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mhamza
Seeker
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jun 2014 : 20:07:09
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Since all the Gods are coming back, I did some reading on the FR to re-familiarize myself with the deceased ones, and a thought struck me now since Asmodeus not only killed Azuth to absorb his divine essence but also took over as the Duergar patron God after Laduguer and Deep Duerra's deaths, doesn't this mean that he will probably be wanted dead by the aforementioned three, not to mention possibly Mystra for killing her favorite servant and the Mordinsamman, who despite their enmity with Laduguer, I don't think they can stomach a deity such as Asmodeus taking over an entire dwarven subrace.
So to summarize do any of you think he might be offed?
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Edited by - mhamza on 17 Jun 2014 20:53:40
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2014 : 00:49:18
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| Personally, I'd like to see him backstabbed by said deities working through Gargauth somehow. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2014 : 02:43:01
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| I dunno. I don't think they're going to kill him off. It'd go against their whole "all the gods are back," and "we don't want to alienate the people who loved 4E" mantras. I'm waiting for the Campaign Setting (if there is one) to see how they hand wave that conflict. I'm fine with hand waving, because that leaves the door open for me to create my own lore, but if they give a concrete explanation or hint, I'm not going to complain. That just means less work for me. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2014 : 03:17:43
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| No he wont be eliminated. Azuth will 'emerge' from him for sure (I don't know about the others). He will maintian his divinity somehow though. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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mhamza
Seeker
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2014 : 17:05:39
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
No he wont be eliminated. Azuth will 'emerge' from him for sure (I don't know about the others). He will maintian his divinity somehow though.
I suppose you're right, but still, in the future he could quite possibly end up with a target on his back. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2014 : 01:25:57
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Devils and demons should never be deities IMO. That was a bad call on the D&D front. The elevation of Asmodeus was as contrived as contrived gets.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2014 : 08:17:11
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Devils and demons should never be deities IMO. That was a bad call on the D&D front. The elevation of Asmodeus was as contrived as contrived gets.
-- George Krashos
It was a poor decision that genuinely flew in the face of prior material on Asmodeus and the particular relationship between archfiends and gods. It was one of many instances of 4e core material being forced onto pre-existing settings with little concern for did it even make sense in that content. Within a wholly new setting without any prior continuity to consider it could have worked (such as Nerath where it would have been fine), but it and some other (tieflings I'm looking at you) 4e decisions on that front hopefully see some dramatic rollback in 5e.
Best way to handle it IMO - Asmodeus was never a god -he didn't need to be- and he or his subordinates used Azuth's entrapped divine essence like a toy. Secondarily, 4e-style tieflings should ideally be presented as just one specifically diabolic tiefling lineage and a relatively minor one at that compared to the very, very different conception of what tieflings were and looked like in 2e/3e. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Edited by - Shemmy on 20 Jun 2014 08:18:55 |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2014 : 08:01:27
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| If any fiend was going to get "promoted" in FR, it should have been Gargauth or even Malkizid. Anyway, that's water under the bridge for now.... |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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mhamza
Seeker
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2014 : 10:56:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Derulbaskul
If any fiend was going to get "promoted" in FR, it should have been Gargauth or even Malkizid. Anyway, that's water under the bridge for now....
Wasn't Gargauth already a deity by then? |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2014 : 14:29:53
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quote:
Originally posted by mhamza
quote:
Originally posted by Derulbaskul
If any fiend was going to get "promoted" in FR, it should have been Gargauth or even Malkizid. Anyway, that's water under the bridge for now....
Wasn't Gargauth already a deity by then?
yes, he was. Thus, my feeling that he should backstab Asmodeus somehow. It doesn't mean he should be able to kill him... but maybe he helps free Azuth. If he does so with the aid of a returned Velsharoon, so much the better. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2014 : 14:36:31
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| In fact, if Velsharoon brought back Gargauth, Laduguer and Deep Duerra somehow, such that an alliance of all 4 turned on Asmodeus (with Mystra providing guidance to Velsharoon to make a team up.... and Velsharoon chose those 3 to ally with as they are all weakened enough that they couldn't usurp him..... it would be very interesting if those deities were brought back by Velsharoon through some powerful necromantic ritual). Hell, in return, the duergar who worshipped Orcus may turn from Orcus and worship Velsharoon. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2014 : 15:35:57
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Aren't all of these god killing god things meant to be stopping in 5e?
