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Pluddon
Seeker
57 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Sep 2013 : 16:58:16
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I was wondering what type of lycanthrope a half lungs and gnomes may commonly be afflicted with. I find the idea of a 3 foot tall werebear a little unfitting.
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1882 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2013 : 17:57:25
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Lycanthropy woudn't be limited by 'size' so a halfling werebearcub would be possilbe.
Oh, and I would think halfling wererats would be most common (there is a large population of them in Calimshan). |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
Edited by - The Arcanamach on 29 Sep 2013 18:00:03 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2013 : 18:17:07
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I remember a weremole gnome (I think) form somewhere... maybe Shining South...
I have a very dim recollection of others - gnome and halfling lycanthropes, but those are probably not from FR.
Across the board, over the years, in many different D&D (and other RPG) sources I get the impression that each race has its own specific lycanthrope-types... but I could be wrong. However, ti could just be that the 'disease' (if we consider it a normal type of physical disease) could mutate when it spreads across the humanoids, so a halfling or gnome who gets a dose of werewolf may become a werefox instead, etc. The specific animal type would change, but the genus would remain constant.
I wonder if a brownie would become a Were-Chihuahua... vicious little monsters...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2013 : 18:22:11
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| I would think werebadgers, werecats (based off of house cats), wererats (using the stats of regular rats rather than dire rats), and werewolverines would be fairly common. Of course, if you have a gamer nagging you about it (as my DM did once), and you want to shut them up, just suggest a form of lycanthropy unique to halflings and gnomes; werehamsters. Er, sorry, halfling and gnome fans. But it did end that gamer's obsession with the matter (which I never understood, as the person in question only played dwarven, human, and half-human characters). |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2013 : 18:41:27
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So, I have to wonder....
If Elves back in the day (tens of thousands of years ago) considered humans 'animals', would an Elven 'were-human' have been possible? Picture a gold Elf aristocrat turning into a caveman.
Or an Orc?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4213 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2013 : 18:50:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So, I have to wonder....
If Elves back in the day (tens of thousands of years ago) considered humans 'animals', would an Elven 'were-human' have been possible? Picture a gold Elf aristocrat turning into a caveman.
Or an Orc?
Only you MT...only you.  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2013 : 20:52:22
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| According the the great 2e book Van Richten's Guide to Werebeasts, which is pretty much the definitive work on the subject, halflings and gnomes are vulnerable to all kinds of lycanthropy. Some races (ie: drow) have small to medium resistance to all but particular kinds of lycanthropes, but gnomes and halflings can be infected by all of them. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2013 : 21:49:54
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I think logic dictates that size plays a part. Either (A) races are only vulnerable to lycanthropy spread by animals within a size category or two of them, or (B) any humanoid race (plus giants) can be afflicted with lycanthropy from any source, but their hybrid and animal forms will be within one size category of their humanoid form.
Option B will result in ludicrous cases like a Small-sized full-grown brown bear or a Huge-sized badger, which can be a tip-off for any PC or NPC familiar with lycanthropes. Not that there's anything wrong with tip-offs or that there can't be bigger or smaller versions of animals, but these individuals will be killed off in greater numbers than their less conspicuous peers, resulting in a sort of survival of the fittest.
The sticking point is the hybrid form. Do you have a Large halfling with normal bear features, or do you have a normal halfling with Small bear features? If it's the latter, then you have to figure out stats for a pygmy brown bear because the monster's HD and attack stats demands it. So you're creating a new monster, and that's cool but it's extra work, especially since you have to figure out a habitat for it... normal brown bears would exterminate pygmy brown bears so they can't share space. Complicated.
For myself, I house-ruled a compromise: any humanoid/giant can contract lycanthropy, and the hybrid animal forms will be within one size category of the humanoid form (as B) but it's only passed on to offspring (true/natural lycanthropes) if the humanoid form and natural animal form are within one size category. So an afflicted halfling brown werebear is possible, but not a natural halfling brown werebear (unless a pygmy brown bear exists naturally in the game) because a natural brown werebear's humanoid form would be Medium/Large/Huge.
So in my games, gnome and halfling natural lycanthropes would have animal forms that are Tiny/Small/Medium.
Just my solution. It's a limitation, and I'm normally against limitations, but I think it's important to make certain monsters less conspicuous in order to justify their existence. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2013 : 22:06:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I remember a weremole gnome (I think) form somewhere...
Weremoles are mentioned in Mintiper's Chapbook, with a footnote blaming them on Urdlen and referring us to Demihuman Deities. They're detailed in volume 1 of Messrs Boyd & Costa's Realms Bestiary. And if you're remembering a group of gnome weremoles then they are perhaps the Blood Screamers... "savage gnome dire weremoles" on pg 99 of Serpent Kingdoms.
Just polishing up my Realmslore nerdhood. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2013 : 22:20:17
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One thought, halflings at one time were just small humans. I know this has changed over editions.
There also was "Minimal Mammals" which were "Minimals are half-sized breeds of otherwise normal animals."
It could follow a halfling or gnome were bear could exist. *G* The were bear being half the size of one made from taller stock. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2013 : 00:13:52
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 I had forgotten about the minimals! *sigh* Thanks for the extra work, Kentinal. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2013 : 00:54:44
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Lycanthropes are supposed to be intelligent, at least most of the time.
