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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 05:04:26
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Exactly...good ideas and central concepts for usage in your own campaigns first. It's such an easy trend to grasp, but yet many players and DMs I talk to, think I'm crazy and/or boring for following this trend when looking through gaming products to purchase...
I think I'll go and pour myself something, a little stronger than my regular cup of java...
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 06:14:16
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Exactly...good ideas and central concepts for usage in your own campaigns first. It's such an easy trend to grasp, but yet many players and DMs I talk to, think I'm crazy and/or boring for following this trend when looking through gaming products to purchase...
I think I'll go and pour myself something, a little stronger than my regular cup of java...
Make it a double, as sadly, many gaming companies have realized that a great number of consumers are just looking in each product for the next high level prestige class rather than something with a bit more substance. Not all, but many. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 12:14:40
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Indeed...
In fact, that is one of the main reasons why I stopped purchasing any d20 gaming accessories from Avalanche Press. If you can guess one of my other main reasons (not much imagination is required though mind you), I'll give you a nice, virtual cheque for $10 (special note: cheques will not be honoured)...
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 15:17:58
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
In fact, that is one of the main reasons why I stopped purchasing any d20 gaming accessories from Avalanche Press. If you can guess one of my other main reasons (not much imagination is required though mind you), I'll give you a nice, virtual cheque for $10 (special note: cheques will not be honoured)...
Aren't they the company with the over the top covers that depict female characters in various stages of undress?
If so, don't have to worry about that with the Quintessential line.  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2004 : 03:22:03
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Yes, they are that company with the over the top covers...I mean, what type of gamer market are Avalanche Press targetting. Do their product market specialists think all gamers are male, and that they are desparate losers whose only exposure to the female form is what is on the cover of their tomes...?...Really... 
I've let them know through an email letter I wrote several months ago, that nowadays most male gamers are, or have at sometime, been in a relationship with a female...and that such gimmicky trends are not only unnecessary in the 21st century, but also insulting.
And not only that, now more than ever, a greater number of females are joining in on this hobby we all know and love...the time has past for such advertising tactics as those employed by Avalanche, and another d20 publishing group that shall remain nameless...
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2004 : 03:41:59
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Yes, they are that company with the over the top covers...I mean, what type of gamer market are Avalanche Press targetting. Do their product market specialists think all gamers are male, and that they are desparate losers whose only exposure to the female form is what is on the cover of their tomes...?...Really...
Apparently. What's sad is I recall them winning some award based on their product. Perhaps what is inside is better than the cover.
quote:
the time has past for such advertising tactics as those employed by Avalanche, and another d20 publishing group that shall remain nameless...
What's the other D20 publishign group? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2004 : 04:35:32
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Most of Avalanche's books are geared towards 'crunch' gamers. There's a little background for each tome they put out, but most of it is recycled Earth-based history...
The only truly creative 'earth-based-culture' tome they did put out was the setting based on the Norse, and the era of the Vikings. Since very little is actually know about this period of earth's history in real-life, it left the designers with a lot of room to expand, and explore.
The other d20 publishing group is Fast Forward Entertainment. There's two reasons for my dislike of most of their products (one of which is not RPG related). The RPG-related reasons are considerations very similiar to your thoughts on the quality and content of current Mongoose books...
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2004 : 04:44:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The only truly creative 'earth-based-culture' tome they did put out was the setting based on the Norse, and the era of the Vikings. Since very little is actually know about this period of earth's history in real-life, it left the designers with a lot of room to expand, and explore.
I want to say that is the product they put out that I read won an award. Did that product have a Twiggy looking model complete with unnatural attributes on the cover in a fur bikini complete with a battle axe in her hand larger than one of her legs? 
quote:
The other d20 publishing group is Fast Forward Entertainment. There's two reasons for my dislike of most of their products (one of which is not RPG related). The RPG-related reasons are considerations very similiar to your thoughts on the quality and content of current Mongoose books...
Can you expand on the other reason or just give a general idea? Some bad experience with someone in the company? I know that feeling if so. I've watched how some D20 company representatives conduct themselves on ENWorld and know of two companies I will never purchase products from again based on how they conducted themselves.