Just saying. |
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mhamza
Seeker
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2014 : 21:42:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
Aren't all of these god killing god things meant to be stopping in 5e?
Just saying.
Maybe so, but it would be interesting to see how a deity as cunning and ambitious as Asmodeus, who just when it seemed that all his plans had succeeded and had no one to oppose him would deal with three, possibly four very vengeful deities out to get him. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2014 : 00:39:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
Aren't all of these god killing god things meant to be stopping in 5e?
Just saying.
yeah, but that would not necessarily god killing god (in what I wrote anyway). It would be four previous gone deities coming back and ganging up on another deity in order to free another "gone" deity (that being Azuth) and just knocking Asmodeus down a peg... all at the command of a re-risen Mystra to her servant Velsharoon. And it doesn't need a novel or anything... it could all just be described in some lore as a means to explain the return of what.... 5 deities? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2014 : 00:59:32
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And hell, if Velsharoon IS using some kind of "god-level" necromantic rituals to revive lost deities like Gargauth, Laduguer, and Deep Duerra.... whose to say he doesn't bring back some other baddies, like maybe Leira, Talos (whom he does owe a debt too... and I continue to call the "Gruumsh is Talos" message BS), and Mask, who all may have a beef with Shar and/or Cyric. Hell, he may even bring back Kiaransalee, despite her having similar portfolios, as an ally against Orcus. In all of this, I assume that Velsharoon faked his own death with the Simbul, and he's been using this time to secretly garner power and hide from Shar, until he found out about Mystra's rebirth.
I'm kind of liking this idea. Maybe he found out Leira wasn't actually dead, but rather she was merely immortal and she helped him fake his own death.... and somehow the two of them were involved with the re-awakening of Mystra together. Maybe even Leira knew to fake her own death after the ToT due to a prophecy by Savras..... and she helped Savras fake HIS own death during the spellplague.... so that you could have Leira, Savras, and Velsharoon all working in the shadows to bring back Mystra and later Azuth and maybe even Auppenser. That Velsharoon later brings back a bunch of evil deities just goes to show he's not just a lackey of Mystra... he plans to gain allies for himself and expand his influence. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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mhamza
Seeker
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2014 : 00:55:12
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
And hell, if Velsharoon IS using some kind of "god-level" necromantic rituals to revive lost deities like Gargauth, Laduguer, and Deep Duerra.... whose to say he doesn't bring back some other baddies, like maybe Leira, Talos (whom he does owe a debt too... and I continue to call the "Gruumsh is Talos" message BS), and Mask, who all may have a beef with Shar and/or Cyric. Hell, he may even bring back Kiaransalee, despite her having similar portfolios, as an ally against Orcus. In all of this, I assume that Velsharoon faked his own death with the Simbul, and he's been using this time to secretly garner power and hide from Shar, until he found out about Mystra's rebirth.
I'm kind of liking this idea. Maybe he found out Leira wasn't actually dead, but rather she was merely immortal and she helped him fake his own death.... and somehow the two of them were involved with the re-awakening of Mystra together. Maybe even Leira knew to fake her own death after the ToT due to a prophecy by Savras..... and she helped Savras fake HIS own death during the spellplague.... so that you could have Leira, Savras, and Velsharoon all working in the shadows to bring back Mystra and later Azuth and maybe even Auppenser. That Velsharoon later brings back a bunch of evil deities just goes to show he's not just a lackey of Mystra... he plans to gain allies for himself and expand his influence.
SPOILER ALERT
I like your ideas, but didn't Mystra come back in one of Ed's Elminster novels?
