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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jul 2022 : 20:01:50
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Also, I wonder, what do you think about including demon species Paragon Demon Lords, like Shaktari, Shami-Amourae, Kardum etc? (Though Kardum has very little material about him, and no details on his cult, if any).
They aren't really worshipped by their non-divine counterparts (then again, a similar situation was with Kanchelsis), but Shaktari and Shami-Amourae do have non-human worshippers (Shaktari - yuan-ti and nagas; Shami-Amourae elves and half-elves - maybe it was part of the reason for her conflict with Hanali Celanil? - and halflings).
Shaktari was more developed at the tail end of 3.5E (indeed, the last Demonomicon article, in the last paper Dragon Magazine), but debuted in 2E (also in a Dungeon magazine adventure - "Nemesis" in Dungeon #60). |
Edited by - Baltas on 06 Jul 2022 20:05:31 |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2022 : 22:47:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Also, I wonder, what do you think about including demon species Paragon Demon Lords, like Shaktari, Shami-Amourae, Kardum etc? (Though Kardum has very little material about him, and no details on his cult, if any).
They aren't really worshipped by their non-divine counterparts (then again, a similar situation was with Kanchelsis), but Shaktari and Shami-Amourae do have non-human worshippers (Shaktari - yuan-ti and nagas; Shami-Amourae elves and half-elves - maybe it was part of the reason for her conflict with Hanali Celanil? - and halflings).
Shaktari was more developed at the tail end of 3.5E (indeed, the last Demonomicon article, in the last paper Dragon Magazine), but debuted in 2E (also in a Dungeon magazine adventure - "Nemesis" in Dungeon #60).
Shami-Amourae is high on my list of possibilities, since she is presented as a demigoddess in the Dungeon magazine compilation published fairly late in 2e (that republished the adventure she appeared in); pretty sure 3e usurped her role and gave it to another fiend that hadn't been published before (so far as I could tell) so it will likely not match the latest lore. I will have to look at Shaktari again, and I know nothing about Kardum. There's a few others from 2e that seem like prime possibilities for write-ups.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2022 : 01:03:57
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I wrote up Shami-Amoura in Dungeon #148 as part of the Savage Tide adventure path.
There’s also an FR Easter egg or two.
Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2022 : 06:52:47
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
Shami-Amourae is high on my list of possibilities, since she is presented as a demigoddess in the Dungeon magazine compilation published fairly late in 2e (that republished the adventure she appeared in); pretty sure 3e usurped her role and gave it to another fiend that hadn't been published before (so far as I could tell) so it will likely not match the latest lore. I will have to look at Shaktari again, and I know nothing about Kardum. There's a few others from 2e that seem like prime possibilities for write-ups.
Jeff
Awesome. With Shami-Amourae she indeed was indeed replaced by Malcanthet, even in an in-universe event in the past (As detailed in Fiendish Codex I:: Hordes of the Abyss, Dragon #353 (Demonomicon of Demonomicon of Iggwilv article about Malcanthet and in most detail in Dungeon #148 by Eric, as mentioned by him). They are even similar, outside of being the Queens of Succubi, by both being lovers/consorts of Demogorgon (with maybe parts of lore of Malcanthet being possible to re-purpose for Shami-Amourae, though you might want to make them more different instead.)
3E also did retcon a bit Shami-Amourae's origin, that she was born from the first mortals lust, rather than soul of one ofthe first morals, along with other primordial succubi, her "sisters" the mentioned Malcanthet, 2E's Lynkhab, and Xinivrae (also a 3E creation), and others that did not survive (though you could say it's a metaphor, and they were born from lustful and/or hedonistic souls).
Curiously Shami-Amourae did appear in 5E, if as a Vestige and one of the Dark Powers of Ravenloft, though I'm not sure if you would like it, or use it.
