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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1297 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 00:04:10
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| Any update on Sembia? post Shade? |
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Gambit
Learned Scribe
110 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 00:57:51
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It says the isle of Gwynneth has become even more fey and mysterious, home to the elven realm of Sarifal, under the rule of High Lady Ordalf. In the north of the island the High Lady's son, Prince Araithe, leads the struggle against the darker fey of the forest of Winterglen. The Prince is a pragmatist willing to accept aid in fending off his peoples foes and will allow adventuring groups to land on Gwynneth if they pledge to aid the cause. It also briefly mentions Synnoria and the Myrloch Vale.
Vhaeraun, CE God of Thieves. Trickery Domain. Black mask with blue grass lenses inset over eyes. "Selvetarm is god of warriors, and therefore patron of male drow, although perhaps not so much as Vhaeraun, the rogue god of thievery and of drow males who rebel against the matriarchy." (thats all of it)
Myth Drannor, the book goes over most of the recent events towards the front, up to the year 1489. It just says Netheril was brought crashing down on Myth Drannor, resulting in the cataclysmic destruction of both. The Evereska section does mention that its seen its largest influx of new citizens in many centuries in the form of their Cormanthan brethren.
Sembia is trying to play nice after its defeat, focusing on becoming an economic power again. It "allowed" Featherdale and Taassledale to regain their independence. Relations with Cormyr and the Dales are cool, but Sembian merchants are quick to dismiss previous conflicts as the work of the Netherese. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 01:00:45
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| So Vhaeraun seems to have kept his portfolio, at least. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 01:03:10
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Thanks! Looking forward to getting the book myself.  |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 01:04:51
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| I'm a little disappointed so far, and I actually debated canceling my pre-order, but I decided to still get it. At least it has some updates |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3811 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 01:43:09
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
So Vhaeraun seems to have kept his portfolio, at least.
Yeah. At the end it is just a matter of little importance, but for a deity called ''The Lady of the Dance'', or ''The Dark Dancer'', losing the portfolio of Dance is quite ironic... |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 01:44:12
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| That is weird. Hmmm |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 02:19:08
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| It'd be nice if they explained *how* the gods returned, especially ones like V and E. If Ao decided to rewrite the Tablets, okay, but I would like some detail. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 02:21:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
So Vhaeraun seems to have kept his portfolio, at least.
Yeah. At the end it is just a matter of little importance, but for a deity called ''The Lady of the Dance'', or ''The Dark Dancer'', losing the portfolio of Dance is quite ironic...
I think folks might be reading a little more into the portfolio listings than is appropriate. In the end, we're talking about a couple of words in a chart.
Does anyone really think that Eilistraee isn't still the drow goddess of dance because of that chart? Do folks think that omission implies a substantive change? I doubt very much that including "song, beauty, dance, swordwork, hunting, [and] moonlight" (the 2E list from [I]Demihuman Deities[I]) would have fit. Lolth had evil, darkness, chaos, assassins, and the drow race as part of her portfolio in 2E, too, and I don't think anyone is interpreting the SCAG listing to mean that she somehow lost any of those areas of influence.
I usually try to keep as quiet as I can on these things, and let people form their own opinions, but for the deity listings, I wouldn't assume that something that could be subsumed in another portfolio element being missing indicates a deity has lost that portfolio item. Certain gods with certain portfolios, sure, but "dance" can very easily fall under "song," especially on a summary chart with very little room to expand.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 02:23:37
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| Then they should have done more than a simple summary chart. But I get your point. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3811 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 02:23:53
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
It'd be nice if they explained *how* the gods returned, especially ones like V and E. If Ao decided to rewrite the Tablets, okay, but I would like some detail.
I don't think that they will ever explain how, just leave it at that they're back. I've already said multiple times that I'd love to see the lore about Eilistraee and Vhaeraun as archfey being published, but I'm losing hope that WotC will even consider releasing it. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe
Australia
243 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 02:36:49
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
It'd be nice if they explained *how* the gods returned, especially ones like V and E. If Ao decided to rewrite the Tablets, okay, but I would like some detail.
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I don't think that they will ever explain how, just leave it at that they're back. I've already said multiple times that I'd love to see the lore about Eilistraee and Vhaeraun as archfey being published, but I'm losing hope that WotC will even consider releasing it.
For many the Spellplague is a scab on the Forgotten Realms. To continue to revisit the spellplague and it's effects is to keep picking at that scab. WotC simply wants to let it heal and move on.
That isn't making a judgement value (I was first introduced to D&D and the Forgotten Realms with 4th ed so the Spellplague was the FR that I was first aware of and I'm considering running a campaign post-Spellplague). As a DM I am more than capable of coming up with lore (and have) that helps customise the realms to fit in more with what my ideal FR is. Publishing lore on this specific topic would both keep revisiting old wounds and would also limit what DMs could do with all this (assuming said DM wants to remain consistent with canon).
