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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Dec 2015 : 21:23:23
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Are we seeing a continuation of 4th edition goals where they were trying to basically rid the Realms of as many high level NPC's as possible in order to make room for PC's?
I was reading a post earlier and found out that The Srinshee, Telemont, Dove, Larloch and possibly The Simbul are all dead. Larloch and a few others could come back but as of right now they are dead.
This seems to me like another cleansing of the Realms and I'm not really liking it.
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“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3807 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2015 : 21:35:43
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| It looks like Dove has been resurrected, according to the SCAG (that has her alive). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1155 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2015 : 21:45:20
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Yeah, Telamont, the Srinshee, Dove, the Simbul and possibly Larloch have all been killed...in Ed's novels.
Dove was actually brought back by WotC.
Laeral is now the Open Lady of Waterdeep and of course Elminster is still around. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2015 : 22:09:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Are we seeing a continuation of 4th edition goals where they were trying to basically rid the Realms of as many high level NPC's as possible in order to make room for PC's?
I was reading a post earlier and found out that The Srinshee, Telemont, Dove, Larloch and possibly The Simbul are all dead. Larloch and a few others could come back but as of right now they are dead.
This seems to me like another cleansing of the Realms and I'm not really liking it.
I don't think so. Elminster is more powerful than ever. Yes, Srinshee is gone, but they rarely did anything with her anyway. Telamont is a big loss, but the Empire of Shade had a GREAT run, and it had to come to an end. Larloch was the biggest disappointment for me, because he's NEVER used, and as soon as he does something awesome to deliver on all the hype, he gets easily and cartoonishly taken out (he's not dead though; his phylactery is intact, as far as we know). Personally, I think Larloch was just used as a convenient plot device to quickly wipe out Shade without making Elminster seem too Mary Suish by destroying them all as easily as he destroyed Telamont.
I hate how the same thing happened to Shaan the Serpent Queen. I was super excited to finally see her in a novel after all these years, and she barely does anything interesting before being killed. Aside from Ed's books though, I've seen no purging of high level NPCs. With gods empowering more Chosen than ever, there are bound to be more high level NPCs in 5e.
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3807 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2015 : 22:17:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
Telamont is a big loss, but the Empire of Shade had a GREAT run, and it had to come to an end.
Why? Taking a defeat, being toned down, sure. However, there was no need for Shade to be removed. And if it holds true for Shade, then it would be just right to apply it to any overused organization. What should we do? Remove Lolth and her followers, and stuff like that? |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2015 : 22:21:42
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| The Simbul is dead for a longer time now. The herald brought back Laeral and Alustriel. So no, I don't think we will see a cleansing of high level NPCs |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2015 : 14:39:05
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| Is that old lich Zass Tam still in charge of Thay? |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3807 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2015 : 14:43:55
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quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
Is that old lich Zass Tam still in charge of Thay?
Yes. Even if some (living) Red Wizards are trying to take back Thay. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1294 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2015 : 00:51:22
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| Would love to see the Simbul back ruling Aglarond AND the Zulkirs co-ruling Thay and Szass Tam taken down a few hundred pegs. I LOATHE the whole lich king ruler concept for Thay. It was so much neater to have the Zulkirs forming a council with alliances and intrigue. Undead ruled lands bore me to tears. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11927 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2015 : 04:05:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Would love to see the Simbul back ruling Aglarond AND the Zulkirs co-ruling Thay and Szass Tam taken down a few hundred pegs. I LOATHE the whole lich king ruler concept for Thay. It was so much neater to have the Zulkirs forming a council with alliances and intrigue. Undead ruled lands bore me to tears.
I'd rather see Aglarond start to turn into a vassal state, essentially a border kingdom to the Yuirwood, where elves begin setting up their territory again. This can play well with the nearby drow distributed city as well as Thay, as it has to fend off against multiple cultures. However, I totally agree on the council of Zulkirs should return. Tam should be knocked down a peg. Personally, I'd love to see him have to flee, possibly down to where the followers of Myrkul setup the Theocracy of Eltabrannar years ago. Build up on the idea that the Zulkirs fight against him, but also that Eltab is none too fond of him still. Maybe he flees to Eltabranar to find something he can use against Eltab, and all the necromantic lore/magic left behind by the Myrkulites enables him to setup a smaller necromantic kingdom. Essentially, move and shrink his kingdom, and allow for something where Myrkul can be growing. Ironically, perhaps the Zulkirs that return can thank Velsharoon for some aid (after all Velsharoon doesn't like Tam) and worship of Velsharoon becomes strong in Thay as opposed to Myrkul. This whole idea sets up the east into a lot of separate factions, as there would be 3 major magocracies (Thay, Tam's new kingdom, and the place where the Imaskari fled) in competition, plus two major theocracies growing again with the Mulans, plus a dragonborn kingdom attempting to survive, not to mention Chessenta. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2015 : 11:01:56
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| I actually like the current state of Thay and I'm interested where it will turn it's attention now that shade is gone |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2015 : 12:32:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
Is that old lich Zass Tam still in charge of Thay?