Kardum, the Lord of Balors is also kinda a 3rd edition invention - kinda as he is inspired by Marduk, king of fire demons (Kardum is even an anagram of Marduk) from Gord the Rogue novels by Gary Gygax, and one of the Six Monarchs of Demonium/Demondum, most powerful active demon lords (along wih Demogorgon, Orcus, Zuggtmoy, Graz'zt and Lolth):
https://greyhawkonline.com/gordmain/outer/
Though I doubt you would would make him this important and as I mentioned, Kardum doesn't have a detaled cult, making me think he doesn't have a high possibility of getting his own entry (though maybe mentioned elsewere). |
Edited by - Baltas on 07 Jul 2022 07:28:35 |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2022 : 07:31:47
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On your entry for Ramenos you say the Coatl scoff at the idea of Ramenos being related to the adjacent Sleepy Snake god of the Yuan-Ti Merrshaulk- putting doubt on theories that Ramenos can be connected with direct relation to the World Serpent. When I first read of this connection I was stunned to think that the Batrachi could have in a way praised the same world serpent as the Sarrukh and thus truly fit to continue the Baet'ith study and expansion of the Skins of the World Serpent- like the connection was poised to be plausible. I went to check for what you had to say on Ramenos and you say this about the Coatl. Not putting it past the Coatl to sow doubt about the validity of their enemies, but could you share where you sourced this from? Is it just your DM opinion? I want to get my hand on Planes of Chaos (I might have it somewhere) to see more for myself.
My party in Faerun is in a dungeon that has some Sarrukh writings in it, and has a Slaad for a boss fight at the top- so I want to be able to squeeze these post-transformation Batrachi for all they are worth, haha. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2022 : 06:32:29
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quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
On your entry for Ramenos you say the Coatl scoff at the idea of Ramenos being related to the adjacent Sleepy Snake god of the Yuan-Ti Merrshaulk- putting doubt on theories that Ramenos can be connected with direct relation to the World Serpent. When I first read of this connection I was stunned to think that the Batrachi could have in a way praised the same world serpent as the Sarrukh and thus truly fit to continue the Baet'ith study and expansion of the Skins of the World Serpent- like the connection was poised to be plausible. I went to check for what you had to say on Ramenos and you say this about the Coatl. Not putting it past the Coatl to sow doubt about the validity of their enemies, but could you share where you sourced this from? Is it just your DM opinion? I want to get my hand on Planes of Chaos (I might have it somewhere) to see more for myself.
Oh, it isn't from anything, I made it up. There's no connection between the deities in 2nd edition, and I like the idea that no one can truly know such things, so some people will say one thing, and others will scoff at that being ridiculous. :)
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2022 : 06:36:29
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Olhydra the Princess of Evil Water: https://bit.ly/3cSv2ZN
Another of the Archomentals, Olhydra is the Archomental of Evil Water. She is possibly the closest of all of the archomentals to becoming a true deity, given her diverse array of worshipers. However, she is still not yet a true power, and thus cannot grant spells above 3rd level at this point as with the other archomentals.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2022 : 11:08:13
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Found two more obscure deities: Hurfurbian Mirrorbones, son of Garl Glittergold, and his cousin Elbow-Wick. See Dragon #291, page 40.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2022 : 15:34:17
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Interesting article on Olhydra. I though you might write Olhydra to have some Kuo-Toa worshippers, lured away from her possible sister, and/or due to her alliance with Dagon (and reference to not only Lovecraft, but also that Kuo-Toa being seemingly depicted as worshipping her in Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal).
Though the strong alliance between Dagon and Olhydra, was only detailed/though up in 3E (if up to them having two daughters), so I guess ths the reason you didn't use that.