There is definitely value in revisiting these subjects. But I think the negatives outweigh the positives. |
DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures. |
Edited by - JohnLynch on 26 Oct 2015 02:37:24 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 02:39:09
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| Explanations would help heal the scab, in my opinion, but okay. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3811 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 02:40:33
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
It'd be nice if they explained *how* the gods returned, especially ones like V and E. If Ao decided to rewrite the Tablets, okay, but I would like some detail.
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I don't think that they will ever explain how, just leave it at that they're back. I've already said multiple times that I'd love to see the lore about Eilistraee and Vhaeraun as archfey being published, but I'm losing hope that WotC will even consider releasing it.
For many the Spellplague is a scab on the Forgotten Realms. To continue to revisit the spellplague and it's effects is to keep picking at that scab. WotC simply wants to let it heal and move on.
That isn't making a judgement value (I was first introduced to D&D and the Forgotten Realms with 4th ed so the Spellplague was the FR that I was first aware of and I'm considering running a campaign post-Spellplague). As a DM I am more than capable of coming up with lore (and have) that helps customise the realms to fit in more with what my ideal FR is. Publishing lore on this specific topic would both keep revisiting old wounds and would also limit what DMs could do with all this (assuming said DM wants to remain consistent with canon).
There is definitely value in revisiting these subjects. But I think the negatives outweigh the positives.
Yes, you make a valid point. Given the reaction a lot of people had to the changes that 4e/end 3e brought to the Realms, WotC doesn't really have good reasons to explain many of the changes beyond the simple ''Ao did it''. However, who knows, some articles, or tidbits in novels could be good way to deliver this kind of information. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 02:43:40
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| I can see the reasoning behind it, but it's still disappointing. Then again, maybe WotC feels they'll disappoint no matter what they do, which is a terrible position to be in and kind of sad. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 02:48:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Gambit
I have the book in front of me, you guys ask me anything you want, lore or crunch.
Does it say anything about Dark Elves (not drow) and the city in the High Moor Steve created in Blackstaff? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Gambit
Learned Scribe
110 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 03:45:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Gambit
I have the book in front of me, you guys ask me anything you want, lore or crunch.
Does it say anything about Dark Elves (not drow)
Dark elves that aren't drow? I mean I know thats a thing in Dragonlance, but I'm not sure what you are talking about in the FR sense.
quote:
and the city in the High Moor Steve created in Blackstaff?
There is a paragraph on Rhymanthiin: Hidden City of Hope, I am guessing this is what you are referring to (I never read the Blackstaff novel). |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3811 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 03:54:51
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He's referring to the followers of Eilistraee that were uncursed by Q'arlynd Melarn, at the end of 3e. If the section about the elves and Eilistraee doesn't talk about them, then I doubt that they are in the book.
They were supposed to go Rhymanthiin after their transformation, but I guess that WotC is acting as if Lady Penitent never happened. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 04:07:56
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Yep Rhymanthiin
As for Dark elves at the end of Lady Pentient trilogy they use High magic to reverse the Dark elves transformation into drow.
At the time if you where a Follower or Cleric of Ellistrae or if you bloodline hadnt been contaminated with the Balor Wendai taint (basicly if you didnt have a Demon ancestor)then they where transformed into Dark elves at the end of the novel.
Rhymanthiin was a city in a Dark elf Kingdom where the High moor is. The Sun Elf kingdom Aryvandaar used high magic to destroy the Dark elf kingdom with a massive lightning storm that created the High Moor during the crown wars, in reponse another Dark elf kingdom far to the south after hearing what had happaned responded to the Sun elf genocide by commiting the own acts of genocide. The Dark elf kingdom lost the war and the Elven High Mages transformed the Dark elves into drow and forced them underground. But they did it not just to those Dark elves that commited genocide but ALL dark elves including those Dark elves who had survived the Lightning storms |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3811 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 13:46:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
So Vhaeraun seems to have kept his portfolio, at least.
Yeah. At the end it is just a matter of little importance, but for a deity called ''The Lady of the Dance'', or ''The Dark Dancer'', losing the portfolio of Dance is quite ironic...
I think folks might be reading a little more into the portfolio listings than is appropriate. In the end, we're talking about a couple of words in a chart.
Does anyone really think that Eilistraee isn't still the drow goddess of dance because of that chart? Do folks think that omission implies a substantive change? I doubt very much that including "song, beauty, dance, swordwork, hunting, [and] moonlight" (the 2E list from [I]Demihuman Deities[I]) would have fit. Lolth had evil, darkness, chaos, assassins, and the drow race as part of her portfolio in 2E, too, and I don't think anyone is interpreting the SCAG listing to mean that she somehow lost any of those areas of influence.
