sleyvas. I assume there'd also be a type IV and Type V, corresponding to intermediate and greater powers. Yeah, a god loses a normal Avatar, it takes a full year to get the DvR pt. back. And if they send something stronger, they run the risk of being substantially weakened for a prolonged period of time. On the other hand, if they send too weak a 'starter god' to another Crystal Sphere, it would have much less of a chance to be successful.
Also, I'm not going to work out a pt. system for godly power based upon followers (but it would be based on mortal levels, so the quality of followers would also be very important), but assume there is one, because we know gods lose power as they lose their followers, and vice-verse. Thus, a brand-new god in a crystal sphere would only have a short time to establish itself, before it 'withered'. The Mulan Gods had no such problem - even if their people had forgotten about them (a bunch of centuries had passed, didn't they?), them showing up and kicking the Imaskari's arse (and freeing all the slaves) sure would be a great way to get those people to worship you right quick.
I'm thinking they would lose maybe a DvR per year until they 'fade away' (go dormant in the astral), which means a normal avatar sent to establish a god in a new Sphere would only have that one year. The God could send a 'lesser god' aspect there, but then it would be greatly weakened.
Although I'm not really sure what the purpose of being 'Multispheric' is, when there is a level-cap on deity power of DvR 20, and you don't need to be multispheric to get that. Maybe there is a threshold you reach and you ascend even further? (like my 'Eternals' level, which is mostly made-up of folks we used to call 'Overowers'). You get to that level and then you can really make things happen. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Oct 2017 21:34:53 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2017 : 22:48:28
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Okay, so now I got some new ideas for my ever-evolving, sometimes revolving, 'Over-Cosmology'.
Basically, I've had the same idea about our (D&D) universe being a 'bubble' within the 'real' universe, which isn't nearly as much fun as ours. There are no hard rules in that (that I've dubbed 'the Elderverse'), so its mostly just pockets of stuff floating amidst vast seas of proto-matter (elemental chaos), that they themselves float in a very empty 'nothing'. In fact, most of the races that spawned there (aberrations) didn't even interact until the D&Dverse appeared and threatened them all. For those of you who have read the Wellworld series (and if you haven't, I recommend it), its like the Markovian universe, except with more types of 'Markovians' (who would fit in just fine among D&D's aberrations - they look like 6' tall hearts with tentacles). In fact, likening it to that work makes me think that the D&Dverse may have been caused by something in the Elderverse (an 'explosion of Law'?)
But recently, I've added-in that instead of our universe simply expanding and 'pushing' the Elderverse further out (and away), the Elderverse is instead FINITE, which is something new I've added. So now picture it like a balloon growing inside of a larger balloon, but the larger balloon is NOT growing (because the smaller one is actually 'gobbling up' the stuff from the larger one). That would leave those existing races (aberrations) in a bit of a pickle. In fact, I've even reasoned-out when it will hit 'critical mass' - in about 2000 years.
The other thing I've just decided about this otherverse (I sure do have a lot of different names for the Far Realms LOL) is that it didn't have gods (Estelar, or deities), but it did have its own version of Primordials - the Obyriths. These are actually a different class of being than the primordials or Estelar, because they have qualities of both, while being neither. They spawned of their own accord in that chaos, but unlike the Estelar, they were not concepts and ideas, they were just insanely powerful beings of matter and energy (like primordials). Thus, 'Chaos' made sentient.
Another thing I had decided in the past few days - while reading through ZeromaruX's excellent History of the Nentir Vale - was that all primordials could NOT have been 'created'. I had thought that was the main difference between Estelar and primordials - Estelar formed from ideas, but primordials were created to make those ideas a reality. But apparently, some primordials may have even pre-existed 'the Gods' (Estelar). So now that I've built-up my proto-pantheon to include everyone and everything, its time to start 'skimming the fat', as it were (or 'downsizing' as they call it in business).
I had considered those two tiers of primordials for a day or two, but now that I have my mind wrapped firmly around what I think the Obyrith Lords were, I think the preexisting primordials are actually Obyriths. or 'were' Obyriths, but thats just splitting hairs, again.
