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Bhaal
Acolyte
22 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 19:13:11
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Now that I'm back, how will you plan to use the Lord of Murder in your games?
Will you have a game set in the Age of Upheaval, with lots of murders happening in Baldur's Gate? Will you wait until the Age of Upheaval is over and things have settled into a more peaceful state with gods that are more distant?
And perhaps most important of all, should I murder that tool Cyric? Or make him my slave, a lesser demi-power? 
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 19:34:37
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| Well, I will kill him again *wink* |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 22:49:19
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| Good thing your just the god of murder, most the other gods do a much better job having followers that actually kill things |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 22:50:56
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| Bhaal‘s presence almost demands the inclusion of a PC assassin class. Hopefully a decent specialist, as it was back in AD&D (1E). Hopefully not a fits-the-new-template like, say, the 2E versions of bard and monk subclasses which lost much of their 1E-era flavour and uniqueness. Not many of my players were ever particularly concerned about being targeted by a 2E assassin, yet they greatly feared and respected being targeted in 1E. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Bhaal
Acolyte
22 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 23:12:42
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Good thing your just the god of murder, most the other gods do a much better job having followers that actually kill things
Fear clings to you like the stench of a charnel house.
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Bhaal
Acolyte
22 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 23:15:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Bhaal‘s presence almost demands the inclusion of a PC assassin class. Hopefully a decent specialist, as it was back in AD&D (1E). Hopefully not a fits-the-new-template like, say, the 2E versions of bard and monk subclasses which lost much of their 1E-era flavour and uniqueness. Not many of my players were ever particularly concerned about being targeted by a 2E assassin, yet they greatly feared and respected being targeted in 1E.
Indeed! While most assassins don't need a class per se, it's always nice to have crunchy options.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 23:22:24
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Wasn‘t there a little conflict between Tempus and Talos, both claiming dominion over the lesser portfolio of Violent Death? Or maybe it was Sudden Death? Either way, this seems like the sort of thing which should interest the god of murder and assassins.
I wonder if a god of murder could assassinate another god? And for what sort of payment? To my knowledge, the only gods who have accomplished this are Shar, Mask, Talos, Tempus, perhaps Bane, and useless little Cyric. Of these, unbelievably, only Cyric behaved in proper accordance with his divine mandate. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 05 Oct 2013 00:40:17 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1882 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 23:42:15
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| Bhaal, along with all of the other gods, is going to take a more mysterious/backseat (not-in-your-face) role in my campaign. I much prefer they be objects of faith, worship, awe, and fear than beings who essentially act like 'supers' in the world. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 03:38:18
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| I'm staying with the 4E Realms - no more RSEs for me ever again unless I cause them - but Bhaal has already started making his play within the Zhentarim. I don't know whether the end result will be his return and Cyric's complete banishment or simply more disappointment for [Undercover Blues]Morty[/Undercover Blues]. |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 04:16:29
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I won't. I think he's redundant and better off dead.
I've got no problem with a deity having the portfolio of murder, but I don't think that should be the only thing they have. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 13:26:40
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| Bhaal seeking to murder Cyric. Divine drama unfolds. Main cast Bhaal and Cyric, former one aided by Bane and as suprise act Myrkul. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 14:59:14
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Because of the way that the Companions and Godborn have developed, I am seriously considering putting my home Realms (actively developed since "Old Gray Box") on hiatus and trying out the 5E Realms when it launches. Still have to wait for the rest of the novels to come out, of course, and then it's not certain when a 5E Realms guide will get published - probably late 2014 at the earliest, I'd guess.
But I've been -very- pleasantly surprised by the novels and things like Murder in Baldur's Gate and Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle. At minimum, I might just fast-forward my own Realms to the current age. But they're doing a lot of things that I'm liking right now. One of which is the return of the unreliable narrator. Another is an insight in how gods/ascension works with portfolios (e.g. see the end of Godborn... no spoilers here). A third is the promise that Spellplague will be reduced (and they made good on that). A fourth is the promise that gods will eventually become more distant and RSEs will tone down.
