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Baptor
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Aug 2015 : 14:41:43
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Sages, I've seen the Realms represented many different ways over the many years I've played in it (2e - 5e).
Everyone it seems defines terms like "low fantasy" and "high fantasy" differently, so I will try not to use them.
In 2e, it seems they never quite knew what genre FR was supposed to be. In most representations (and in all the video games like BG and IWD) it was represented as a classic fantasy setting, quasi-Renaissance, like Hamlet with spells. However in some representations you had anything from wizards blinking in and out at will to flying ships and space travel.
In 3e, it seems there was a lot of work done to pretend the space ships were all some fevered dream of a madman and return to a more classic fantasy root, albeit with the conceits of the 3rd edition rules set. Some of the fantastical elements (Halruua's flying ships, for example) were still around but were delegated to a minor role and were often treated like the family member you pretend doesn't exist.
In 4e, which is canon regardless of whether we want it to be or not, there was a huge shift towards the fantastical. Flying earth motes, magical plagues, exotic races from other worlds, a new cosmology that encouraged intra-planar travel, and more.
Now 5e is here, and while we don't know everything yet, 5e seems to be a little confused as well. If you look at the Adventure Paths already released, you'll see everything from art promoting classic fantasy to crazy stone bridges suspended in mid-air and soaring flying fortresses controlled by air princes and so forth.
So....I say all of that to ask this. What genre is the Realms supposed to be anyways? Has Ed every laid out his vision for it? From the Elminster's Guide, it would seem he'd always intended it to be more of a down-to-earth classic fantasy, but I could be reading it wrong. Is there some kind of consensus among the sages here?
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Jesus said, "I am the Ressurection and the Life. Anyone who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and those who live and believe in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2015 : 15:18:05
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The Realms are what you make of it.
Sounds cheesy, I know, but its the truth. I could run a typical generic High/Low Fantasy game there, a Xanthian corn-fest straight our of the ridiculous zone, a creepy Gothic horror campaign a'la Ravenloft, a swashbuckling pirate or Robin Hood style campaign, a Japanese anime' with all sorts of strange 'powers' (Spellfire, Wild Surges, Plague-Touched) that keep escalating to beat the next boss, or Space-Opera like campaign with flying (sea) ships and strange aliens, or a Cthulian tentacle romp with aberrations galore (Phaerim, Sharn, Malaugrym, etc).
And thats what makes it special - no-one tells us what it is supposed to be; we figure it out for ourselves (and we all see it differently). One World, a thousand different ways to spin it.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Baptor
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2015 : 16:09:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The Realms are what you make of it.
Sounds cheesy, I know, but its the truth. I could run a typical generic High/Low Fantasy game there, a Xanthian corn-fest straight our of the ridiculous zone, a creepy Gothic horror campaign a'la Ravenloft, a swashbuckling pirate or Robin Hood style campaign, a Japanese anime' with all sorts of strange 'powers' (Spellfire, Wild Surges, Plague-Touched) that keep escalating to beat the next boss, or Space-Opera like campaign with flying (sea) ships and strange aliens, or a Cthulian tentacle romp with aberrations galore (Phaerim, Sharn, Malaugrym, etc).
And thats what makes it special - no-one tells us what it is supposed to be; we figure it out for ourselves (and we all see it differently). One World, a thousand different ways to spin it.
That is truly inspirational, and it means a lot coming from you Markustay, thank you. I've been agonizing over it because with all the upheaval (pun intended) in the Realms I was uncertain which direction to take it. |
Jesus said, "I am the Ressurection and the Life. Anyone who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and those who live and believe in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2015 : 04:10:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptor
So....I say all of that to ask this. What genre is the Realms supposed to be anyways? Has Ed every laid out his vision for it? From the Elminster's Guide, it would seem he'd always intended it to be more of a down-to-earth classic fantasy, but I could be reading it wrong. Is there some kind of consensus among the sages here?
I doubt that you'll find any kind of consensus these days, because everyone runs a modified Realms - including or excising things depending upon their personal tastes.
If you're talking about the canon Realms, I suppose it might best be called "Post-Apocalypse Kitchen Sink Gorgonzola Fantasy" because canon quite literally includes everything from Shattered World phenomena to Spelljammer-Planescape goofball themes, but also Tolkienesque High Fantasy to pseudo-Lovecraftian themes. The overall metastory includes every concept ever published for D&D, and that involves a metric ton of cheese.
I don't think anyone except the novel writers actually adhere to canon. There are many who eject quite a lot of Realms history, or pick and choose like a Pick-A-Mix candy bag. Some run low fantasy with high intrigue and tons of deep roleplay, others run high fantasy with plane-hopping epic characters, and still others are running games involving just quick encounters.
Personally, I run a classic fantasy Realms with a quasi-Renaissance feel, extremely high in details for intrigue, so quite a lot like 2E. That said, I don't use anything from Spelljammer or Planescape at all, as I prefer my own planar ecology and cosmology. I also run the gods as distant and mysterious, with multiple human and demi-human pantheons that sometimes culturally come into conflict - none of this "all war gods are merely avatars of a real war god" either. I had no Time of Troubles, as I don't portray the gods as juvenile or monocular vision entities. And I never had any need or use for the shadow weave or twinned planets or spellplagues or sunderings, so none of that stuff is involved in my Realms.