I usually try to keep as quiet as I can on these things, and let people form their own opinions, but for the deity listings, I wouldn't assume that something that could be subsumed in another portfolio element being missing indicates a deity has lost that portfolio item. Certain gods with certain portfolios, sure, but "dance" can very easily fall under "song," especially on a summary chart with very little room to expand.
Yes, I thought that Dance was no longer among her portfolio. Considering that, unlike Lolth, Eilistraee has disappeared and then been reborn, losing something isn't out of the question, especially given the bit of info about her in Spellstorm. I was even under the impression that she had become a demipower, or something along those lines. At the end it's just a minor matter, but thanks for clarifying.
EDIT: I'm talking about her small description, where the list includes every single 2e portfolio, save for dance. That's what made it rather puzzling. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 26 Oct 2015 13:52:53 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1628 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 14:37:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Gambit
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Its not just Sharess that's left out, but most of the demigods. That's very disappointing, they were supposed to bring the Pantheons back, not dump the demigods.
I'm looking at both the 3E FRCS and SCAG right now, here is a breakdown of the Faerunian pantheon demigod deities (those who had a "D" next to their name in the FRCS) who both made the new book and those who were left out.
Included:
Gwaeron Windstrom
Hoar
Jergal
Red Knight
Sarvas
Valkur
Not included:
Finder Wyvernspur
Garagos
Gargauth
Lurue (though she is mentioned in the Mielikki section)
Nobanion
Sharess
Shiallia
Siamorphe
Ulutiu
Velsharoon
Well I know a chosen of Siamorphe is still there, she has a chosen in Sundering books, and Nobanion makes a direct appearance in that series as well, so I suppose that means Sharess is likely still around, but its absolutely silly that we still don't have access to the full Pantheon of Gods. |
Edited by - Gyor on 26 Oct 2015 14:42:07 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1628 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 14:48:00
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| One interesting thing I noticed when someone quoted the Mulhorandi gods sidebar, Horus and Ra are seperate beings again, state of being they haven't had since before the Orcgate War. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1628 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 14:51:17
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Then they should have done more than a simple summary chart. But I get your point.
The poor writers had no room, yet they left Gods out because WotC didn't allow them to make the book big enough. What we need is a FRCG, not the SCAG,but the SCAG is what we got.
At least is answers some questions I guess. |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 16:51:18
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| The more I've read about it the less SCAG feels like a mandatory purchase :( |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 17:18:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood
The more I've read about it the less SCAG feels like a mandatory purchase :(
If I were you, I would wait until reviews of the book are posted by people who actually own the book and have read it from cover to cover. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1297 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 17:34:44
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| If we don't buy it, we are less likely to see more published Realms lore or a true FRCS. I have to get it, just like I bought Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms. Which was so awesomesauce I hope everyone bought a spare copy. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 18:01:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood
The more I've read about it the less SCAG feels like a mandatory purchase :(
If I were you, I would wait until reviews of the book are posted by people who actually own the book and have read it from cover to cover.
And perhaps flip thru it and read some bits whilst in the bookstore. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3811 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 19:35:31
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| Is Moander mentioned anywhere in the book? |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 19:50:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
If we don't buy it, we are less likely to see more published Realms lore or a true FRCS. I have to get it, just like I bought Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms. Which was so awesomesauce I hope everyone bought a spare copy.
Agreed, it's the book that brought me back to the Realms - this time for full :) |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6383 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2015 : 20:47:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
If we don't buy it, we are less likely to see more published Realms lore or a true FRCS. I have to get it, just like I bought Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms. Which was so awesomesauce I hope everyone bought a spare copy.
I'm not sure that's how capitalism is supposed to work. If you buy something you don't like then they will continue to make something you don't like because you bought what they released previously and they will believe you want them to continue producing something you don't like because of the number of sales.
If you don't buy it then any number of things could happen, including they abandon the IP and someone else picks it up, they go bust and someone else takes over the IP (like TSR and WoTC), they realise the error of their ways and change what they produce to something you do like (after they get it wrong a few more times of course).
If coca cola abandoned all their old flavours and made only bogie flavoured coke, they would continue to produce it as long as people kept buying it.
In old dragon magazines they used to talk about the bean counters and how they were obsessed with beans and how they often missed the point of something but used to get things right purely by accident. Well now they have gotten something really wrong, but they wont realise that unless you hit them in the beans.
If you like it, then buy it, but if you don't, then to buy it is madness. |
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Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.
