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Entromancer
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
 Posted - 20 May 2016 : 07:32:14
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quote:
Originally posted by froglegg
I think Adhriva said just about all that needed to be said about this.
I just wonder how many times you can go to the well before it becomes old hat.
John
The 'Realms, and DnD at large, have been getting along for a good many years with the traditional rig of races. Presumably the newer ones can go on for just as long if you have companies and players that're interested.
I'll look into the Brimstone Angels stuff. I've had the first book on my shelf for a while now. |
"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul
"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2016 : 11:00:42
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I'm not sure why there is even an argument about this. As far as I can tell, if the race appears in official publication in the (5th Edition) PHB, then it's a "core race", aka an officially published player race. It's almost an afterthought that certain races like Gnomes are classified as "optional" races in the PHB. Optional means being allowed only under the discretion of the DM. But hey…. every damn thing in the game is under the discretion of your DM anyways. If the DM RULES that gnomes and halflings do not exist in his world, then so be it. If you disagree, then what's your best option? Quit the campaign and find another DM and group to play with?
The conclusion here is that any race can be a common "core race". And any race can be ruled to be a rare or non-existent race. It just depends on the particular DM and campaign setting in question. And everyone plays this game differently. If some DM wants to create his home-grown campaign and rules that Dragonborns are a common playable race and Elves have been hunted to near-extinction, then who am I to judge? As long as he and his Players enjoy their game, that's all that matters.
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Edited by - moonbeast on 20 May 2016 11:02:36 |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2016 : 19:18:52
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Pulling that one, really? Could as well say i haet them and am envious. I mean, subtle. 
Oh I wasn't even trying to be subtle.
By your line of thought people who play as halflings are pedophiles.
And then people wonder why DnD can't get new players and WotC isn't releasing new material. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2473 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2016 : 06:03:57
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quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
But hey…. every damn thing in the game is under the discretion of your DM anyways. If the DM RULES that gnomes and halflings do not exist in his world, then so be it. If you disagree, then what's your best option? Quit the campaign and find another DM and group to play with?
That's a good point. In that if DM and the group run a munchkin campaign, no amount rulebooks can help, and if roleplaying campaign, fixes will be applied as needed.
The problem is that sparkly ponies and other junk that appear in "official" sources are bound to leak into lore. "Don't make Drizzts" is all good, but if every third character was described as a Drizzt clone, you'd need to overwrite so much that it's easier to throw the book away and make your own.
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Pulling that one, really? Could as well say i haet them and am envious. I mean, subtle.
Oh I wasn't even trying to be subtle.
That's why there was a smiley. Was this too subtle? No offence...
quote:
By your line of thought people who play as halflings are pedophiles.
It appears that you know "my line of thought" better than myself, and see fit to express it with me present.
I am curious. Is this a habit? Do you often try to do this offline? Were any candelabras present in the room during such an event? If so, how did this experiment end?
quote:
And then people wonder why DnD can't get new players and WotC isn't releasing new material.
"WotC"? 
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People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2016 : 21:58:03
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watches train wreck.... hahahahahahahaha... sorry could not resist but I should have....
anyway, as Id say no tiefling warlocks... that also said I hate the hellspawn tiefling aka the 4e/ legends look.
so well along with others mind you is not to come to a table with a clone whether or not its a raistlin, Gandalf, khelben the older, elminster, etc clone.
that also said the tiefling is a realy good race... its just not foreveryone especially since they tend to go boring with all of it |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2016 : 22:07:41
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
that also said I hate the hellspawn tiefling aka the 4e/ legends look.
Agreed. In my opinion, one of the biggest mistakes of the 4E ruleset was the one-size-fits-all, over-the-top look for all planetouched. I loved the 2E/3E approach where each one was something different, and where one planetouched might be obviously not fully human while the next would be indistinguishable from a human without looking very closely. |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2016 : 22:30:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Agreed. In my opinion, one of the biggest mistakes of the 4E ruleset was the one-size-fits-all, over-the-top look for all planetouched. I loved the 2E/3E approach where each one was something different, and where one planetouched might be obviously not fully human while the next would be indistinguishable from a human without looking very closely.
