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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 06:29:26
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We all know it's coming with the inevitability of Wile Coyote falling off a cliff, so what would you love to see now the city of splendours is a century and more older?
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 09:02:51
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| Well, I imagine the biggest differences will reflect the, what is it 8 books that have happened in and around Waterdeep since the last City of Splendors. Personally, I think they should develop another city instead. |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 12:58:26
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| I dunno if it is an inevitability. We've already had the Neverwinter book and one city-based campaign book may be enough in WotC's view. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 13:18:41
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I owned the original 1e/2e sources, and never bothered to read them. I have no interest in a Waterdeep product (and edition has nothing to do with it). Entire sourcebooks dedicated to a single city is a waste of resources, IMHO.
But I know others like that sort of thing, so whatever. I don't care if they make one, so long as they produce lots of other great stuff. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 13:23:57
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| Indeed. Books about a single city are a waste, unless you can afford to make lots of them which, in turn, are popular enough to sell good numbers. You could go the Paizo route and do a relatively short sourcebook about a city - say, less than 100 pages - I suppose. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 15:12:48
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I never felt connected to Waterdeep, either. I appreciate that many love it, and Elaine's novels set in Waterdeep are great. Undermountain is a great concept, Khelben, etc. but I just don't enjoy the city and hope they don't put a whole sourcebook there for 5th edition either.
So many interesting smaller cities, would love them to do a second half of the Forgotten Realms Adventures 2nd edition type book with many cities in it and a big write up on each. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 15:41:44
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| I wouldn't mind it.. I'd rather see Region books like we saw in 3e then supplemented dedicated to Waterdeep or worse, Neverwinter and Baldur's Gate. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 25 Oct 2013 15:41:57 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 17:16:31
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I would love another Waterdeep sourcebook. I know that it's perhaps the most well-described place in all the Realms, but there's still so much that we don't know -- and that's not even factoring in the timejump and the Spellplague.
A 5E Waterdeep sourcebook would be almost entirely new information, unless they use a multi-era approach for the book -- and given the sheer scope of the City of Splendors, I don't see that working unless the book is the size of the Ptolus book.
Me, I would run to the store on my lunchbreak to get a new Waterdeep book, and I'd be reading it before the end of said lunchbreak. Waterdeep -- and specifically, Volo's Guide to Waterdeep -- is what turned my casual interest in the Realms to a deeper love of the setting. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 18:35:39
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| I think it's safe to assume we will get a 5e sourcebook on Waterdeep (and I'm good with that). However, what I would rather see is something similar to Pathfinder's Towns of the Inner Sea supplement...only done throughout the Realms for various cities/towns. The PF supplement details four towns and each Realms supplement could do the same or better. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 19:17:32
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| For me the problem is NOT that it is a single city sourcebook, it is that there have already been 6 Waterdeep sourcebooks. The only other cities in all of the realms that have had this kind of treatment are Ravensbluff with 4 and Baldur's Gate with 2... (I guess you could say Myth Drannor had 3 as well, but 1 was about ruins, 1 about old cormanthor and one about the war). There are so many cities I'd like to hear about in detail before they do a new waterdeep product. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 19:56:14
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There is always (and I do mean always) going to be tension between "people really like Waterdeep/Cormyr/the Dales" and "we've covered this area enough already" when it comes to products. Waterdeep, certainly, has been covered well in it's pre-Spellplague incarnation, but there's a whole hundred years' worth of changes to implement in its laws, streets, businesses, and compelling NPCs.
In the end, WotC will go with whatever products best serve its business plan and ongoing story goals.
Covering Waterdeep again would not bother me, personally, because I think that there's plenty new there to cover. Covering the City of Splendors at the expense of everywhere else, however, probably would. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 22:53:52
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| I'm cool with another Waterdeep sourcebook. I would love to see something for Sembia though and an update for Cormyr. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 00:03:17
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I don't want WotC to cover Waterdeep in another one and done sourcebook. I want them to over the city for the life of 5E.
What I want is a bi-weekly mini sourcebook of about 20 to 30 pages that focuses on one block in one Ward of Waterdeep, with a black and white cut away map of one or two buildings on that block and a removable overhead map showing the block and naming all the locations on it.
