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Entromancer
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Apr 2013 : 20:23:26
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Would it be possible for a barbarian shaman with an underground army of genasi, tieflings, goblinoids and wyrmkeepers to turn Cormyr into a No Man's Land ala Bane from The Dark Knight Rises? I can't, for the life of me, figure out how to subdue/incapacitate Elminster and any other chosen lurking around the Realm.
Suggestions? Or would this be extremely suicidal and extremely stupid?
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"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul
"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2013 : 22:32:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
Would it be possible for a barbarian shaman with an underground army of genasi, tieflings, goblinoids and wyrmkeepers to turn Cormyr into a No Man's Land ala Bane from The Dark Knight Rises? I can't, for the life of me, figure out how to subdue/incapacitate Elminster and any other chosen lurking around the Realm.
Suggestions? Or would this be extremely suicidal and extremely stupid?
Doing that to an entire kingdom is a very tall order. Doing it to a single city is far more likely.
Countering the Chosen isn't a problem. Countering those the Chosen would use as their proxies -- Harpers, adventurers, likely even some evil NPCs that could be aimed in the right direction is a bigger factor.
You'd need to isolate the city from the rest of the kingdom, so a more outlying place would work better than Suzail would.
You'd need to counter the threat from the War Wizards, the Purple Dragons, and the Highknights.
You'd also need to counter all the independent agents would would interfere. Retired adventurers in the town, random adventurers that can't resist a good fight, nearby wizards, priests of any deities who have temples/shrines in the town, evil individuals/groups that would interfere for their own ends, dragons or other monsters that might decide to interfere...
It can be done. But it'd take a large army.
And that's just for one town. Scale it up dramatically for a kingdom -- you'd need to counter a lot more internal threats, and factor in allies of the kingdom or those who would attack to prevent the unrest from spilling over into their own lands. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2013 : 22:34:42
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| Oh, and it brings to mind something I've pondered... What if Cormyr wasn't actually ceded to the Obarskyrs, as is commonly held? What if the Obarskyrs are custodians, and a forgotten part of the agreement between humans and elves was that if the Obarskyrs weren't in charge, the elves would take back the land? |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2013 : 23:23:06
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I don't think the OP is talking conquest of Cormyr, and you mention only a direct army tactic (when there are indirect and proxy forms of attack).
What they are talking about to turning the nation into a chaotic wild (The best realms example would be Myth Drannor, during when it was abandoned after the Weeping War, but nationwide in this case). It is easier to do this to a city, but is possible with a nation.
You are going to need precise surgical strikes in rapid succession to cause massive panic and chaos, which can role out of control faster then the Chosen and their proxies can handle at the same time. The best would be to find ways to majorly attack Cormyr as well hit other places so they are distracted first before the big Cormyr attack. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2013 : 23:23:42
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Well if you want to turn Cormyr into a no man land, it clearly is possible if you have enough troops. You need to crush the power centers it is as simple as that. Chosen almost a power center to themselves clearly need to be confined or killed, as much many others.
If you are asking for a plan, it clearly can depend on level, but also level and numbers of your troops on conquest. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1299 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2013 : 23:31:21
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| Some sort of anti-magic shell artifact would counter the Chosen AND the War Wizards. I would play up that Purple Dragons are complacent because of the War Wizards, and they are overwhelmed without being backed up by magic. You could also have the bulk of their army countering some Zhent Stonelands uprising when it happens; and have drow/tieflings quickly capture Azoun/etc. which would bring down the Purple Dragon leadership. Sounds fun, as long as the good guys win in the end! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2013 : 23:45:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
I don't think the OP is talking conquest of Cormyr, and you mention only a direct army tactic (when there are indirect and proxy forms of attack).
