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Elrond Half Elven
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
322 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Mar 2004 : 12:10:50
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Hello
Since Rad mention this series in a recent discussion with me, I have been wondering what this series really is like. I have heard mixed reviews about them, some people hold them up as excellent, and similar in content to the old 2nd Edition "Book of..." guides that we all came to love. However other said that the material present is truly horrible and is the very bread of min/maxers. Ok so there probally has been another post abotu these else where in Candlekeep, and I appologize if there has been!
In short what are these Resources really like?
Hanx
Elrond
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Edited by - Alaundo on 24 Aug 2004 09:36:32
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2004 : 14:27:20
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Surprisingly, I've never purchased any of the Quintessential tomes from the series.
During April last year, when my Oriental Adventures/Kara-Tur campaign was in it's formative stages, I was tempted to purchase the 'Samurai' book in the hope of pillaging some ideas, but several negative reviews (which I never normally allow to make the decision to purchase a game book for me), and my greater need to purchase Legions of Hell made me decide against it.
From all the reviews I've read, only the Wizard and Sorcerer books are considered worthwhile purchases, but then I suppose it is really all dependent upon which classes are heavily featured in your campaign. For example, if your running a game in the Midnight setting, the Quintessential Wizard is not going to be very useful, due to that settings lack of nearly all forms of magic.
Although, next month is a relatively 'lite' month for me in terms of gaming purchases...maybe I'll pick up one or three of these books, and make a judgement for myself.
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2004 : 15:54:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
From all the reviews I've read, only the Wizard and Sorcerer books are considered worthwhile purchases, but then I suppose it is really all dependent upon which classes are heavily featured in your campaign.
I've got four from this line: Sorcerer, Fighter, Rogue, and Elf. I like the ones I have, but it's hit and miss at times even with them in regards to some content. Sage is dead on, if your campaign really features a certain class, it might be worth a look. If it doesn't, spend the money elsewhere.
I will say as of late the quality of Mongoose products in terms of binding, writing, editing, and proof reading have really slipped. It got so bad that one of the company's representatives had to post online the steps they were doing to correct the problems. Thus, I've stopped buying Mongoose products and will not buy anything from them until the Lone Wolf book comes out in April. I'm too much of a fan of the series to ignore that product. But, what I find when I purchase it will determine if I ever buy anything again from Moongoose. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2004 : 16:14:48
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The other topics on this are here and here 
I havent bought any of the series for a while but currently own:
Druid, Ranger, Rogue, Witch, Elf, Barbarian, Bard, Drow and Half-Orc.
I hope to complete the collection eventually as well as the Ultimate series by Mongoose....although they are VERY expensive but from the ones I have (Ultimate... Prestige Classes, Feats, Equipment Guide, Game Designers Companion, Arcane Spellbook and Monsters) im quite impressed. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2004 : 16:19:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Rad
Druid, Ranger, Rogue, Witch, Elf, Barbarian, Bard, Drow and Half-Orc.
Drow and Ranger I had but got rid of. I just saw nothing interesting there especially in the Drow guide. I'm glad someone enjoyed them and I really liked the companion piece to the Drow book, Sheloth, that detailed a dark elf city in the Underdark. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2004 : 03:25:10
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I will say as of late the quality of Mongoose products in terms of binding, writing, editing, and proof reading have really slipped. It got so bad that one of the company's representatives had to post online the steps they were doing to correct the problems. Thus, I've stopped buying Mongoose products and will not buy anything from them until the Lone Wolf book comes out in April. I'm too much of a fan of the series to ignore that product. But, what I find when I purchase it will determine if I ever buy anything again from Moongoose.
You are right. I know my few copies of Mongoose books are in a severe state of disrepair thanks to poor binding. And this is only from limited use, since most of the tomes only have material in them that I use occassionally.
I haven't purchased anything from Mongoose over the last six months (unless it was absolutely necessary for a campaign). I'm probably just going to wait until the Lone Wolf RPG is released here, much like Sirius intends, before I buy another Mongoose book.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2004 : 08:18:40
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I spend entirely TOO much on products, and I have to admit I've bought most of the whole series, and IMO it is truly hit and miss, I loved elf, hated dwarf, loved sor, hated ranger, so hopefully you get the idea.
One sidenote though,the Legends & Lairs series, almost all of their products get 2 thumbs up. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2004 : 08:23:43
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Hmmm...I'd heard that about the Legends and Lairs series...some of them look very useful. Tell me Prince Forge, have you had any exposure to their Portals and Planes, and Sorcery and Steam books...? I've been thinking about purchasing them and would appreciate any comments you may have on these two books of the series.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2004 : 16:51:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Prince Forge of Avalon
I spend entirely TOO much on products, and I have to admit I've bought most of the whole series, and IMO it is truly hit and miss, I loved elf, hated dwarf, loved sor, hated ranger, so hopefully you get the idea.