Also, one of Laduguer's portfolios was magical craft, so IMO if he and Deep Duerra come back I can see it as being because of him storing part of their divinity in a magical hammer/axe as a backup plan.
Myrkul, could either absorb Velsharoon or make him swear an oath of fealty due to their similar portfolios. Gruumsh is Talos is ridiculous. Kiaransalee was forgotten by the mind of mortals and deities including herself so unless Ao makes everyone remember her I don't really see her coming back. Shar could sponsor Velsharoon actually, since it is stated in the wiki that he has a 'flirtatious relationship with her'. I like the idea of Leira and Savras helping the other to fake their deaths as they both have dominion over a school of magic, Illusion and Divination so I can see the two working together to arrange for Azuth's return. Gargauth, as a demipower and former archdevil could find himself in the service of Asmodeus, a Greater God and I think it would be interesting for him to gain more power as a deity, and come to dwell in the Abyss, meaning that the demons and devils would each have a deity on their side, possibly reigniting the Blood War. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3805 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2014 : 01:13:32
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| (Some) people already remember Kiaransalee's name (in The Reaver there's a passage where her name is invoked for some necromantic ritual), and Mask is already back as well (The Godborn). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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mhamza
Seeker
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2014 : 09:09:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
(Some) people already remember Kiaransalee's name (in The Reaver there's a passage where her name is invoked for some necromantic ritual), and Mask is already back as well (The Godborn).
Right, I forgot about Mask/Riven, Pre-Riven he could have helped Leira fake her death. Kiaransalee has probably been knocked down to demipower so she wouldn't be a real threat. |
Edited by - mhamza on 25 Jun 2014 10:46:58 |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2014 : 11:19:36
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| I don't think Asmodeus is going anywhere. He makes for a good villainous deity and besides the Brimstone Angels novels are pretty popular and he is kind of central to their plot. |
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mhamza
Seeker
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2014 : 16:04:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
I don't think Asmodeus is going anywhere. He makes for a good villainous deity and besides the Brimstone Angels novels are pretty popular and he is kind of central to their plot.
Fair enough he's an excellent villain and probably wouldn't die but what I want to see happen is him developing his rivalry with Gargauth, who probably hates him for kicking him out of the Nine Hells, culminating with Gargauth, in a bid to gain more power as a deity, since he's a demipower and Asmodeus is a Greater God becoming Lord of the Abyss and ensuring both sides have a deity which could reignite the Blood War. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2014 : 04:21:29
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quote:
Originally posted by mhamza
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
And hell, if Velsharoon IS using some kind of "god-level" necromantic rituals to revive lost deities like Gargauth, Laduguer, and Deep Duerra.... whose to say he doesn't bring back some other baddies, like maybe Leira, Talos (whom he does owe a debt too... and I continue to call the "Gruumsh is Talos" message BS), and Mask, who all may have a beef with Shar and/or Cyric. Hell, he may even bring back Kiaransalee, despite her having similar portfolios, as an ally against Orcus. In all of this, I assume that Velsharoon faked his own death with the Simbul, and he's been using this time to secretly garner power and hide from Shar, until he found out about Mystra's rebirth.
I'm kind of liking this idea. Maybe he found out Leira wasn't actually dead, but rather she was merely immortal and she helped him fake his own death.... and somehow the two of them were involved with the re-awakening of Mystra together. Maybe even Leira knew to fake her own death after the ToT due to a prophecy by Savras..... and she helped Savras fake HIS own death during the spellplague.... so that you could have Leira, Savras, and Velsharoon all working in the shadows to bring back Mystra and later Azuth and maybe even Auppenser. That Velsharoon later brings back a bunch of evil deities just goes to show he's not just a lackey of Mystra... he plans to gain allies for himself and expand his influence.
SPOILER ALERT
I like your ideas, but didn't Mystra come back in one of Ed's Elminster novels?
Also, one of Laduguer's portfolios was magical craft, so IMO if he and Deep Duerra come back I can see it as being because of him storing part of their divinity in a magical hammer/axe as a backup plan.