I wasn't speaking of conquest either. I was speaking of the need for military forces of his own to counter the military forces that will inevitably be deployed when this happens, whether it's small-scale or large. |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2013 : 23:45:05
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If I were to undertake something of this magnitude, one of the best things I can imagine would be a plague (an actual one, nothing to do with 'Spell'). Introduce it to a local community while using certain means (off-plane assassins and thugs, etc.) to incapacitate the local clergy who can combat this sort of thing, then use guerrilla tactics to pick off incoming relief parties, though allow all people (who are not clerics) who are trying to flee to do so.
A village or small town could be depopulated in short order, even if some prove resistant/immune to your disease wave. Any persistent or stubborn residents could then be removed using creative (or brutal) methods.
- OMH |
Edited by - Old Man Harpell on 02 Apr 2013 23:46:06 |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 00:40:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
I don't think the OP is talking conquest of Cormyr, and you mention only a direct army tactic (when there are indirect and proxy forms of attack).
I wasn't speaking of conquest either. I was speaking of the need for military forces of his own to counter the military forces that will inevitably be deployed when this happens, whether it's small-scale or large.
K, save if you can cause the military to break down in which cause there is a different threat.
OP
If you want to break down Cormyr and it's society... look to disaster, distopia and real life examples.
Natural Disasters, Plagues, Wars, Madness, Famine, Drought, and so on. As well as their magical counterparts. Enchanted Plagues, Elemental based Diasters, undead/fiendish/orcish Hordes, so on. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 01:20:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, and it brings to mind something I've pondered... What if Cormyr wasn't actually ceded to the Obarskyrs, as is commonly held? What if the Obarskyrs are custodians, and a forgotten part of the agreement between humans and elves was that if the Obarskyrs weren't in charge, the elves would take back the land?
Between the ghazneths, the queen of thornes and the next big evil threat to Cormyr that seems to be just around the corner I am beginning to believe that Cormyr is nothing but a giant investment scam.
The dragons wanted to get rid of this piece of trouble and dumped it on the elves and when the elves realized what ### their new land actually is they tricked the humans into taking custody of it
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 03:23:48
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| Well a few placed Earthquakes could be useful. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 03:34:18
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Bane's trick in TDKR worked due to planing, planning, planning. Eight years of prepwork went into it. He got the people in power in the city he was taking to fund his operation. His opening move neutralized internal armed resistance.
Oh, and he had a nuke, and made sure the whole world knew he had one.
First big obstacle is, of course, where to get something with that much destructive power in the realms. Certainly such things exist, but they aren't exactly as easy to come by as nuclear weapons are in our world, nor are they as easy to control.
Then there's the issue that should you acquire an item of such power as to be able to level a city in an instant, most people aren't going to know what it is to be afraid of it, were as nukes are very much ingrained in the human psyche in the real world. So either you need to find something that people would recognize on sight as something of great, destructive power....say a great red wyrm or a tarrasque(which, again, you'd need some way of controlling. Good luck.), or you'd have to acquire two items of such power and actually use one first, and use it in such a public way as to make sure everyone knew what it was, knew you had it, and knew you were willing to use it. Not an easy feat in a world without mass media.
Then there's the question of, would the threat of a city's destruction really stop the government from challenging you the way it would in our world? The U.S. Government are slaves to PR. Causing the destruction of one of our own cities, twelve million people, that's something that no real world politician's career can survive.
But a Monarch in a fantasy society dealing with a much smaller loss of life(thousands vs millions)? They might risk it and file it under acceptable losses to ensure their own power and avoid looking weak in front of their people, peers, and rivals.
Then you have to deal with the logistics of holding a city/country in a world that lacks mass vehicular transit but has pesky things like teleportation. Makes things a lot trickier.
Can it be done? Of course. No empire is eternal, especially in fantasy settings. Cormyr is just as vulnerable to collapse as any other nation. But it can't be done quickly or easily. It's something that would require years of prep work and subtle manipulation for years before a military invasion.
I'd first suggest doing it in the post spellplague world so you don't have to deal with those pesky chosen, just the broken shell of a man that is Elminster. If you insist on doing it prespellplague or in a non-spellplague world, the only way to do it is by having this barbarian shaman be the chosen of some god or another himself. Bane could only beat Batman because he had the same training as him, after all. You have to have someone who can match the chosen on equal terms. It's also not only a point of fighting them magically, but undermining them emotionally and outsmarting them. Again, long-game this.
