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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1495 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2022 :  03:53:52  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
SPriests are perhaps more in-tune with their gods than normal clerics, so while this manifests in a variety of boons not normally allowed to standard priests, the trade-off is that their god-granted connection to negative and positive energy is altered by the direct infusion of divine power.
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Azar
Master of Realmslore

1302 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2022 :  13:06:52  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

Other than deities like Myrkul, Lathander, Jergal, etc., it's really easy to make some argument for or against them having power over undead for their specialty priests. Clerics always do.

Jeff



If a god rises in rank (say, from Demipower to Lesser), could that be a reasonable justification for their Specialty Priests to suddenly gain the ability to Turn Undead?

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.

Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think.
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
551 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2022 :  17:06:17  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Azar

If a god rises in rank (say, from Demipower to Lesser), could that be a reasonable justification for their Specialty Priests to suddenly gain the ability to Turn Undead?



I wouldn't, no. It would take a change in the god's attitude or portfolio. Power level changes have more to to with high-level powers for specialty priests. Dropping in status might mean that power granted at 15th level is no longer granted, or rising in power might suddenly grant a new power at that level. Turning is usually an all-or-nothing type affair, rather than something granted upon reaching a certain level.

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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Azar
Master of Realmslore

1302 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2022 :  22:37:32  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

quote:
Originally posted by Azar

If a god rises in rank (say, from Demipower to Lesser), could that be a reasonable justification for their Specialty Priests to suddenly gain the ability to Turn Undead?



I wouldn't, no. It would take a change in the god's attitude or portfolio. Power level changes have more to to with high-level powers for specialty priests. Dropping in status might mean that power granted at 15th level is no longer granted, or rising in power might suddenly grant a new power at that level. Turning is usually an all-or-nothing type affair, rather than something granted upon reaching a certain level.

Jeff



Ah ha. So, for instance, if Sharess - for whatever plot-dictated reason - decides to take a more proactive stance against the undead because they represent a threat to the (benign) exploration of sensation that makes life worthwhile, then that might spur such a development?

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.

Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think.
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1495 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2022 :  23:14:26  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes.
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
551 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2022 :  18:29:09  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yan-C-Bin, the Prince of Evil Air: https://bit.ly/3WmIjfC

The third of the evil archomentals, Yan-C-Bin is a subtle and hidden creature. He wages an endless cold war with his rival, Chan, while also wandering, gathering information, and using the destructive power of air on various planes. It is said that one day he and Chan will meet, and only one will survive the encounter.

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36782 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2022 :  03:36:57  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

Yan-C-Bin, the Prince of Evil Air: https://bit.ly/3WmIjfC

The third of the evil archomentals, Yan-C-Bin is a subtle and hidden creature. He wages an endless cold war with his rival, Chan, while also wandering, gathering information, and using the destructive power of air on various planes. It is said that one day he and Chan will meet, and only one will survive the encounter.

Jeff



I've always wondered two things about Yan-C-Bin: how do you pronounce his name? and how can air (or any of the other prime elements) be evil?

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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
551 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2022 :  03:54:14  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I've always wondered two things about Yan-C-Bin: how do you pronounce his name? and how can air (or any of the other prime elements) be evil?



I went with the obvious "Yan See Bin" for the pronunciation; I don't know of another one. As to air, it can destroy just as much as other elements, so that would be the way it can be evil. My interpretation is that the evil archomentals promote using their elements in harmful ways, and the good archomentals promote using their elements in beneficial ways.

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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Azar
Master of Realmslore

1302 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2022 :  04:00:36  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wonder how Yan-C-Bin worship flourishes in The Realms when Akadi is the top tempest.

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.

Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think.
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
551 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2022 :  04:20:23  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Azar

I wonder how Yan-C-Bin worship flourishes in The Realms when Akadi is the top tempest.



I don't think it would. It would mostly be limited to weak shamans of evil avian races in remote areas and small cults in urban/semi-urban areas that want to gain power from him, IMO. Yan-C-Bin is a very minor player everywhere except the Plane of Air.

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11724 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2022 :  16:23:57  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

quote:
Originally posted by Azar

I wonder how Yan-C-Bin worship flourishes in The Realms when Akadi is the top tempest.