This ^. Tieflings descended from different demons, devils, and other entities should have different appearances. Individual variation should especially be evident in tieflings decended from entities native to the chaotic planes. |
- Ryan |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2016 : 22:41:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Let's ease back a bit, folks, before this discussion goes off the rails.
What a discussion going off the rails, here? NEVAR!!!!
Whatever happened to Brace and his assortment of sock scribes? |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2016 : 23:51:50
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I like how paizo did their tieflings.
sure the hellspawn/legends look is there, but so are others.... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2016 : 05:24:12
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quote:
Originally posted by farinal
I don't really see the point of the tiefling to be in the core PC races since most npcs would dislike or hate or fear the PC and most of the PCs will have no reason to trust or join forces with the tiefling. it's same as making a party with a drow on the surface and start adventuring away.
any thoughts?
Had a similar WTHeck with a player that wanted to play a Half-Ogre* from Dragon Magazine.
Me: Ya know, most everything you encounter will fear/hate you.
Player: Yep
Me: It’s going to gobble up lots of time.
Player: Oh yeah.
Me: You know this is a pain in the ass for me.
Player: You know I can live with that.
But the other players were okay with that (Actually it was a conspiracy. They all had their own Dragon Magazine concessions to submit). The half-ogre player conceded to roll up his Intelligence with 3d4’s. And of course he pulled a 3 proving Tyr was an actually deity that occasionally superseded Tymora. But I digress.
At times it was all as I predicted with time, pain, but it made him happy, but I could pull this ace from up my sleeve for almost any occasion. You want to get a room in the Inn???... in the North ward of Waterdeep… by the nobles? - Oh, I say we play this one out… in detail.
But bottom line I was okay with it. The fellow players were okay with it. Sooner than I hoped it led to in character interesting moments like when the half-ogre failed his bend bars which was the way to escape, and the player wizard spent the next 8 rounds in-character belittling the half-ogre, while the other characters were in character (and out of character) begging the wizard to cast the damn fireball already.
Do Tieflings & Half-ogres fit in the Realms? Totally your call of course. But it’s not like we have to justify it to get into the DM section of Heaven. But if I am wrong, and I ever had to justify to Ed Greenwood (cause it’s going to be him or Gygax at the gate), I could tilt my head in Salvatore’s direction, and fold my arms. He started it.
If it’s a shared table in your house give a little, take a little. Core race, Smore race. The players were okay with me banning player illusionists (very core class, but I find lengthy descriptions of illusions tedious when dispensed by the verbose. But more than that I feel like I am grading someone’s creativity) And I banned player gnomes (Core race, but Under Illefarn had this line about finding gnomes in “a beautiful meadow” which made me hostile).
Also, never forget. People that play gnome/illusionists are bad people in real life. It’s true. 
But your original post does hit on why Wizards does these things. It’s the money. It’s always the money. I keep expecting coupons for Pokemon cards in my Forgotten Realms stuff. I really do.
* "The whole half-ogre" Dragon Magazine #73, May 1983 - Also reprinted in Best of Dragon Magazime Vol IV - pg 46 |
Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
Edited by - Thrasymachus on 22 May 2016 05:32:11 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2016 : 15:09:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Rymac
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Agreed. In my opinion, one of the biggest mistakes of the 4E ruleset was the one-size-fits-all, over-the-top look for all planetouched. I loved the 2E/3E approach where each one was something different, and where one planetouched might be obviously not fully human while the next would be indistinguishable from a human without looking very closely.
This ^. Tieflings descended from different demons, devils, and other entities should have different appearances. Individual variation should especially be evident in tieflings decended from entities native to the chaotic planes.
Who ever said that Tieflings "had" to change appearance to match the book in anyone's individual campaign? I mean we're literally just talking about semantics and individual imagery. Whether it's just subtle differences like in 2e/3e or more noticeable one like in 4e/5e, it's not going to matter overall. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2016 : 16:00:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Rymac
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Agreed. In my opinion, one of the biggest mistakes of the 4E ruleset was the one-size-fits-all, over-the-top look for all planetouched. I loved the 2E/3E approach where each one was something different, and where one planetouched might be obviously not fully human while the next would be indistinguishable from a human without looking very closely.