So I can‘t really see why they would bother wasting their time with halfling vermin, and it seems obvious no halfling could survive being bitten, let alone manage to escape, unless it was deliberately allowed to do so. Halflings might make good half-meals for a starved werebeast, that‘s about it. |
[/Ayrik] |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2013 : 01:05:47
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Lycanthropes are more often connected with madness and insanity than they are with calculated plans or deliberation.
Touché, regarding the halflings' chances of surviving/escaping a hungry bite, but mad beasts can be distracted, or pinned by falling timbers, or trapped in pits while chasing blinking/dimensiondooring (or even illusionary) prey. A halfling could get nicked/scratched, and live to tell the tale. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12082 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2013 : 01:59:52
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| were-jackalopes, were-al-mi'raj (rabbit with unicorn horn) for halflings |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2013 : 02:25:08
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| I have seen a lot of halflings as wererats in various modules including the Realms. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2013 : 07:32:26
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
were-jackalopes, were-al-mi'raj (rabbit with unicorn horn) for halflings
Are there actually stats for jackalopes in D&D? And if there are, where can I find them? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2013 : 13:23:42
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Jackalopes:
You can probably find them in an old Dragon magazine, but Pathfinder has an OGL one. The next bestiary will have the Al-mi'rag.
IMG, I would do the 'alternate species' thing, so a halfling bitten by a weretiger would become something like a lynx or Bobcat, etc. On the other hand, fantasy-versions of animals may be more appropriate (I am picturing a cat-like, cave-dwelling, thick-bodied critter for a dwarf).
And it was the Dire Weremoles I was thinking of, xaeyruudh. For some reason, I always get info in SK mixed-up with stuff from SS. 
IIRC, SS has the vampire gnome and the hill-giant dire wereape (so WE had Mighty Joe Young long before Pathfinder had Gorilla Grodd).
I do so love my Primates... what were we talking about again?
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2013 : 14:03:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Pluddon
I find the idea of a 3 foot tall werebear a little unfitting.
It's Pooh-Bear! How deliciously villainous!
"This could be the end of everything
So why don't we go
Somewhere only we know?"
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I wonder if a brownie would become a Were-Chihuahua... vicious little monsters...
*Grrr* ¡Yo quiero Waterdeep!
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
So I can‘t really see why they would bother wasting their time with halfling vermin, and it seems obvious no halfling could survive being bitten, let alone manage to escape, unless it was deliberately allowed to do so. Halflings might make good half-meals for a starved werebeast, that‘s about it.
The halfling thieves of Calimport are said to pass for child beggars. Unsuspecting visitors to town can hardly turn down teary-eyed children, so the halflings have quite a racket going.
In The Halfling's Gem, the former thieves guild leader and wererat Rassiter welcomed the halfling Dondon into the guild and infected group. Apparently, this both served the financial interests of the guild and helped spread the disease, which Rassiter was all for. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2013 : 18:48:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I wonder if a brownie would become a Were-Chihuahua... vicious little monsters...
would look like a pugwampi |
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portose_sharpe
Seeker
Ireland
74 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 00:31:03
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| i would say they could be affect by any of them, since they would no longer be the race they are, and are moved to "shifter", and that would suite any size since your "change" your form, like a human wizard casting shapechange and turning into a much larger creature. |
Edited by - portose_sharpe on 04 Oct 2013 00:32:53 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 22:44:25
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Well, there must be functional limits.
The slight stature (and general nature) of halflings might be compatible with were-rats and were-wolves, rats and wolves being Tiny and Small ... but I‘d have trouble imagining a halfling were-kraken.
Then again, dragons can shapechange from massive creatures to human-size or smaller. Dopplegangers can only assume generally human/demihuman sizes (at least as of 2E). Succubi (in 2E) can only polymorph into human-sized forms. It really depends on how you want to play lycanthrope abilities. |
[/Ayrik] |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 23:09:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Then again, dragons can shapechange from massive creatures to human-size or smaller.
I guess the Bayan Cybertronian All-Spark exists on Toril, as well. It's like a gun or a mini-cassette recorder unfolding into a 60-foot-tall robot.  |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 13:52:22
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Can any demi-human (and humanoid for that matter) be infected with lycanthropy?
Do we have any known cases of Elven Lycanthropy (NOT lythari or some sort of Loup Garou)?
What would happen if a person was a Yuan-ti? Would it matter which 'alteration' came first (for template stacking, I'm assuming)?
I've always been a 'crunch light' DM, making this stuff up on-the-fly. Rules-issues are my blind-spot, unfortunately, so I would like to know what the RAW is in these cases. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Oct 2013 13:54:25 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 14:01:38
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Well looking at 3.5 SRD (because it is easiest to copy I offer this. quote:
Lycanthropes are humanoids or giants who can transform themselves into animals.
and this quote:
Humanoid Type
A humanoid usually has two arms, two legs, and one head, or a humanlike torso, arms, and a head. Humanoids have few or no supernatural or extraordinary abilities, but most can speak and usually have well-developed societies. They usually are Small or Medium. Every humanoid creature also has a subtype.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2013 : 16:13:47
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Why aren't giants simply a subtype of humanoid? Thats weird... but way off-topic.
So do we have any canon elven lycanthropes? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Were-halfling?
