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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

The things you find when you dig.

I just noted a date in my archive relating to the fall of ooltul which I have as -350 dr.
I need to figure it out because ooltul is part of xun qoroth which exists beneath the survivor states and is one reason I have for the slower spread of the desert.

However the lore for ooltul states it fell when phaerimm from myth drannor arrived who sought to breach the Sharn wall using anti magic rays.
The problem is that the Sharn wall didn't come into existence until after that date and so did myth drannor.

So I'm moving the date of ooltuls fall to 350 dr.
The phaerimm fled to the myth drannan area around the time the orcs of vastar attacked cormanthor

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Do you mean ooltul or the eight throned realm.
If it's the latter I'm thinking of having it fall in stages.

Several of its city states fall during its existence which weaken it greatly. The final death is only that of its capital on the high moors, several of the city states nearer the tunlands survive that and their mages band together to kill off gorothir

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I suppose there is no reason why it couldn't happen, although that does tend to happen far too often in the realms.

All the written lore matches up in that ooltul was outside the sharn wall then three phaerimm from myth drannor (assuming it had fallen) come and subvert the rule of the city.

By having it fall and rise again it would probably introduce more headaches than it would solve, where would the new beholders come from given that xun'qoroth is already under phaerimm control by this point and considered the beholders of ooltul to be abominations, how/why did phaerimm subvert rule of ooltul twice, how did the first fall of ooltul affect xun'qoroth.

I guess nothing is out of the question but I think a date change is probably the simplest solution here.

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal
One trouble I have found is a line in Races of Faerun which states

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Ancient Jhaamdath was one of the first human cultures to develop the written word, and, as such, literate Chondathans have long honoured Deneir, the Lord of All Glyphs and Images.
The church of Deneir has spread to other cultures as Chondathan traders spread the trade tongues of Common or its antecedent,

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and

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Chondathan merchants carried with them the teachings of Deneir, Helm, and Waukeen.

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However I believe I have an explanation. It all hinges on what you define as Chondathan, and how you interpret the first quote which doesn't specifically state that Deneir's worship originated in Jhaamdath, merely that the Chondathans have long venerated Deneir. Surely the people of Jhaamdath would be known as Jhaamdathi. So what if Chondathans are the merging of Jhaamdathi and Netherese (thus giving rise to the trade tongue which merchants spread).

So Deneir's worship starts in Candlekeep, the mixing of Netherese and Jhaamdathi people in the Heartlands carries Deneir's worship back to the Vilhon Reach and beyond. So the Chondathan merchants did spread Deneir's worship and the trade tongue, but Deneir originated in candlekeep after -200 DR.

The church formally forms in -25 DR, probably somewhere in Cormyr (where the orthodox church is centred I believe).

Just a rough idea, and not really connected to Netheril, but its part of the Diaspora which I'm focusing on as well.

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Another question regarding the tomb of thausimbel thardresk in the dungeon of swords.
It's linked via a portal to anauria and a temple of jergal which seems to explain how thardresk ended up buried in that tomb complex.

The question is who built the portal.

I ask because there is mention of a portal in the dungeon of swords to the ever moors, and it implies there are many more portals all connected like a large network.

Now I know the netherese were powerful but I always understood that portals were really powerful magic that few could master (halaster being one of the few able to do so in the modern realms)
I also find the presence of a temple of jergal in anauria as an odd occurrence. If the anaurians built the portal why stick it beneath a temple to jergal. If it was netherese why was the portal constructed so far away from anything else (the lands anauria occupied were quite far from the centre of netherils power) and why link it to the backlands.

I'm mulling over the possibility that it was actually a starring portal that the anaurians uncovered in some old ruin they found. George linked jergal to the sarrukh in his recent work and the sarrukh had outposts in the savage frontier (old owl well was one).

Any other ideas

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Originally posted by Wrigley
This problem could be solved by realising that from the moment of his ascension he is not a person but a diety so he could travel a little easier. Also his new objective as a god is to find new worshipers so it seems logical to go where most of current writting is realised - Chondathan lands after Jhaamdath diaspora. His next big temple is in Vast close to Procampur (Vault of knowledge under Earthfast mountains). As to his connection to Oghma, I think that Oghma supported his divinity as he is a god of oral tradition of preserving knowledge and history. As he seemed rise of writting he realised it is not his domain any more and wanted to address it so he gave part of his power to the most knowledgeble scribe he deemed worthy - deneir from Candlekeep (I like its netheries roots of monastic order).

