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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Feb 2013 : 20:42:49
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So my players have decided to visit Candlekeep. I've gathered the information from A Grand Tour of the Realms and Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast, and by searching around I discovered mr. Greenwood's splendid piece of lore on Candlekeep on this site. It was kind of a relief to see that the 10,000 gp - book entry fee is a somewhat exaggerated rumor 
Now, to my questions. The characters received from mayor/high priest Kelddath Ormlyr of Beregost two books, which they hope will be good enough as entry fees. They are just two books I invented on the spot, called "On the Division of far-away Thay into Tharchs" and "Herbs of the High Moor: Those I Surveyed Before Being Chased off by Trolls". Question 1 is, do these books sound like something the monks at Candlekeep would be interested in? Maybe not. Which brings me to my second, more important question:
What kind of quest could the monks of Candlekeep bestow upon the characters (one first level wizard, one just-dinged second level cleric and a halfling henchman/NPC/GMPC) for them to be allowed access? I mean, the reward would be access to tomes of lore within Candlekeep, but what would the quest be? I'm thinking it should be something like searching for and returning a lost tome of great value...but maybe someone has a good suggestion, or other ideas. I need your inspiration!
I'm grateful for any comments, insight etc. For more details on our story so far (just two sessions, sandbox), check out the link in my sig..
thanks
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Edited by - Caladan Brood on 19 Feb 2013 20:43:48
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2013 : 21:08:23
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The "value" of a given donation depends not upon its exact rarity, but upon how precious it would be to the characters. For a king or mage of note, no those would not be enough. But for your characters, who sound like they don't have much, it should be plenty. A gold piece is nothing to a rich man, but to a pauper it is a fortune...
Also remember that not everyone is given complete access. If your characters are looking for specific information, this should be taken into account. The less powerful readers are not even allowed into every room of the keep. The library has a hierarchy of books. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2013 : 22:31:49
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I don't think that 10,000 gp book donation is in the least negotiable. It is, as you say, Candlekeep, and even limited access is an incredible treasure.
Based solely on the titles of the books you gave, I'd guess that yes, the monks would be interested (if they don't already own them), but that they probably wouldn't be worth the full 10,000. They could be, though. If the book on Thay was, for instance, written in the first few years after the Red Wizard rebellion and details how the Tharch system came into being (a modern equivalent would be an original manuscript detailing the debates at the US Constitutional Convention), or if the herb book detailed rare herbs, extinct herbs, or rare ways of using the herbs to great effect, either one could be worth the 10,000 gp.
Given the low level, I'm having a hard time coming up with a suitable quest. There's always the skeletons in the catacombs. Maybe escorting visitors to and from one of the nearby cities. If they were higher level I'd say send them to infiltrate the illithids of Telectus and see what they're up to (and preferably steal lore back), but that'd be suicide for those characters.
Given the above, I'd probably just make the books worth enough. They can't do any browsing without the patronage of a mage of power, so all they'll get is the ability to ask questions and have the monks do researching. It's also an interesting moral dilemma for them: they've just been handed books worth far more than they've ever seen before; will they give them to Candlekeep, or run off with them? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2013 : 07:30:18
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Thanks for the replies. As for a quest I've been thinking that it should be one that takes them all over the Realms so that when they confront the final guardian of some lost lore, they will be higher levels...I don't know if the hook is strong enough because they are going to Candlekeep entirely on their own whim (the dwarf cleric wishes to look up dwarf clan history).
It will be a curious point in the very early campaign (session three) where anything they find out or do at Candlekeep can lead to...anything. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2013 : 07:54:23
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In terms of quests:
Perhaps the PCs could be sent into the Underdark, there to find an outpost manned by an illithid hailing from Oryndoll, the City of Loretakers and take back whatever irreplaceable lore it was the illithid's minions stole.
Or perhaps the monks require something from Torth's casket deep below Candlekeep, but to do so they must send the PCs to acquire something that will placate Miirym, the Sentinel Wyrm.
I see that your PCs are low level, but I think the material I linked to could be made suitable for lower level characters. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 20 Feb 2013 07:58:08 |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2013 : 09:50:07
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| Thank you for the links, I will look into them :) |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2013 : 13:55:18
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Jeremy, I covered the illithid angle already, and until they've got a lot more levels, trying to deal with even a small settlement like Telectus is suicide. Trying to take on Oryndoll is suicide even for high-level parties.