Among though entities connected to Olhydra, there is an interesting "trio" of Sea Hags serving Olhydra - the Blue Coven. They started out as 3 sea hags that summoned and tried to control Olhydra, but were overpowered by her. Olhydra was though impressed by their ambition, and allowed them to live, as her worshipers, overtime becoming her proxy. Singular proxy, as in time, probably due to Olydra's influence, the three sea hags minds merged, and they are now one being with 3 bodies, and aparenly one of the most powerful hags in the multiverse. This also caused Cegilune to resent Olhydra and the Blue Coven over this. (From 2E Planescape sourcebook "The Inner Planes"). |
Edited by - Baltas on 02 Aug 2022 19:13:15 |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2022 : 20:46:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Interesting article on Olhydra. I though you might write Olhydra to have some Kuo-Toa worshippers, lured away from her possible sister, and/or due to her alliance with Dagon (and reference to not only Lovecraft, but also that Kuo-Toa being seemingly depicted as worshipping her in Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal).
Though the strong alliance between Dagon and Olhydra, was only detailed/though up in 3E (if up to them having two daughters), so I guess ths the reason you didn't use that.
Among though entities connected to Olhydra, there is an interesting "trio" of Sea Hags serving Olhydra - the Blue Coven. They started out as 3 sea hags that summoned and tried to control Olhydra, but were overpowered by her. Olhydra was though impressed by their ambition, and allowed them to live, as her worshipers, overtime becoming her proxy. Singular proxy, as in time, probably due to Olydra's influence, the three sea hags minds merged, and they are now one being with 3 bodies, and aparenly one of the most powerful hags in the multiverse. This also caused Cegilune to resent Olhydra and the Blue Coven over this. (From 2E Planescape sourcebook "The Inner Planes").
I don't think Kuo-Toa would *particularly* worship her, over any other race, really. She seems to have a particular base among sahuagin in the 2e material. Some definitely would, though, but they would be exiles or do it in secret. I can't imagine the priests of Blibdoolpoolp would allow worship to persist openly.
I was not a big fan of a LOT of things in the Baldur's Gate games. :)
As to Cegilune, Olhydra doesn't care about her. The reverse may not be true... ;)
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2022 : 01:54:41
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Keptolo the Eager Consort: https://bit.ly/3KDxMXE
Originally published in Dragon Magazine #298 for 3rd Edition, Keptolo offered a nice alternative to Vhaeraun and Selvetarm for male drow living within the matriarchal societies of Lolth-worshipping drow, and had some connections with another deity I plan to work on Zinzerena. Further, he had no strong connections or contradictions with other material, so he was a great candidate for writing up as a 2nd Editions deity. Enjoy!
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2022 : 12:21:42
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Found two more obscure deities: Hurfurbian Mirrorbones, son of Garl Glittergold, and his cousin Elbow-Wick. See Dragon #291, page 40.
--Eric
Thanks, I'll take a look at those! :D
Jeff
George did a nice job for once writing up Elbow-Wick. You should bug him to share. |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2022 : 13:59:13
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
Keptolo the Eager Consort: https://bit.ly/3KDxMXE
Originally published in Dragon Magazine #298 for 3rd Edition, Keptolo offered a nice alternative to Vhaeraun and Selvetarm for male drow living within the matriarchal societies of Lolth-worshipping drow, and had some connections with another deity I plan to work on Zinzerena. Further, he had no strong connections or contradictions with other material, so he was a great candidate for writing up as a 2nd Editions deity. Enjoy!
Jeff
Adds a whole new nuance when someone calls a drow male a Kept' male
I had never really noticed this deity... and I must say I like the idea of him as a drow deity focused on their society and less of being "an adventurer". I know you're writing this up in reference to second edition. With that in mind, what do you think of him sponsoring some bard colleges. Also, just to throw out an unusual idea... just as there are often stories of women bellydancers and the like entertaining men of power... what if he has some spellcasters that practice a form of dance magic (I know there was some rules for such in 2nd edition, but they elude me a the moment... maybe a dragon article?). Also, maybe he also sponsors something along the line of a culinary school for drow male chefs (picturing Hell's Kitchen with Gordon Ramsay in the Underdark).
