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Andrekan
Seeker
65 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 20:06:22
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With the return of the Weave, Spell scars no longer work and Arcane Spell casting returns to the old style. Will there be a rush of Arcane users searching for old tomes, spell books, and seeking out the Elves or longer lived races (Dragons?) in hopes to retain their Arcane power. Will academies of magic waver only a short while before discovering the subtle changes to casting or will many close and new ones reopen? Will new powers arise with the techniques of the time before Spellplague? It will effect all of Toril. What are your thoughts? This is a Sundering Topic of course and it is upon the Realms, now. Or should we just sit back and watch it all unfold? Perhaps there are some place or things that will hold important "Canon" lore that will return or should.
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"Those two talk only of drink, riches, women, brawling, and magic, so ye've a one in five chance..." Quote from "Elminster in Hell" |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 21:51:20
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For me the spellscars and even minor spellplague areas will remain, as I have treated them like a variation of the wildmagic and dead magic areas. That and spellscars finally gave me a way of adding in dragonmarks.
I also hope that they will continue with the rituals, but from the play test material nothing has appeared thus far.
From the play test material, magic still feals kinda like 4e but with a shift back to 3.5e (almost Pathfinder-esque) with a few new tweeks thrown in. So all and all I think the transition should be a rather smooth one and there will a rush to reclaim the power of old as the threads of magic realign. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 23:24:04
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Perhaps off-topic (sorry) ... but did anything similar to spellscars exist prior to post-Mystra 4E lore? Wild magic (and wild magic zones, wild magic storms, etc) has certainly existed since ye olde 2E Realms circa 1358DR, it may have existed in “pre-1E“ Realms after Netheril‘s fall (and Mystryl‘s death) as well.
There are also plenty of examples in Realmslore of characters, objects, places, and even entire races being somehow touched or changed by proximity to strange magic in wondrous and unpredictable ways, although I suppose many of these are arguably unique in their origins.
I don‘t overlook the wanton meddling of deities (and fiends) as well, at least in regards to their chosen servitors/agents/victims.
Perhaps things like gypsy curses, lycanthropy, vampirism, psionics, spellfire, and owlbears are all remnants of ancient “spellscars“. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 23:41:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Perhaps off-topic (sorry) ... but did anything similar to spellscars exist prior to post-Mystra 4E lore? Wild magic (and wild magic zones, wild magic storms, etc) has certainly existed since ye olde 2E Realms circa 1358DR, it may have existed in “pre-1E“ Realms after Netheril‘s fall (and Mystryl‘s death) as well.
There are also plenty of examples in Realmslore of characters, objects, places, and even entire races being somehow touched or changed by proximity to strange magic in wondrous and unpredictable ways, although I suppose many of these are arguably unique in their origins.
I don‘t overlook the wanton meddling of deities (and fiends) as well, at least in regards to their chosen servitors/agents/victims.
Perhaps things like gypsy curses, lycanthropy, vampirism, psionics, spellfire, and owlbears are all remnants of ancient “spellscars“.
I really like that take...essentially things that bred true. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 23:50:08
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| Supernatural selection, I suppose. Survival of the mysterious. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 00:50:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Andrekan
With the return of the Weave, Spell scars no longer work and Arcane Spell casting returns to the old style. Will there be a rush of Arcane users searching for old tomes, spell books, and seeking out the Elves or longer lived races (Dragons?) in hopes to retain their Arcane power. Will academies of magic waver only a short while before discovering the subtle changes to casting or will many close and new ones reopen? Will new powers arise with the techniques of the time before Spellplague? It will effect all of Toril. What are your thoughts? This is a Sundering Topic of course and it is upon the Realms, now. Or should we just sit back and watch it all unfold? Perhaps there are some place or things that will hold important "Canon" lore that will return or should.
