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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 07:24:35
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| Also, it should be said that a deal with Bane can hardly be considered iron clad. As far as I know, Ao has no rule for the gods saying they must adhere to their bargains with mortals. |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 07:39:20
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The fact that Mystra is back is that even some gods don't know what is happening all the time. They just purport to be.
Bane might have known or made a guesstimate that Mystra would be back, thus forcing Tam to relearn all his magical arts all over again, consequently making him waste time even more to focus on his own skills as opposed to making those Dread Rings.
Moreover it probably was a avatar that answered Tam. I mean, look at this from Bane's point of view. He lost Zhentil Keep, and his high priest was killed, true he brought him back but perhaps at great personal cost. The loss of the Keep's connections lead to the failure of many Banite Sects across Faerun.
And now the would be monarch of an entire country is trying to bring a portion of him to Faerun. He probably would have known about it from his priests fighting in the frontlines in Thay. Beset by many struggles and possible coups in the higher realms, the chance at gaining the faith on an entire nation as well as a powerful archmage seemed a good deal. Bane had nothing to lose really, in fact one could say he did not lose anything at all. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 07:53:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
The fact that Mystra is back is that even some gods don't know what is happening all the time. They just purport to be.
Bane might have known or made a guesstimate that Mystra would be back, thus forcing Tam to relearn all his magical arts all over again, consequently making him waste time even more to focus on his own skills as opposed to making those Dread Rings.
Moreover it probably was a avatar that answered Tam. I mean, look at this from Bane's point of view. He lost Zhentil Keep, and his high priest was killed, true he brought him back but perhaps at great personal cost. The loss of the Keep's connections lead to the failure of many Banite Sects across Faerun.
And now the would be monarch of an entire country is trying to bring a portion of him to Faerun. He probably would have known about it from his priests fighting in the frontlines in Thay. Beset by many struggles and possible coups in the higher realms, the chance at gaining the faith on an entire nation as well as a powerful archmage seemed a good deal. Bane had nothing to lose really, in fact one could say he did not lose anything at all.
Agreed. Though Bane denied it, Szass Tam knew and understood that Bane needed more worshipers. And having an entire realm (a big one at that) worship him and him alone is not that bad a deal. In fact, it's great. The little power and knowledge boost is probably nothing compared to his having to resurrect some key priests or servants lost in a war against Shade and whoever else. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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wozniak1995
Acolyte
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 09:44:00
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| Since when did Mystra come back? I thought she was dead!? |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 10:10:28
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quote:
Originally posted by wozniak1995
Since when did Mystra come back? I thought she was dead!?
When it comes to gods in FR dead does not mean forever :) |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 10:15:05
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Meh. Not just gods. Same "rule" applies to mortals too. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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wozniak1995
Acolyte
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 15:23:54
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| What are larloch's relations with Shazz Tam at the moment? i remember they had some dealings with each other in the past while exchanging artifacts and Tam fetching some magical artifact that was in the posession of the Harpers for him |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 15:38:17
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quote:
Originally posted by wozniak1995
What are larloch's relations with Shazz Tam at the moment? i remember they had some dealings with each other in the past while exchanging artifacts and Tam fetching some magical artifact that was in the posession of the Harpers for him
Larloch's pretty much letting the curse that was on one of those artifacts drive Tam insane and evil incarnate. He's big on letting projects loose and checking up on them in a century or so. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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wozniak1995
Acolyte
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2013 : 10:10:01
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by wozniak1995
What are larloch's relations with Shazz Tam at the moment? i remember they had some dealings with each other in the past while exchanging artifacts and Tam fetching some magical artifact that was in the posession of the Harpers for him
Larloch's pretty much letting the curse that was on one of those artifacts drive Tam insane and evil incarnate. He's big on letting projects loose and checking up on them in a century or so.
What artifact was this? I remember him giving Tam a Death moon orb (which i believe exploded in his face  ) and something called Thakorsil's Seat |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2013 : 11:39:21
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| It was the Orb |
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wozniak1995
Acolyte
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2013 : 13:20:45
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
It was the Orb
Was it the artifact itself that corrupted Tam or do you think larloch had some sort of control over the event since he created the Orb? |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2013 : 15:01:24
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quote:
Originally posted by wozniak1995
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
It was the Orb
Was it the artifact itself that corrupted Tam or do you think larloch had some sort of control over the event since he created the Orb?