Yes. Even if some (living) Red Wizards are trying to take back Thay.
Oh those silly living Red Wizards. Trying to usurp Zass Tam is a sure way for them to end up as Dead Red Wizards…. err…. "Undead Red Wizards".  |
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charger_ss24
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2015 : 16:02:08
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| I don't believe for one second that Larloch was destroyed. I do believe that it will be some time before we hear from him again. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2015 : 21:37:41
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Yes it's very unlikly that Larloch got destroyed completly.
It would be interesting to know what kind of contingencies he made for cases like this where he has to regenerate from his phylacterie so his servitor liches don't run rampant or someone lootes his crypt. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2015 : 00:31:47
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
Yes it's very unlikly that Larloch got destroyed completly.
It would be interesting to know what kind of contingencies he made for cases like this where he has to regenerate from his phylacterie so his servitor liches don't run rampant or someone lootes his crypt.
In Ed's followup to The Herald, Larloch's former servant liches were running wild, concocting their own schemes to acquire power. It's possible that the Srinshee may have undone most, or all, or his contingency spells. We don't know exactly what she did to him. |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2015 : 02:09:43
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Larloch the Shadow King is very much alive in 5th Edition D&D. It says so very clearly in the SCAG (Sword Coast Adventurers Guide), and mentions Larloch in the present tense.
Quote from Page 95, SCAG:
Chapter entry: The Warlock's Crypt
"In addition to the Shadow King, the Crypt houses several other liches, undead sorcerous vassals to Larloch. He calls upon their powers when he has need, but otherwise leaves them alone to conduct experiments and plots he demands of them. Though he once bound their influence tightly, reports suggest he has begun giving them a greater lead on their leashes…."
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1548 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2015 : 13:39:00
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I think that Szass going Arthas was kind of a crap move. I liked the novels, but IMHO I rather liked the idea of Szass finally kicking Thay into shape, and then retiring after a century or so and just chilling in his private demiplane while being the Council of Zulkirs's "Advisor".
Meanwhile, there are still a bunch of epic casters running around (Runemasters, Aumvor, Shoon) but given the recent trend, Elminster will no doubt show up and pimpslap them all while making witty quips. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1294 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2015 : 16:35:12
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I like Szass Tam as a character, I just think the concept of a kingdom/civilization ruled by a Lich King with everyone undead or undead everywhere is overdone; the Red Wizards of Thay was a unique Realms concept with the D&D Schools of Magic representing a council with a Zulkir heading it up--a neat and unique to the Realms concept to me. I prefer it, I think Vaasa would be a good territory to bring back a Lich/Witch King or some place that isn't Thay.
Sorry this is the wrong thread for that. I also remember THO telling us that the Simbul's story is not over, she was basically called back to Mystra in the last Elminsters Dies/Enraged/etc book so it would be very easy for her to come back now that Mystra is large and in charge again, no? I like Alassra and I hope we see her back whole sooner than later. Of all the sisters who died and came back (was it just Laeral and Alustriel? Dove faked her death apparently during the Herald..so confusing), I think Alustriel's faking her death was the most implausible given her love of her sons and Silverymoon.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2015 : 16:49:15
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Reports of death in the Realms are greatly exaggerated, anyhow.
Elminster certainly will not die so long as books about Elminster are certain to keep selling. NPCs like the Simbul and Larloch may have near-godlike levels of power which in itself attracts much attention and speculation, but they aren't as intrinsically popular as characters, they aren't enjoyable simply because of who they are and what they do, so their removal has little impact beyond grumbling the grognards. NPCs like Khelben and Halaster and Telamont (and Mystra) were a little too top-heavy and invited constant heavyhanded abuse by authors and DMs alike, so their (epic) removal from the setting is a bit of a conservation service for us all.
Yes, I believe there are far too many Mary Sue munchkins populating the Realms, and I believe they've inexorably twisted the Realms into a Disney-like WoW-like caricature of what it used to be. But opinions differ. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Nilus Reynard
Learned Scribe
Canada
137 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2015 : 20:39:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Are we seeing a continuation of 4th edition goals where they were trying to basically rid the Realms of as many high level NPC's as possible in order to make room for PC's?
I was reading a post earlier and found out that The Srinshee, Telemont, Dove, Larloch and possibly The Simbul are all dead. Larloch and a few others could come back but as of right now they are dead.
This seems to me like another cleansing of the Realms and I'm not really liking it.
*sigh*
They are still ruining what they spent so long building, I see. Some things are just better left as they are. |
Nilus Reynard
Doom Master of Beshaba, Hand of Despair.
P24 Hm CN
(2nd Edition AD&D) |
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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2015 : 15:01:12
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It's cool if they are IMHO.
John |
Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!
On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The Old Grey Box gets better with age! |
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Are we seeing a "cleansing" of high level NPC's?