I don't think it would. It would mostly be limited to weak shamans of evil avian races in remote areas and small cults in urban/semi-urban areas that want to gain power from him, IMO. Yan-C-Bin is a very minor player everywhere except the Plane of Air.

Jeff



I would add to this that Yan-C-Bin might be very active in OTHER planets of realmspace. For instance, amongst the aarakocra / birdfolk of Coliar there might be a very moody group who wants to oppose the lizard folk and use the power of air to destroy them. Since the two worlds are so disconnected, the idea that the gods of the Faerunian, Mulhorandi, Untheric, Maztican, etc... pantheons would impact them can go right out the window.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
551 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2022 :  19:22:52  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

I would add to this that Yan-C-Bin might be very active in OTHER planets of realmspace. For instance, amongst the aarakocra / birdfolk of Coliar there might be a very moody group who wants to oppose the lizard folk and use the power of air to destroy them. Since the two worlds are so disconnected, the idea that the gods of the Faerunian, Mulhorandi, Untheric, Maztican, etc... pantheons would impact them can go right out the window.



He might be, yeah, but it would still be a drop in the bucket. He should be extremely minor, at least for now.

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
551 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2022 :  19:33:36  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tarsellis Meunniduin the Lord of the Mountains: https://bit.ly/3gWWkR0

Patron of the snow elves, Tarsellis Meunniduin is the Seldarine deity of mountains and high-altitude wilderness. Like the Snow Elves themselves, he has isolated himself from the Seldarine due to disputes and a general preference for being alone.

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11724 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2022 :  23:44:15  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

Tarsellis Meunniduin the Lord of the Mountains: https://bit.ly/3gWWkR0

Patron of the snow elves, Tarsellis Meunniduin is the Seldarine deity of mountains and high-altitude wilderness. Like the Snow Elves themselves, he has isolated himself from the Seldarine due to disputes and a general preference for being alone.

Jeff




Nice. I don't recall if the Megwandir as QoA&D was in anything official, but I know I had made that as a possible connection with the whole Auril = Aurilandur the Frost Sprite Queen = an aspect of QoA&D

SIDENOTE: I used this god with a slight misspelling of his name as part of my metahel pantheon on DM's Guild (which was a pantheon that I mixed Norse and Faerunian lore with a twist). His name became "Faersellis Meunnindun" and I was implying that he was essentially Munin the raven, and with the death of Asagrimmr/Odin he no longer served the norse gods. I had never really noted that he was already in Ysgard until I read your version and realized how well what I did really fit.



Yuellar is known for his superb hunting and tracking skills, skill
with a bow, as well as his amazing balance and athletic prowess in sports. Its said that he learned these hunting skills from his fellow faernir, Faernmarel Mystarane and Faersellis Meunnindun, who no longer associate with the asagrimm after the fall of Asagrimmr. Its said that these who Faernir once served Asagrimmr directly, with Faernmarel
serving him by taking the form of a wolf, and Faersellis watching the world in the form of a raven. Exactly why these servants of Asagrimmr have left is unknown, but some say they were led astray by a false goddess. Others say that their compact of loyalty died with Asagrimmr.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
551 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2022 :  00:28:58  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Nice. I don't recall if the Megwandir as QoA&D was in anything official, but I know I had made that as a possible connection with the whole Auril = Aurilandur the Frost Sprite Queen = an aspect of QoA&D


That's my creation. I just like to have different possible mythologies when I can so there's more variety and everything isn't quite so obviously true. That said, I don't like the association of Auril and the Queen of Air and Darkness. They don't seem to have any connection or similarity besides opposition to goodly elven/faerie creatures and the late introduction of evil fae = winter. With Frost Sprites being Neutral Good, it seems like it makes such a connection muddier. I prefer the Unseelie court having a character of corruption, rather than one of winter.

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11724 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2022 :  21:07:11  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Nice. I don't recall if the Megwandir as QoA&D was in anything official, but I know I had made that as a possible connection with the whole Auril = Aurilandur the Frost Sprite Queen = an aspect of QoA&D


That's my creation. I just like to have different possible mythologies when I can so there's more variety and everything isn't quite so obviously true. That said, I don't like the association of Auril and the Queen of Air and Darkness. They don't seem to have any connection or similarity besides opposition to goodly elven/faerie creatures and the late introduction of evil fae = winter. With Frost Sprites being Neutral Good, it seems like it makes such a connection muddier. I prefer the Unseelie court having a character of corruption, rather than one of winter.