Each sourcebook moves to a different Ward of the city. Once all the Wards are covered, a special sourcebook is released that focuses on other aspects of the city.
Then the cycle repeats itself. Each removable map in the new cycle fits alongside of its predecessor in the same Ward.
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 00:37:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I don't want WotC to cover Waterdeep in another one and done sourcebook. I want them to over the city for the life of 5E.
What I want is a bi-weekly mini sourcebook of about 20 to 30 pages that focuses on one block in one Ward of Waterdeep, with a black and white cut away map of one or two buildings on that block and a removable overhead map showing the block and naming all the locations on it.
Each sourcebook moves to a different Ward of the city. Once all the Wards are covered, a special sourcebook is released that focuses on other aspects of the city.
Then the cycle repeats itself. Each removable map in the new cycle fits alongside of its predecessor in the same Ward.
This would make a good Dragon Mag Article Series idea. Think of a name and pitch it to Ed. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 02:41:37
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WotC is going to publish what will afford them the greatest profit. It's not to suggest the product would be, by default, rubbish. I'm a fan of Drizzt, and despite some not liking the character, he sells very very well. They'll keep asking Bob to write those novel as long as the character is popular.
Waterdeep is no different. WotC has absolutely no incentive to put a lot of time, effort, and money into developing a lesser known city that has not been established as being popular. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 03:41:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
WotC is going to publish what will afford them the greatest profit. It's not to suggest the product would be, by default, rubbish. I'm a fan of Drizzt, and despite some not liking the character, he sells very very well. They'll keep asking Bob to write those novel as long as the character is popular.
Waterdeep is no different. WotC has absolutely no incentive to put a lot of time, effort, and money into developing a lesser known city that has not been established as being popular.
With that in mind I'd propose a Suzail sourcebook... Cormyr is popular enough fodder to have supported dozens of novels and a couple general sourcebooks... time to get down to the nitty gritty i'd say |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 03:47:53
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| The only way to establish a city as popular (or find out if it will be) is to give it some 'face time' with the fans. Business requires risks, albeit calculated risks. Gauging the desires of the fans is part of the calculation...and here is a great chance for WotC to do just that, in our forum...The Peoples Realms. WotC can also poll the fans (as it has in the past). |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 06:53:11
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| Personally I'm really hoping for something like FR Adventures. The gazetteer style entries were great and I'd love to see a similar product detailing the big changes that have happened. |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 10:39:50
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Gah, not something Cormyr or Icenwind Dale, please, it gets so much stagetime in novels.
IŽd advocate Zhentil Keep, rebuilt and a proper view on the Moonsea. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 13:30:36
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I'd have to agree with Lord Bane - we really need a detailed Moonsea regional book (something along the lines of MoM, but with more lore attached).
However, my first choice would go for a detailed Vilhon Reach sourcebook.. but we will never see one, because 5e is really 4e 2.0, and they won't ever cover areas they've already obliterated. 
A Bloodstone/Demon Lands book is also much-needed.
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
WotC is going to publish what will afford them the greatest profit. It's not to suggest the product would be, by default, rubbish. I'm a fan of Drizzt, and despite some not liking the character, he sells very very well. They'll keep asking Bob to write those novel as long as the character is popular.
Waterdeep is no different. WotC has absolutely no incentive to put a lot of time, effort, and money into developing a lesser known city that has not been established as being popular.
Accents, mine.
So, IYO, we will continue to see rehashed regions that have already been covered, rather then anything new, because they don't want to take any risks (like 4e was)?
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Oct 2013 13:34:44 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 14:10:18
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| I was disappointed when I read the original post in this thread... I was excited from the subject, because I thought a new Waterdeep sourcebook had been announced! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 14:12:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'd have to agree with Lord Bane - we really need a detailed Moonsea regional book (something along the lines of MoM, but with more lore attached).
However, my first choice would go for a detailed Vilhon Reach sourcebook.. but we will never see one, because 5e is really 4e 2.0, and they won't ever cover areas they've already obliterated.
A Bloodstone/Demon Lands book is also much-needed.
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
WotC is going to publish what will afford them the greatest profit. It's not to suggest the product would be, by default, rubbish. I'm a fan of Drizzt, and despite some not liking the character, he sells very very well. They'll keep asking Bob to write those novel as long as the character is popular.