If the OP wants to turn this into a full-on campaign, the illithid angle could work. In this version it would be something vaguer: get X from Telectus or something similiar, and leave it up to the players to figure out how, and when they're powerful enough. But personally, I wouldn't deal with illithids at that level. The proper response of any Realms adventurer to a mention of illthid is to back slowly away and then turn and run. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11859 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2013 : 15:55:00
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| As mentioned by a previous scribe, a simple solution would be to give them only perfunctory access to the library, with more access being opened as the party does more for Candlekeep. As to a quest for the low level characters, perhaps a powerful noble offers to let Candlekeep copy a recent acquisition of his rather than donating the original to the library. An NPC scribe-priest of Deneir is assigned to be escorted by the party, who will provide simple protection from brigands on the road. Or maybe the book to be scribed is of Dwarven history and there's some special spell on it allowing only a dwarven follower of Moradin to read it, so your dwarven player Eldgrim is sent to help translate. Maybe this is also some kind of test, and there's some lore in the book that Moradin didn't want outsiders to know at the time it was written, but Candlekeep has actually translated it already.... and the test is they want to see if this dwarf who wants access to the library will falsify information, just so they know how much they can trust him. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2013 : 16:39:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Jeremy, I covered the illithid angle already, and until they've got a lot more levels, trying to deal with even a small settlement like Telectus is suicide. Trying to take on Oryndoll is suicide even for high-level parties.
What, there can't be more than one illithid-related suggestion? 
I understand low-level PCs aren't going to be taking on an illithid anytime soon. Perhaps I didn't make it clear in my post that when I suggested modifying the content for the level of the party, I meant for them to go after an isolated outpost, not a settlement or Oryndol proper, and that they'd primarily hunting the minions of an illithid.
In my experience you can do a lot as a DM to make the seemingly impossible, possible. The PCs don't even need to know they're potentially battling an illithid or its minions until they're on the critter's doorstep and discovering things for themselves (which is half the fun).
That and the PCs might be higher level when they get to the Underdark, depending on what order the OP runs the encounters in and whether or not a second or even third quest is doled out from Candlekeep.
Or someone (or something) else could have already taken a shot at the illithid-in-the-outpost, seriously weakening or destroying its defenses and giving the DM a chance to present a scenario where the PCs battle the survivors in ones and twos and where the illithid boss is wounded, in agony and not at full strength, which ought to balance things out for a party of two PCs and one GMPC.
Side note: I don't know where or what Telectus is. Anyone care to share? |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 20 Feb 2013 17:11:09 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2013 : 19:44:37
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| Tellectus (two l's, not one, sorry) was a colony of illithid form Oryndoll that was established under Beregost specifically for the purpose of capturing scholars coming to or from Candlekeep. It was abandoned by the illithid, but some of their servitor creatures still remain, and it's entirely possible some lore does as well. (see: Drizzt's Guide to the Underdark for more) |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2013 : 20:39:41
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| And thanks again, you guys are really helpful! I'm seeing several more possibilities now. It's kind of hard to think "realmsy" after all these years stuck in medieval fantasy rpgs :) Hence the call for ideas, obviously. The Realms are so limitless. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2013 : 21:34:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Tellectus (two l's, not one, sorry) was a colony of illithid form Oryndoll ...
Ah, OK. That's cool.  |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2013 : 22:10:27
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Instead of cluttering the boards with my dumb questions I'll use this thread. The title of the scroll could even be interpreted as a general question type of thread. Anyway, due to real life I haven't gotten around to the session yet but I've been reading a bit in 'Cormyr' and 'The Bloodstone Lands' and these questions popped up. maybe someone can enlighten me :)
1) The story about the witch king of vaasa, is it based on a novel? Or someone's campaign?
2) What was the deal with the castle just appearing (witch king castle)
3) Is Tilverton a city state or part of Cormyr (2nd Ed AD&D), 1366 Dr
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2013 : 07:43:59
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Caladan, have no worries about asking questions in separate scrolls; by all means create whatever scrolls are required to get the answers you need.
Speaking of: Tilverton in 1366 DR is a protectorate of Cormyr. A Cormyrean noblewoman (not a King's Lord) rules the place, along with a Council comprised of locals elected to the post. Over 800 Purple Dragons patrol Tilverton and the surrounding environs, maintaining order and keeping a watchful eye for Zhentarim.
I'm not immediately in the know regarding your first two questions. Never fear: a more knowledgeable scribe than I should come along soon to answer.
Hope this helps. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2013 : 08:49:11
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| Thanks Jeremy, that's how I read it too. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2013 : 20:10:55
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| I guess I should have added that natives of Tilverton would say they're independent, but any Cormyrean (especially on official, soldier or what have you) would say Tilverton more or less is part of Cormyr. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2013 : 23:05:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood
Instead of cluttering the boards with my dumb questions I'll use this thread. The title of the scroll could even be interpreted as a general question type of thread. Anyway, due to real life I haven't gotten around to the session yet but I've been reading a bit in 'Cormyr' and 'The Bloodstone Lands' and these questions popped up. maybe someone can enlighten me :)
1) The story about the witch king of vaasa, is it based on a novel? Or someone's campaign?