Jeff



Ed came back and implied that the QoA&D thing was because Auril was temporarily not in control of herself.... if I recall correctly... which I am very much fine with because I prefer Markustay's idea for the QoA&D being that she's kind of like Sauron with his rings and that many deities may have been tricked into accepting powerful magic that gave the QoA&D the ability to manipulate them (Markustay took to a concept that there is the Regalia of Winter that are artifacts of power with ties to the QoA&D ... and the ring of winter might be one of these).

On frost sprites, I don't believe I ever actually found them listed officially in any 1e, 2e or even 3e product... which I found odd, but
if you did find them I'd be interested to know the resource. Then again you may be thinking about what I'm about to say. I did find frosts (who are often called snow fairies, snow sprites, or winter folk) in the 2e monstrous compendium FR appendix I. Nothing specifically referred to as frost sprites, but I figured this must be what they meant. For 5e, I actually created a player race based on the frosts kinda, but more of a typical sprite look with a more "tinkerbell" type look. I put them in my "Races of the Adusgi Forest and Surrounding Environs" up on DM's Guild which is for use over in Anchorome. When I did, I added a statement that basically frost sprites CHOOSE their subrace based on their alignment on the good/evil axis (as in their alignment has an actual physical affect on them). So, a frost sprite may grow up in a good or evil community of its kind and find itself an outcast if it develops an alignment opposed to its community.


When they are born, all frost sprites are the same, and they possess only the traits of their base race. Like elves, they are a particularly long lived race, but unlike elves, this period of youth is extremely short compared to the length of their lives. In fact, it would be considered short even for humans. However, this is only their physical maturity, when their body ceases growing. Emotionally, they are still growing. Upon reaching physical maturity, frost sprites are driven to embrace either good or evil. They leave to the wilderness where they can meditate upon the spirits, whereupon they change into their chosen subrace based upon their alignment chosen. If their alignment matches the community in which they were raised, they return home. If its different, they find themselves outcast and leave to seek others of their own kind. Some believe these outcasts are guided by the spirits of their ancestors to find frost sprites of a similar outlook as their own.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
551 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2022 :  22:32:11  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

On frost sprites, I don't believe I ever actually found them listed officially in any 1e, 2e or even 3e product... which I found odd, but
if you did find them I'd be interested to know the resource. Then again you may be thinking about what I'm about to say. I did find frosts (who are often called snow fairies, snow sprites, or winter folk) in the 2e monstrous compendium FR appendix I. Nothing specifically referred to as frost sprites, but I figured this must be what they meant. For 5e, I actually created a player race based on the frosts kinda, but more of a typical sprite look with a more "tinkerbell" type look. I put them in my "Races of the Adusgi Forest and Surrounding Environs" up on DM's Guild which is for use over in Anchorome. When I did, I added a statement that basically frost sprites CHOOSE their subrace based on their alignment on the good/evil axis (as in their alignment has an actual physical affect on them). So, a frost sprite may grow up in a good or evil community of its kind and find itself an outcast if it develops an alignment opposed to its community.


Yeah, I consider Frosts to be the same as Frost Sprites. It seems strange to have two creatures, one of which is known alternately as "Frosts/Snow Sprites/Snow Fairies/Winter Folk" and the other as "Frost Sprites." The author who created them made a number of other errors in the article in Dragon #236 that could have been corrected by having source material in front of them (spelling errors and such), so that's what I chalk it up to.

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
551 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2023 :  05:02:22  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ogremoch, the Prince of Evil Earth: http://bit.ly/3vyfL6G

The next of the Princes of Elemental Evil is Ogremoch. The least subtle of all of the archomentals, the Stone Tyrant seeks to inspire and create a great juggernaut of evil who will spread destruction throughout his home plane and many others, although as yet none of his attempts have met with his own satisfaction.

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
551 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2023 :  06:19:02  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Shami-Amourae, the Demon Princess of Eros: https://bit.ly/3DuJl14

Just in time for Valentine’s Day comes Shami-Amourae, the Demon Princess of Eros and the Lady of Delights! Originally appearing in Dungeon #5 and updated to 2nd Edition with the Dungeon anthology The Road to Danger, Shami-Amourae is much like the succubi she claims dominion over. In 3rd Edition she was supplanted by another tanar’ri, but that figure does not appear in any 2nd Edition sources that I could find, so I stuck with the Lady of Delights as described in the above two products.

