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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 18:37:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Kalin Agrivar
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I'm in a rather awkward position where FR elf lore is concerned. Yes, I have written several elf-focused novels over the past 15 years or so, but those were written under second edition rules. Many of the assumptions and details have changed since then. Just yesterday, I was reading the copyedited manuscript of the upcoming "best of ec" anthology, and noted quite a few anachronistic references--such as the mention of elven "infravision" which allowed elves, even surface elves, to perceive a heat signature.
Richard Baker's Last Mythal trilogy was advertised as "reinventing the elves of Faerun." I suspect that still more changes are coming. Since I'm not in the loop on these, and since the second edition elves are really a sort of footnote in Realms history, I don't feel comfortable commenting on elven lore.
that is saddening 
But it was a damn good trilogy  |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 19:06:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
[quote]Originally posted by Kalin Agrivar
But it was a damn good trilogy
I certainly didn't intend to imply otherwise. I'm just saying that shared worlds frequently take new directions, and certain questions are best addressed by those who are actively involved in shaping those directions. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 31 Oct 2006 23:18:44 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 00:38:33
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On this same dangerous topic...
I'm not sure you'll want to answer that one, but I'll try 
What is your view on the fact that the main argument behind the "Elven Crusade" is the fact that the security of Evermeet was proven false in your own work (Evermeet) ?
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Edited by - Skeptic on 01 Nov 2006 00:39:41 |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 00:53:15
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Hello again Elaine!
I've got a question about Thorn, the Eilistraeen Lythari Champion. I found her quite an interesting character.
Anyway, I was wondering if you could share with us anything about how she came to venerate Eilistraee? I'm guessing she would be more interested in the hunting and moonlight aspects of Eilistraee, but was she born into the worship of her, or converted at some point?
Thanks again. (And apologies if this has been asked before, but I looked through quite a bit of the replies here and didn't find any.) |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 00:55:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
On this same dangerous topic...
I'm not sure you'll want to answer that one, but I'll try
What is your view on the fact that the main argument behind the "Elven Crusade" is the fact that the security of Evermeet was proven false in your own work (Evermeet) ?
It's not really a dangerous topic; in fact, it's entirely reasonable that the attack on Evermeet might inspire the elves to reclaim mainland strongholds. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 01:01:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
I've got a question about Thorn, the Eilistraeen Lythari Champion. I found her quite an interesting character.
Anyway, I was wondering if you could share with us anything about how she came to venerate Eilistraee? I'm guessing she would be more interested in the hunting and moonlight aspects of Eilistraee, but was she born into the worship of her, or converted at some point?
Good questions. If you don't mind, however, I think I'd prefer to answer them in a short story. This is one of the topics I've been thinking about addressing in an online story.
Glad to hear you found the character interesting. Thorn appears in "Answered Prayer," one of the new short stories in the upcoming "best of ec" anthology. Her personality is, predictably enough, a cross between an elf and a wolf, and that was an interesting mindset to try to capture. |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 01:06:26
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Ooh. A Short Story would certainly be perfect to answer those questions.
And of course, I'm looking forward to the 'Best of EC'. Even more so now that Thorn's in a new story. |
Edited by - Uzzy on 01 Nov 2006 01:09:02 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 02:10:34
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
I've got a question about Thorn, the Eilistraeen Lythari Champion. I found her quite an interesting character.
Anyway, I was wondering if you could share with us anything about how she came to venerate Eilistraee? I'm guessing she would be more interested in the hunting and moonlight aspects of Eilistraee, but was she born into the worship of her, or converted at some point?
Good questions. If you don't mind, however, I think I'd prefer to answer them in a short story. This is one of the topics I've been thinking about addressing in an online story.
Glad to hear you found the character interesting. Thorn appears in "Answered Prayer," one of the new short stories in the upcoming "best of ec" anthology. Her personality is, predictably enough, a cross between an elf and a wolf, and that was an interesting mindset to try to capture.
Oh, that sounds most promising! I look forward to it.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 16:02:41
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Another question for Elaine, floating in the ether...
quote:
Originally posted by Stormsong
I've read back quite a ways in this thread and done some searching, but my ability to NOT find things is well practiced so I'll ask here.
Elaine, your S&S series of books are far and away my favorites of the FR fiction titles. Beautiful characterizations and details of every kind.