Waterdeep is no different. WotC has absolutely no incentive to put a lot of time, effort, and money into developing a lesser known city that has not been established as being popular.
Accents, mine.
So, IYO, we will continue to see rehashed regions that have already been covered, rather then anything new, because they don't want to take any risks (like 4e was)?
But with a century or more of change, nothing will really be a rehash -- every single area is going to have new NPCs, new businesses/establishments, new rulers, etc. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 15:13:54
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I am finding it harder and harder to post on this site. I find myself constantly erasing what I truly want to say and putting in some fairly neutral dribble.
As Matt James pointed-out, we will get what they think we want, based on prior sales, and not what we may truly want, because they have NO IDEA what that is.
So yeah, more Drizzt, Waterdeep, etc... Can't wait to see what thousand-year old Cattie Brie looks like in a few more editions. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 16:08:51
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| screw the west coast... give me some east coast ... I want some info on kara-tur. I mean if wotc is about following the money, how do we not' have any info on the east, with how big a money maker that is for western customers. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 16:56:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I am finding it harder and harder to post on this site. I find myself constantly erasing what I truly want to say and putting in some fairly neutral dribble.
As Matt James pointed-out, we will get what they think we want, based on prior sales, and not what we may truly want, because they have NO IDEA what that is.
So yeah, more Drizzt, Waterdeep, etc... Can't wait to see what thousand-year old Cattie Brie looks like in a few more editions.
They've also been making more of an effort to listen to the fanbase, of late. I'll be the first to decry some of WotC's past actions, but I'm also going to point out that those actions were in the past.
If you're going to continuously hold WotC's past actions against them and not give them a chance to prove themselves going forward, then why bother even looking at new stuff? You're already prejudiced against it -- you're no different than the Realms-haters that WotC blew up the setting trying to cater to.
If you want to prove me wrong, then give WotC a fair chance to prove your pessimism wrong. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 19:37:28
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Getting a sourcebook on Waterdeep is a given, WotC is going to do it (it's just common sense). All I want is for Wizbro to expand on their activities to include areas that never/rarely see any face time. True, with a 100 year time jump everything will be relatively new...but it will all be relatively the same as well (we will just get new names and 100 years of history).
I have no problem with them doing this...just, please, give us new areas and expand the lore that's NDA. It can't be that hard and the money will come in if Wizbro does it right.
And, personally, I think the 'negativity' is well warranted given that a designer basically came it and all but shot down our hopes for truly new content (at least that's how it seemed to me). It's not 'holding the past against them' so much as going forward with eyes open given both past decisions AND the statement that sparked the negativity.
For the record, I'm still hopeful that Wizbro will come through this time. But, IMO, the only way they are going to 'do it right' is to listen to Ed very closely.
Cheers. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 21:29:20
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I just want to point out one thing, then i'll bow out of this thread, apologies in advance if i result too abrasive.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If you're going to continuously hold WotC's past actions against them
Continuously?
We are talking about the first edition since the 4th, the wounds are still fresh, the memories are still vivid and part of the community has just now started to "get over it".
You can bet whatever you want that a lot of people are watching closely the actions of WOTC and will pass harsh judgement on those same actions. This is not a threat, this should be one of the best motivations for WOTC's designers and authors.
By all means, give us more City of Splendors, Cormyr and Dales, but please, for the love of all that's Realms, give us more than a taste of everything else too. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 23:19:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
I just want to point out one thing, then i'll bow out of this thread, apologies in advance if i result too abrasive.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If you're going to continuously hold WotC's past actions against them
Continuously?
We are talking about the first edition since the 4th, the wounds are still fresh, the memories are still vivid and part of the community has just now started to "get over it".
Ah, but that's the thing: some people are not trying to get over it, and insist on portraying everything imaginable in the most negative light possible. And when someone is doing that, they are not giving WotC a fair chance to try to do the right thing.
Why should WotC even try to reach out to someone who is determined to not give them a chance? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2013 : 01:15:47
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Yes indeed it will be interesting the concept of supporting all Editions.
As my tag in WotC Forum reads.
Plans, however are subject to change (or words to that effect)
Mostly had it because DDI clearly did not work out as initial plans and time lines were set out.
For now we need to see how close a plan announce is followed or changed.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Yet Another Waterdeep Sourcebook.....