This ^. Tieflings descended from different demons, devils, and other entities should have different appearances. Individual variation should especially be evident in tieflings decended from entities native to the chaotic planes.
Who ever said that Tieflings "had" to change appearance to match the book in anyone's individual campaign? I mean we're literally just talking about semantics and individual imagery. Whether it's just subtle differences like in 2e/3e or more noticeable one like in 4e/5e, it's not going to matter overall.
Why does this argument come up every time someone mentions not liking some aspect of the canon Realms?
Yes, people can do whatever the heck they want... But people who came aboard later don't know that there was a time when planetouched had individual and highly varied appearances. And other people prefer to adhere as much as possible to canon, and canon is the one-size-fits-all approach.
Constantly using the "if you don't like it, change it" argument in response to dissatisfaction with the official version of something is similar to saying "if you don't like Robert Downey Jr as Iron Man, just pretend it's Jaleel White when you're watching the movie." It doesn't change anything for the person given that advice, and they're still going to be confronted by official images of the thing they don't like.
I get that it's meant to be helpful advice, and for some, it would be... But at the same time, it doesn't address the original issue of WotC having created less potential for players and DMs. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 22 May 2016 16:07:24 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6383 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2016 : 17:13:49
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Fans can be just as bad. In many threads lately i see the words 'the gods wouldnt allow that' to put down another's ideas and thus reduce the potential.
If someone wants to stick to canon, yes, there are many scenarios where something would be disallowed by the gods.
I don't see that as reducing potential, though... Just because one thing won't work, it doesn't mean others won't -- or that the limitation can't itself spur new creativity.
If I'm a kid in a playground, having a jungle gym in the playground doesn't limit my creativity -- it gives me more to work with.
I could run around in an empty field and pretend it's got everything I want -- or I could go to a playground where someone else's creativity can inspire my own and give me new ways to play.
That's how I see campaign settings for D&D -- I could create my own and do exactly what I want, or I could find one that has elements I like, including much that I wouldn't have thought of on my own, and work within that.
And for me, I'm far more creative when I have to work within someone else's boundaries, because those boundaries are often what spurs me to be creative, and trying to stay within them makes me think of things I wouldn't have come up with without those boundaries.
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Hopefully people will realise that canon is no longer a sacred cow.
That's your opinion. A lot of us like to have a defined canon to work within. If I wanted to rewrite everything, I'd make up my own thing entirely from scratch. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6383 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2016 : 00:29:50
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Well then it looks like you are stuck with the new tieflings because they are canon.
And that's an issue that WotC should address.
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
And for every god that says you cant there is another that says you can. Kelemvor doesnt stop all undead from being created, he doesnt even stop any powerful undead from being created. Eldath doesnt stop all wars. Shar didnt stop the second sun from being created.
The gods stop nothing, only people take actions.
And if the gods stop nothing, then saying the gods wouldn't allow something is not stopping potential. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2016 : 06:48:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Why does this argument come up every time someone mentions not liking some aspect of the canon Realms?
In this particular instance, both Tieflings still exit. Tieflings looked a certain way prior to the Spellplague, yes? The spellplague didn't, as from I read, change every single one into what they appear to be now. Ergo one could assume that pre-Spellplauge Tieflings and thier offspring will have the distinct look of pre-4e era. It's what I do in my games anyways. Not to mention that the rules have changed SOO MUCH in the past 30 years that expecting Canon to remain intact or close to the original is completely absurd.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yes, people can do whatever the heck they want... But people who came aboard later don't know that there was a time when planetouched had individual and highly varied appearances. And other people prefer to adhere as much as possible to canon, and canon is the one-size-fits-all approach.
Why? The actual creator of the Realms doesn't adhere to Canon so why burden yourself with being upset expressing displeasure when the things change? The ENTIRE point of the Forgotten Realms, and D&D by-the-by, is to have fun. If some designer, artist, or company does something that changes that, don't let it in your game. It's blatantly that simple. Further, the moment you introduced non-WotC official characters into the Realms it becomes non-canon. So what's the point when by playing the game you're deviating from source. And it really only gets more distinct the more things you do and the more people you meet and the more changes you make to the Realms in your own world.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Constantly using the "if you don't like it, change it" argument in response to dissatisfaction with the official version of something is similar to saying "if you don't like Robert Downey Jr as Iron Man, just pretend it's Jaleel White when you're watching the movie." It doesn't change anything for the person given that advice, and they're still going to be confronted by official images of the thing they don't like.