So from my perspective, WotC is delivering on the Realms. Slowly, and organically through the narrative/novel process, and that's how things should be done IMO. So WotC is going to get my support. That might mean updating my own Realms to the current era, or it might mean fully adopting 5E Realms with all the 4E warts. Even at this somewhat early point, they've done enough to win me back as a customer.
Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul will be featured in my future games. 
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Neo2151
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 15:16:25
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Bhaal? Psh, please. I'd rather bring back Jergal. ;)
•••••••
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Bhaal, along with all of the other gods, is going to take a more mysterious/backseat (not-in-your-face) role in my campaign. I much prefer they be objects of faith, worship, awe, and fear than beings who essentially act like 'supers' in the world.
Ya know, I was watching the Gencon FR panel on youtube, and I heard Mr. Greenwood discussing just this - that the gods were never supposed to be as "in your face" as they became.
And then I couldn't help but think, "But wait, isn't this the guy who, more than any other FR author I can think of, has had his characters in face-to-face situations with the Gods? The guy who had a character have a romantic relationship with the goddess of magic? Etc.?"
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"Come looking for me, and I will blast you to dust, and then lay waste to all your descendants, ancestors, and the realm you came from, every last tree and stone of it. Why? Well, it's what I usually do."
-Baerendra Riverhand on The Story of Spellfire |
Edited by - Neo2151 on 05 Oct 2013 15:25:38 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 15:26:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Neo2151
Ya know, I was watching the Gencon FR panel on youtube, and I heard Mr. Greenwood discussing just this - that the gods were never supposed to be as prolific and "in your face" as they became.
And then I couldn't help but think, "But wait, isn't this the guy who, more than any other FR author I can think of, has had his characters in face-to-face situations with the Gods? The guy who had a character have a romantic relationship with the goddess of magic? Etc.?"
Well, yes and no. Ed's home game tended to have the deities much more behind the scenes, 99% of the time. A flash of rose-colored light on an altar, or a catching sight of a unicorn in the forest, things like that were common - for PCs. Not for everyday commoners, though. Did the gods walk Faerun sometimes? Yes, perhaps. Did some gods have relationships with NPCs? Yes, sometimes, perhaps. But typically those were "reveals" after the fact, or assumptions and beliefs by other NPCs (which may have been true, or not) rather than making them "in-your-face" DMPCs or full-on novel characters. Was a goddess truly incarnated as a serving wench in an Inn? Well, that's up to your DM. Perhaps it was real, or perhaps your PC had a little too much Amnian pipeweed that night.
Also, how people perceive the Chosen is critical, particularly their extremely high-powered novel activities during late 2E and early 3E. Those novels were rather popular, but they also were extremely "epic level" and pulled massively far away from the day-to-day Realms.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 05 Oct 2013 15:31:41 |
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Neo2151
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 19:25:29
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Ah, but Ed's home games aren't how the majority of the world gets to perceive the Realms; It's his novels that most people know, and those are the culprits.  |
"Come looking for me, and I will blast you to dust, and then lay waste to all your descendants, ancestors, and the realm you came from, every last tree and stone of it. Why? Well, it's what I usually do."
-Baerendra Riverhand on The Story of Spellfire |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 21:55:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Neo2151
Ah, but Ed's home games aren't how the majority of the world gets to perceive the Realms; It's his novels that most people know, and those are the culprits.
Audience perception of a few popular novels isn't any kind of evidence of personal hypocrisy, though. Have you read everything he's written? I suspect you're thinking of a rather small subset of his Elminster and Chosen novels.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 22:51:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Neo2151
Bhaal? Psh, please. I'd rather bring back Jergal. ;)
•••••••
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Bhaal, along with all of the other gods, is going to take a more mysterious/backseat (not-in-your-face) role in my campaign. I much prefer they be objects of faith, worship, awe, and fear than beings who essentially act like 'supers' in the world.
Ya know, I was watching the Gencon FR panel on youtube, and I heard Mr. Greenwood discussing just this - that the gods were never supposed to be as "in your face" as they became.
