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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Apr 2013 : 08:05:33
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What color type of dragon, do you think would not be above lockpicking and pickpocketing for treasure?
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2013 : 08:15:29
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| A bronze dragon, off the top of my head. Particularly a young, immature one stuck in humanoid form. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1602 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2013 : 11:51:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
A bronze dragon, off the top of my head. Particularly a young, immature one stuck in humanoid form.
Well, at least in 2e, the bronze was LG, but he was a pirate hunter (and maybe would learn it to open pirate treasure chests); however, since coppers are more roguish and usually CG, maybe they would be better candidates to knowing those skills.  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2013 : 12:08:40
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| I could see a fearie dragon,for pulling pranks, do that, yet i donīt know if they would be able to do the tasks by themselves or trick others into doing it for them. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12084 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2013 : 18:05:32
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Yeah, any of the smaller dragons (faerie dragons definitely... they'd do it for the kicks, but also pseudodragons might). In fact, I could definitely see faerie dragons picking up arcane trickster as a prestige class to get the ranged legerdemain. They should be able to get in rather easy with a level or sorceror, wizard, or bard (whatever gets them mage hand) and a level of rogue and a level of spellthief. Granted, they'd have a horrible BAB, but then again.... who sees a faerie dragon intending to go toe to toe with anyone. I could however see them turning invisible and using that to sneak attack with a spell (or maybe a reserve feat such as acidic orb or invisible needle). If they could get hide in plain sight somehow easily, then that would be useful too.
You know, thinking about this, it'd be fun to have a roguish pair of fey... maybe a faerie dragon and a pixie. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2013 : 01:49:18
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Galauntyr "the Glorytongue" in Waterdeep.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2013 : 02:22:16
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| A copper dragon with the ability (magic, magic item, or whatever) to take human form. They'd take stuff out of pockets, put stuff in for pranks, and engage in all manner of amusing hijinks. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Emma Drake
Learned Scribe
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2013 : 16:03:51
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I disagree that bronze dragons would resort to lock-picking and thievery. Maybe an individual would, because anything is possible, but as a group, unlikely. Pseudodragons... maybe? They're small, but nothing else in their description jumps out at me as "rogue!"
Dragons of the Good variety that might engage in rogue-ish behaviors for treasure:
Brass - No one has mentioned these, but I think they're a good choice. They are chaotically aligned and do things like trap people just to have someone to talk to. That speaks to a certain moral flexibility as regards ownership and liberty. It's not a big leap to say they might steal to force people to engage with them and if the conversation is not up to par, keep whatever it is they've held as leverage.
Copper - Certainly, and many have already suggested it. As tricksters, and described in the Monster Manual as "particularly greedy for their alignment," they're a top choice.
Faerie - Tiny tricksters that specialize in illusions. Of course.
Mercury - Mercury dragons are described as extremely unpredictable, delighting, in fact, in the unexpected. They have a natural shape-change ability and are highly skilled at crafting traps. Crafting traps usually also means being good at disarming them. I'd say these are a really good choice.
Song - Songs are both chaotic good and chaotic neutrally aligned. They also possess a natural shape-change ability and are described as consummate actors. Sure, why not?
Dragons of the Neutral variety that might engage in rogue-ish behaviors for treasure:
Topaz - Not my top choice, but they are chaotic neutral, avoid combat (thus getting little treasure from combat), and have psionic powers like telekinesis that might help them steal.
Dragons of the Evil variety that might engage in rogue-ish behaviors for treasure:
Blue - Blue dragons are gifted in illusion magics. That might give them an inclination towards deception and stealing.
Deep - Deep dragons possess a natural shape-change ability and specialize in traps. This is one that I think is a particularly good choice.
Red - This is an iffy choice. Described as the greediest of the dragons, perhaps red dragons would do anything for treasure, including stealing. On the other hand, why steal when you could just eat someone and then take it?
Shadow - Shadow dragons are described as "sly and devious," employ illusions, and attack from hiding.
Yellow - Yellow dragons are solitary, use spells to mislead, and are expert trap-makers. Again, trap-making and trap-disarming are two sides of the same coin.
Edited for spelling. |
"I am always here, all about you. You are never truly alone. I flow wherever life flows, wherever winds blow and water runs and the sun and moon chase each other, for there is magic in all things."
- Mystra (Ed Greenwood, Silverfall) |
Edited by - Emma Drake on 04 May 2013 16:06:09 |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2013 : 20:44:03
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Deep Dragons
they can naturally polymorph and stay in their "other" forms for long stretches |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2013 : 23:13:59
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I've seen no mention of human-immersive Steel or Grey dragons (which may or may not be differing species) ... although Faerie, Song, Copper, and Mercury dragons are all good suggestions.