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
2067 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2023 :  17:49:48  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Really hurt you didn't like my write-up in Dungeon #148. :-(

--Eric

<joking>

quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

Shami-Amourae, the Demon Princess of Eros: https://bit.ly/3DuJl14

Just in time for Valentine’s Day comes Shami-Amourae, the Demon Princess of Eros and the Lady of Delights! Originally appearing in Dungeon #5 and updated to 2nd Edition with the Dungeon anthology The Road to Danger, Shami-Amourae is much like the succubi she claims dominion over. In 3rd Edition she was supplanted by another tanar’ri, but that figure does not appear in any 2nd Edition sources that I could find, so I stuck with the Lady of Delights as described in the above two products.

Jeff


--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
551 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2023 :  21:05:33  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Really hurt you didn't like my write-up in Dungeon #148. :-(

--Eric

<joking>



quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Really hurt you didn't like my write-up in Dungeon #148. :-(

--Eric

<joking>





In all seriousness, it's great, it just conflicts with the material in Dungeon #5/Road to Danger. :)

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
955 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2023 :  21:07:47  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great articles!

Kanchelsis is a great addition. Is Lolth being possibly connected to his creation, inspired by Drow Vampire 2E lore suggesting Lolth is the source of (their strain of?) vampirism, or connection of Vlad Tolenkov to both?

The connection/romance with Eshebala, and them representing a male and female personification of the dark side of elven nature, is very interesting, and fitting new lore for them.

With Entemoch or Sunnis, fans for years wondered if they are the same enity or two separate ones. It's possible for them to be one - Near-Powers were known to have aspects (if not in the 3E meanig)/forms, for example Verin with his aspect as Ztefano. Also curiosly, Grumbar, Ogremoch's and Entemoch's possible father, has a female aspect on Toril - Etugen.
If separate, I wonder if they are one related. Lovers or some other form of partnership? Maybe one is the the child of the other? If Sunnis is Entemoch's mother with Grumbar, she could also be the mother of Ogremoch, who moved to an opposite alignement to his mother (possibly influenced by the Elder Elemental God?).
With Unguliustûk - great find of this obscure Archomental. I think (when not considered as an alias of Ogremoch), he could be the previous Archomental of Evil Earth, deposed by Ogremoch.

With Megwandir, it's fascinating that she could be either Lolth or the Queen of Air and Darkness. But she might had been both, in context of some obscure lore.

You see, after I asked Brian R. James on the details of what is the real relationship between Auril and the Queen of Air and Darkness, he explained:

quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James

Baltas asks a great question about the true nature of Auril, the Frostmaiden. During my time as a Forgotten Realms designer I attempted to weave plot threads into lore that would be slowly revealed over time. The redemption of Auril was one such thread. Sadly, WotC moved in a different direction and I was unable to deliver the full story as I had envisioned. The short version is this:

For the first time in several millennia Auril is now free from the corrupting influence of the Queen of Air and Darkness. The two were once separate entities, then conjoined as one, and are now separate again. After regaining her freedom and true identity following the events of the Stormstar Requiem, Aurilandür is now aligned with Silvanus who is aiding the Frostmaiden in repairing her relationship with the Seelie Court of Stars.

Clearly, WotC is moving forward with Auril being evil, as shown in the previews for the upcoming adventure Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden. In my view, the antagonist of that adventure is in fact the Queen of Air and Darkness, now falsely masquerading as Auril while seeking a new host to corrupt with the Black Diamond.



quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James

quote:
Queen of Air and Darkness

The oldest myths and legends tell of a race of vile entities that once presided over the remains of a dying universe. These immortal beings of evil incarnate had drained their realm of all life and power. So it was that in the last age of their race, these entities breached the barrier between their realm and ours, pushing shards of unspeakable evil through the fissure between realities. With the power of the shards, they hoped to corrupt the most powerful beings of our cosmos into enacting their vile schemes.

