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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Well i did a bit more brainstorming and a bit more research and got lucky and found a reference to Netheril and an empire of Jhothun.

So now i know where the giants that killed Malick came from. I have a reason for their invasion. And the invasion has a number of consequences that results in Netheril's decline.

The loss of the weapons of Aryvandaar being the most decisive consequence.




And i moved Thultanthar from Lake Heip to Holloway so i can link Thaeravel to shadow magic and Holloway was built in what would become the Farsea Marshes which would have been part of Thaeravel and so the archaeology expedition was actually looking for bits on shadow magic.




And does anyone think incest is taking the excesses of archwizards a bit too far?

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

And does anyone think incest is taking the excesses of archwizards a bit too far?

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

And does anyone think incest is taking the excesses of archwizards a bit too far?

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It depends on how far you take it. Making it a societal norm would be going too far, in my opinion. Having a handful of supremely arrogant wizards who think such concerns are for lessers? Yeah, I can see it in that scenario.

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Long before the rise of the first elf kingdoms of Faerūn, Jhothūn stood as the capital of a small but mighty empire

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Though the empire is long fallen -- sundered by rebellion among the provincial governors and rent by white dragons that made long war on the giants

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It fell to an army led by Netherese arcanists, and the army utterly annihilated every trace of its structures -- not even ashes remained.

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

So anyone have any ideas for side effects of excessive magic use.

I have used the mythallars to increase the breeding rates of fish in the narrow sea. This results in a number of dragons plaguing the basin to feed on the fish.

Of course the innate spellcasting ability of Netherese is one side effect. Im talking about those citizens on the enclaves that have lived for generations within the radius of multiple overlapping mythallars which results in people being born with the ability to cast simple cantrips without the need for study (kind of like what is happening in ravens bluff in 1370 with the annasherion).

So anyone have any other ideas.

I want to get across that the fall of Netheril was inevitable and was all their own fault. So I have enemies from outside and within rallying against the Netherese because of their actions, but I also want pressures brought about by their excesses that are more a response of the natural world (so too much food attracts dragons, etc).

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Netheril put more and more mythallars along strategic point in hopes of curbing the freezing effects of the ice age.
Once Netheril fell, most of the mythallars ceased functioning, and the glaciers moved southward like soldiers. Its approach turned everything in its path into a frigid wasteland—including the Narrow Sea. This large body of water froze over, finally transforming into a thick glacial sheet within 300 to 400 years.

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I am however open to suggestions if you have alternatives. I may have mentioned before but i suck at names.

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Im wondering about the Netheril Basin being home to a Dragon Overlord at some point in the past.

Sarrukh died, then the tearfall happened, then dragons appeared, warred with the giants and then nothing. Jhothun appears to have existed in the far northern reaches of the basin (The High Ice). But following the fall of Isstessofifil nothing appears to have lived in the basin until the Rengarth arrive (probably of Icehunter stock).

Of course a Dragon Overlord tends not to build many structures and just lives in his cave hoarding wealth and possibly having draconic vassals come and pay him homage every now and then. Some are active and recruit lesser races and experiment on them and build actual empires, but others are just content to be the biggest and baddest thing living in whatever territory they can grab.

The Netheril sourcebook makes numerous references to dragons in the history Gembright, Embercoat, Lightningdance, Brightstrike. The adventure for Netheril details 2 really old gold dragons. All these dragons appear to be very old and they all suddenly start becoming active from -2000 DR onwards (during the Golden Age when Netheril was full of enclaves) particularly after -1000 DR.

So perhaps the dragon overlord had been in charge there for quite some time (after all something must have kept Thauglor the purple dragon in Cormyr - the elves kept him out of Cormanthor, what kept him out of the Netheril Basin). Old dragons sleep for hundreds maybe even thousands of years.

Then we have the Morueme clan of Blue dragons (and there were mentions of at least 5 blue dragons in the Netheril sourcebook).

The legendary dragon Morueme was said to have ruled over the Silver Marches during the time of dragons. I presume the elves finished him off and drove his clan out of the north towards the Nether Mountains and the Netheril Basin. Maybe when Netheril killed the Dragon Overlord it was the Morueme clan that eventually claimed the spoils of the basin.

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I think it depends all upon the personality of the dragon.

Going by a few modern examples we have Iyrauroth who is a hoarder. His reason for hoarding is unusual (he wants to collect magic to power a ritual), but he is definitely a hoarder. He has a number of servants (half dragons and full dragons) but he has no grand structure to live in, instead he inhabits vast tunnel complexes beneath Thar.

Then we have Tchazzar, an empire builder, again his reason for empire building is unusual in that it is to attain or maintain godhood. He has a nation of human servants and they do build him grand structures (although his main lair is unknown).

More ancient is Thauglor the purple dragon of Cormyr. I'm not sure of his personality or the nation of his domain but from the few snippets it sounds like he was a dragon supremacist (i.e. he only wanted dragons living in Cormyr) and there is no evidence of any dragon ruins in Cormyr so any structure he built was probably in the Stormhorn mountains (although he may just have had a very large mountain lair).



I think the first dragon overlords were all empire builders, probably emulating the creator races and the giants that came before them. When the dracorage ended many of them other dragons took over who in turn lost to others until it was essentially a free for all of smaller kingdoms ruled by any dragon big enough to hold the land for a time.

As the elves and then humans arrived on the scene the dragon domains became smaller and smaller.


The Netheril basin is probably the exception in that there were no inhabitants organised enough to challenge a dragon (until Netheril). There is no evidence of any draconic ruins so I'm going to assume his lair was the grandest structure in his empire. Perhaps it was located in the Channel Mountains, its isolated, difficult for anyone but a dragon to get to, and the Netherese have a major fight with giants in that area and probably wake the dragon up.

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I think it depends all upon the personality of the dragon.

Going by a few modern examples we have Iyrauroth who is a hoarder. His reason for hoarding is unusual (he wants to collect magic to power a ritual), but he is definitely a hoarder. He has a number of servants (half dragons and full dragons) but he has no grand structure to live in, instead he inhabits vast tunnel complexes beneath Thar.

Then we have Tchazzar, an empire builder, again his reason for empire building is unusual in that it is to attain or maintain godhood. He has a nation of human servants and they do build him grand structures (although his main lair is unknown).

More ancient is Thauglor the purple dragon of Cormyr. I'm not sure of his personality or the nation of his domain but from the few snippets it sounds like he was a dragon supremacist (i.e. he only wanted dragons living in Cormyr) and there is no evidence of any dragon ruins in Cormyr so any structure he built was probably in the Stormhorn mountains (although he may just have had a very large mountain lair).



I think the first dragon overlords were all empire builders, probably emulating the creator races and the giants that came before them. When the dracorage ended many of them other dragons took over who in turn lost to others until it was essentially a free for all of smaller kingdoms ruled by any dragon big enough to hold the land for a time.

As the elves and then humans arrived on the scene the dragon domains became smaller and smaller.


The Netheril basin is probably the exception in that there were no inhabitants organised enough to challenge a dragon (until Netheril). There is no evidence of any draconic ruins so I'm going to assume his lair was the grandest structure in his empire. Perhaps it was located in the Channel Mountains, its isolated, difficult for anyone but a dragon to get to, and the Netherese have a major fight with giants in that area and probably wake the dragon up.

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