I think it might depend more on the setting than the species ... no species of dragon on Krynn seems at all likely to ever mimic the lowliest and basest human behaviours, while in the Realms one might even find Morueme-clan Blues practicing the human (or drow) arts of theft and assassination. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Emma Drake
Learned Scribe
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2013 : 02:29:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I've seen no mention of human-immersive Steel or Grey dragons (which may or may not be differing species) ...
I thought about them because of the fact that they prefer human form to dragon, but decided they were too lawful. In 2e it says: "the dragons never hesitate to report troublemakers or to use their special abilities to hunt down criminals." In 3e the description goes on at length about their intellectual pursuits. It's certainly possible that an individual steel dragon might become a thief, but I don't see them as a good general choice. |
"I am always here, all about you. You are never truly alone. I flow wherever life flows, wherever winds blow and water runs and the sun and moon chase each other, for there is magic in all things."
- Mystra (Ed Greenwood, Silverfall) |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1602 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2013 : 11:54:34
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Very nice, Emma.
Although I've considered bronzes opening treasure chests, I'm still not comfortable about them opening locks. Just as they destroy the pirates, they would destroy the chests, if so, or take them whole. About reds, well, maybe younger ones would work this way, if there is a more poweful red in he area which would threaten them if they attracted too much attention. Otherwise, i don't think subtlety would be their way. And I see faerie dragons also as tricksters, maybe even more than coppers.
And Ayrik, I think the steel/gray weren't mentioned because, even if they are very immersed in humanoid culture, they are mostly lwful, more akin to sages, wizards and scholars than to rogues. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2013 : 14:44:24
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Galauntyr "the Glorytongue" in Waterdeep.
-- George Krashos
That would be my suggestion as well. But I think Copper Dragons are generally the most likely among the most well known dragon types. Certainly the smaller dragons are known for their mischief.
Dragons as a whole are a greedy lot, so while most Lawful dragons probably wouldn't steal, I wouldn't put it past pretty much any of the other types. Even generally benevolent dragons still tend to like their loot. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2013 : 21:54:13
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quote:
Certainly the smaller dragons are known for their mischief.
Size doesn't matter when one can polymorph.
Even the weakest dragon subtypes will tend towards strength and dominance, cunning and intellect ... and dragons are intrinsically magical by definition. So it's no real surprise that dragons would become what humans call warriors and wizards.
But some dragons are priests, some are monks, some are bards. I don't think it's impossible some would be thieves. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2013 : 02:02:28
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Why a steal dragon, of course!  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2013 : 05:15:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Why a steal dragon, of course!
Wow, that's bad. I'm jealous that I didn't think of it!  |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12084 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2013 : 10:48:07
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| I'm surprised that pseudodragon keeps getting dropped as an option? The monster manual states "Pseudodragons are tiny,playful members of the dragon family". They have a poison attack that puts people to sleep (nice for bypassing low level guards without killing them). They have blindsense and telepathy (perfect for finding guards and/or messing with them). They have a bonus to the hide skill. Also "a pseudodragon's persality has been described as catlike" and "if the pseudodragon is mistreated or insulted, it will leave - or worse, play pranks when least expected.". Sounds perfectly roguish to me. Their highest ability being dexterity, I'd state they're highly inclined towards it since they're not inclined towards spell use due to their average intelligence, wisdom, and charisma. That being said, like I said with the faerie dragon before, if you had one with more charisma and/or intelligence, I see them going into arcane trickster as soon as possible, but the build would be slightly different. As before, it would be a level of wizard, sorceror, wu jen, or bard (whatever gets them magehand and knowledge of 2 divination spells) followed by a level of rogue or spellthief, followed by a level in the unseen seer prestige class, then mixing unseen seer and arcane trickster. This advances their spellcasting slightly faster. Its ironic that beguiler would be perfect for this, but they don't offer mage hand as a spell, so they don't give access into arcane trickster without another arcane casting class (and actually, I think in my homebrew's I'd give beguilers that 0-level spell for exactly that reason. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12084 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2013 : 10:58:15
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| Oh, and for those wondering why I state that pseudodragons would go unseen seer and faerie dragons not, it comes purely down to the search skill ranks. After finishing arcane trickster or while building it, I could definitely see faerie dragons going into unseen seer as well (noting, it does advance BAB a little better). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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What sort of dragon would pickpocket and lockpick?