The Estelar show-up, and there's some uber-powerful beings already around, and those guys say, "who? Us? We're, ummm... primordials! Yeah, thats it... primordials. Just 'bigger badder' ones." As I say repeatedly, at these levels of power (and before matter even existed in the universe... probably), there is no going by what someone looks like - its all about power levels. The Estelar see these guys and are like, "Okay, they must be naturally-forming beings of elemental matter", and on many levels, they'd be right, because thats precisely what the Obyriths were... in another universe. Which is actually the SAME universe, savvy?
So the Obyriths came here from their vanishing Elderverse - all that's left of it are 'the Far Realms' - and although they initially came here to put a stop to this universe, some of them have changed their agendas (seeing that this new universe is somewhat more interesting than the old one, in may ways). To be con't... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Oct 2017 23:06:23 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2017 : 22:57:48
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Keep in mind that some gods (or Estelar, if you prefer) didn't spring from ideas, either, as they were around before mortals. I guess you could say they were "ideas" of the universe, in a metaphorical sense, but I wouldn't call it "ideas" in the way we think of the concept.
I still need to read Zeromaru's Nentir Vale. I've just been preoccupied. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2017 : 23:01:43
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| Dender/Jormungandr is Cthulu [;P] LOL |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2017 : 23:02:57
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Continued...
The illithids hold the key. They are lawful, as is Ilsensine. I was going to make it an Obyrith, but I can't. Not really (although there are lawful demons). The back-story I've put together for the illithids isn't like the other aberrations. I'm starting to think their presence might be an accident. I'm toying with the idea of making them 'magical beasts' of the Elderverse (they are parasitic race, and rely on that to reproduce, but how did they reproduce, and what were they, before they ran into humans... and humanoids?) If the advent of the D&Dverse encroaching on the Elderverse is what began their apotheosis into a sentient species, then they would be among the few Far Realms lifeforms that wouldn't want to see the New Universe 'undone'. Ilsensine may be the other universe's first (and only?) 'God'.
Some of this also allows me to 'fudge' canon by reassigning some beings (like I'd prefer Dendar to be an Obyrith now). There is something there I am not quite putting my finger on, regarding Ubtao, Eshadow, and Shar. I've always assumed Bahamut was Behemoth (from The Bible), and Tiamat is supposedly Leviathan (also, from The Bible), but what if Ubtao was really Behemoth? (which makes TONS of sense, since in D&D, we now call dinosaurs 'behemoths'). Would that then make Dendar 'Leviathan', who is said to be a 'sea monster', and Dendar is often equated to Jormungandr, who is 'at the bottom of the sea' (so, another 'sea serpent' - it calls it that right in Wikipedia).
And if we apply the Bible myths to FR's (and, perhaps, the Norse), then what we have is two 'primal monsters' appearing at 'the end of the world' for a final conflict (so yeah, Thor is also Behemoth, and maybe Marduk LOL).
Ya know, that's not so far-fetched. I see Wikipedia making a similar comparison, and dinosaurs are also called 'Thunderbeasts' (because of the sound of their footfalls). Thunder-God and Thunderbeast... who knew? The deeper I go down this rabbit hole, the more parallels I am seeing world-wide (and I get the feeling Ed devoured every scrap of mythology he could get his hands on when he was a wee lad).
So I guess, to give the edited, 'cliffs Notes' version of the above, some obyriths passed themselves off as Estelar, while others passed themselves off as primordials, and that worked, because no-one was really keeping track of anything in those early times ("The Time before Time"). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Oct 2017 23:21:00 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2017 : 23:17:29
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Keep in mind that some gods (or Estelar, if you prefer) didn't spring from ideas, either, as they were around before mortals. I guess you could say they were "ideas" of the universe, in a metaphorical sense, but I wouldn't call it "ideas" in the way we think of the concept.
That's actually what I meant - Estelar are the 'Gods before gods' (what we call 'deities'). They were concepts/ideas that emerged from the consciousness of the universe itself.
I know... it sounds like more hair-splitting, but one set of beings was 'by design', and the others were just 'happy accidents' (or not so happy LOL).
So all are 'Gods', but Estelar are what happens when the universe dreams, as opposed to immortals, which is what occurs when mortals dream. Primordials are also 'gods' (small 'g') in my book as well, just to make all the old lore and new lore work-out. They're just 'messier'. 