Fortunately, Mongoose was not one of them and for anyone who read my complaints about some of their recent products, let me add that Matt Sprange (I think that's his last name) quickly communicated to fans what corrections the company was making to ensure that such product defects never took place again with a Mongoose product. Thus, to those buying something from the Quint. line in the future, I hope he's right.
Fast Forward Entertainment? Isn't that run by Jim Ward? Why does that name ring a bell? I know he worked for TSR...but I want to say I recall something else about him......
Moreover, didn't that company run into trouble with some non-OGL material slipping into some of their products and causing them to recall some items? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2004 : 05:01:19
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Sirius said -
quote:
I want to say that is the product they put out that I read won an award. Did that product have a Twiggy looking model complete with unnatural attributes on the cover in a fur bikini complete with a battle axe in her hand larger than one of her legs?
I don't think so, although there are several Avalanche books detailing the Viking era, and it's mythology. I'll check up on that.
My other reason for my disliking of Fast Forward Entertainment products is due to their publishing standards in some of their Classic BattleTech tabletop wargaming materials. A lot of the text in some books appears crooked, and a number of images look as though they've been cut off without the full image being imprinted on the page.
As for Fast Forward Entertainment's non-OGL material problems, I seem to recall something about that, although I didn't know they were forced to recall some products...very interesting.
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2004 : 05:37:55
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I don't think so, although there are several Avalanche books detailing the Viking era, and it's mythology. I'll check up on that.
No big deal as I didn't realize they had published more than one Viking era book. You know given the nature of their covers you would think the company was run by well, teen boys. But, I recall reading some time ago, and this goes with a grain of salt as no idea on the accuracy, that the person responsible for deciding on the artwork for the cover was a female representative. If true, I'd like to say that it would surprise me, but it doesn't.
Sorry to hear about FFE's problems with Classic Battletech.
quote:
As for Fast Forward Entertainment's non-OGL material problems, I seem to recall something about that, although I didn't know they were forced to recall some products...very interesting.
I'd have to check to make absolutely certain, but I believe so. I definitely recall it was not just one thing in the item or items, but multiple violations. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2004 : 07:07:19
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Okay, to take us back to the topic, I'm looking for someone to provide a general rating of the Quintessential books that they have, you know, like on a scale of 1-to-10.
I'm heading off to the gaming store soon, to pick up my Giants of Legends miniatures pack, and I also thought I'd pick up one or two of these tomes, so let's hear what you think...
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Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2004 : 07:58:34
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Well Sage tell me which ones you might be intrested in buying and ill give you my 2 cents.
PFoA |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2004 : 08:38:01
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Well, I'm probably looking at the 'Rogue's' guide, and maybe also the 'Paladin's' book as well. Also, if GRR's Book of Fiends isn't out yet, I'll probably pick up the 'Samurai' guide.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2004 : 16:31:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Okay, to take us back to the topic, I'm looking for someone to provide a general rating of the Quintessential books that they have, you know, like on a scale of 1-to-10.
You know my feelings. Rogue & Sorcerer stand out and I enjoyed Elf and Fighter as well.
quote:
I'm heading off to the gaming store soon, to pick up my Giants of Legends miniatures pack, and I also thought I'd pick up one or two of these tomes, so let's hear what you think...
I know I'm harping on this, but carefully check out the binding for any Mongoose or FFG items you pick up.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2004 : 04:27:17
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I usually do, and now even moreso after your timely warning. I appreciate that Sirius. I even looked through my now purchased copy of GRR's Book of Fiends, just to be sure...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2004 : 13:47:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I usually do, and now even moreso after your timely warning. I appreciate that Sirius. I even looked through my now purchased copy of GRR's Book of Fiends, just to be sure...
Never had problems with Green Ronin, but I don't blame you for checking. I'm glad I could help although, some of the Mongoose and FFG items didn't show any binding problems until after a day or two had passed once I got them home. I hope you have better luck.
I have some Aleene's tacky glue and apparently that will work in repairing the binding. So, when I get time, my falling apart Quintessential Sorcerer will possibly get some relief. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2004 : 14:10:30
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Ah...Quintessential Sorcerer, that's a tome we haven't discussed yet. What are your thoughts on this particular book?.