Well, casters adapted after the Spellplague, post Sundering will be even easier because the knowledge is already out there (unless the SP completely burned all magic tomes, Idk). Long lived races will have a huge advantage (many of their casters won't need to learn anything, as they already know how to Weave-cast spells), so they might try to capitalize on it and expand their influence (Myth Drannor, the Netherese -even more so if we assume that the Shadow Weave is going to be restored too-, the drow -even tho they're too weakened by their n-th failure in trying to conquer the world- and so on). Maybe the war that Netheril is going to start during the Sundering is an attempt to take advantage of this situation. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 14 Aug 2013 00:51:44 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 03:42:15
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| In the novel its more of a merger of the old way of spellcasting and new, so the transition should be easier then right after the spell plague. Still the more info on the old ways of magic one has the easier that transition will be. I don't believe it will leave any wizards powerless like the spell plague did. In fact some may find they can cast spells again. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 04:27:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Andrekan
With the return of the Weave, Spell scars no longer work and Arcane Spell casting returns to the old style. Will there be a rush of Arcane users searching for old tomes, spell books, and seeking out the Elves or longer lived races (Dragons?) in hopes to retain their Arcane power. Will academies of magic waver only a short while before discovering the subtle changes to casting or will many close and new ones reopen? Will new powers arise with the techniques of the time before Spellplague? It will effect all of Toril. What are your thoughts? This is a Sundering Topic of course and it is upon the Realms, now. Or should we just sit back and watch it all unfold? Perhaps there are some place or things that will hold important "Canon" lore that will return or should.
To me there was never a canon reason WHY magic had to change from the old style (v3.5 and prior) to the new style (4E) because AFAIK spell-slots, spell levels, and magic in general was never clearly defined in the setting's narrative. Oh sure, wizards used spellbooks and cast spells from memory which to me suggested the use of Vancian magic that was the basis for D&D's system but no FR books I read called out the level of any spell or referred to ANY gamist terms such as spell points or spell slots.
Thus most long lived spellcasters shouldn't have any sort of upperhand because magic still functions in much of the same way post-Spellplague. For example, wizards still memorize spells from their spellbooks (just as they've had to do in every single edition) and magic is still as stable as it was when the effects of the Spellplague wore off and people developed these "new" techniques.
I do question how things like Shadow magic are going to work because prior to 4E there was a separation between weave-based magic and shadow magic and the distinction wasn't very clear to me. For example, a weave-based wizard casting Shadow Plane or Summoning Shadows IMO would be touching or drawing on a bit of the Shadow Weave to accomplish these tasks but it wasn't really the case. A weave-based caster could do practically whatever he wanted so long as the spell was in the Wizard's spell list, Shadow descriptor or no. But in 4E it was simplified a bit in that one drew power from the Arcane while another drew power from Shadow and there was zero cross-over because power sources never shared spell descriptions or effects. Will this revert back to the muddled way? And how are people who were drawing on the shadow source going to be effected now that magic has changed within the core of D&D? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 06:25:58
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| I honestly hope they get rid of the Shadow Weave for 5E. I always thought it was kind of an awkward, bolted-on thing, and the fact that they never could work out all the details really says something about the development of it. Multiple sources contradicted each other, and I believe it was right after the Shadowdale module came out that Rich Baker said that what was in there on the Shadow Weave was incorrect. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 22:27:41
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This is why the 100 year time jump was a terrible idea. Realistically, any smart mage is going to consider casting through the Weave to be too risky. Gods have been dying left and right, and if Mystra dies again, they will be left powerless. Mystra's also not going to have the worship she once did. Her worship came from average Realms folk believing she WAS magic; that she was the source of all the miraculous creations of wizards and sorcerers.
If Mystra had come back within a few years, after the Spellplague had ravaged Faerun, she would have had more worshippers. She would have been seen as saving the world from its likely destruction. But now people see that she's not necessary at all. The best way to rally people around her is by killing Shar. Then she'll be a great hero who saved Toril from certain annihilation. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 16:01:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I honestly hope they get rid of the Shadow Weave for 5E. I always thought it was kind of an awkward, bolted-on thing, and the fact that they never could work out all the details really says something about the development of it. Multiple sources contradicted each other, and I believe it was right after the Shadowdale module came out that Rich Baker said that what was in there on the Shadow Weave was incorrect.