They've never canonically said. In fact they've never canonically said that Tam's recent changes in attitude just a few years after receiving the item is related either. But, if you look at A then B... Of course, the unspoken question is did the item have some controls over Larloch himself and he only barely managed to rid himself of it? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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wozniak1995
Acolyte
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2013 : 15:47:37
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by wozniak1995
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
It was the Orb
Was it the artifact itself that corrupted Tam or do you think larloch had some sort of control over the event since he created the Orb?
They've never canonically said. In fact they've never canonically said that Tam's recent changes in attitude just a few years after receiving the item is related either. But, if you look at A then B... Of course, the unspoken question is did the item have some controls over Larloch himself and he only barely managed to rid himself of it?
I wonder how the item could affect larloch? Isn't he immune to mind affecting powers due to the mind link with his liches? I think he gave the orb to Tam because he simply didn't need it anymore and if he did he could just create another one. |
Edited by - wozniak1995 on 23 Oct 2013 17:25:17 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2013 : 18:13:21
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| is there any evidence that he has actually been affected by the orb? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2013 : 18:41:09
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quote:
Originally posted by wozniak1995
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by wozniak1995
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
It was the Orb
Was it the artifact itself that corrupted Tam or do you think larloch had some sort of control over the event since he created the Orb?
They've never canonically said. In fact they've never canonically said that Tam's recent changes in attitude just a few years after receiving the item is related either. But, if you look at A then B... Of course, the unspoken question is did the item have some controls over Larloch himself and he only barely managed to rid himself of it?
I wonder how the item could affect larloch? Isn't he immune to mind affecting powers due to the mind link with his liches? I think he gave the orb to Tam because he simply didn't need it anymore and if he did he could just create another one.
It's more likely, to me, that giving the artifact to Tammy was something that furthered Larloch's own goals. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2013 : 23:34:11
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| Yeah.. I see Larloch as a guy/thing that does what benefits him the most... and that might be giving powerful artifacts to some poor guy. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2013 : 04:18:12
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| If I were Larloch, I'd also work in some kind of magical back door to artifacts giving me some control of the possessor... |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2013 : 11:05:04
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| I think its safe to say, that he has just that! But thats just my thought! I basically think, that whatever we kan think of, he already has thought of... and more! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2013 : 14:41:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
is there any evidence that he has actually been affected by the orb?
Just the entire switch in his attitude from subtle manipulator who was still attempting to fit in with human society by hiding his lich state.... to... person who turns on his society, turns most of them into undead, and works towards that society's destruction in an attempt to seize masses of power (which is essentially what the curse from the orb makes people do).
I also wonder if Larloch might not have had a hand in Tam's failure to capture Eltab. Maybe he tipped off the Simbul? Maybe something else? Might he have wanted Eltab released? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2013 : 16:01:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
is there any evidence that he has actually been affected by the orb?
Evidence? No. Many have speculated that Szass Tam's mad ambition of fulfilling the Ritual of Unmaking is due, in large part, to the Orb's influence. While that sounds likely, it'd be wise to remember that when you're a lich--an immortal archwizard with all the time in the world and a ruler of an entire realm--sometimes you can't help but think of higher, albeit madder, ambitions. And what's higher than being the sole owner of the universe? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 11:18:38
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Just the entire switch in his attitude from subtle manipulator who was still attempting to fit in with human society by hiding his lich state.... to... person who turns on his society, turns most of them into undead, and works towards that society's destruction in an attempt to seize masses of power (which is essentially what the curse from the orb makes people do).
Do we really know much about Tams attitude before the Haunted lands trilogy?
Another theory:
How about Larloch knew the shades where planing their return to toril so he manipulated Tam to believe in the ritual and build the dread rings which later helped him fighting the shades?
This way the shades are occupied fighting Thay and Larloch can continue doing whatever he is doing, or maybe get rid of the shades completly. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 12:40:29
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Just the entire switch in his attitude from subtle manipulator who was still attempting to fit in with human society by hiding his lich state.... to... person who turns on his society, turns most of them into undead, and works towards that society's destruction in an attempt to seize masses of power (which is essentially what the curse from the orb makes people do).