I got to read through Quintessential Dwarf and I agree with you as well on that item. Even Green Ronin, my favorite D20 company, is hit and miss when it produces books similar to the Quintessential line. I enjoyed Green Ronin's Noble Handbook, but disliked their assassin book. |
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Brother Ezra
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2004 : 03:49:47
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| I only own one of the "Quintessential X" books (the Q Cleric), and I found the information to be innovative. Aside from the gratuitous prestige classes and feats, there was information about creating a church hierarchy, roles for clerics within that hierarchy, rules for using relics (remains of dead clerics) as items of divine power. Of most interest to me were rules about the gathering and maintenance of a congregation, and what additional power that congregation can give the cleric. Very helpful in my campaign where the church of Ilmater is very similar in power and influence to the Catholic Church of the middle ages. |
"Suffering is the touchstone of all spiritual growth."
-St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 00:57:51
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Here's something one of you may be able to address for me...
A DM friend of mine suggested that I pick up the Quintessential Rogue...What are all your collective thoughts on this particular book from the series...?
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 04:14:07
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
A DM friend of mine suggested that I pick up the Quintessential Rogue...What are all your collective thoughts on this particular book from the series...?
Which one? To my knowledge, Mongoose has two Quintessential Rogue books out now, Part I which was written in 3.0 and Quint. Rogue II which is 3.5. I own the former, not the latter. Thus, if you have any specific questions about that one let me know.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 04:22:03
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Well, I guess the first tome then, mainly because I'm still in the process of updating most of my campaigns to 3.5e.
What are the feats, and skills presented in the tome like?. Are they useful for rogue-based campaigns, or is there really nothing new there...?
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 04:43:29
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
What are the feats, and skills presented in the tome like?. Are they useful for rogue-based campaigns, or is there really nothing new there...?
Oh, if you want a rogue based campaign, this is a good purchase. It has tools of the trade for items a rogue would use, poison and their manufacture, traps and their construction, thieves guilds and their organizations, almost a little bit of everything and definitely what I think would be useful for a rogue campaign.
It doesn't have new skills, but has something called tricks of the trade, where skills from the core book can be used in new ways. For example, using bluff as a card shark skill. That section is 9 pages. New feats are given seven pages and stand out as an example of the book being designed not for thieves, but rogues as more than a couple would be well suited for someone who acts as an assassin or bounty hunter.
I hope that helps. Looking through it again to make sure I got my information right reminded me of how good I felt the book was and why I originally liked Mongoose products.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 04:47:19
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It does indeed...Thanks Sirius  .
Those 'tricks of the trade' sound especially interesting. Do they have any prerequisites, or are they just standard skills?. Also, are there any prestige classes detailed...?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 04:57:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
It does indeed...Thanks Sirius .
Those 'tricks of the trade' sound especially interesting. Do they have any prerequisites, or are they just standard skills?. Also, are there any prestige classes detailed...?
You are welcome.
Thirteen pages devoted to Prestige Classes, from Agent of the Crown (my fave) to Tomb Raider. The tricks of the trade are just the standard skills like appraise used in new ways. For example, that skill used one way will allow a rogue to determine an item's history (area or origin and/or what race created). I recall saying when I first read this section that it was just putting in writing what many DMs probably already do, letting the standard skills be used in non-traditional ways. But, hats off to Mongoose for recognizing that and putting it within the book for those who have campaigns that don't have that happening. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 16 Mar 2004 04:58:20 |
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Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 09:16:17
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My apologies in not getting back to this thread earlier,
I agree with SiriusBlack on the Q Rogue (1st one) I also own this and like it. I just purchsed QII I'll let you know once I've had a chance to review it.
I never bought S&S (I'm not a big fan of mixing my campaigns with Quasi tech, sorry) but I did buy P&P,
ok let me review it real quick......couple of intresting PrC's, some planar feats, planar spells,info on portals(making, traits etc), info on world/plane building, lots of details/Fluf on certain sections.
Sample worlds, some monsters (Ilike the Avatar of Justice), as with almost all L&L products lots of good ideas and more, all in all more detail oriented than WOTC's product.
I guess it all depends on how much you use other planes in your campaign, let me know if you need more info..PFoA
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 09:43:16
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| Portals & Planes, isnt that the one you asked about? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 09:48:52
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Ah, yes it was. Now tell me, do you have the Manual of the Planes from WotC? If you do, would you rank Portals and Planes as better or worse than MotP?.
I know you said it was better detailed than the WotC product, but I was just wondering about a general comparison of the two tomes.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 10:03:54
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Well MotP is way more true detail oriented, L&L products are more Fluf oriented, its really a personal prefrence call.