In my latest homebrew, Obyrith Lords are the Gods of another universe, who sometimes pass themselves off as either Primordials or Estelar, but are neither. They each have their own agenda (being chaotic, their 'working together' lasted about as long as they were able to push the Shard of Pure Evil into the D&Dverse). In other words, they were trying to 'pop' the balloon.
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I still need to read Zeromaru's Nentir Vale. I've just been preoccupied.
The whole first part of it is basically the history of the D&Dverse, so its very, very good. Some of it is contradictory, but he does a bang-up job of keeping it all straight, which is no small feat. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2017 : 23:56:22
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| Ah, okay, sorry, I misunderstood. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 00:18:51
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So looking at what I just did in the Primordials thread, I now think that there is a title (I created) - the Archordials - which is not a real 'tier', but rather, just another name for the (true) Elemental Lords, to distinguish them from the 'lesser elemental lords', like archomentals. Thre are four of them, and although their purpose is to be in charge of the Primordials, they themselves are actually Estelar, which causes some confusion. They each have a more 'human' aspect they use among followers (several, actually), and also a more 'primal' aspect, of the element itself.
Thus, Kossuth/Kakatal, Istishia/Straasha, Grumbar/Grome, and Akadi/Lassa*
My reasoning for this? Mostly because I think they SHOULD be a 'step above' other primordials (else, why are they the 'big four' and not any of the others?), and also, it just makes it easier to blend the new lore in with the old (because now the 'primordial lords' ARE Gods... and can grant divine spells. They are unique in that they can also be used as a 'Primal power' source, because of their charge (control over the primal powers and primordials).
*EDIT:
I originally had 'Misha' here, but with a little more research i discovered Lassa, who is supposedly the mother of Misha and Graoll (who would then be 'Wind Dukes of Aaqa', or 'Vaati') 
EDIT2:
And since I am going through 1eDD once again, Misha and Graoll would be know as Fei Lien & Feng Po in the Kara-Turran (Chinese) pantheon. I guess not all the Vaati were 'dukes' - some were counts. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Oct 2017 02:09:53 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 00:36:01
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They are the "big four" because they not opposed the gods, hence they weren't defeated, sealed, killed, etc. and could chose to have followers and be among the gods. Much like Ubtao did in fact.
Because, really, I see pure entropy by far more powerful than an elemental power. And there are primordials of entropy, and they have proved to by way stronger than a great number of gods. We have Timesus the Black Star, who was defeated by the combined might of several gods, and most of those gods died. And in the Realms we have Entropy, that:
"Befuddling sages and theologians for millennia, Entropy’s true purpose was at last revealed upon the calamitous joining of worlds brought on by the Spellplague. As the Swallower of Gods and the Devourer of Worlds, Entropy has represented the single direst threat to the mortal world since the Age before Ages. In that long ago era, when Ao banished the primordials to Abeir, the overgod imprisoned Entropy in the guise of a sphere of annihilation and discarded the inert primordial on Toril with a warning to the gods: Govern the world wisely or face utter oblivion. With Cyric’s folly and the unraveling of the Weave, Entropy is freed once more to spread ruin across the face of Toril. Every day the primordial’s entropic maw grows wider, threatening to swallow the world whole, while the weakened powers of the Astral Sea stand powerless to stop it.
Dungeon Magazine, 178: Backdrop Chessenta |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 01:12:16
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This is why I have reassigned Entropy as an Obyrith (Elderverse 'god') who just poses as a primordial. There are a few others like him/her/it as well.
I was thinking about making Ubtao an Obyrith that betrayed the rest, but I think I'd rather spin Ilsensine that way (not sure yet - still tinkering with the illithids - their 'history' is rather weird. Ilsensine may have actually been 'born of this world' (the D&Dverse, not the Far Realms). However, spinning it as the ONLY true God of the Elderverse is kinda neat, too. It just complicates matters because then there'd have to be a little 'back and forth' going on between universes. Then again, their past is everyone else's future.. hmmmmmmm...