Eons passed as the scions of elemental evil slowly succumbed to oblivion. When only a handful of their kind remained, the plan they had enacted so long ago finally came to fruition. A divinity from our realm, capricious and curious to a fault, found and took hold of the shard of evil. To the archfey Aurilandür, the shard appeared as a black ten-faceted jewel, looming entropy reflected in its soulless gloaming.

This unwise act opened the archfey’s thoughts and essence to the vile entities trapped in their collapsing universe. The link from the Black Diamond corrupted the fey goddess in an instant, transforming the once cheerful and benevolent Frost Sprite Queen into a cold and hateful husk of her former self. Wretched beyond any hope of her own physical death, Aurilandür retreated into the dark subconscious of the entity that had subsumed her—the Queen of Air and Darkness.
—Demonomicon of Iggwilv





It also neatly combines with a bit of Crinti folklore (documented in tomes found in libraries of Halruaa), about a Dark Elf/Ilythiiri wzard, corrupted by Unseelie, who became Known as the "Spider Queen".
To stop her, Lolth absorbed her, it altering her, and to be the source of her Queen of Spiders title.
(from Elaine Cunningham 2000 novel “The Magehound”.)

This legend seems to not be 100% true, but it's possible Lolth, or perhaps even Araushnee (the origin of the story being earlier in time), absorbed a Fey Dark Elf (possessed by the Black Diamond/The Queen of Air and Darkness), and this was in part at least the cause for her evil (if she avoided being subsumed The Queen of Air and Darkness).
My theory is also based on the fact, in Elaine Cunningham "Evermeet: Island of Elves", Araushnee becomes a Spider Demon right before she is banished to the Abyss, suggesting to me this legend's origin had to take place before elves came to Toril, and before Araushnee was banished.

Hence it's possible if this would be this scenario, Megwandir was Araushnee merged with the Queen of Air and Darkness. After, or rather during this, the Black Diamond/The Queen of Air and Darkness left Araushnee, and corrupted/merged Aurilandür (this possibly being a plan of both the Queen of Air and Darkness and Araushnee).
Or that's my idea, and it's 4th edition influenced, so I’m not sure how much you would like it.

With Shami-Amourae, it's great to see the OG Succubus Queen to getting more attention.
I like how the 6 Succubi from her retinue, are named after various succubi, or similar entities from reall life folklore, except Phryne, who is named after a famous Greek courtesan.

With reall life inspiration, I wondered if the "Shami" part of Shami-Amourae name isn't derived either from Samael (sometimes spelled Samil or Shemal, and who is either Lilith's partner, or even her male aspect, as decribed in the 12th century Treatise on the Left Emanation, and latter Zohar), or Samyaza (possible spellings include "Samiaza(z)", or "Shamazya"), both connected to lust in folklore.
If Shami-Amourae has a quite a different origin to them (especially in 1e and 2e), more similar to Lilith's from Alphabet of Ben Sira (and later sources inspiired y it), or Zohra/Zahra/Istahar from Jewish and Arabic stories about Samyaza. It would be a distorted/corrupted spelling, but so is "Amourae" - being a corruption of of "Amor" (the deity's name) or "amour".

With her preference for human, elven or half-elven worshippers and sacrifices (as mentioned in lore since 1e in general), I wondered if in life she was a member of these races, or of a similar race.
(Elves had a "spirit" that reincarnated in 1E, but I think if the spirit advanced from larvae to succubus, I think it would stop/derail the process).

Kanchelsis' and her's antagonism has sense, seeing the set-up. I'm personaly though a bit disapointed Greater Vampires (spawned by succubi), were not touched uppon (and how it plays into the two's antagonism), though I guess them not being mentioned since 1E's Lords of Darkness, might be part of the reason.

With Malcanthet, she is indeed a 3E creation (described as such in her
Demonomicon of Iggwilv article). She was created by Robert J. Kunzt for the adventure "Maure Castle" in Dungeon #112. James Jacobs in the same article suggested he wonders if Malcanthet is not perhaps in part or subconsciously inspired by Shami-Amourae and Lynkhab:
quote:
Of course, the actual concept of a "queen of the succubi" is hardly new to D&D. Back in DUNGEON #5, Robert Kelk's adventure "The Stolen Power" introduced Shami-Amourae, while in second edition's Planescape setting we learned about Lynkhab.


(Though Lynkhab was never directly described as a Queen of Succubi in Faces of Evil: The Fiends.)