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2022 : 20:04:09
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Adds a whole new nuance when someone calls a drow male a Kept' male
I had never really noticed this deity... and I must say I like the idea of him as a drow deity focused on their society and less of being "an adventurer". I know you're writing this up in reference to second edition. With that in mind, what do you think of him sponsoring some bard colleges. Also, just to throw out an unusual idea... just as there are often stories of women bellydancers and the like entertaining men of power... what if he has some spellcasters that practice a form of dance magic (I know there was some rules for such in 2nd edition, but they elude me a the moment... maybe a dragon article?). Also, maybe he also sponsors something along the line of a culinary school for drow male chefs (picturing Hell's Kitchen with Gordon Ramsay in the Underdark).
Well, in 2e, Drow can't be bards, so that would be a slight barrier there. ;)
His faith might sponsor similar things that couple entertainment with subterfuge though. I can't recall anything specific about *dance* magic, although there is the Spellsinger in Wizards and Rogues of the Realms.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2022 : 08:31:07
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
Well, in 2e, Drow can't be bards, so that would be a slight barrier there. ;)
ALL Drow or...?
The reason I ask is because the outlier Drow goddess (i.e., Eilistraee) is fond of music and dance; you'd think her followers - at the minimum - would pursue the calling of the Bard. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2022 : 16:12:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
Well, in 2e, Drow can't be bards, so that would be a slight barrier there. ;)
ALL Drow or...?
The reason I ask is because the outlier Drow goddess (i.e., Eilistraee) is fond of music and dance; you'd think her followers - at the minimum - would pursue the calling of the Bard.
All elves, yes, which includes drow. Half-elves can be bards though. But loving music and dance doesn't automatically mean bard. Anyone can love music and dance. Bard in 2e at least was much more than just someone who loved music and dance; they also loved stories and wandering and being more than a little roguish while dabbling in magic. Elves who get interested in magic weren't seen as "dabbling."
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2022 : 20:27:54
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Kanchelsis the Lord of Vampires: https://bit.ly/3fs3n37
Just in time for the Halloween season comes the Lord of Vampires, Kanchelsis! He is a dual-natured deity, both a sophisticated, high-society bon vivant and a wild creature of brutal hunts and violence. This duality is the same as that held by vampires within mortal, living society.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2022 : 11:35:20
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| Does a deity's power level (i.e., being of Demipower/Lesser/Intermediate/Greater status) influence whether their Specialty Priests are able to turn/command undead? |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2022 : 12:47:15
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Not particularly. Just looking at Jergal's P&P entry, his SP can either command or turn undead depending on their alignment; Lurue's can't; Savras's SP can turn but not command; Velsharoon's can command but not turn.
It's a case by case basis. |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2022 : 19:58:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Does a deity's power level (i.e., being of Demipower/Lesser/Intermediate/Greater status) influence whether their Specialty Priests are able to turn/command undead?
Nope, not at all. It's more based on what the deity's ethos is towards undead. :)
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2022 : 22:33:52
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quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Does a deity's power level (i.e., being of Demipower/Lesser/Intermediate/Greater status) influence whether their Specialty Priests are able to turn/command undead?
Nope, not at all. It's more based on what the deity's ethos is towards undead. :)
Jeff
Indeed. Look at Lathander -- his specialty priests are particularly effective at turning undead. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2022 : 23:45:31
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Below are Specialty Priests of three tightly related goddesses and their ability to turn the undead.
Heartwarders of Sune (Greater) can turn undead just fine.
Goldhearts of Hanali Celanil (Intermediate) can turn undead, but at a lower level compared to other priests.
Sensates of Sharess (Demipower) cannot turn undead.
Is this a coincidence? |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2022 : 23:56:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Below are Specialty Priests of three tightly related goddesses and their ability to turn the undead.
Heartwarders of Sune (Greater) can turn undead just fine.
Goldhearts of Hanali Celanil (Intermediate) can turn undead, but at a lower level compared to other priests.