And then I couldn't help but think, "But wait, isn't this the guy who, more than any other FR author I can think of, has had his characters in face-to-face situations with the Gods? The guy who had a character have a romantic relationship with the goddess of magic? Etc.?"
I dunno, I think Troy Denning has had his characters in more face-to-face situations with deities than Ed has. Heck, Malik attended a meeting of the gods -- I didn't see Elminster there.
Heck, even Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak have put characters in face-to-face situations with their gods; Holly Harrowslough and Joel the Rebel Bard have spoken with multiple deities at once.
Elminster may see his goddess more oft than other characters, but Ed was not the first to have his characters face-to-face with divinity, and he's not been the worst. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2013 : 00:17:08
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| Mass murder throughout the Realms to apease you oh Lord of Murder. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12082 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2013 : 00:35:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Wasn‘t there a little conflict between Tempus and Talos, both claiming dominion over the lesser portfolio of Violent Death? Or maybe it was Sudden Death? Either way, this seems like the sort of thing which should interest the god of murder and assassins.
I wonder if a god of murder could assassinate another god? And for what sort of payment? To my knowledge, the only gods who have accomplished this are Shar, Mask, Talos, Tempus, perhaps Bane, and useless little Cyric. Of these, unbelievably, only Cyric behaved in proper accordance with his divine mandate.
Mask created intrigue, Talos caused destruction, etc... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2013 : 01:18:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Neo2151
"But wait, isn't this the guy who, more than any other FR author I can think of, has had his characters in face-to-face situations with the Gods? The guy who had a character have a romantic relationship with the goddess of magic? Etc.?"
At first it seems counterintuitive, doesn't it?
They key lay in understanding that if Ed had been responsible all these years for plotting the course of the Realms and deciding which characters would receive attention in novels, then no, the deities of the Realms wouldn't have been so much at the forefront as they have been.
But since Ed has never had that power or responsibility, he's had to write what other people--i.e. his bosses at TSR and later WotC--wanted, which meant a focus on the likes of Elminster and the other divine go-betweens in the Realms.
*******
Regarding Bhaal: I'm not running a Realms campaign right now, but I hope to include priests and worshipers of Bhaal in future NPC writeups.
I hope to see more of Bhaal in future Realms novels too. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 06 Oct 2013 01:20:23 |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2013 : 07:40:33
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| I think Bhaal should definitely kill Cyric. While I've never been fond of the Lord of Murder, I like the Prince of Lies even less (if there's any god that deserves to be assassinated, IMHO, it's Cyric). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2013 : 14:24:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Drustan Dwnhaedan
I think Bhaal should definitely kill Cyric. While I've never been fond of the Lord of Murder, I like the Prince of Lies even less (if there's any god that deserves to be assassinated, IMHO, it's Cyric).
I'd be happier if they killed off each other. Or if the survivor was weakened enough to be immediately picked off by someone else, like Mask. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2013 : 14:48:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Drustan Dwnhaedan
I think Bhaal should definitely kill Cyric. While I've never been fond of the Lord of Murder, I like the Prince of Lies even less (if there's any god that deserves to be assassinated, IMHO, it's Cyric).
I'd be happier if they killed off each other. Or if the survivor was weakened enough to be immediately picked off by someone else, like Mask.
I wouldn't want Mask to be a god of murder, though. Especially considering recent events in Godborn. Bhaal is definitely back and has the portfolio of death with murder, and I'd find it -very- odd if they just get rid of him again. So that makes Cyric extremely redundant. What portfolios does he have left? Intrigue? Deception (illusion~lies)?
If portfolios can't be shared, and because Mask really does need the portfolio of intrigue back, it's Cyric that should be reduced to mortality - or killed outright. I have zero interest in Cyric as a replacement for Leira. I'd prefer Leira as the goddess of deception and illusion. Cyric's soul should go to Shar's domain, sealing the deal on getting rid of him permanently.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Let's play Bhaal!