So in many ways, my Realms bears very little resemblance to the canon Realms. Some might even say that I'm not authentic. But after decades of running my Realms my way, I know what I like and really that's the only important thing. Others will run their own Realms that are dramatically different than mine on many levels, and that's absolutely fine too.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 18 Aug 2015 04:19:39 |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2015 : 16:16:37
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| The vast majority of descriptions I've heard or witnessed in the online realm describe FR as "high-fantasy" and to me that sounds about right. I don't think I've heard anyone describe FR as "low fantasy." |
Edited by - Veritas on 20 Aug 2015 16:17:34 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4431 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2015 : 00:07:33
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When I think of the Realms, I think high-fantasy with a "...and the kitchen sink" approach. Pretty much every single earth-based culture (except for the possibility of ancient Greece) can be located somewhere in the Forgotten Realms. Asian/Kara-Tur, Egyptian/Mulhorand, Medieval/Cormyr & Western Heartlands, Arabian/Calimshan, Mageocracy/Thay & Halurra, Techo-advanced/Lantan, Gothic Horror/4e Thay & Vaasa plus connections to Ravenloft, Jungle Wilderness/Chult, plus many more. Also, exotic races were all over the place before 4e came out. You had demon-blooded Orcs and Elves, 5 sub-races of Elf, 4 sub-races of Dwarf, dragon-kin, Planetouched, Genasi, and even took races from other settings lime Thri-Kreen from Dark Sun and A Lender from Dragonlance.
Frankly, there's no genre the setting hasn't touched upon in its entire history. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2015 : 01:09:03
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Chessenta is supposed to be greece influenced.
Calimport is actually predominately Turkish influenced I believe, not Arab, Zakahara is Arab influenced primarily (although not exclusively).
I'd say FR is Soap Opera Fantasy, which is appart of its appeal. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4431 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2015 : 04:41:55
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| Thanks Gyor, still remains the fact that you can run any sort of campaign that has earth-based origins or influence in the Realms not to mention most genres too. Hence the "...and the kitchen sing" approach the setting has. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6655 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2015 : 07:17:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Chessenta is supposed to be greece influenced.
Calimport is actually predominately Turkish influenced I believe, not Arab, Zakahara is Arab influenced primarily (although not exclusively).
I'd say FR is Soap Opera Fantasy, which is appart of its appeal.
To be clear, it was TSR/WotC that imprinted Earth-analogues on Realms locations, likely because they thought the fans needed such touchstones or because the designers/writers felt more comfortable borrowing and adapting rather than creating. Ed's Chessenta and Calimport did not have overt real world analogues, but then again, his versions were also relatively undetailed.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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GungHo
Seeker
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2015 : 16:16:59
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| Magic is pervasive, but it's not quite technology (though there are techno-magical things like airships). There's room for a lot of styles, though some, like pretending magic is rare, kind of hard to pull off without changing broad themes and changing "physics". Other than that, if you can think of it, you can put it there. If you want to do Conan, it works. If you want to Lord of the Rings, it works. If you want to do Princess Bride, it works, though Miracle Max's miracle isn't all that miraculous. |
Edited by - GungHo on 21 Aug 2015 16:18:15 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2015 : 17:00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by GungHo
Magic is pervasive, but it's not quite technology (though there are techno-magical things like airships). There's room for a lot of styles, though some, like pretending magic is rare, kind of hard to pull off without changing broad themes and changing "physics". Other than that, if you can think of it, you can put it there. If you want to do Conan, it works. If you want to Lord of the Rings, it works. If you want to do Princess Bride, it works, though Miracle Max's miracle isn't all that miraculous.
What are the stats for a Holocaust cloak?  |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7981 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2015 : 21:50:25
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AD&D-era FR (circa 1357DR) seemed more quasi-Medieval than quasi-Renaissance to me. More guilds, less universities. Much Feudal obeisance, though players would tend to forget their place unless sternly reminded from above or sternly abusing those below. Inventions like smokepowder were hardly impressive (and disdained) in a world already filled with alchemists and fireballs. Talented inventors (mostly obsessive crazy hermetic gnomes or bumbling academicians filled with vast repositories of useless trivia) were equally unimpressive (and disdained) in a world filled with wizards who could create anything, priests who could heal anything, dwarves who could fix anything. Characters like Nadul DaRoni might be seen as brilliant (or at least as brilliant ripoffs) by readers in our world but live a hard scrabbling life in their own. Gondish priests are less a respected religious Order and more the sort of thing that parents use in frightening bedtime tales - and this in a world already filled with orcs and trolls and worse!
People seem to automatically accept a Science-vs-Magic dichotomy. Going so far as to apply "scientific" logic and rules and explanations in magical workings. But remember that all of our loftiest science ultimately breaks down to simplest explanations for simple observations - and if "magic" is the only "scientific" explanation possible then they are essentially exactly identical things. Not exactly opposite things. We know magic exists in the Realms and can be easily observed, proven, reproduced in the Realms - but that doesn't automatically condemn the entire body of science.
So I would call the Realms a "fantasy-medieval" setting. Canon from 3E onwards be damned! |
[/Ayrik] |
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What is Forgotten Realms's Genre?