There are a number of references to events that fall just before the Dreamspheres book. Danilo being named elf friend by Elaith, the rather humorous picture of Elaith menaced by gnomes, etc. I can't find a novel covering these and your "final" novel does seem to be post these events. Is there such a book or will I have to rely on my imagination to fill in the events?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 16:45:59
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quote:
There are a number of references to events that fall just before the Dreamspheres book. Danilo being named elf friend by Elaith, the rather humorous picture of Elaith menaced by gnomes, etc. I can't find a novel covering these and your "final" novel does seem to be post these events. Is there such a book or will I have to rely on my imagination to fill in the events?
This story is covered by two short stories, told from two different points of view. The first, "Speaking With the Dead," tells Danilo's attempts to proove Elaith innocent of a gnome's murder. "Stolen Dreams" is from the perspective of Isabeau Thione, who in this story is a barmaid employed by gnomes, unaware of her true name and heritage. Both will be included in the "best of ec" anthology. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 02 Nov 2006 20:40:25 |
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Stormsong
Acolyte
1 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2006 : 16:58:05
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quote:
This story is covered by two short stories
Thanks Elaine. While my standard rule is to avoid compilation short stories (too many disappointments), for these stories (and any other's you write) I will make a happy exception. |
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 20:15:27
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| "Speaking with the Dead" is a prime example of why the anthologies are always worth picking up in my eyes(despite disapponitments being a general possibility, a reasoning I can understand). Marvelous short story and even better if you“re a DM and put your players in Danilo“s boots...he, he...er, excuse my ranting, please, just got carried away by some fond memories there... |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 20:42:04
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| Glad you enjoyed the story! Writing a murder mystery in a high-magic setting brings its own set of challenges, but I'm a big mystery fan, and enjoyed having a chance to write a story of this nature in the Realms. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 13:21:41
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-Hey, Elaine. I was wondering...
-I remember reading somewhere (most likely here) that there were no plans to ever really discuss Prince Lamruil's Elven Realm ever again. With this said, I was wondering if you could maybe tell us what you think his realm would be like, since you know what's going on in the Prince's mind like your own (). You do know him best, after all. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 06 Nov 2006 13:22:46 |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 14:13:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Stormsong
quote:
This story is covered by two short stories
Thanks Elaine. While my standard rule is to avoid compilation short stories (too many disappointments), for these stories (and any other's you write) I will make a happy exception.
That's the beauty of the short stories, if it's a disappointment you haven't wasted too much time 
edit: ooh firefox 2 has a spellchecker now. Sweet , no more editing posts for me. apart from this one. |
Edited by - Kaladorm on 06 Nov 2006 14:14:26 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 15:13:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-Hey, Elaine. I was wondering...
-I remember reading somewhere (most likely here) that there were no plans to ever really discuss Prince Lamruil's Elven Realm ever again. With this said, I was wondering if you could maybe tell us what you think his realm would be like, since you know what's going on in the Prince's mind like your own (). You do know him best, after all.
Sorry, but no can do. That would fall into the catagory of "publishing unapproved and unofficial FR lore," which isn't something anyone but Ed Greenwood can do, simply because what Ed says is, by definition, approved and official. Ed's pronouncements are "canon" until something WotC publishes contracts him.
It is entirely possible that another writer may someday be contracted to follow Lamruil's adventures. Hell, for that matter, it's not entirely outside the realm of possibility that I might return to that story someday. With this in mind, I'm a firm proponent of leaving a story untold until it's, well, told. |
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Alediran
Acolyte
Argentina
36 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 15:23:13
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Until that, we'll have the fanmade version of Lamuril's Realm in the Elven Netbook:
Mod Edit: Removed the link per Elaine's request. |
Alediran of House Tir'ent from Evermeet, the most knowledgeable elven family about Faerūn.
- Member of the Elven Netbook proyect |
Edited by - Kuje on 06 Nov 2006 17:04:44 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 15:27:16
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Elaine,
I think you have good reasons for not making these speculations. That said, I think you overstate the change between '2E' and '3E' elves, and I know that in cases where you have a clear idea about something -- as opposed to being asked to make it up on the spot -- many of us would appreciate your suitably disclaimered thoughts. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 16:35:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Alediran
Until that, we'll have the fanmade version of Lamuril's Realm in the Elven Netbook:
Mod Edit: Removed the link per Elaine's request.
No offense to either the poster or the author of the fanfic, but I'm going to ask the moderator to delete this link from my Q&A thread. I make it a practice to avoid reading fanfic, particularly that written in shared-world settings. I don't even visit places where fanfic is posted. This way, if there's ever a copyright challenge to something I've written, there is no way anyone can prove I've visited sites that publish fanfic. Paranoid? I prefer the words "careful" and "responsible."