2) What was the deal with the castle just appearing (witch king castle)
3) Is Tilverton a city state or part of Cormyr (2nd Ed AD&D), 1366 Dr
1&2) All the bloodstone area stuff comes from the OLD H-series books: Bloodstone Pass (A BattleSystem Book), Mines of Bloodstone, The Bloodstone Wars, Throne Of Bloodstone.
As far as I know they did not get mentioned in any novel until the Rage Series, where Zhengi is history. I don't know if they have a campaign history - that would be a question for Douglas Niles.
I suspect it was all created for the sources, as the first and the last books are both 'new/alternate-rules-system-publications' for TSR. And the material reflected this.
3) Tilverton is part of Cormyr, as per Volo and the Cormyr book.
'officially a protectorate of the Forest Kingdom. It is ruled by a Cormyrean noblewoman, Lady Regent Alasalynn Rowanmantle' |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2013 : 23:07:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Never fear: a more knowledgeable scribe than I should come along soon to answer.
Indeed |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 22:13:53
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
[quote]3) Tilverton is part of Cormyr, as per Volo and the Cormyr book.
Note: Tilverton isn't a part of Cormyr in the same way Westgate or Hilp or Arabel are.
Tilverton is still autonomous and has some degree of sovereignty/independence from Cormyr. It's every bit the frontier town (as it was designed to be  ).
If I were drawing a map showing Cormyr's official borders circa 1366 DR, I'd draw the border south of Tilverton, not north of it, with a further line showing a zone of protection around Tilverton roughly equal to the patrol distance of Purple Dragons riding out of the city.
To me it's obvious Tilverton is (or was, before Shade appeared) eventually going to be absorbed by Cormyr, but that hadn't quite happened by 1366. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 12:12:07
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| Interesting stuff, people, thanks a lot. I kind of like Vaasa and Damara after reading "The Bloodstone Lands" and now I'm curious about those H-modules (which I guess are super high level). Oh well, they are on the "to buy" list like everything else 2nd Ed Realms that I haven't gotten my Malar-blessed claws on yet. |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 23:14:45
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| Another one: Where did the camels in Anauroch come from? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36814 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2013 : 04:22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood
Another one: Where did the camels in Anauroch come from?
When a male camel and a female camel love each other very much... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2013 : 04:59:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood
Another one: Where did the camels in Anauroch come from?
Most likely they came with the Bedine...
Portals from the days of Netheril may have also had a factor in many animals coming to Anauroch...though only those suitable for life there survived. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2013 : 05:06:19
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As for your question regarding the price of books and entry to Candlekeep:
To make a book more valuable, simply make it written by someone that Candlekeep already has almost the entire collection of writings...except the one your player has.
There would be no need of a quest when the book in question is the last needed for Candlekeep to have the entire collection...that price might very well be in excess of 10,000 then.
You can't use the same explanation for both books however...so what the other book doesn't show without a True Seeing spell is that the pages of the Thay book actually teaches the secrets of some magical process hidden within a code in the book. Your player might not know this...but a scribe at candlekeep may have been looking for that very book/secret for decades! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2013 : 19:05:41
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So our session has been postponed and postponed and also postponed again, so I am still waiting for the characters to arrive at Candlekeep. It's given me some time to think, though. I'll be using Ed Greenwood's piece (it's really useful, there's even examples of dialogue for the monks/gate wardens). I've built a small colony of NPCs already on the Way of the Lion standing in a queue to be allowed access (as per Greenwood's piece), so I've planted a few hooks there as well. I liked the suggestion of using Miirym, the Sentinel Wyrm but I think that may complicate things (I'm having a hard time as it is presenting the world so it feels like the Realms), I think I'll relegate her to a rumor overheard (perhaps); the illithids too are a bit too complicated right now, though again, I think I'll throw in a tale about them to enrich play.
As for a quest beginning a campaign arc from Candlekeep, I'm still kind of stumped. Which means I'll let it go, and just see where play takes the characters (after all, they decided on their own to go to Candlekeep, maybe they'll decide on their own where to go next; all I know is that two of the characters have no desire to go south toward Amn). |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31792 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2013 : 23:38:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood
As for a quest beginning a campaign arc from Candlekeep, I'm still kind of stumped. Which means I'll let it go, and just see where play takes the characters (after all, they decided on their own to go to Candlekeep, maybe they'll decide on their own where to go next; all I know is that two of the characters have no desire to go south toward Amn).