Myrkul, could either absorb Velsharoon or make him swear an oath of fealty due to their similar portfolios. Gruumsh is Talos is ridiculous. Kiaransalee was forgotten by the mind of mortals and deities including herself so unless Ao makes everyone remember her I don't really see her coming back. Shar could sponsor Velsharoon actually, since it is stated in the wiki that he has a 'flirtatious relationship with her'. I like the idea of Leira and Savras helping the other to fake their deaths as they both have dominion over a school of magic, Illusion and Divination so I can see the two working together to arrange for Azuth's return. Gargauth, as a demipower and former archdevil could find himself in the service of Asmodeus, a Greater God and I think it would be interesting for him to gain more power as a deity, and come to dwell in the Abyss, meaning that the demons and devils would each have a deity on their side, possibly reigniting the Blood War.
Mystra came back, but we truly don't know the whole backstory behind that. It very well could be that Leira, Savras, and even Velsharoon were involved with bringing her "essence" back into the world until it got absorbed by the bear that the Chosen meet. It could also be that that Mystra is not "Midnight" but rather Mystra II or the original Mystryl... as far as I know, we don't truly know yet.
Myrkul never had mastery of necromancy. Velsharoon never had mastery of death. Both can exist as their portfolios don't overlap (and truthfully, even if they did, I don't see a problem with overlapping portfolios... the idea that gods had ABSOLUTE control over their portfolio needs to go by the wayside). One doesn't have to replace the other. Also, just my two cents, Myrkul didn't WANT to return as a god, so I'd prefer he stay more usable in the Crown of Horns.
There's a lot of ways this stuff could be spun up, and some of it may not truly be comprehensible by the mortal mind. My main thing though is that your original idea of Asmodeus being in trouble by a number of gods that would hate him would work well with an idea of Velsharoon using some kind of godly necromantic ritual to bring back a lot of evil gods ... gods that might or might not appreciate him later for the doing of it (and for which other gods might be a little miffed at Mystra when they find out about it.... as they may see Velsharoon's actions as a reflection of her orders). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2014 : 04:27:14
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quote:
Originally posted by mhamza
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
I don't think Asmodeus is going anywhere. He makes for a good villainous deity and besides the Brimstone Angels novels are pretty popular and he is kind of central to their plot.
Fair enough he's an excellent villain and probably wouldn't die but what I want to see happen is him developing his rivalry with Gargauth, who probably hates him for kicking him out of the Nine Hells, culminating with Gargauth, in a bid to gain more power as a deity, since he's a demipower and Asmodeus is a Greater God becoming Lord of the Abyss and ensuring both sides have a deity which could reignite the Blood War.
On the Gargauth front here, he may even form up alliances behind the scenes with more neutral parties in the blood war that are more mercenary oriented to spark the fires of the war again (i.e. perhaps faking devil attack on demons and vice versa). In fact... given with where I was going earlier.... Leira might help disguise such acts and Mask might help foster such intrigues (in the interests of freeing Azuth... or in the case of Mask, gaining the protection of Mystra from Shar). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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mhamza
Seeker
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2014 : 12:14:18
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by sleyvas
Mystra came back, but we truly don't know the whole backstory behind that. It very well could be that Leira, Savras, and even Velsharoon were involved with bringing her "essence" back into the world until it got absorbed by the bear that the Chosen meet. It could also be that that Mystra is not "Midnight" but rather Mystra II or the original Mystryl... as far as I know, we don't truly know yet.
Myrkul never had mastery of necromancy. Velsharoon never had mastery of death. Both can exist as their portfolios don't overlap (and truthfully, even if they did, I don't see a problem with overlapping portfolios... the idea that gods had ABSOLUTE control over their portfolio needs to go by the wayside). One doesn't have to replace the other. Also, just my two cents, Myrkul didn't WANT to return as a god, so I'd prefer he stay more usable in the Crown of Horns.