Frankly, I'm surprised to learn that WotC is posting fanfic on their official website. |
Edited by - Kuje on 06 Nov 2006 17:05:11 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 16:44:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Elaine,
I think you have good reasons for not making these speculations. That said, I think you overstate the change between '2E' and '3E' elves, and I know that in cases where you have a clear idea about something -- as opposed to being asked to make it up on the spot -- many of us would appreciate your suitably disclaimered thoughts.
After your answer to my last question I felt the same way, the major change was caused by Evermeet (ending the retreat and going back to the continent) other than that I don't see much changes except maybe Green elves separated in Wood/Wild but I doubt that is what you're angry at.
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Arkhaedun
Senior Scribe
869 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 17:00:20
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Lets not speculate on any of our authors or contributers state of mind or reasons for not wanting to do what they do, and please lets not try to badger them into answering questions that they have already stated that they are not comfortable or willing to go into. I thank you all for your contributions, and its great that you are interested in Elaine, her work, and her opinions, but lets respect what she has said and move on from this topic now.
Thank you. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 17:15:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
That said, I think you overstate the change between '2E' and '3E' elves, and I know that in cases where you have a clear idea about something -- as opposed to being asked to make it up on the spot -- many of us would appreciate your suitably disclaimered thoughts.
I don't think I do. There HAVE been significant changes to elf lore, magic, and direction between 2.0 and 3.5. Take drow magic, for example. Under first edition rules, drow had few restrictions on their magic. In 2.0, their spells and magical items disintegrated on the surface world. In 3.5, not so much. If that seems a small thing, consider the diminished impact of the Battle of Keeper's Dale to a reader who came in under 3.5 rules. Also consider Windwalker,the third Liriel book. The plot for the first two books was predicated on the "fact" that drow couldn't bring their magic to the surface. After much consideration and rending of hair, I decided to write the change into the story.
Elves are no longer in Retreat. The elven afterlife has been redefined. Several new sub-races have been added. Elves have been breeding with planar creatures to create still more races. These are significant changes. But I'm not "angry" about any of them. A fact of life in shared-world writing is that changes will occur. The only thing that frustrated me is the various uses made of moonblades, which have been so central to an on-going story, and which necessitated several changes of direction for a work-in-progress. But even there, I've adapted and moved on. There are many ways to tell a story, and shared-world writing requires a certain amount of flexibility.
To all: Please understand that when I deflect questions about elves, it's not because I'm pissed off about changes. I've been a team player in the Realms for about 17 years now, and in my mind, that includes getting off the field and out of the way when someone else is running with the ball.
As to Faraer's comment on "proper disclaimers," it is a fact of life that anything you say can, and probably will, be quoted out of context. Just ask John Kerry.  |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 06 Nov 2006 19:02:32 |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 18:41:50
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The fact people have to remember is because the realms in a shared world, Elaine is not the highest person on the pyramid. The top of the pyramid is Ed Greenwood and/or the owners of Wizards of the Coasts (though Ed has a lot of leverage). If Ed says that elves turn plaid when exposed to blue cheeze, they do.
Then comes two steps: The Novel department and the RPG department.
Elaine is part of the novel department, the main job of which is to create great stories in the world of the Realms. With her writtings in the realms, she would be amoung the highest levels of the Novel department with Mr. Greenwood and Mr. Salvatore (Sp?). In those stories, she takes the lore that has been revealed and runs with it. Then she also creates her own lore as well (moonblades anyone?).
The RPG department is the section which creates lores and rules for those who want to play with world can come to. They are the building blocks of the realm's gameplay, but that doesn't mean that they can be of use to the novelist or that the novelist do not impact them. One part is for them to translate novel ideas to game ideas.
The fact is that communication between the two of them is not the best and can be very poor. Like the Starym Moonblade, which has caused conflict at times. Plus 3ed had a painful birth as there were attempts to keep control over the game and try to make everyone happy. This lead to narrowing of gods and planes that had to be fixed by allowing them to exist in the current frame work.
There is rumour of a managing editor who will bring good communication to both sections, Novels and RPG. This might ease problems that will occur.
Back to the point, Elaine is an freelance author from my understanding. Therefore she does not have day-to-day control over the realms. Does this mean that her books do not link with current realms or will this limit her writting for the realms?