However you deal with the chosen, my suggestion for a move against Cormyr is the systematic assassination of the warwizards in the years leading up to your invasion. By the time your genasi, tieflings, orcs & goblinoids invade, there should only be a few dozen of them if that left.
Oh, while we're on your army- make sure they're well trained. Don't just take orcs's CR 1/2 as the end all be all of orc capabilities. Put some class levels on them. This army of yours isn't a mass of mindless battle drones. Each is an individual that has trained for this invasion, and that you would have trained with a specific(but flexible) battle plan in mind.
And, of course, there's the "nuke" question. Personally my suggestion is a dragon that's reached the apex of it's life. Not a lot armies can really do against them except burn. It's just a matter of how you're controlling it.
Anyway, that's all I got for right now. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 03:47:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Bane's trick in TDKR worked due to planing, planning, planning. Eight years of prepwork went into it. He got the people in power in the city he was taking to fund his operation. His opening move neutralized internal armed resistance.
Oh, and he had a nuke, and made sure the whole world knew he had one.
First big obstacle is, of course, where to get something with that much destructive power in the realms. Certainly such things exist, but they aren't exactly as easy to come by as nuclear weapons are in our world, nor are they as easy to control.
Then there's the issue that should you acquire an item of such power as to be able to level a city in an instant, most people aren't going to know what it is to be afraid of it, were as nukes are very much ingrained in the human psyche in the real world. So either you need to find something that people would recognize on sight as something of great, destructive power....say a great red wyrm or a tarrasque(which, again, you'd need some way of controlling. Good luck.), or you'd have to acquire two items of such power and actually use one first, and use it in such a public way as to make sure everyone knew what it was, knew you had it, and knew you were willing to use it. Not an easy feat in a world without mass media.
Then there's the question of, would the threat of a city's destruction really stop the government from challenging you the way it would in our world? The U.S. Government are slaves to PR. Causing the destruction of one of our own cities, twelve million people, that's something that no real world politician's career can survive.
But a Monarch in a fantasy society dealing with a much smaller loss of life(thousands vs millions)? They might risk it and file it under acceptable losses to ensure their own power and avoid looking weak in front of their people, peers, and rivals.
Then you have to deal with the logistics of holding a city/country in a world that lacks mass vehicular transit but has pesky things like teleportation. Makes things a lot trickier.
Can it be done? Of course. No empire is eternal, especially in fantasy settings. Cormyr is just as vulnerable to collapse as any other nation. But it can't be done quickly or easily. It's something that would require years of prep work and subtle manipulation for years before a military invasion.
I'd first suggest doing it in the post spellplague world so you don't have to deal with those pesky chosen, just the broken shell of a man that is Elminster. If you insist on doing it prespellplague or in a non-spellplague world, the only way to do it is by having this barbarian shaman be the chosen of some god or another himself. Bane could only beat Batman because he had the same training as him, after all. You have to have someone who can match the chosen on equal terms. It's also not only a point of fighting them magically, but undermining them emotionally and outsmarting them. Again, long-game this.
However you deal with the chosen, my suggestion for a move against Cormyr is the systematic assassination of the warwizards in the years leading up to your invasion. By the time your genasi, tieflings, orcs & goblinoids invade, there should only be a few dozen of them if that left.
Oh, while we're on your army- make sure they're well trained. Don't just take orcs's CR 1/2 as the end all be all of orc capabilities. Put some class levels on them. This army of yours isn't a mass of mindless battle drones. Each is an individual that has trained for this invasion, and that you would have trained with a specific(but flexible) battle plan in mind.
And, of course, there's the "nuke" question. Personally my suggestion is a dragon that's reached the apex of it's life. Not a lot armies can really do against them except burn. It's just a matter of how you're controlling it.
Anyway, that's all I got for right now.