I believe it won't come back. Casters will probably continue to work just as they always have and the weave will fuel spells that bring about shadows and the like. Currently there are no Shadow-like spells in the Playtest packet but I'm sure that'll change once they get closer to finalizing the product. |
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Alenis
Acolyte
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2013 : 00:13:02
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| I concur that the Shadow Weave should go away during this 5E transition; I never found the way it was described to really make much sense to me. All in all, I hope that the Shadow Weave either gets destroyed permanently, or somehow is incorporated into the Weave under the re-constituted Mystras control (which would be a bad day for the Shadow-magic using, Shar-worshipping Netherese). |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2013 : 18:44:47
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I don't see why one has to get rid of spellscars. I think WotC should have spellscars remain, though they might become very, very rare. Some creatures have adapted to them such that their survival depends on their function. And there might be no way (or diminishing ways) to get a new spellscar.
I liken it to people sticking with Walkmans even though CD players are coming out.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2013 : 19:27:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I don't see why one has to get rid of spellscars. I think WotC should have spellscars remain, though they might become very, very rare. Some creatures have adapted to them such that their survival depends on their function. And there might be no way (or diminishing ways) to get a new spellscar.
I liken it to people sticking with Walkmans even though CD players are coming out.
Cheers
I'm not a fan of spellscars, but I have to agree: I don't see a reason to get rid of them. I'd make them quite rare, but I'd not get rid of them entirely.
The only reason I can see for getting rid of them would be resetting the entire Weave to its pre-ToT status, with no wild or dead magic areas. In that case, I'd still have spellscars on those that had them before, but there wouldn't be new ones after that, unless they became hereditary, like dragonmarks. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2013 : 19:59:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Perhaps off-topic (sorry) ... but did anything similar to spellscars exist prior to post-Mystra 4E lore?
Absolutely, yes. Even in 1E, Greenwood had "wild talents" for certain characters. And as you also mentioned, later in 2E there were wild magic effects, special artifacts and "items of a lost age" that could bestow either limited or permanent powers.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 00:01:15
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| If you ask me, Spellscars were an attempt to lure in the Eberron crowd. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 01:00:06
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| With all of the 4e changes, spellscars (while yes very similar to dragonmarks, they did give me a way to introduce dragonmarks into the game) and the spellplague (while I didn't like the extent of the effects, I did incorporate the spellplague as areas where dead magic & wild magic areas had changed/worsened) were ones that I could at least modify and incorporate easily. So I don't think that they need to get rid of them, they are a part of the canon and should remain, leaving it up to the DMs and Authors to use as they see fit. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 03:59:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I don't see why one has to get rid of spellscars. I think WotC should have spellscars remain, though they might become very, very rare. Some creatures have adapted to them such that their survival depends on their function. And there might be no way (or diminishing ways) to get a new spellscar.
Pretty much.
The effects of the Time of Troubles, wild magic areas, the Tuigan invasion, and other great events all still have their signs of impact upon both the lands and peoples of the Realms. The spellscarred of the Spellplague should not be any different.
Even with the reduced effects of the Spellplague, those touched by the event aren't simply going to disappear over night. And establishing spellscarred lineages [kind of somewhat similar to the Dragonmarked Houses of EBERRON] is something I've been tinkering with in my Realms now for quite some time. These lineages would see spellscarred abilities passed down to offspring -- either in reduced ability or with unexpected results to reflect the genetic uncertainties of conception. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 04:03:13
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
If you ask me, Spellscars were an attempt to lure in the Eberron crowd.
Not really.
As Therise mentioned above, curiously spontaneous abilities like those granted by spellscarred can be seen as just a further exploration of those 1e NPCs that could manifest strange "wild talents." The 'Invisible Art,' [or psionics] for example, during 1e, occurred among humans and demihumans mostly as minor and rare wild talents.
I could see the future of the spellscarred in the Realms being reduced to these kinds of rare abilities at some point. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 05:24:47
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You know, I've heard the spellscar vs dragonmarks comparison before, and it just doesn't really wash. They're superficially similar (and then only spellscars that manifest as markings), but no more similar than a warlock's pact vs a sorcerer's power source. Spellscars can be acquired/inflicted and are basically curses--they are hereditary after a fashion but are not predictable in their manifestation. Like a Warlock pact. Dragonmarks are hereditary and provide a useful utility ability to support particular noble houses--they are a fundamental part of culture in the Eberron setting. Like sorcery.