I like it. It focuses a great deal on the origins of a sorcerer's powers and gives various options for how a DM or character might wish to address this aspect. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2004 : 14:11:46
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm heading off to the gaming store soon, to pick up my Giants of Legends miniatures pack, and I also thought I'd pick up one or two of these tomes, so let's hear what you think...
What did you end up getting in all The Sage? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2004 : 14:21:57
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Ah...Quintessential Sorcerer, that's a tome we haven't discussed yet. What are your thoughts on this particular book?.
I like it. It focuses a great deal on the origins of a sorcerer's powers and gives various options for how a DM or character might wish to address this aspect.
I remember reading something a while back which mentioned that the 'Bloodline' feats from Dragon Magazine were also to be included in this book. Were they...?
SiriusBlack also posted -
quote:
What did you end up getting in all The Sage?
Well, I picked up (besides the afore mentioned Book of Fiends), both the 'Rogue', and 'Samurai' books. I most likely would have picked up the 'Paladin' book also, but I've already got enough material on that class as it is...
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2004 : 21:10:03
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I remember reading something a while back which mentioned that the 'Bloodline' feats from Dragon Magazine were also to be included in this book. Were they...?
The section on existing feats just has material from Core Rulebook I. New feats are given three pages, but bloodlines aren't in there. There is a section devoted to bonds of blood, detailing options for a sorcerer's ancestors. However, that section consists of templates, not feats.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 04:43:35
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That's a shame... I missed that particular issue of Dragon which detailed the 'Bloodline' feats. They would have been a grand addition to my upcoming DL Age of Mortals campaign.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 07:59:38
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| What are these Bloodline feats, and when were they published? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 09:19:59
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The 'Bloodline' feats were presented in one of the earlier issues of Dragon magazine in 2003. It was after the month of February, if memory serves.
Anyway, here's the basic idea behind these specialised feats (remember that I'm relating from memory) - Bloodline feats are 1st level only feats based on history, ancestry or bloodline. They can enhance the dragon blood (in sorcerers), which can, among other benefits, provide an eidetic memory or physical aspects like being an albino (I'm still not sure how this can be a benefit to anyone, anywhere other than in the Underdark).
The premise behind the feats is that they build upon the idea that a sorcerer gains magic through his bloodline. It's normally assumed that this is but one possible explanation for the source of magic for a sorcerer.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - The Sage on 20 Mar 2004 09:21:54 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 15:16:27
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Anyway, here's the basic idea behind these specialised feats (remember that I'm relating from memory) - Bloodline feats are 1st level only feats based on history, ancestry or bloodline. They can enhance the dragon blood (in sorcerers), which can, among other benefits, provide an eidetic memory or physical aspects like being an albino (I'm still not sure how this can be a benefit to anyone, anywhere other than in the Underdark).
That sounds so familiar. I want to say one of the campaign settings I read in the not so distant past did something like this. Maybe Dawnforge or Oathbound.
quote:
The premise behind the feats is that they build upon the idea that a sorcerer gains magic through his bloodline. It's normally assumed that this is but one possible explanation for the source of magic for a sorcerer.
Well, while not having the Bloodline feats, Mongoose's Quintessential Sorcerer devotes more than a few pages to bloodlines being the possible explanation for the sorcerer's magic. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 16:02:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Oh and Sirius, I think Dawnforge is the setting in question...
I thought so, but couldn't recall. Thanks.  |
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Darth KTrava
Learned Scribe
USA
172 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2004 : 03:12:50
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| If I recall, there's mention of Bloodlines in the Unearthed Arcana book. I'm not sure if it's general or aimed mostly at sorcerers as I don't own the book. Didn't see much if any use out of it from my POV. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2004 : 04:55:14
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If someone wants a 'canon' glimpse as to a possible link between sorcerors and dragon bloodlines they might want to look at the "Temptation of Elminster" hardcover (pages 100-101) which notes the dragonsblood experiments undertaken by one Cordorlar in the waning days of Netheril.
-- George Krashos
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2004 : 05:08:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Darth KTrava
If I recall, there's mention of Bloodlines in the Unearthed Arcana book. I'm not sure if it's general or aimed mostly at sorcerers as I don't own the book. Didn't see much if any use out of it from my POV.
Do you mean the Blood as Power feat? Or is it elsewhere within that product? |
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The Quintessential Series
