| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Apr 2016 : 10:46:08
|
|
Basically I see the weave as a liability and it appears that after the Spellplague people were able to learn how to cast spells without using the weave. Why bother bringing it back?
|
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2016 : 13:19:56
|
| The question is better phrased as "was the weave gone" or "was the weave ungoverned". I believe the weave still existed, but Mystra was "in a coma" of sorts... or rather she was too weak to do much more than pull futilely at the strands of the weave. While she was gone, wizards were severely reduced in power, unable to learn more than a few spells (by that I recommend looking at 4e wizardry). I'd definitely say that her return was a vast improvement upon the world. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
 |
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2016 : 13:46:52
|
The Weave was never gone, neither was Mystra. Ed has explained it in his last few books, saying that it was severely damaged, but that it actually survived. According to ''Magic of Faerun'', the Weave is also the structure that prevents raw magic on Toril from quickly dissipating in a devastating burst (which I guess would put the Spellplague to shame), and that allows magic to be used by mortals.
Given that the Weave was still there during the 1400s, I guess that it's what prevented what I wrote above from happening, and I also think that people learned how to cast through those remaining Weave strands, rather than relearning from scraps. It would also explain why all the spellcasters who learned magic in the 1400s can now all of sudden ''Weave-cast'' w/o any training. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
|
|
|
Kessalin
Acolyte
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2016 : 15:49:47
|
| I liked the way R.A. Salvatore described it in the Companions and the following books, with those who knew how to cast spells before the Spellplague training those who didn't. I don't see it so much that they didn't require any training, but more that they had the basics down and just needed to change a few details in the execution. |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2016 : 15:55:08
|
| Well, if they don't need to change anything substantial in their casting, then it means that the source of their magic and the way they interact with it haven't changed much. It would still make me think that 4e casting is more ''Weave strands-casting'' rather than raw magic. It would also be preferrable, because it doesn't retcon previous lore about the Weave, and the setting alread has a lot of continuity problems as is... |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2016 : 01:21:23
|
| The Weave is the Realms' Force or World Soul -- it's a thematic pillar of the setting that symbolizes the interconnected unity of Toril. It seems to have been written out solely as a sop to a few people complaining on the Internet about Mystra being too powerful; yes, there were always other ways to do magic, but it's quite implausible that they'd work just like the main D&D magic system. |
|
|
|
Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2016 : 03:06:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
The Weave is also the structure that prevents raw magic on Toril from quickly dissipating in a devastating burst (which I guess would put the Spellplague to shame), and that allows magic to be used by mortals.
I'm not really fond of this... it basically implies that Toril is cocooned in some kind of magic blanket and that magic can't be accessed anywhere else in the multiverse. Which makes zero sense, canon-wise, be it FR canon or not. We have tons of evidence from FR products that magic works just fine outside Toril and outside the Prime Material Plane in fact. |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2016 : 03:42:02
|
That's a good point, but one could say that magic in the outer planes is more akin to the gods' magic, than to the arcane (it would be problematic to explain wizards in such a context, since they are trained to draw magic from the Weave, so you'd have to handwave that and say that they can more or less tap into planar magic as well with their training). In the elemental planes, magic could draw power from the elments themselves, it could be fueled by some strange reflections of the Weave in the plane of Shadow (or by a projection of the Weave in the Ethereal), and so on.
Either way, I agree that it requires some kind of convoluted explanation. Magic of Faerun was written in 3e, so it's disconnected from other worlds, or from the Multiverse. Basically, it treated Toril and the planes of the World Tree as existing in a vacuum, leading to this kind of incongruences. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2016 : 15:14:50
|
I don't see an issue with it... If you decide that Toril itself is like some giant magical node, and the Weave allows its magic to be harnessed in a controllable fashion, that neatly handles all the issues, I think.
Toril itself being the node would explain why it only affects the Prime, and only in Realmspace.
With the Weave just being kind of an interface for tapping local magic, it would also explain why traveling to or from other worlds doesn't change things for mages - they're tapping local magic, wherever it is, it's just in the Realms, there's an extra layer between them and the local magic -- a layer that is, for spellcasting purposes, transparent.
And of course damage to the Weave damages that regulating interface, so uncontrolled magic results.
With dead magic areas, the Weave is still there, but it's so badly damaged that it doesn't allow any access to the underlying magic -- it's like a damaged electrical outlet where the plastic has melted over the openings. The outlet is there, it's still got power, but the damage to the outlet prevents anything from plugging in. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Apr 2016 15:16:52 |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2016 : 16:33:04
|
| Oh, I meant that you would need to handwave the fact that using the Weave is not necessarily the same as using other magic sources. And that a mage trained to draw from it could need some more training to use magic in the planes. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2016 : 17:06:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Oh, I meant that you would need to handwave the fact that using the Weave is not necessarily the same as using other magic sources. And that a mage trained to draw from it could need some more training to use magic in the planes.
My point is that you don't need to handwave that.
My thinking is that the Weave is an invisible filter for magic in the Realms. It doesn't interfere with drawing on the magic, but it does contain and keep the magic under control... Think of it as the screen protector on your phone. It allows access, and even though it is technically a barrier, it protects the screen without any impact on how its used.
Using that analogy, the spell is your fingertip. You're going to use that fingertip the same way to interact with the phone (the source of magic), regardless of whether or not the screen protector (the Weave) is there. The Realms would be the phone itself.
Other types of magic, like table magic and such, are simply other versions of that screen protector on the phone.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Apr 2016 17:07:03 |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2016 : 17:28:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Oh, I meant that you would need to handwave the fact that using the Weave is not necessarily the same as using other magic sources. And that a mage trained to draw from it could need some more training to use magic in the planes.
My point is that you don't need to handwave that.
My thinking is that the Weave is an invisible filter for magic in the Realms. It doesn't interfere with drawing on the magic, but it does contain and keep the magic under control... Think of it as the screen protector on your phone. It allows access, and even though it is technically a barrier, it protects the screen without any impact on how its used.
Using that analogy, the spell is your fingertip. You're going to use that fingertip the same way to interact with the phone (the source of magic), regardless of whether or not the screen protector (the Weave) is there. The Realms would be the phone itself.
Other types of magic, like table magic and such, are simply other versions of that screen protector on the phone.
Ahh, that is an interesting way to look at the matter. I like that, it's easy and makes sense. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
|
|
|
Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2016 : 15:22:09
|
Wasn't the explanation that the raw magic if toril is too ubstable and any mortal tapping it without the weave would just fry hinself?
The weave is just an oven mitt, without even archmages would burn their hands |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Is the weave necessary?
