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rodrigoalcanza
Seeker
Brazil
67 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Jan 2014 : 15:38:25
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Hello!
There is a question that I still have not seen answered in any book, not even in the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. What is the cost to buy land? This book, for example, shows us the cost of all stages of construction, but does not show the most basic, the cost of land. For example, what is the price of land in Cormyr? Or the Dalelands? Or these countries allow people to build their houses and fortresses without paying anything for the land?
Sorry for the English.
Thank you!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2014 : 16:18:38
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It depends in large part upon that mantra of real estate agents everywhere: location, location, location.
A plot of land suitable for nothing but farming, adjacent to a forest and miles from civilization, will be quite cheap.
Put a gem mine on that land, and the price goes up considerably.
Or move the chunk of land to the outskirts of Suzail. This is considerably more expensive than the simple farmland.
Move it to the heart of Suzail, and it's even more expensive.
Heck, where I live, the land is one price -- but go just a couple miles east, and the price goes up considerably. Why? Because I live in Florida. Beachfront land is more expensive than the same parcel of land a few miles from the beach, even though I have far less concerns about storm surges or erosion.
So the price is determined by the size of the land, where the land is located, and what it's going to be used for. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Jan 2014 16:19:36 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1882 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2014 : 16:33:18
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I seem to recall reading a discussion or article somewhere (not sure if it was here at the Keep or elsewhere) concerning the general price of land in the Realms. What we need is a general base price and then a scale based on location.
And I remember now, Ed answered a question about land prices in Waterdeep. But, as usual, there is so much to comb through that finding it will be difficult methinks. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1882 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2014 : 16:37:20
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Here is a link discussing rental property http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3780&SearchTerms=Waterdeep,land,prices,cost
And this may be what I was thinking about originally: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16878&SearchTerms=Waterdeep,land,prices,cost
This is virtually identical to the post above but may be more in-depth: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16878&SearchTerms=Waterdeep,land,prices,cost |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
Edited by - The Arcanamach on 19 Jan 2014 16:40:09 |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
747 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2014 : 16:59:52
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| In areas that are "frontier" areas or extremely isolated, there is NO money price for land. For instance in the Silver Marches, once you're outside the reach of a given power (say 60 miles from Silverymoon), there is no entity which owns the land, and no one from which to purchase it. You can own as much land as you can hold, plain and simple. Granted holding a significant piece of land in the Silver Marches would be extremely difficult, and would last about as long as the time until the next orc horde. Free holds is the term used I believe. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2014 : 17:30:37
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Cost of land clearly is a factor of demand and also income that can be derived from it when talking about business or farm.
No one seeking a profit would pay more for land that over time they could not recover costs. The question as far as pricing then becomes how much can be earned from the land balanced against how soon you want to recover the cost of the land. There clearly can be other factors a place to build a home to raise family in which a person might never care about getting the purchase price back because the land will always be theirs. In that case the calculation the cost of land would be higher or a purchaser willing to pay more.
A farmer might grow 10 bushels of wheat per acre. The market price of this is 6 gp per year. There are costs of production also a farmer would need to eat some of the food grown in order to stay alive. Cost of product and taxes could easily about 50 percent of income, might be more or less based of various factors. Use though after cost each acre of Wheat yields a profit of 3gp per year. If one wants their investment back in 20 years at best they would pay 60 gp per acre, provided they had other income to pay for food, tools and shelter. If they plan to live off the land the cheapest food would cost about 3.3 gp per year (that based on one pound a day of food)per person. In this case an acre of land is not worth buying, in fact one would want it given to them with a reduction of taxes just to make it worth while to farm.
Of course buying 10 acres or 25 for farming (some common medieval farms that serfs or peasants worked the price of a farm would be higher. It would work out that maybe 3 to 5 acres would provide a profit, the rest of production paying costs or providing food.
Thus a wheat farm of 25 acres might turn a profit of 9 to 15 gp per year.
Change food consumption, yield, prices, crop grown etc. certainly can calculate different numbers. There never was much on the economic structure of the role play world. The farms NPCs had enough to live, the smiths made enough money, and so on. How it works is not addressed in any meaningful way. A price list for goods is given, they work well for game purposes (though some clearly can complain at times about price differences that do not make sense).
All in all it also depends on the time, weather conditions and so many other factors like war and so on. There never can really be a set price per land that makes a true answer, just like saying a pound of wheat always sells for 1 cp.
At best one can try to estimate how much land is worth based of where it is located. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2014 : 17:41:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
In areas that are "frontier" areas or extremely isolated, there is NO money price for land. For instance in the Silver Marches, once you're outside the reach of a given power (say 60 miles from Silverymoon), there is no entity which owns the land, and no one from which to purchase it. You can own as much land as you can hold, plain and simple. Granted holding a significant piece of land in the Silver Marches would be extremely difficult, and would last about as long as the time until the next orc horde. Free holds is the term used I believe.
And if you start getting rich, attracting attention or building a settlement, then you should probably expect someone from the Silver Marches to show up at your door and discuss ownership, taxes, etcetera. In the Silver Marches it will probably be an amiable visit, but depending on the place, you might find some lord wanting to usurp your land. |
Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.
Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955
My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2014 : 17:48:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
In areas that are "frontier" areas or extremely isolated, there is NO money price for land. For instance in the Silver Marches, once you're outside the reach of a given power (say 60 miles from Silverymoon), there is no entity which owns the land, and no one from which to purchase it. You can own as much land as you can hold, plain and simple. Granted holding a significant piece of land in the Silver Marches would be extremely difficult, and would last about as long as the time until the next orc horde. Free holds is the term used I believe.
Cleally this is an option you avoid taxes for example, however such a PCC or NPC would need to provide their own security. Orcs are not the only thing to fear, wolves, fox, bandits etc. So there is the cost of weapons, higher cost of building strong houses.
As for range of control of a dominion often it ranged from one days travel from a patrol base. The border lands are an example of such locations. Between but far from two centers of power. Both might even claim it however do not assert control over it because it is too costly to send patrols and/or tax collectots that distance and have them return. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
747 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2014 : 18:00:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
In areas that are "frontier" areas or extremely isolated, there is NO money price for land. For instance in the Silver Marches, once you're outside the reach of a given power (say 60 miles from Silverymoon), there is no entity which owns the land, and no one from which to purchase it. You can own as much land as you can hold, plain and simple. Granted holding a significant piece of land in the Silver Marches would be extremely difficult, and would last about as long as the time until the next orc horde. Free holds is the term used I believe.
And if you start getting rich, attracting attention or building a settlement, then you should probably expect someone from the Silver Marches to show up at your door and discuss ownership, taxes, etcetera. In the Silver Marches it will probably be an amiable visit, but depending on the place, you might find some lord wanting to usurp your land.
Indeed, and I only apply my line of thinking to free holds that pre-date the formation of the League of Silver Marches.
Freeholds that are formed post League of Silver Marches, technically belong to and fall under the rule of said League, and by extension also fall under the Lord's Alliance.
And of course, any such free holds cannot in any way threaten the security of any realm, or the Marches in general. Thus, the rightful owner of such free holds must keep his land and a reasonable area around his holding free from monsters, brigands and other such threats, lest he find the Shining Host at his doorway to deal with his problems for him. At which time payment would be due or at worst confiscation of his land could occur should the owner be deemed unfit to hold his lands secure.
Additionally, any such free hold would be required to aid in the defense of the realm from any external threat, by providing funds, material assistance, warm bodies (irregulars), or at the very least responsibility for that area which directly adjoins said free hold. |
Edited by - Cards77 on 19 Jan 2014 18:07:16 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1882 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2014 : 00:41:00
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| On p.7 of the 2e adventure Nightmare Keep the PCs are told that they will be rewarded with 'prime Cormyrean farmland' with an annual income of 25,000gp. Of course, it doesn't state how much acreage is actually being given...but I thought the info would give some perspective on farming in the Realms. Clearly there is more money in it than 6gp/year (that would be over 4100 acres). Of course, said farm is likely a ranch/farm with multiple sources of income. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2014 : 01:26:29
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A Knight's Fee would be around 2,500 acres (depending on what source you look at it can be more or less).
This would result in the equipping of one knight and usually a yeoman or two as well. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2014 : 02:06:31
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Arcanamach, Dalor
The six gp per acre is based on best medieval crop yields per good growing season. The Realms might have better growing conditions. There can be money in chickens and pigs that offset the cost of the wheat fields they consume. Of course can be hunting, gather, some trade and production.
4100 acres is only about 6.4 square miles, 2500 is about 3.9 square miles. I could offer the square footage, the odds of non crop space, but in the game and sources there really is not enough information to calculate the profit or loss of 43,560 square feet when one seeks to produce food. There is place for house, there can be trees , gorges and steams.
D&D still can not well deal with how NPCs manage to live with food costs, the lack of transportation and so on.
It also should clearly be noted that no "'prime Cormyrean farmland'" or "Knight's Fee" can be farmed by by the solely work of the PC, they need farmers, a smith, etc. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12022 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2014 : 02:55:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
In areas that are "frontier" areas or extremely isolated, there is NO money price for land. For instance in the Silver Marches, once you're outside the reach of a given power (say 60 miles from Silverymoon), there is no entity which owns the land, and no one from which to purchase it. You can own as much land as you can hold, plain and simple. Granted holding a significant piece of land in the Silver Marches would be extremely difficult, and would last about as long as the time until the next orc horde. Free holds is the term used I believe.
And if you start getting rich, attracting attention or building a settlement, then you should probably expect someone from the Silver Marches to show up at your door and discuss ownership, taxes, etcetera. In the Silver Marches it will probably be an amiable visit, but depending on the place, you might find some lord wanting to usurp your land.
Vaasa is probably a better example in this instance. Its a big swampy morass in the summer, a frozen tundra in the winter. You can take all the land you want and can hold against the goblinoids and giants. Yet, here comes King Dragonsbane, swooping in to tell you he's lord over your land, and that in return for his protection you need to pay him taxes. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Land for sale