So no, let's not rehash this old discussion. Spellscars are just a freak magic thing, like spellfite, wild talents, etc. They aren't nearly as developed or essential as dragonmarks.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 05:35:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
You know, I've heard the spellscar vs dragonmarks comparison before, and it just doesn't really wash. They're superficially similar (and then only spellscars that manifest as markings), but no more similar than a warlock's pact vs a sorcerer's power source. Spellscars can be acquired/inflicted and are basically curses--they are hereditary after a fashion but are not predictable in their manifestation. Like a Warlock pact. Dragonmarks are hereditary and provide a useful utility ability to support particular noble houses--they are a fundamental part of culture in the Eberron setting. Like sorcery.
So no, let's not rehash this old discussion. Spellscars are just a freak magic thing, like spellfite, wild talents, etc. They aren't nearly as developed or essential as dragonmarks.
Cheers
Just to be clear, I wasn't actually intending on making the comparison. I was simply noting that it was the course I might follow in my Realms, by further developing spellscars beyond how they currently appear in the 4e rules set.
I agree that the comparison, as both sets are currently in the rules, doesn't quite work. Spellscars are, as I said above, really just rare wild talents at their core. Very much indicative of the original state of wild talents in 1e Realms. Dragonmarks tend to be more fully developed and aren't so usually open to the unexpectedness and random nature we've seen with spellscars in the fiction. [Cordell's examples in his "Abolethic Sovereignty" novels come immediately to mind when considering this.] |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 08:07:19
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I wasn't replying to anyone directly, Sage, and certainly not you. 
I think given a thousand years or so, spellscars could settle and evolve into something like dragonmarks. That's be an interesting discussion.
Thinking of how spellscars manifest in my novels, one isn't visual at all, one lights up a character's pre-existing arcane tattoos, and one takes the form of blue fire when activated. None of them are anything like a dragonmark.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 14:14:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I wasn't replying to anyone directly, Sage, and certainly not you.
I think given a thousand years or so, spellscars could settle and evolve into something like dragonmarks. That's be an interesting discussion.
Thinking of how spellscars manifest in my novels, one isn't visual at all, one lights up a character's pre-existing arcane tattoos, and one takes the form of blue fire when activated. None of them are anything like a dragonmark.
Cheers
And they are by far my least favorite things in your novels. I dont like Spellscars in any way, shape or form. But if the writing is good and the characters strong like yours, I can overlook them. I just do not want them to define who someone is.....they should be an enhancement(positive or negative) to a character....not all that they are. Ideally I'd like to see them all gone, never to return, but who am I to dump on everyone who enjoys them? I sincerley do hope they at least recede to where they are very rare and we are not seeing them in most every novel and never by all main players in a tale. But that's just me and I am only one customer.(even though I have bought multiples of almost every ESDB novel and distributed them to friends on the continents of North and South America, Europe, Asia and Austrailia)
It's a fine line to balnce when there are elements to address that are so polarizing post-spellplague. Here is to hoping the Sundering eases that burden on all our Realms Scribes! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 15:43:08
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I have a plan for the spellscars in my novels, no worries. I'm sorry they don't work better for you.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 16:53:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I have a plan for the spellscars in my novels, no worries. I'm sorry they don't work better for you.
Cheers
Don.t be sorry. But I do greatly appreciate that you care....about every reader.....every single one. And it does matter to you what they think and feel. And you aren't using them as a crutch to prop up a poor story (not that anyone else is either!) or turn one into a Mary Sue and make things easier for them. And more importantly you didnt just graft them on all your characters for the kewl factor. Seems they fit your characters arcs and serve a purpose. And since you are playing(writing) a long game.....I'm sure you have a twist for them all that we cant see coming, and likey another twist after that.
Hmmm...now that I reflect on your novels I am feeling a fine sense of balance for your characters. You give almost nothing without taking something away. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 16:54:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I wasn't replying to anyone directly, Sage, and certainly not you.
Not to worry then. 
quote:
Thinking of how spellscars manifest in my novels, one isn't visual at all, one lights up a character's pre-existing arcane tattoos, and one takes the form of blue fire when activated. None of them are anything like a dragonmark.
This shows that I need to reread your books, Erik.
Could you remind me of which character had a spellscar that lit up his/her pre-existing arcane tattoos? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 16:54:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I have a plan for the spellscars in my novels, no worries.