Sensates of Sharess (Demipower) cannot turn undead.
Is this a coincidence?
Yeah. Sune is a more "generalist" power than Hanali, and the latter is more about love and relationships (which some undead are related to), while Sune is more concerned with physical beauty, which undead are usually anathema to. Sharess is all about sensation, so really doesn't have much to do with undead.
To be fair, sometimes it's just down to how any given author feels about granting that power, and whether they feel the specialty priest already has enough powers or needs another boost.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2022 : 00:16:22
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To be fair, Sune probably thinks that undead 'love' is a horrific mockery of the real deal. There's a deity in 3.5 Libris Mortis called Evening Glory, goddess of love after death, and Sune would absolutely despise her despite EG not being evil.
And, to be fair, given that undead love is essentially one step removed from necrophilia, Sune isn't exactly wrong. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2022 : 04:47:50
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| Sune is all about beauty, too, and undead are generally not known for their good looks. (unless they're glittery vampires) |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 20 Oct 2022 04:48:16 |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2022 : 03:58:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Indeed. Look at Lathander -- his specialty priests are particularly effective at turning undead.
These days, I think that the benefits offered by the 2e Morninglord are slightly lacking. I would double (and later triple) the range, area and duration of their light spells and perhaps make that particular stripe of magic more difficult to dispel. Furthermore, I would give them a generic +2 to Turn Undead while retaining the core +4 against light-fearing undead.
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
Sharess is all about sensation, so really doesn't have much to do with undead.
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
And, to be fair, given that undead love is essentially one step removed from necrophilia, Sune isn't exactly wrong.
There's a case to be made that her pursuits are diametrically opposed to the undead; mindless undead don't care one way or the other about feeling, sure, but, when it comes to sentient/sapient undead...
...they tend to feel or be as cold as the grave (if not altogether numb).
...they lack mortal sensations and their derivative pleasures.
...they are driven by utterly insatiable hungers that may be painful or "simply" maddening.
...they can possibly temporarily feel satisfaction by feeding on blood, life force or emotions, but this requires hurting (perhaps even killing) a living being in what is - rare exceptions aside* - a most assuredly non-consensual act.
...they hate the living because they live.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Sune is all about beauty, too, and undead are generally not known for their good looks. (unless they're glittery vampires)
* Though, come to think of it, D&D's vampires aren't sexual beings as they are in other IPs. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2022 : 14:35:35
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D&D vampires still tend to be rather attractive. Artwork of Shyressa shows someone who takes fashion cues from Frank Frazetta's work, Strahd is a silver fox, etc.
Ironically, Dracula himself is a rape analogy, and everyone he comes into contact with despises him. His brides are gorgeous right until they reveal that they eat babies. |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
572 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2022 : 00:02:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
There's a case to be made that her pursuits are diametrically opposed to the undead; mindless undead don't care one way or the other about feeling, sure, but, when it comes to sentient/sapient undead...
...they tend to feel or be as cold as the grave (if not altogether numb).
...they lack mortal sensations and their derivative pleasures.
...they are driven by utterly insatiable hungers that may be painful or "simply" maddening.
...they can possibly temporarily feel satisfaction by feeding on blood, life force or emotions, but this requires hurting (perhaps even killing) a living being in what is - rare exceptions aside* - a most assuredly non-consensual act.
...they hate the living because they live.
This is why I said it's sometimes down to author interpretation. Other than a handful of specific deities, you can basically make an argument for any deity to have power over undead, or not to.
For example:
Undead feel like death, not life, so perhaps Sharess has no control over them.
Undead lack mortal sensations so perhaps Sharess has no power over them.
Sharess embraces experiencing and enjoying sensations, having an instinctual need to sate feelings is beyond her control, perhaps.
Other than deities like Myrkul, Lathander, Jergal, etc., it's really easy to make some argument for or against them having power over undead for their specialty priests. Clerics always do.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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[2e] Monster Mythology Update Project