I say no. Fact of the matter is that she just has to be keyed up with the current geist of the company. Talk to those that have made the changes or their spokesperson so that she can understand the reasons for it. Once that is done, I am sure that she could link her books to the current realms with ideas the RPG guys might not have thought about. Or expand their ideas in new and interesting ways.
Just some of my thoughts. I hope they make sense and I have not stepped on Elaine's toes. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 18:49:31
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One thing Foxhelm,
Per Gencon 2006, both departments are now one. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 18:57:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
Talk to those that have made the changes or their spokesperson so that she can understand the reasons for it. Once that is done, I am sure that she could link her books to the current realms with ideas the RPG guys might not have thought about. Or expand their ideas in new and interesting ways.
There IS a considerable amount of discussion during the planning phase of any project. The proposal for this book, and in particular how it touches upon the future of Toril's elves, has been vetted not only by the editor, but by other people who are planning the directions the Realms will take.
I'm not part of the "novel department;" I am, as Foxhelm observed, a freelance writer. We work on a need-to-know basis, but that doesn't mean we're writing in a vaccuum. Shared-world writing requires a lot of, well, sharing. That said, I don't question rule changes, or expect folks to explain the reasons to me. I'm playing in someone else's sandbox, and I knew going in that this would mean playing by their rules.
Writers who work in the Realms get a considerable amount of creative freedom. The setting is what it is, and we create characters and build plots that move within this setting. As I've said many times, it's really no different from writing historical fiction, other than the fact that the "history" is fictitious, and no more limiting.
I think it's important for writers to develop relationships with more than one publisher, and to write more than one kind of fiction. I think it's important to try new things, to take risks and explore new ideas. I really think it's important for shared-world writers to also develop creator-owned fiction. I'm not looking to the Realms to satisfy my every storytelling dream and whim. The stories I write in the Realms are Forgotten Realms stories. I don't find them limiting. I might, if that were the only thing I was writing, but I like the framework of the Realms--obviously, or I wouldn't have kept at it for so long. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 18:58:48
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
As to Faraer's comment on "proper disclaimers," it is a fact of life that anything you say can, and probably will, be quoted out of context. Just ask John Kerry.
-He'd say he wasn't misquoted, but then later say that he was...
-Oh well. Sorry to have set off such a firestorm.  |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 06 Nov 2006 19:01:16 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 19:11:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
[quote][i]
Sorry to have set off such a firestorm.
No problem. More like a cigarette lighter than a firestorm.
Suggestion to moderators: It might be a good idea to post somewhere conspicuous that of all FR novelists, only Ed Greenwood can create and disseminate lore without the prior review and approval of WotC. If something isn't already in print, I can't talk about it. One could argue that some types of speculation are not necessarily a violation of NDA, but I think doing so is short-sighted.
Maintaining continuity in a world as vast, sprawling, and well established as the Realms is a difficult task. It's just not a good idea to have "non-canon" data in the memory banks. If you don't read or create appocrophal lore, there's less chance of continuity errors creeping into your work. This is yet another reason why I don't read fanfic, and it's a major reason why I no longer address "what if?" or "what next?" questions. It might be fun to informally catch up on the goings-on of certain characters, but in the long run, I think this more conservative stance benefits everyone. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 06 Nov 2006 19:14:06 |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 19:32:03
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
of all FR novelists, only Ed Greenwood can create and disseminate lore without the prior review and approval of WotC.
Yet another reason why I would worship Ed as a god if I believed in gods. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 19:33:24
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Steven Schend and Eric Boyd have posted a lot of unofficial lore (especially to REALMS-L). I don't know how they or TSR or Wizards feel about that, but for the readers and DMs I see little confusion and much benefit from their insight. I don't think they're short-sighted. But equally, I don't doubt your caution is also a fine approach.
The elf changes are individually minor: few drow spend much time on the surface; elves weren't in retreat before 1344 DR either (simplification); subraces half a world away don't affect your life; living elves don't know for sure what happens after death. Most of what was true still holds. Many of the changes are also temporary; if it wasn't for Windwalker writing it into the lore, I'd have written off the no-disintegrating-items as a rules artefact.
Of course, how significant they are taken as a whole is subjective. I think you got unlucky with the plot point in Windwalker and with the lack of communication about moonblades. You don't read as angry, but it doesn't hurt to remind you we respect what you had or have to say about these things. |
Edited by - Faraer on 06 Nov 2006 19:34:19 |
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Questions for Elaine Cunningham
Topic Locked