But the similarities between Malcanthet and Shami-Amourae, are quite deep. Both are connected to Demogorgon (indeed, Shami-Amourae was described outright as Demogorgon's lover first time 3E, like Malcanthet was characterized), and are not exactly loyal to him (though only suggested in 2E, but outright stated in 3E with Malcanthet.
Both even use near the same symbol - one of Shami-Amourae's symbols are blood-red feminine lips with protruding fangs; Malcanthet's symbol are feminine lips, the lower of which is pierced with an iron thorn that drips a single drop of blood. Both are described as very intelligent and manipulative.

In retrospect, it's a bit odd 3E writers didn't just describe Malcanthet as an alias/aspect of Shami-Amourae (and I write this liking both Succubi Queens), though I guess they just wanted them as separate entities.

Edited by - Baltas on 05 Feb 2023 00:21:42
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

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Posted - 04 Feb 2023 :  15:35:27  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Neat thoughts Baltas!
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
955 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2023 :  00:22:28  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

Neat thoughts Baltas!




Thanks, glad you found them interesting
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AuldDragon
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Posted - 06 Feb 2023 :  18:05:10  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

Great articles!

Kanchelsis is a great addition. Is Lolth being possibly connected to his creation, inspired by Drow Vampire 2E lore suggesting Lolth is the source of (their strain of?) vampirism, or connection of Vlad Tolenkov to both?


Not really inspired by anything in particular other than she's known to have done evil stuff even before her fall. I like there being lots of stories that crop up to explain mysterious things that aren't explained, both to muddy the waters and to inspire other people who want to make something in particular "true" in their own campaign. Kanchelsis is canonically a visitor to drow cities to enjoy his particular brand of pleasure, so it seemed like a reasonable story that people would tell (plus, people tend to be fans of piling all the wrongs they can think of at the feet of their enemies). :)

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

The connection/romance with Eshebala, and them representing a male and female personification of the dark side of elven nature, is very interesting, and fitting new lore for them.


They definitely seem to have some shared interests regardless of connections! :D

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

With Entemoch or Sunnis, fans for years wondered if they are the same enity or two separate ones. It's possible for them to be one - Near-Powers were known to have aspects (if not in the 3E meanig)/forms, for example Verin with his aspect as Ztefano. Also curiosly, Grumbar, Ogremoch's and Entemoch's possible father, has a female aspect on Toril - Etugen.
If separate, I wonder if they are one related. Lovers or some other form of partnership? Maybe one is the the child of the other? If Sunnis is Entemoch's mother with Grumbar, she could also be the mother of Ogremoch, who moved to an opposite alignement to his mother (possibly influenced by the Elder Elemental God?).
With Unguliustûk - great find of this obscure Archomental. I think (when not considered as an alias of Ogremoch), he could be the previous Archomental of Evil Earth, deposed by Ogremoch.


We know that there are non-archomentals who claim that status (Bwimb/Bwimb II, Chilimba, and Ehkahk), it seems reasonable that there might be some powerful individuals who claim to be archomentals but aren't really. That's what I see Unguliustuk, considering he is from a 1e Dungeon adventure at a time when there weren't good archomentals but Imix, Ogremoch, and the like were all *examples* of a larger group. With 2e making it reasonably clear that there are only two on each of the four elemental planes, plus Cryonax, I see Unguliustuk downgraded like the other paraelemental lords. If I were to run a campaign on Elemental Earth, I would either treat Entemoch the same or make him an alias of Sunnis.

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

With Megwandir, it's fascinating that she could be either Lolth or the Queen of Air and Darkness. But she might had been both, in context of some obscure lore.


I really put that in purely as a "what would elves say on a world with snow elves but no drow?" They'd of course blame the other major evil deity known to the elves.

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

Or that's my idea, and it's 4th edition influenced, so I’m not sure how much you would like it.


It's pretty interesting, and I can understand why it is compelling for some people, but for me, it feels more like something you'd find in Marvel Comics rather than real mythology. But that's entirely on me. :)

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

With Shami-Amourae, it's great to see the OG Succubus Queen to getting more attention.
I like how the 6 Succubi from her retinue, are named after various succubi, or similar entities from reall life folklore, except Phryne, who is named after a famous Greek courtesan.