There's a lot of ways this stuff could be spun up, and some of it may not truly be comprehensible by the mortal mind. My main thing though is that your original idea of Asmodeus being in trouble by a number of gods that would hate him would work well with an idea of Velsharoon using some kind of godly necromantic ritual to bring back a lot of evil gods ... gods that might or might not appreciate him later for the doing of it (and for which other gods might be a little miffed at Mystra when they find out about it.... as they may see Velsharoon's actions as a reflection of her orders).
Wait, didn't Velsharoon die because of something to do with the Seven Sisters?, if so I can't imagine Mystra being too happy with him so he might seek refuge with Myrkul who has a grudge against Mystra (time of troubles) and become an exarch in his service, allowing them to share the portfolios. |
Edited by - mhamza on 27 Jun 2014 12:14:37 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2014 : 13:34:07
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quote:
Originally posted by mhamza
quote:
[i]Originally posted by sleyvas
Mystra came back, but we truly don't know the whole backstory behind that. It very well could be that Leira, Savras, and even Velsharoon were involved with bringing her "essence" back into the world until it got absorbed by the bear that the Chosen meet. It could also be that that Mystra is not "Midnight" but rather Mystra II or the original Mystryl... as far as I know, we don't truly know yet.
Myrkul never had mastery of necromancy. Velsharoon never had mastery of death. Both can exist as their portfolios don't overlap (and truthfully, even if they did, I don't see a problem with overlapping portfolios... the idea that gods had ABSOLUTE control over their portfolio needs to go by the wayside). One doesn't have to replace the other. Also, just my two cents, Myrkul didn't WANT to return as a god, so I'd prefer he stay more usable in the Crown of Horns.
There's a lot of ways this stuff could be spun up, and some of it may not truly be comprehensible by the mortal mind. My main thing though is that your original idea of Asmodeus being in trouble by a number of gods that would hate him would work well with an idea of Velsharoon using some kind of godly necromantic ritual to bring back a lot of evil gods ... gods that might or might not appreciate him later for the doing of it (and for which other gods might be a little miffed at Mystra when they find out about it.... as they may see Velsharoon's actions as a reflection of her orders).
Wait, didn't Velsharoon die because of something to do with the Seven Sisters?, if so I can't imagine Mystra being too happy with him so he might seek refuge with Myrkul who has a grudge against Mystra (time of troubles) and become an exarch in his service, allowing them to share the portfolios.
There you go, thinking along the lines of "what is written is the exact truth". If a servant of Mystra (aka Velsharoon) wanted to fake his death, would not a servant of Mystra (even though she is dead) possibly consider helping him? If Leira were also involved with all of this, could it not be made very believable. So many things can be made better with a look to the lie. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2014 : 23:18:43
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Hmmmm, and on the idea of some gods faking their deaths. I'd wondered at one point if Leira had faked her death in order to get into Sigil on a mission for Ao. However, I'm also noting.... gods aren't allowed to go to Abeir. Could Leira, Savras, and even Velsharoon have secretly "given up" their divinity through some arcane methodology because Mystra was going to NEED something over in Abeir....
And on that note, did Leira and Savras intentionally leave Velsharoon "out of the loop" because he was a relatively new factor, and they didn't know if they could trust him. Then after the spellplague, when they saw they would need him to maybe enact these necromantic rituals to bring back some gods, they helped him fake his death so that he could act behind the scenes to get whatever he needed. Just throwing it out, seeing the response. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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mhamza
Seeker
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2014 : 14:04:34
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hmmmm, and on the idea of some gods faking their deaths. I'd wondered at one point if Leira had faked her death in order to get into Sigil on a mission for Ao. However, I'm also noting.... gods aren't allowed to go to Abeir. Could Leira, Savras, and even Velsharoon have secretly "given up" their divinity through some arcane methodology because Mystra was going to NEED something over in Abeir....