That's a terrible analogy and you know it. It actually makes no sense because I cannot change the role in how I "watch" a movie. I can, however, change my role in how a game plays and how a game works and how a games LOOKS at my home game.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I get that it's meant to be helpful advice, and for some, it would be... But at the same time, it doesn't address the original issue of WotC having created less potential for players and DMs.
I'm sorry but WotC doesn't take away or create less potential, that is SOLELY on part of the person playing the game. Period.
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Edited by - Diffan on 23 May 2016 06:50:02 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2016 : 11:13:13
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If you're new to the setting, you don't know that you have options with tieflings. That's a reduction of potential.
Changing something in your home game does not change how it goes in every game -- you, as a DM, may say one thing, but other DMs -- even those running games you play in -- may say otherwise.
And changing how it is in your home game doesn't affect all the published fiction, or published artwork, or published game material that all goes with the "one-size-fits-all" approach. That's why I used that movie analogy -- it doesn't matter how you want to see something on your own, you're still going to be slapped in the fact with the official look.
Some people want to try to stick as close to published canon as possible. That shouldn't be such a big deal. We should support that, not brush it aside. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 23 May 2016 13:16:37 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2016 : 15:33:55
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If you're new to the setting, chances are how tieflings look is a non-issue with your game. I'd say the VAST majority of people dissatisfied are older players who very well know there's pre- and post-spellplague differences with Tieflings and are primarily upset that the Tiefling's "look" didn't revert back to those player's preferences in common depictions throughout the supplements.
As for home games, yeah I'm going to be far more interested in those because they actually affect me. I don't care how someone else plays their game and I don't really care how people use the rules or what things they add because it doesn't directly effect me in any way, shape, or form. Did you know some people still put Alignment requirements on classes in 5e?! Not official rules but that doesn't stop them. Did you know that people removed Alignment reqiurements on classes prior to 4e?! Not official rules but that didn't stop them either. In both cases none were supported by WotC and yet, lo and behold, we have people changing things to fit their game and to make it fun. Not to mention that in almost every supplement of D&D that I've found, especially CORE ones, are pretty darn adamant about reassuring DMs and players alike that the rules (and I'd imagine depictions of races/classes therein) aren't carved in stone and can....heck even SHOULD be changed for a better experience. So no, I'm not going to worry about some gaming table, 2,500 miles away, that reverts all Tieflings to their pre-4e selves OR a gaming table across town that plays strictly RAW. Neither actually affect me one bit.
As for Canon, we need to let people know that Canon is a nice common ground to meet on but that experiences and expectations based on preferences are going to differ. LOADS of people don't play in post Spellplague Realms. LOADS of people don't play in pre-Spellplague Realms. LOADS of people play BOTH eres. LOADS of people ignore the Time of Troubles. LOADS of people have killed Drizzt or Elminster or Khelban, or Mystra, or don't include Tymanther or Returned Abeir, or (in my games Mulhorand and Unther) or have floating Earth Motes (or kept them).
Canon is nice as a starting point. As a fixed element within a setting to branch off of. When players enter a Canonized world (like Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms) they have expectations based on what they've read or seen. But I think that's pretty much where Canon stops. because those same players want to immerse themselves and get involved and get into the action. They WANT to make changes like save Mystra from Shar and Cyric, stop the Spellplague. They want to help Zsass Tam and expand Thay's undead rule. They want to broker peace between Sembia and Cormyr. They want to stop the Abolethic Sovereignty (or maybe advance it?). ALL of these immediately stop Canon in it's tracks. It will change the course for their Realms to the point of perhaps non-resemblance and that's a GOOD thing. So if players and DMs are willing to change the Realms SO much and engage in non-Canon stuff, why are we arguing how Tieflings look? Or whether or not Dragonborn and Tieflings should be "Core" races? In the end the Realms will be what you make it, not WotC. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3811 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2016 : 16:00:21
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Canon is also what determines if you like or not the setting and what will be published about it. Now, generally speaking (so I'm not specifically talking about different kinds of tieflings), if something that you like currently isn't in Canon, then you will likely never see more stories with it, or its presence in anything regarding the setting. And please, don't act as if this is a minor issue, because it heavily influences the enjoyment of the published setting (at least, it does for me). Because it feels awful to see something you love getting trashed and ignored, and because part of the beauty of a world like the Realms is that you can feel part of a community that is involved with its ever growing story (or was, since the community has been splitted), and that can't really happen, if everyone starts to not accept different parts of the setting.