With the potential for your characters to have access to some important pieces of lore stored within Candlekeep, you might just have the opportunity to drop a lingering plothook or two that your characters have picked up from a stray line in some obscure text one of your party members just happens to be reading. Which might hint on where they're going next.  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2013 : 15:34:11
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| You could also have the characters fall through a portal in one of the tomes, Myst style. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11859 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2013 : 16:45:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood
Interesting stuff, people, thanks a lot. I kind of like Vaasa and Damara after reading "The Bloodstone Lands" and now I'm curious about those H-modules (which I guess are super high level). Oh well, they are on the "to buy" list like everything else 2nd Ed Realms that I haven't gotten my Malar-blessed claws on yet.
Yeah, those novels are super high level. However, since you're interested in the area, its interesting to note that Zhengyi was a former red wizard (or better way to put it, he was a renegade). That comes from H4 module where they give a minor history of Zhengyi. Now, what if the Monastery of the Yellow Rose actually has a sketchy biography of Zhengyi created by King Virdin Bloodfeather's scribe before he and the king were killed at the ford of Goliad (during the ten years after the Witch King created Castle Perilous). Maybe King Virdin had required his scribe to research the enemy to learn his mindset. The title of the book "Zhengyi: from celebrated Thayan Patriot-hero to exiled Thayan renegade".
Now, what if Candlekeep wants a copy of the book? You already provided them a book on the formation of Thay into Tharchs... Candlekeep might see your PC's as the people to send to get this book. They might then be sent to recover the memoirs of Velsharoon (another Thayan renegade) from the church of Velsharoon located around the Tower Terrible in Soorenar. Finally, based upon information in both of those books, maybe they are sent to Bezantur to search in its City Tombs, because there are rumors that the first Zulkir of Thay, Ythazz Buvaar, is actually still functioning and he would be a valuable source of information. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31792 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2013 : 17:30:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
You could also have the characters fall through a portal in one of the tomes, Myst style.
As a long-time Myst-fan, I find this to be a very cool idea!
...
Heh. I've already laid suggestions in my Realms that hint of an offshoot of the Imaskari people... who call themselves the D'ni. The "Writing" of Ages ability of these D'ni is somewhat comparable to the portal crafting skill of the Imaskari, I think -- only taken to a new and interesting level. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Madmage
Acolyte
26 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2013 : 21:16:07
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Some other suggestions would be that the characters' are carrying the original manuscripts penned by the original author(s) where as Candlekeep only has those that were later copied. This makes the books themselves be considered more valuable even though they might not have anything new to offer. Other options are to have them include commentaries. It was somewhat typical for sages to add their own two cents to further expand, contradict or add their personal twist to a book. Say the book on Thay includes a commentary by a notable Zulkir current or past that added his/her own insight into the proceedings.
As for adventure hooks following their entry to Candlekeep, why not use the books themselves? Maybe one of the librarians upon reading the high moor herb book wants the PCs to retrieve some rare herbs in question? Perhaps have the players follow up on something that the original author didn't explore sufficiently to the librarians' liking. |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 19:22:36
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I - by accident actually - stumbled upon a Living Forgotten Realms adventure online for low-level characters starting in Candlekeep and focusing on Baldur's Gate which gave me some ideas as well. In addition I'll be adding more potential hooks from your suggestions, y'all, so thanks again.
However, reading through piles of sources over the last month or so(heck it's even longer, where does time go), I've come to a point where I am wondering how people deal with the abundance of magic in the setting. Questions like, "Why do those who can cast Detect Lie spells not rule the world, or at the very least be employed everywhere there's need for law enforcement and such?; know what I mean?
I decided to have a monk at Candlekeep steal away a tome of lore and flee to Baldur's Gate; this is the core I stole from the Living FR adventure - but how could this monk do it, what with the incredibly tight security at Candlekeep? First I thought of having the other monks at the keep discover a letter sent to the thief from family who are in dire need (so the monk stole the book to sell it, to gain coin for the family; that would be a nice dilemma for the PCs), but then I began to wonder if that idea worked at all. Then I decided to have the thief *forge* such a letter to lead the other monks astray, and that in reality the thief is a follower of some evil or chaotic deity and wants to return the tome (which in this idea is a religious work with spells and stuff) to his clergy.
So now I don't know which option to go for - monk who wants to help his family (which seems a bit weird, considering how much money he could get from an awesome tome - but if the tome isn't awesome, it wouldn't be such a big deal that it was stolen), or that he is a monk or .. .bah. |
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A Quest from Candlekeep