And on that note, did Leira and Savras intentionally leave Velsharoon "out of the loop" because he was a relatively new factor, and they didn't know if they could trust him. Then after the spellplague, when they saw they would need him to maybe enact these necromantic rituals to bring back some gods, they helped him fake his death so that he could act behind the scenes to get whatever he needed. Just throwing it out, seeing the response.
Interesting idea but apparently Ao himself said Leira was dead |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3805 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2014 : 14:09:00
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Ao merely is one of the illusions that Leira created to control all the gods. Every cataclysm/apocalypse/divine power shift/whatever, it was all her plan since the beginning...
Conspiracy 
Now that I think about it, that would still be better than the Ao we currently have: the 'Overgod' who let all the nonsensical disaster and destruction happen, so that he could teach the gods a lesson about good behaviour and that now is back snapping his finger for a quick fix... |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 29 Jun 2014 14:11:28 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2014 : 14:27:55
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quote:
Originally posted by mhamza
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hmmmm, and on the idea of some gods faking their deaths. I'd wondered at one point if Leira had faked her death in order to get into Sigil on a mission for Ao. However, I'm also noting.... gods aren't allowed to go to Abeir. Could Leira, Savras, and even Velsharoon have secretly "given up" their divinity through some arcane methodology because Mystra was going to NEED something over in Abeir....
And on that note, did Leira and Savras intentionally leave Velsharoon "out of the loop" because he was a relatively new factor, and they didn't know if they could trust him. Then after the spellplague, when they saw they would need him to maybe enact these necromantic rituals to bring back some gods, they helped him fake his death so that he could act behind the scenes to get whatever he needed. Just throwing it out, seeing the response.
Interesting idea but apparently Ao himself said Leira was dead
Again, see past "it was said". Ao's main purpose is to see that the gods follow their portfolios, correct. So, IF Leira faked her own death, would it not be proper for Ao to not call her out on it? After all, what are "truths" and "lies" or "good" and "evil" to a being such as Ao. He is not bound to such rigors that humanity would bind themselves in order for their society to work. He does what he does for the universe to work.... and if that means he upholds a lie put forth by the goddess of lies (especially if she's performing a service for him).... then he would do so. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2014 : 15:33:58
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I fail to see what reason Ao would have for lying about the death of a deity. Cyric and Mask say they killed her, and Ao confirmed it, also saying it was fine because it was in keeping with Cyric's portfolio.
I don't see any reason Ao would lie about that, and I don't see anything to support the notion that Leira is still around.
Honestly, I think that it's the easiest and best explanation. Any other explanation means you have to explain why Ao saw value in lying to a group that he could literally destroy on a whim, and what Leira hoped to gain by allowing everyone, including the worshippers she lost with the deception, to think she was dead. Or, alternatively, you have to explain how Leira fooled everyone, including an entity she had no power over and who could -- and had, in the past -- take away her power, and also why she was fine with losing all of the worshippers her existence was tied to.
Either way, the idea that she faked her own death has to address why she would willingly lose all her worshippers, which would lead to a death just as final as the one she suffered at Cyric's hands. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2014 : 16:36:18
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When did Ao say that? I'll go back and look but I don't recall any concrete statement that she is dead (there are numerous other threads on that topic where we argued about it some time ago). I know that in more recent editions the main sourcebook has shorted the whole might be dead maybe, possibly to is dead - but I write that up to laziness :P
Wooly - I'd say that she is not losing her worshipers - just giving the work of granting them things over to her new plaything Cyric. They are still praying to Leira, but Cyric "assumed" the portfolio as the Prince Of Lies. How poetic would it be if he proved the prince of those that are lied to :D
Also - I'd say Leira was not subservient to Mystra... unlike the other gods of magic she was her own mistress to a greater extent so the idea she sacrificed her power so Mystra could use it sits wrong with me. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2014 : 16:56:29
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It was in either Prince of Lies or Crucible that Ao point-blank said Leira was dead.
And if Leira is not granting power to her worshippers, then she's not getting power from their prayers. Therefore, she is losing the worshippers that her existence is tied to. |
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Asmodeus is in trouble....