Canon may have no relevance in particular games, but it is important when deciding if you want to continue to follow its history. That's something even authors have said. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 23 May 2016 16:01:44 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2016 : 19:28:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Canon is also what determines if you like or not the setting and what will be published about it. Now, generally speaking (so I'm not specifically talking about different kinds of tieflings), if something that you like currently isn't in Canon, then you will likely never see more stories with it, or its presence in anything regarding the setting. And please, don't act as if this is a minor issue, because it heavily influences the enjoyment of the published setting (at least, it does for me). Because it feels awful to see something you love getting trashed and ignored, and because part of the beauty of a world like the Realms is that you can feel part of a community that is involved with its ever growing story (or was, since the community has been splitted), and that can't really happen, if everyone starts to not accept different parts of the setting.
Canon may have no relevance in particular games, but it is important when deciding if you want to continue to follow its history. That's something even authors have said.
The be blunt, WotC can't cater to everyone. There are parts of the current Forgotten Realms that I don't like. The removal of Returned Abeir and Tymanther. The emergence of Mulhorand and Unther. The re-creating of the Weave (though it's connection and heavy influence from Mystra has been toned down, thankfully) and bringing back characters like Breunor, Cattie-brie via magic are all parts of the setting I heavily dislike. Am I still playing in the current era of the Forgotten Realms? Yep. I didn't like the death of Eilistraee in 4e or Lantans sinking or whatever either. Still didn't stop me from playing in the Realms.
Looking specifically at Tieflings, they've been received positively overall. This was due mostly from the feedback WotC compiled during the playtest. If a majority of people like an option then it behooves WotC to put that into their game. For the most part, I rarely see much anger towards the non-classic races save for the so-called "broken" ones like the Aarakocra because they can fly. The artwork has been, again from reviews I've read, much better received than almost all of 4e's run and much of 3e's too.
So we have a majority in favor or keeping Tieflings (in their current incarnation) for D&D and thus, in the Forgotten Realms. Like it or not, they're here to stay just as Mulhorand and Unther and Maztica are here to say  . You can either be mad and not support that by not buying their things OR change it when it applies to you directly. Not really sure what else there is in this regard? |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3811 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2016 : 19:44:10
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My point was simply that, when someone says that they don't like something (or that they miss something) in the Realms, telling that they can ignore it in their game doesn't necessarily solve the problem, for the reasons that I've already pointed out. Besides, it's a mostly obvious thing, and not always doable (and the latter part might prevent someone from actually *playing* in the Realms).
So yeah, canon might lead to the point where the setting is different enough that you just don't want to buy or follow it anymore. Maybe you'll still use it, but you may end up not being involved in it and its story (and I'm not just talking about how tielfings look here). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 23 May 2016 19:46:53 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2016 : 19:58:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Not really sure what else there is in this regard?
You get rid of the one-size-fits-all approach. Nothing in pre-4E said you couldn't have a tiefling that looked like the 4E ones. So instead of "tieflings look like X" they could have say "Tieflings display a range of fiendish features such as A, B, C, D, and so on, but in the last century, due to this thing happening, a lot of tieflings have looked like X".
Just a couple of lines of text, and we've got both the 4E tieflings and the 2E/3E tieflings fully covered. And then we wouldn't have authors having to write fixes for the retcon into their novels, we'd have a lot of variety and customization options, and there wouldn't be any issue at all, for fans of either variety of tiefling. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 23 May 2016 19:59:44 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2016 : 21:23:52
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@ Irennen: Yeah I understand that deviation on part of the creators from the original can cause that. With the base "fractured" (for lack of a better word) it's going to come down to whether or not the deviation is enough to drive people away. Considering the positive attitude many have had with 5e overall, and the Forgotten Realms specifically, some will have to make that decision but that decision will unlikely change WotC course.