Do we really know much about Tams attitude before the Haunted lands trilogy?
Another theory:
How about Larloch knew the shades where planing their return to toril so he manipulated Tam to believe in the ritual and build the dread rings which later helped him fighting the shades?
This way the shades are occupied fighting Thay and Larloch can continue doing whatever he is doing, or maybe get rid of the shades completly.
I haven't read the Neverwinter saga, so I have no idea as to the extent of forces that Shade sent to deal with Szass Tam's and Dritzz's companies. But if they're able to do so with enough men to spare and deal with the Dales at the same time, or shortly after, then I suppose it really doesn't matter how "occupied" Shade was, and is still. With the whole of Sembia in their grip, they have relatively more than enough resources--men, gold, food, etc.--to deal with multiple threats at the same time. But of course, with the loss of [start of spoiler]Sakkors and two princes[/end of spoiler], a lot of things would change, for better or for worse. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 19:23:11
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| Tam was always intent on dominating all of Thay (and as much of the world around it as possible - as far back as you care to look. I'd say the difference was back then he was balanced by others similarly minded. The only change I see is the desire to dominate undead rather than a nation of people - which is nothing more than a writer/edition change. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 20:21:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Tam was always intent on dominating all of Thay (and as much of the world around it as possible - as far back as you care to look. I'd say the difference was back then he was balanced by others similarly minded. The only change I see is the desire to dominate undead rather than a nation of people - which is nothing more than a writer/edition change.
No, he used to be worried about how he was viewed by the people of Thay (thus the worrying on personal appearance to look human). That likens to worrying about their opinion to a degree. He suddenly flipped a switch and no longer cared about his fellow countrymen's opinions and only craved power. I'm not saying he was some touchy-feely guy before, but now he could care less about anyone other than himself and what power he can grab. Everyone is expendable in his reach for power. It all started after he got the orb, which is when he started plotting to give himself more control in the political arena. Of course, the fact that his hated enemy (Velsharoon) had just outmoved him and become the god of necromancy (and what trumps Zulkir of necromancy if not god of necromancy) could have also led to this change in attitude. You know, perhaps Larloch saw this sudden crack in Tam's sanity caused by Velsharoon's ascension and figured "let's throw him this item and it'll take that crack and shatter him entirely". |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 07:09:42
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The best part is that the Orb was just finishing the job of driving Tam over the edge. But that is how Larloch works, Tam's pursuit of power was foreseeable by someone who had already tried the whole ruling shtick, and getting rid of the Orb and its insidious effect was good for Larloch.
Moreover, the destruction of the Orb did nothing to change Tam's attitudes, if any. In fact it probably made Tam realize that the power was already there, ready for the taking and now he had no more ties to hold him back in his quest for it. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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wozniak1995
Acolyte
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 15:44:32
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| Not really related but i just found out Larloch makes an appearance in Baldurs gate 2 enhanced edition :o |
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Alruane
Senior Scribe
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 15:48:48
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| He does? I may need to get that one next then. I already have the first Enhanced Edition. I was very much fascinated at Larloch, the spells alone made me wonder. I do hope it is explained what he truly is, aside from some higher form of a Lich. |
" I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"
~Joneleth Irenicus
"Wisdom? My dear boy, wisdom is knowing that you do not know everything. Wisdom is realizing, a wise man ALWAYS has questions. Not answers."
~Alruane |
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wozniak1995
Acolyte
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 16:02:27
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| I don't know if it explains what he is in game as there is scarce info online about said quest and i haven't gotten to that stage yet, but im interested at what animation they use for him... same as all the other liches? or different? |
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Alruane
Senior Scribe
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 16:47:48
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| I doubt it, but it would be nice if they elaborated on his condition and what he is. I am to though, they should use a custom animation for his character. Instead of a usual lich like the rest of them. |
" I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"
~Joneleth Irenicus
"Wisdom? My dear boy, wisdom is knowing that you do not know everything. Wisdom is realizing, a wise man ALWAYS has questions. Not answers."
~Alruane |
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Larloch