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Originally posted by Wrigley
I have actualy used Anauria as a Southern diaspora kingdom saying that they were located north-west of later Cormyr (kingdom of man location) based on older netheries villas there. It also make more sense that their tomb are in region they settled than original. I am basicaly overlooking that portal stuff saying that the tombs are linked somehow like underground tunnel complex and possibly some short range "portals" using it as base of Jergalite temple there (actualy base of Order of Pallid Mask). Location is full of dead-related stuff (local marches/well of dragons) so it make sense that they keep presence there to this day (watching over them).
I am quite interested about your mention of George's link of Jergal to Sarrukh, could you please be more specific (or George if he wills it).

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I'm sure I've read in a few sources that Anauria was located in the southwest of the Anauroch basin. I have also read in a few sources that Netheril was located in the southwest of the Anauroch basin.

Unfortunately we have more than enough info about Anauria to know that it actually existed in the Crescent Lands (not sure if I made that name up or not, probably not) which is the strip of land between the scimitar spires and the desertsmouth mountains.

Its an excellent article, well worth the read, and it provides credible explanations for a number of conundrums surrounding netheril.

If you want a copy let me know. It should be spread far and wide as gospel about the secrets of Ascore and the Nether Scrolls.

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I only deal with deities in the realms so where she came from before arriving on toril I don't dwell on much, but I chose to make the early netherese migrating nomads that worshipped place spirits so tyche and indeed most netherese deities had to be interlopers.

I originally had Targus as the sarrukh god because of his link to akintaer, but later discovered kozahs link to monikar and an ancient temple beneath it and the only other things in this region prior to the netherese were elves and sarrukh. So kozah became the sarrukh deity.

It actually fit better in the end. Targus was represented as a giant sized creature with many arms, and there is a theme of many armed giantish creatures in The Ride and the moonsea region, plus the ride has a history of giant and human occupation dating back way before netheril so that's where he could have been imported from. Plus the legends have Targus, tempus, and garagos warring and merging which couldn't happen if Targus was sseth.

Kozah fit much better as the sarrukh deity because his church were dedicated to destroying netheril which is an odd goal. His portfolios match sseth better as well and his centre of power was way on the fringe of netherese territory. The only problem was his inclusion in Baldurs gate 1 as an insane vestigial remnant of kozah which again couldn't happen if he was sseth as an alias. However sseth is a serpentine deity and although he has a reputation for consuming other deities I believe those were all serpentine deities. The scaly folk regard humans as cattle at best and vermin at worst, they are a race of racial supremacists. I figured sseth would find human worship to be disgusting and so was only willing to tolerate it in order to accomplish his goal of destroying netheril, once that was achieved he no longer needed the guise of kozah and so abandoned it.

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Originally posted by Wrigley


I will try to sumarize my take as you seems to be going on very simmilar path.
Talos is a storm giants god that was defeated by Annam (cloud giants) in a bid for leadership and he left. He is bitter diety of elemental destruction and is thus bound to destroy everything not only Netheril. It make sense for them to interpret it this way as they were supremacist lot.
As for sarrukh influence in Netheril (which is proven by Teraseer) I have found Moander more than fitting. He is god of rot and corruption and in my realms his old name is Mhairshaulk.

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I only deal with deities in the realms so where she came from before arriving on toril I don't dwell on much, but I chose to make the early netherese migrating nomads that worshipped place spirits so tyche and indeed most netherese deities had to be interlopers.

I originally had Targus as the sarrukh god because of his link to akintaer, but later discovered kozahs link to monikar and an ancient temple beneath it and the only other things in this region prior to the netherese were elves and sarrukh. So kozah became the sarrukh deity.

It actually fit better in the end. Targus was represented as a giant sized creature with many arms, and there is a theme of many armed giantish creatures in The Ride and the moonsea region, plus the ride has a history of giant and human occupation dating back way before netheril so that's where he could have been imported from. Plus the legends have Targus, tempus, and garagos warring and merging which couldn't happen if Targus was sseth.

Kozah fit much better as the sarrukh deity because his church were dedicated to destroying netheril which is an odd goal. His portfolios match sseth better as well and his centre of power was way on the fringe of netherese territory. The only problem was his inclusion in Baldurs gate 1 as an insane vestigial remnant of kozah which again couldn't happen if he was sseth as an alias. However sseth is a serpentine deity and although he has a reputation for consuming other deities I believe those were all serpentine deities. The scaly folk regard humans as cattle at best and vermin at worst, they are a race of racial supremacists. I figured sseth would find human worship to be disgusting and so was only willing to tolerate it in order to accomplish his goal of destroying netheril, once that was achieved he no longer needed the guise of kozah and so abandoned it.

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Originally posted by Baltas

And returning to Tyche. I think in either On Hallowed Ground(more more probably in On Hallowed Ground) or Faiths & Avatars, it was stated Hermes of the Greek pantheon gone to search for Tyche to Toril, but was stopped by Ao.

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