Personally speaking, I haven't let RSEs, weird canon, or events change my mind about the setting overall. I've got too much invested to throw it away over something like a departure that, frankly, has been gone for almost a decade anyways. I understand that it's not just Tieflings but to me it's pretty clear that this is the way things are panning out for the long haul. There isn't enough vocal dissent on these sorts of things for WotC to even blink at, let alone honestly consider. Heck ENWorld has an entire sub-section devoted to a class that wasn't included in 5e in an attempt to get it in 5e and they haven't.
@ Wooly: The one-size-fits-all approach has been prevalent for almost 10 years now. If we're being honest here, I'm fairly confident that it isn't going away anytime soon. And now that the Forgotten Realms is the "flagship" setting for 5e I'm expecting it to only get more. Whether the designers try to work with Canon to fit the Realms or just ham-fist it in there, is debatable. I wouldn't mind a looser description to allow for more variety, but then again I take all of that with a grain of salt anyways. I guess I just don't see the point considering WotC isn't going to change it's current mindset when it comes to the things they produce and how it affects the Realms. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
Edited by - Diffan on 23 May 2016 21:24:53 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3811 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2016 : 22:05:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
@ Irennen: Yeah I understand that deviation on part of the creators from the original can cause that. With the base "fractured" (for lack of a better word) it's going to come down to whether or not the deviation is enough to drive people away. Considering the positive attitude many have had with 5e overall, and the Forgotten Realms specifically, some will have to make that decision but that decision will unlikely change WotC course.
Personally speaking, I haven't let RSEs, weird canon, or events change my mind about the setting overall. I've got too much invested to throw it away over something like a departure that, frankly, has been gone for almost a decade anyways. I understand that it's not just Tieflings but to me it's pretty clear that this is the way things are panning out for the long haul. There isn't enough vocal dissent on these sorts of things for WotC to even blink at, let alone honestly consider. Heck ENWorld has an entire sub-section devoted to a class that wasn't included in 5e in an attempt to get it in 5e and they haven't.
Well, the vocal dissent was enough to get them to rush and resurrect everything and everyone they could think of. I could be ok with the status quo of 5e, or ok enough to the point of still wanting to follow it. But that's another matter, as it would require WotC to actually do something with the immense amount of characters, gods, and lands that they have restored, instead of just focusing on so little, or just keeping to introduce these pseudo-RSE storylines that aren't comepelling at all (IMO, ofc, as always). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11998 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2016 : 01:44:32
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| I'm thoroughly convinced at this point that they truly don't plan on doing d*ck with the 5e game anymore. Its sad, it has potential, and I'm starting to see a lot of young folks start roleplaying now (which I hadn't seen for a long time). They need to get off their butts and start producing stuff before their interest fades. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2016 : 02:52:26
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I'm thoroughly convinced at this point that they truly don't plan on doing d*ck with the 5e game anymore. Its sad, it has potential, and I'm starting to see a lot of young folks start roleplaying now (which I hadn't seen for a long time). They need to get off their butts and start producing stuff before their interest fades.
Yeah, and that stuff needs to be novels and video games a plenty. I would have never have cared about D&D or the Realms if it weren't for plenty of either of these two things. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2016 : 04:07:26
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only have 2 fr games.
neverwinter and swordcoast legends
and that does not count those from beemdog. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2016 : 13:04:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I'm thoroughly convinced at this point that they truly don't plan on doing d*ck with the 5e game anymore. Its sad, it has potential, and I'm starting to see a lot of young folks start roleplaying now (which I hadn't seen for a long time). They need to get off their butts and start producing stuff before their interest fades.
Yeah, and that stuff needs to be novels and video games a plenty. I would have never have cared about D&D or the Realms if it weren't for plenty of either of these two things.
True. They feed off from each other. I probably wouldnt play D&D if it wasnt for the FR novels and video games like IWD BG NN etc. |
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why are tieflings (and dragonborn) are a core race