Fantasy worlds have no Nukes... but it does have Plagues and natural Disasters like Super powered Thunderstorms, Tornadoes, Huricanes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earthquakes... all on demand with the right wizard spell or god (Like Talona or Talos). All of which is ingrained in our minds even before Nukes. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 03:55:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Bane's trick in TDKR worked due to planing, planning, planning. Eight years of prepwork went into it. He got the people in power in the city he was taking to fund his operation. His opening move neutralized internal armed resistance.
Oh, and he had a nuke, and made sure the whole world knew he had one.
First big obstacle is, of course, where to get something with that much destructive power in the realms. Certainly such things exist, but they aren't exactly as easy to come by as nuclear weapons are in our world, nor are they as easy to control.
Then there's the issue that should you acquire an item of such power as to be able to level a city in an instant, most people aren't going to know what it is to be afraid of it, were as nukes are very much ingrained in the human psyche in the real world. So either you need to find something that people would recognize on sight as something of great, destructive power....say a great red wyrm or a tarrasque(which, again, you'd need some way of controlling. Good luck.), or you'd have to acquire two items of such power and actually use one first, and use it in such a public way as to make sure everyone knew what it was, knew you had it, and knew you were willing to use it. Not an easy feat in a world without mass media.
Then there's the question of, would the threat of a city's destruction really stop the government from challenging you the way it would in our world? The U.S. Government are slaves to PR. Causing the destruction of one of our own cities, twelve million people, that's something that no real world politician's career can survive.
But a Monarch in a fantasy society dealing with a much smaller loss of life(thousands vs millions)? They might risk it and file it under acceptable losses to ensure their own power and avoid looking weak in front of their people, peers, and rivals.
Then you have to deal with the logistics of holding a city/country in a world that lacks mass vehicular transit but has pesky things like teleportation. Makes things a lot trickier.
Can it be done? Of course. No empire is eternal, especially in fantasy settings. Cormyr is just as vulnerable to collapse as any other nation. But it can't be done quickly or easily. It's something that would require years of prep work and subtle manipulation for years before a military invasion.
I'd first suggest doing it in the post spellplague world so you don't have to deal with those pesky chosen, just the broken shell of a man that is Elminster. If you insist on doing it prespellplague or in a non-spellplague world, the only way to do it is by having this barbarian shaman be the chosen of some god or another himself. Bane could only beat Batman because he had the same training as him, after all. You have to have someone who can match the chosen on equal terms. It's also not only a point of fighting them magically, but undermining them emotionally and outsmarting them. Again, long-game this.
However you deal with the chosen, my suggestion for a move against Cormyr is the systematic assassination of the warwizards in the years leading up to your invasion. By the time your genasi, tieflings, orcs & goblinoids invade, there should only be a few dozen of them if that left.
Oh, while we're on your army- make sure they're well trained. Don't just take orcs's CR 1/2 as the end all be all of orc capabilities. Put some class levels on them. This army of yours isn't a mass of mindless battle drones. Each is an individual that has trained for this invasion, and that you would have trained with a specific(but flexible) battle plan in mind.
And, of course, there's the "nuke" question. Personally my suggestion is a dragon that's reached the apex of it's life. Not a lot armies can really do against them except burn. It's just a matter of how you're controlling it.
Anyway, that's all I got for right now.
Fantasy worlds have no Nukes... but it does have Plagues and natural Disasters like Super powered Thunderstorms, Tornadoes, Huricanes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earthquakes... all on demand with the right wizard spell or god (Like Talona or Talos). All of which is ingrained in our minds even before Nukes.
Don't take it literally when I say "nuke". I'm not talking about a bomb that goes off with the power of splitting the atom(or, in TDKR, fusing it).
I'm taking about some magical item, spell, or creature that has the destructive power of leveling a city in an instant. Such things do exist...they're just beyond the reach of most campaigns. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 04:36:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
I don't think the OP is talking conquest of Cormyr, and you mention only a direct army tactic (when there are indirect and proxy forms of attack).