Motp 222 pages/ P&P 170 pages, it really is the old fluf vs crunch argument.
For the money MotP is probably the better bang for the buck. But I'm glad I have them both
PFoA |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 10:16:41
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Well, considering all the Planescape material, and fan-fluff that I have, I guess I'll soon be adding Portals and Planes to my collection. I'll review myself first though, provided the store owners don't grumble about me and my 'aisle-reading'.
Thanks Prince Forge...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 16:12:19
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| One last note on the Quintessential Rogue I for The Sage. Be forewarned, this product came out before WOTC issued a Code of Conduct for D20 Material. Thus, if I recall correctly, there is some topless nudity in the Quintessential Rogue. Despite this vile content, I hope you take my word that the product is quite harmless. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 16:29:24
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
One last note on the Quintessential Rogue I for The Sage. Be forewarned, this product came out before WOTC issued a Code of Conduct for D20 Material. Thus, if I recall correctly, there is some topless nudity in the Quintessential Rogue. Despite this vile content, I hope you take my word that the product is quite harmless.
Ya wouldnt happen to work for Mongoose would you Sirius?
::suddenly sales of Quintessential Rogue soar through the roof:: 
When did WotC actually revise this code? I bought the Quintessential Witch which I believe is one of the later books and its riddled with nudity! :-O Theres also some in Barbarian too, IIRC |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 16:35:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Rad
Ya wouldnt happen to work for Mongoose would you Sirius?
If I wrote for Mongoose, I'd have a noose around my head right now with some of the editing and proofreading errors that have riddled their recent products.
quote:
::suddenly sales of Quintessential Rogue soar through the roof::
Not anymore, WOTC has the corner on the nipple market.
quote:
When did WotC actually revise this code? I bought the Quintessential Witch which I believe is one of the later books and its riddled with nudity! :-O Theres also some in Barbarian too, IIRC
Right before the Book of Erotic Fantasy came out. That product was originally going to be D20, but with the changes, it went to OGL. I want to say late last year, Octoberish....After the new Code of Conduct was announced, Mongoose stated it would comply with the no more frontal nudity guidelines. Thus, any products since then apparently will not feature a nipple.
I don't know how I'll be able to go on now. <we really need a rolling eye smilie which I would insert right here> |
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Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 18:35:58
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Anytime Sage, If anyone here has any questions on Products feel free to ask or email me, I truly have an overflowing amount and would be happy to comment on any products and their content
I never offered while I was on WOTC site, It's only because I find Candlekeep such a quality group of people that I offer.
PFoA |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 01:00:47
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
One last note on the Quintessential Rogue I for The Sage. Be forewarned, this product came out before WOTC issued a Code of Conduct for D20 Material. Thus, if I recall correctly, there is some topless nudity in the Quintessential Rogue. Despite this vile content, I hope you take my word that the product is quite harmless.
I appreciate the warning Sirius. While I would normally frown on a gaming product with such illustrations, the gaming content that you have highlighted in this tome far outweighs my opinions on nudity in gaming books. Besides, it seems rather childish to be influenced by such displays, most of us are adults here (I hope), and should (note that I said should) know better...
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 01:02:24
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Now, onto something more tasteful.
I'm also looking into purchasing the 'Quintessential Paladin', and from everything I've read, this tome appears to be one of the best in the series. Does anyway care to support or deny these reviews...?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 04:02:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm also looking into purchasing the 'Quintessential Paladin', and from everything I've read, this tome appears to be one of the best in the series. Does anyway care to support or deny these reviews...?
I recall looking through this some time ago and not finding anything that leaped out at me to warrant purchasing it. Sorry I can't be more specific about it, but hopefully someone else will be able to help. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 04:12:42
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Actually, your thought on the tome does help a little. You see, I really didn't care for the thoughts of the gamers who wrote the reviews for the 'Paladin' book. Most of the gamers, and their reviews seemed tied into exploiting the 'Paladin' book for power-gaming purposes, striving to make the standard paladin some kind of avenging engine of mass destruction, all at the beck and call of a supreme deity...Definitely not my cup of hot java...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 04:31:08
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Actually, your thought on the tome does help a little. You see, I really didn't care for the thoughts of the gamers who wrote the reviews for the 'Paladin' book. Most of the gamers, and their reviews seemed tied into exploiting the 'Paladin' book for power-gaming purposes, striving to make the standard paladin some kind of avenging engine of mass destruction, all at the beck and call of a supreme deity...Definitely not my cup of hot java...
Oh Cyric, those groups are always fun. I'm the exact opposite, when I look at an item, even prestige classes, I'm looking for the ideas first. Is there something there that can tie into something I've done in my campaign or something that will allow me to introduce a new element to the story? Ideas first, I'll worry about adding my scimitars later so I can then go kill the avatar of some god. |
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The Quintessential Series