Good.
I know a lot of folk decry the spellscars, but I really feel like, had they been further developed in 4e, we would have eventually seen some creative stuff as designers took the concept and made them work as worthwhile expansions of the original 1e wild talents. |
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 17:16:03
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| Most of my comparisons of dragonmarks and spellscars have been from a mechanical standpoint. The causes for them are different, and the end results are different, but I think the rules for them are quite compatible. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 17:33:50
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Thanks for the kind words, RW. I'm glad you are pleased despite an element you're not entirely sold on. And you're right: the spellscars I use are not an afterthought but exist for a purpose. SB:EOJ started to make that more clear, and forthcoming novels will develop the concept further. (One hopes!)
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Thinking of how spellscars manifest in my novels, one isn't visual at all, one lights up a character's pre-existing arcane tattoos, and one takes the form of blue fire when activated. None of them are anything like a dragonmark.
This shows that I need to reread your books, Erik.
Could you remind me of which character had a spellscar that lit up his/her pre-existing arcane tattoos?
That would be my amnesiac wizard Myrin, whose spellscar is closely tied to her magical abilities. She "remembers" spells she cast once upon a time, and each causes a gleaming black tattoo to appear somewhere on her skin. When she uses her spellscar (which at least thus far largely serves to absorb magic or memories), those tattoos start glowing bright blue.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Most of my comparisons of dragonmarks and spellscars have been from a mechanical standpoint. The causes for them are different, and the end results are different, but I think the rules for them are quite compatible.
One could certainly make that argument, it's true. Personally, I'm always more interested in the stories of things than their mechanical executions in one or another of the editions of the game. 4e is both helpful and unhelpful in this regard, as spellscars were similar to other types of magic you might have (both active powers and passive feats), which were themselves mechanically similar to any other set of powers.
We shall see how DnD-Next does spellscars, if it even addresses the issue at all.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 19:09:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Most of my comparisons of dragonmarks and spellscars have been from a mechanical standpoint. The causes for them are different, and the end results are different, but I think the rules for them are quite compatible.
One could certainly make that argument, it's true. Personally, I'm always more interested in the stories of things than their mechanical executions in one or another of the editions of the game. 4e is both helpful and unhelpful in this regard, as spellscars were similar to other types of magic you might have (both active powers and passive feats), which were themselves mechanically similar to any other set of powers.
We shall see how DnD-Next does spellscars, if it even addresses the issue at all.
Cheers
Oh, I quite agree on that one. But most of the few times I've discussed spellscars, it's been when someone wanted to do something similar in 3.x/Pathfinder. I don't really have anything to say on the 4E application of them. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2013 : 01:10:38
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I commend everyone for maintaining a refreshingly civil, academic, and well-argued discussion ... normally these scrolls seem to degenerate into locked 4E-bashing flame fests.
Spellscars are just a premise for granting random powers to characters. Every player likes having that special little unpredictable edge in his pocket for rough situations ... I‘ve seen many, many DMs grant their PCs (and most noteworthy NPCs) some sort of unique cheat: psionic wild talents, minor magical talents, spellfire, hellfire, silverfire, “shadowfire“, dragonmarks, cinnabryl powers, “intrinsics“, outsider/deity ancestry, exotic bloodlines, etc etc
To me these sorts of things are a bit of a crutch, they make fine fare as one-of-a-kind gifts for interesting and special novel protagonists (once in a while), but they tend to become dominant freebies for ever-power-hungry PCs who - in my opinion - should work hard with what they‘ve got to get what they want instead of having unneeded mutant superpowers. PCs are already supposed to be inherently special and unique, I prefer ye olde AD&D(1E)-style where one does not gain special abilities until reaching the very highest levels of experience in a class or specialty; powers like the quivering palm or Hands of Myrkul are much more feared (and potent because of that fear) when there‘s literally only one Grand Master monk or a mere handful of priests who can access them.
When everybody is Super then nobody is. Thus I disdain such stuff as spellscars.
Of course, spellscars are/were already asserted in canon. I feel that simply retconning them out would do more damage than progressively easing them into the background until only a few scribes might recall arguing about them. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 29 Aug 2013 01:19:56 |
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Return of the Weave 1479 DR