I wasn't speaking of conquest either. I was speaking of the need for military forces of his own to counter the military forces that will inevitably be deployed when this happens, whether it's small-scale or large.
K, save if you can cause the military to break down in which cause there is a different threat.
I think causing the military to break down would be pretty tough. Keep in mind that without instantaneous communications, each military unit is somewhat independent. Once the word gets out, a lot of commanders will deploy their troops as necessary -- they're not going to wait for orders from home. A Purple Dragon officer, hearing of turmoil in the Realm, is going to do what he can to support the nation, and depending on his location, may take some or all of his troops towards the nearest trouble spot.
They would certainly be uncoordinated, unless some friendly wizards (not necessarily War Wizards) helped with communications. But they'd still be rallying to the Crown, and having a lot of army troops headed your way is going to be something that's not easy to counter.
It's part of why I think causing all of Cormyr to break down is going to be so very tough -- there are just too many potential threats to counter. Picking one city -- or even better, an independent city-state, elsewhere, would be a lot easier. |
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Entromancer
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 05:20:39
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| What about sending in smaller squads to incite strife and in-fighting in Cormyr before launching the main assault? |
"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul
"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 06:27:20
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Find a way to intercept or control communication between military units. Get two to think each other has gone rogue and they're both being sent to quash rebellion. Do what you can to increase friendly fire and manipulate troop movements. True, they won't just wait around for orders and will act independently, but make sure the information they act on is the information you want them to act on.
Or use illusion spells to get one army to look like bandits or monsters to the other army. Good reason to assassinate those war wizards, make this a more viable plan.
Again, going back to my "long game" points earlier, get your people on the inside in as many levels as possible to get them to incite unrest from within. Encourage rivalries between military units. Foster suspicion. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 12:15:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
What about sending in smaller squads to incite strife and in-fighting in Cormyr before launching the main assault?
Inciting strife in Cormyr? That's like sending in smaller squads with buckets full of water to get the ocean wet |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 12:22:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
planing, planning, planning.
This is the way you need to go about it. Plan, wait till the plan works out, then plan again with new means and built up on the previous one. Small steps that cover the ground until you have a solid foundation to work higher, it takes time, alot of effort and you always need to be prepared to act when some plan does not work out as you hoped it would or someone else is finding out about what you do and actively opposes your schemes. Try to create alliances with other powergroups that have a similar goal or that require a deed done so they align with you.
You need to be smart, calculating, planing ahead and run mindgames of what would you do when something occures and prepare for such possibilities and be creative.
Amusingly, the things i described is how Banites and Zhentarim work( before 4e made a mockery out of them), alot of subtle operations until you have all pieces in place to move ahead and at the end go for the big prize in an everything or nothing attempt. If you fail, try to go underground and built up again from scratch. This could occupy people in such a campagin for alot of time. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 15:02:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
What about sending in smaller squads to incite strife and in-fighting in Cormyr before launching the main assault?
Well if you have enough troops it might work. The problem though is that as border raids step up so will defenders. The only way this might be effective would be large raids on most borders, that troops are drawn from center and a calm border. You massive strike force of course hidden beyond the calm border to attack poorly defended border and strike to less defended cities on towns in a slash and burn attack.
In something like a few year campaign you might even place mercenaries within the defending forces to revolt a certain day.
Any region could become less stable if enough leaders are killed and enough chaotics move in the lands.
All in all it requires planning time and resources. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 15:47:57
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| Nothing splits a country better than a religeous civil war. |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 18:26:28
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| Nothing splits a country better than a religeous civil war. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 19:25:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
Nothing splits a country better than a religeous civil war.
I read you the first time. While their are deities in opposition in the Realms, such wars are unlikely in the Realms where people believe in many deities. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 21:36:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
Nothing splits a country better than a religeous civil war.
I read you the first time. While their are deities in opposition in the Realms, such wars are unlikely in the Realms where people believe in many deities.