Lemme tell ya, I had a hard time coming up with six names who fit, who weren't already in use, weren't clearly too powerful (i.e. would likely be a separate unique-if-minor demoness), and weren't *all* from the same basic source. That's one of the reasons I put Phryne in. :)

There were some interesting legendary/mythical Mesoamerican figures I considered but they didn't quite fit I felt.

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

With reall life inspiration, I wondered if the "Shami" part of Shami-Amourae name isn't derived either from Samael (sometimes spelled Samil or Shemal, and who is either Lilith's partner, or even her male aspect, as decribed in the 12th century Treatise on the Left Emanation, and latter Zohar), or Samyaza (possible spellings include "Samiaza(z)", or "Shamazya"), both connected to lust in folklore.
If Shami-Amourae has a quite a different origin to them (especially in 1e and 2e), more similar to Lilith's from Alphabet of Ben Sira (and later sources inspiired y it), or Zohra/Zahra/Istahar from Jewish and Arabic stories about Samyaza. It would be a distorted/corrupted spelling, but so is "Amourae" - being a corruption of of "Amor" (the deity's name) or "amour".


I always figured her name essentially means "fake love" (sham amor). :)

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

With her preference for human, elven or half-elven worshippers and sacrifices (as mentioned in lore since 1e in general), I wondered if in life she was a member of these races, or of a similar race.
(Elves had a "spirit" that reincarnated in 1E, but I think if the spirit advanced from larvae to succubus, I think it would stop/derail the process).


The material makes it pretty clear she is *incredibly* old. I doubt her original form would be recognizable, except maybe to the Juna. I suspect she has just adapted her preferences to the common life forms that tanar'ri prey upon now.

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

Kanchelsis' and her's antagonism has sense, seeing the set-up. I'm personaly though a bit disapointed Greater Vampires (spawned by succubi), were not touched uppon (and how it plays into the two's antagonism), though I guess them not being mentioned since 1E's Lords of Darkness, might be part of the reason.


I can't say I'm familiar with them; I'll take a look at that product again (it's been a while). I think by 2e Ravenloft had the definitive material on powerful vampires.

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

In retrospect, it's a bit odd 3E writers didn't just describe Malcanthet as an alias/aspect of Shami-Amourae (and I write this liking both Succubi Queens), though I guess they just wanted them as separate entities.



Considering she only appeared in a single adventure and then in the reprint and update to the adventure, it's fair that later writers missed her when they wanted a queen of succubi figure, and it was only afterwards that it was pointed out that there was already one. :)

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
955 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2023 :  22:21:06  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

Not really inspired by anything in particular other than she's known to have done evil stuff even before her fall. I like there being lots of stories that crop up to explain mysterious things that aren't explained, both to muddy the waters and to inspire other people who want to make something in particular "true" in their own campaign. Kanchelsis is canonically a visitor to drow cities to enjoy his particular brand of pleasure, so it seemed like a reasonable story that people would tell (plus, people tend to be fans of piling all the wrongs they can think of at the feet of their enemies). :)



Yeah, that makes sense.

quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

We know that there are non-archomentals who claim that status (Bwimb/Bwimb II, Chilimba, and Ehkahk), it seems reasonable that there might be some powerful individuals who claim to be archomentals but aren't really. That's what I see Unguliustuk, considering he is from a 1e Dungeon adventure at a time when there weren't good archomentals but Imix, Ogremoch, and the like were all *examples* of a larger group. With 2e making it reasonably clear that there are only two on each of the four elemental planes, plus Cryonax, I see Unguliustuk downgraded like the other paraelemental lords. If I were to run a campaign on Elemental Earth, I would either treat Entemoch the same or make him an alias of Sunnis.




Your right, Bwimb, Bwimb II, Chilimba, and Ehkahk (as well as Quasi-archomentals), do fit of the categgory of not quite troe Archomentals, and could be an example of what Unguliustuk and (possibly) Entemoch would be (if both being claimant to title, that is held by an actual Archomental).

quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

There were some interesting legendary/mythical Mesoamerican figures I considered but they didn't quite fit I felt.



Interesting - who were they?

quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
I always figured her name essentially means "fake love" (sham amor). :)



That's quite possible


quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

The material makes it pretty clear she is *incredibly* old. I doubt her original form would be recognizable, except maybe to the Juna. I suspect she has just adapted her preferences to the common life forms that tanar'ri prey upon now.



