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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 13:50:22
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Hi scribes, so I have questions needling at me. We all know that planar binding and gate spells bring the outsider you want to where you are. The outsider so "called" is real and physical and can truly die the "true death" if killed.
Fluff/lore wise, its easy to explain you call this creature physically. What im having trouble rationalizing in terms of lore is the summon monster spells.
Does the creature you summon gets pulled from where it is physically and truly?
Does killing a summoned monster truly kill it?
When it dies, does it simply reform?
Is the summon spell merely summoning a copy of a creature, sort of like an "example" or "model" of the summons you want?
Any answers would be appreciated.
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Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 22:01:25
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2E Planescape lore provides a possible answer:
Planars (that is, creatures who are native to the planes) have an innate "racial" ability to sense planar things. They can sense planar boundaries, conduits, portals, vortices, rifts, things which blur or cross the lines between different planes of existence. They can often also sense manifestations of contact other plane, gate, scrying and summoning magics - and many deliberately choose to avoid or ignore these things, leaving such stuff alone for the next random berk who's foolish enough to bump into it. Some of these may choose (or be unable to avoid) responding to a magical summons. A downside of planar origins is high susceptibility to summonings and bindings and banishments which would never affect a Prime.
Petitioners are similar to Planars, but actually not "alive" in the usual sense, they tend to be creatures who've died and actually continue to exist on the planes in some sort of semi-eternal afterlife. Perhaps they might return/continue as if little happened after being "killed" while serving a summons. Imagine a band of Arcadian fighters feeling morally and ethically compelled to dutifully assist wizards in need, or a clutch of tormented souls desperately doing anything to escape Pandemonium (even if only for a few moments), or a squad of orc shock troopers from Acheron who understand the summoner is now part of their command chain.
Primes (that is, creatures who are native to a Prime Material world, such as the Realms) lack these extraplanar perceptions. They are truly clueless and blind to these special environmental conditions. They would hardly even know where a gate goes until somebody (or something) blunders through. The great thing about being a Prime is that one is firmly anchored to the Prime, largely immune to magics which manipulate supernatural destinies.
So short answer: these creatures could be "disposable" travellers pulled away from their daily existence. Presumably they return whenever they're done. You could even say they come from a place of Dreams, as far as they can tell they had a dream of being summoned, maybe they dissolve back into dreamstuff, maybe they just awaken to reality - who's to say?
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I recall some old adventures wherein PCs got caught up in monster summoning magics. They pass through a doorway or something then suddenly they're standing in the middle of something interesting, obeying whatever orders are given to them by a strange wizard. Sometimes this involves combat, sometimes they're just told to guard something for a while, or clean up the campsite, create a diversion, even open a locked one-way door from the other side.
Gygax-era gaming was big on nonsensical ad-hoc excuses for instant immersion into adventure. Events didn't really have to be dogmatically consistent with what was written in vast libraries of canonical lore, they just had to be halfway plausible (in a world filled with fantasy and magic), immediate, engaging, rewarding, and fun. This (along with "superhero" magic-user units capable of bringing instant reinforcements into ancient wargaming battles) was the origin of D&D's classic monster summoning spells. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 05 Oct 2013 22:17:52 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 22:34:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Hi scribes, so I have questions needling at me. We all know that planar binding and gate spells bring the outsider you want to where you are. The outsider so "called" is real and physical and can truly die the "true death" if killed.
Fluff/lore wise, its easy to explain you call this creature physically. What im having trouble rationalizing in terms of lore is the summon monster spells.
Does the creature you summon gets pulled from where it is physically and truly?
Does killing a summoned monster truly kill it?
When it dies, does it simply reform?
Is the summon spell merely summoning a copy of a creature, sort of like an "example" or "model" of the summons you want?
Any answers would be appreciated.
Considering that most Monster Summoning spells in AD&D had the "conjuration" and "summoning" attributes, I've always tended to view these spells as temporarily generating a magical "copy" of something real. It might duplicate a creature in a magical sense, but the thing is actually made up from the building blocks of magic rather than being pulled in from a real location somewhere. Death is more of a breakdown of their magical matrix than the real death of an actual creature.
Demons, devils, and celestials, though, they are pulled through some kind of magical gate. Technically, they're made up of the "stuff" of their origin plane, but they are physically drawn from their plane into the Prime. Usually temporarily, and at the end of the duration they'd be sucked back to wherever they came from.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12082 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2013 : 00:31:12
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| I've always pictured it as summoning spells that don't bodily bring them to you effectively bring them to you with the equivalent of a silver cord. They die, they go back home, thus they would view it as a means to temporarily have a bit of fun without worry of being killed. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Summon,Planar Binding and Gate