It's also unlikely to work when there isn't a state-sponsored religion. If there was a single, state-sponsored religion, using religious strife to cause a civil war becomes a far more workable solution. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 22:33:37
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Track down a few royal bastards and recruit them, get them to start rousing rabble about wanting to rule the place.
Then while they're doing that, start some democratic groups.
Should have a full scale rebellion going on in about four years. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2482 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2013 : 23:56:27
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The only way to knock down Cormyr is to use its own forces working for their own good and not suspecting anything. Like using price disbalances to bankrupt some parts, while causing commoners to be upset at nobles without giving the Crown good formal reasons to remove the latter in other places. Preferrably while the whole place overexrts - e.g. runs a tariff war with Sembia while goblins and sahuagin get restless and pirate get paranoidal or vengeful... that sort of thing.
Otherwise, it's far too big, strong and already have mechanisms countering sneaky moves by Zhents and local nobles.
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Some sort of anti-magic shell artifact would counter the Chosen AND the War Wizards.
In a MUD, yes. In FR world, on a small scale this is used mostly against detection. As the simplest solution - let me quote the last words a nameless Cyricist who employed exactly this sort of tactics heard (from Elminster of Shadowdale) in FR Comics:
- But are you equally immune to falling masonry?
quote:
I would play up that Purple Dragons are complacent because of the War Wizards, and they are overwhelmed without being backed up by magic.
They're tough (regular clashes with goblins, etc prevent getting fat), so not a lot. And will get even this beaten out of them after one fight. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1299 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2013 : 03:21:23
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| Oh I meant an anti-magic shell that spanned the whole kingdom, or a large part of it. Not a personal size one. One that made magic stop functioning in Cormyr entirely. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2013 : 07:21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
Would it be possible for a barbarian shaman with an underground army of genasi, tieflings, goblinoids and wyrmkeepers to turn Cormyr into a No Man's Land ala Bane from The Dark Knight Rises?
I don't think you could do that to all of Cormyr unless you had a nearly infinite army--of the sort that an army of deepspawn (each with its own supply of limitless food, all producing large numbers of troops day after day, month after month to replace your losses) could make--with which to pacify the land.
If we're talking smaller scale, say Marsember or Arabel (or smaller), then yes I think an army like the one you describe could take control, provided it had surprise and the ability to close or otherwise nullify existing portals between these cities and the Royal Palace and Royal Court in Suzail, and some ability to prevent teleportation or to identify teleporting arrivals and deal with them quickly and decisively.
quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
I can't, for the life of me, figure out how to subdue/incapacitate Elminster and any other chosen lurking around the Realm.
If we're talking the small scale, don't worry about them because they just won't care about your invasion force.
If we're talking large scale, I still wouldn't worry about them.
Cormyr has had its fight or die tests in the past where the Chosen were effectively out of the picture and it probably will again in the future.
In these tests Cormyr has gotten stronger, because it won and survived. Whose to say your scenario isn't one of these situations where the gods (including Mystra) and their servants sit back and watch what they've helped to create get stress tested? |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 04 Apr 2013 09:04:57 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2013 : 05:11:39
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I honestly think we're over thinking this. Cormyr falls as hard or as easy as a given GM wills it to.
What it boils down to is can this barbarian shaman's forces beat the purple dragons and the war wizards in battle. If Entromancer says they can, then they can(within the context of his realms, of course).
End of story, really. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2013 : 06:35:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I honestly think we're over thinking this. Cormyr falls as hard or as easy as a given GM wills it to.
I was thinking about this scroll today and came to the same conclusion.
I think if a DM wants it to happen, he ought to start from "It's happened, now what?"
As in, "Now what do the players do?"
If the players are the types to really question how and why, let the adventure flow that way.
If they're not, then the DM can sculpt a Locked Down Cormyr to his or her liking and let the players fix things or do whatever it is he thinks they'll do.
That said, half the fun of DMing is building and pondering, so I'd not say "end of story" so much as "the story has just gotten started."
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Bringing Down Cormyr