Hmm, yes, though confusingly, The Ultimate Helm novel presented (confusingly) humanity as very old race, and were along the Juna among the species evacuated from the First Sphere/Broken Sphere/Ouiyan.

Her share age, is also why I suggested Shami-Amourae could be a member of a "similar" race to elves, humanity, or half-elves.
Mentioned in Spelljammer, there were the Reigar (who are themselves extremelly ancient, but younger than Juna), who kinda have traits similar to humans and kinda/to a degree elves.

I also thought of LeShay from 3E and up (though who were identfied in larte 3E with the Fey Creator Race of Toril's Creator Races - which was introduced in 2E), who are extremelly old - according to their lore from ther first apperance (in The Epic Level Handbook), predating the current multiverse in some capacity:
quote:
LeShay are the mere remnant of a once-great race
whose origins are lost to history. They claim to predate the
current multiverse and refer darkly to some catastrophe
that not only wiped out most of their people but changed
time so that their era never existed, even in the remotest
past. Attempting to undo the catastrophe would apparently
result in another disaster even more terrible, so the deci-
mated survivors—less than gods but more than mortals—
for the most part merely attempt to amuse them selves and
stave off ennui as they work out their individual destinies.


Though latter editions made them less ancient.

They also appear elven of with some traits of half-elves, and are albinos, the latter kinda close to Shami-Amourae's looks (if she has golden, not pale white hair):
quote:
As elves are to humans, so are leShay to the elves (but more
so): a race immortal, enigmatic, and exceptionally powerful.
LeShay look like tall, thin, albino elves, except that
they lack the oversized ears of true elves (leShay ears
look more like half-elf ears) and, while they have the
glossy dead-white hair of true albinos, their eyes are pits
of darkness.



They do resemble some races from earlier edition lore - the Sie from 2E Cerilia (the Birthright setting); the mentioned before Fey Creator Race of Faerun; and from Basic D&D/Mystara the Sidhe (Sidhe, and Fey in general in Mystara even coming from a previous cycle of the multiverse, one were Chaos/Entropy ruled, and compromised multiple spheres) and Eldar (though Eldar are contriversial, as their storyline/lore contradicts a lot of other, previous Mystara lore).

Though Shami-Amourae being of a completelly different looking (than her current self and preffered worshippers and sacrifices) race/species, is also very possible (even more so), but I just thought these posibilities (Reigar, LeShay, or another similar, early humanoid race) could be interesting.

quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

Considering she only appeared in a single adventure and then in the reprint and update to the adventure, it's fair that later writers missed her when they wanted a queen of succubi figure, and it was only afterwards that it was pointed out that there was already one. :)



Yeah, that probably was the case. Still, the certain similarities between the two, even beyond being Queens of Sucubi, are interesting. Though I guess it could just both share similar or even the same inspirations.

Mod edit: fixed some stray coding so the post would look right

Edited by - Baltas on 07 Feb 2023 01:19:39
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

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Posted - 01 Mar 2023 :  06:20:21  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kavor the Lord of Gravity: http://bit.ly/3IAVHGR

One of the more interesting and less-developed races in Spelljammer were the stout grav, a race of miners who are able to manipulate gravity. The material presented for them makes no actual mention of a deity or faith that they follow or even priests, but it typically strikes me as unusual when races have no deities in D&D. Since the grav have featured heavily in the current leg of my Spelljammer campaign, it gave me ample opportunity to work on their culture and faith, and so I created the deity Kavor for them.

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11724 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2023 :  20:36:17  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Heavy..... {snaps fingers like a hippie from 1970's tv}

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 02 Mar 2023 20:52:34
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

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Posted - 02 Mar 2023 :  21:10:58  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Heavy..... {snaps fingers like a hippie from 1970's tv}



I may have gone overboard slipping words like that into his description. ;D

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11724 Posts

Posted - 06 Mar 2023 :  22:15:16  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know, I know you're writing this for 2e, but this Kavor guy would make a great primordial. Having the gravs be psionic individuals using telekinetic powers rather than wizardry would also seem to work well with them. Their elites might actually be classed as psion type and/or artificer type classes rather than wizards. Having them use psionic power to make their weapons heavier on impact, pr making something akin to oil of impact, etc...

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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