My head is starting to hurt from this one, but maybe the Elderverse (Far Realms) doesn't have Temporal Prime. In fact, it shouldn't - 'Time' is one of the dimensions; one of the 'fixed rules' of this universe. Thus, the illithids may have created themselves, by using the ability to move through time HERE, and then go back THERE.
Of course, if there is no 'time' in the Elderverse ('The Time before time'), then how are the aberrations 'running out of time' in my homebrew cosmology?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Oct 2017 01:12:58 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 01:22:11
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| Temporal prime...? I guess that I should delve more into the lore of old D&D... |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 01:31:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I was thinking about making Ubtao an Obyrith that betrayed the rest, but I think I'd rather spin Ilsensine that way (not sure yet - still tinkering with the illithids - their 'history' is rather weird. Ilsensine may have actually been 'born of this world' (the D&Dverse, not the Far Realms). However, spinning it as the ONLY true God of the Elderverse is kinda neat, too. It just complicates matters because then there'd have to be a little 'back and forth' going on between universes. Then again, their past is everyone else's future.. hmmmmmmm...
My head is starting to hurt from this one, but maybe the Elderverse (Far Realms) doesn't have Temporal Prime. In fact, it shouldn't - 'Time' is one of the dimensions; one of the 'fixed rules' of this universe. Thus, the illithids may have created themselves, by using the ability to move through time HERE, and then go back THERE.
Of course, if there is no 'time' in the Elderverse ('The Time before time'), then how are the aberrations 'running out of time' in my homebrew cosmology?
Perhaps the "back and forth" brought a semblance of time to the Elderverse? Or, more likely, as worlds "grow" or are created, they get tacked on to the multiverse, like a group of bubbles all stuck together. They are separate, but nevertheless influence each other, because you will have "bleeding" as the worlds touch each other. Even in the "time before time", there would still be a cycle of sorts, because that allowed the Elderverse to function/grow/whatever. Even if time isn't a concept, there is a passing of sorts. So, maybe the aberrations are running out of passings/cycles. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
Edited by - CorellonsDevout on 26 Oct 2017 01:32:48 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 01:39:25
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YES! I was thinking along these very same lines.
Before the D&Dverse intruded upon the Elderverse, everyone there existed 'at all points in time at once'. They wouldn't think that was weird, because it would have been normal for them - they are non-linear beings. Then they have to start dealing with the D&Dverse, which DOES have time, and they are stuck following its rules.
When the 'bubble' first happened (the 'Big Bang'), they were probably taken completely off-guard, since they were aware of 'all points in time', and this was something totally new and unexpected.
Oh, and Pyaray from the Melniboean pantheon is Cthulhu.
Dender is just Dender... hangin' around doing Dender stuff. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Oct 2017 02:00:52 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 02:13:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Temporal prime...? I guess that I should delve more into the lore of old D&D...
The supplement Chronomancer is completely based around the concept. Its the 'Plane of Time'.
Not very useful (IMO) as a game-aid (seriously, how can anyone use time travel and NOT have it cause problems?), but it is a fascinating study into how time works in a magical universe. Just for the lore, its very good.
Plus - even though its considered 'core' - we all suspect the 'secret Lord of time' is really the Netherese Chronomancer (I mean, COME ON! the product it literally named after him). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 02:35:25
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| I see. Seems similar to the anomalous plane (planes that exists outside the "normal multiverse") known as the Plane of Moments in the World Axis cosmology. The Plane of Moments was basically a place full of golden streams, each stream being a different timeline. The place was extremely difficult to get at and full of epic level beings acting as guardians of the timelines. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2017 : 02:58:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
YES! I was thinking along these very same lines.
Before the D&Dverse intruded upon the Elderverse, everyone there existed 'at all points in time at once'. They wouldn't think that was weird, because it would have been normal for them - they are non-linear beings. Then they have to start dealing with the D&Dverse, which DOES have time, and they are stuck following its rules.
When the 'bubble' first happened (the 'Big Bang'), they were probably taken completely off-guard, since they were aware of 'all points in time', and this was something totally new and unexpected.
And since they touch 'all points in time', the part (if you will) that was 'touching' the D&Dverse was thus affected by time, and that rippled through, causing other parts to be affected. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Topic |
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Cosmology Theories
