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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1882 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 00:17:23
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I'm interested in knowing if anyone has effectively removed (killed off), ignored (never placed) or otherwise dumped a race from the your Realms campaign and why.
For me, I removed the off-shoot elven races (aquatic, avariel, and lythari(I think that's what they are called). I also promptly ignored the addition of 'jungle' and 'arctic' dwarves. Maybe it's just me, but sometimes more is actually less.
If I decide that aquatic elves exist, it will only be to secure the existence of Myth Nantar, which I'm not, at present, inclined to do.
There are also relatively 'minor' races that I've never used (the kenku come to mind). Usually this is because I find the race uninteresting.
I also have to say that the Realms seems a bit full of reptilian races. I know why they exist, but there are so many of them that I think there should be a major kingdom (beyond the Vilhon Reach) to represent them.
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I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 01:35:07
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All the races you name in my book would not qualify as MAJOR races - they are area specific and even then they are VERY rare. You can go up into the mountains in the north and odds are you'll never meet an avariel. Most elves think they are extinct.
Artic dwarves while not near mythical are located in a location that 99.99999 percent of people will never go, and have no desire to.
I'd say there is not much reason to get rid of aquatic elves if you have an ocean based or under water campaign. But if not there is no reason you'll ever encounter one.
As for the serpent races, they were expanded a lot in the Serpent kingdoms book - which revealed that they DO have kingdoms, just in areas little traveled.
The major races I have no intention on adding to any campaign are all the new 4th ED ones. "Genasai" are an example. Also, while I have no problem having aboleth in the world, the whole "aberrations" plot lime will never get anywhere near my realms.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 01:51:50
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I've never used the Loxo or the Thr-Kreen. Not that I've dumped them completely - I just haven't figured out an interesting way to use them.
In my current campaign I've made minor tweaks to the core races, but haven't dropped any. My Elves are more reclusive and xenophobic, the Drow are pasty-white, the dwarves are secretive and in possession of more tech then they let on (and the Duergar are just 'bad dwarves', not an Underdark race). I've decided to play the Halflings as a nomadic race with two branches - a 'raftfolk' group based on the Rhennee Bargefolk of Greyhawk and a gypsy-like group that travel about in wagons (along with all the other tropes - the women have 'the sight' and read fortunes, etc). There are also some fairly 'feral' tribes of them down on my Chultan subcontinent (including some Eberron-style lizard riders and even some athasian cannibals).
Haven't figured out what to do with the gnomes. I am considering merging them with the Harry Potter goblins and doing something along the lines of how they were portrayed in Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magic (money-grubbing businessmen), but I also like Pathfinder's (Golarion) take on them. Not sure yet - the players haven't run into any gnomes yet so I have time. The campaign is only a few weeks old so I haven't had to address a lot of these issues yet.
I also got rid of the avariel and aquatic elves (I just have Tritons in fresh water and Merfolk in salt). I 'might' replace the avariels with the Raptorans, but I'd tweak the heck out of them first. I like the Lythari, so I gave my wood Elves a bit of an Elfquest spin (so they are all shapeshifters). Not a big fan of all the reptilian races either - I've merged most of them into a 'Saurians' race.
The biggest change - I merged all the aberrations into a single race in which individuals develop along radically different lines. I can still keep most of the fluff the same for them - they don't all get along. I've also re-imagined the giants into a single race that gains elemental templates. I've done some weird things with Ogres and Trolls as well. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Feb 2013 01:58:00 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 02:21:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I've never used the Loxo or the Thr-Kreen. Not that I've dumped them completely - I just haven't figured out an interesting way to use them.
In my current campaign I've made minor tweaks to the core races, but haven't dropped any. My Elves are more reclusive and xenophobic, the Drow are pasty-white, the dwarves are secretive and in possession of more tech then they let on (and the Duergar are just 'bad dwarves', not an Underdark race). I've decided to play the Halflings as a nomadic race with two branches - a 'raftfolk' group based on the Rhennee Bargefolk of Greyhawk and a gypsy-like group that travel about in wagons (along with all the other tropes - the women have 'the sight' and read fortunes, etc). There are also some fairly 'feral' tribes of them down on my Chultan subcontinent (including some Eberron-style lizard riders and even some athasian cannibals).
Haven't figured out what to do with the gnomes. I am considering merging them with the Harry Potter goblins and doing something along the lines of how they were portrayed in Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magic (money-grubbing businessmen), but I also like Pathfinder's (Golarion) take on them. Not sure yet - the players haven't run into any gnomes yet so I have time. The campaign is only a few weeks old so I haven't had to address a lot of these issues yet.
I also got rid of the avariel and aquatic elves (I just have Tritons in fresh water and Merfolk in salt). I 'might' replace the avariels with the Raptorans, but I'd tweak the heck out of them first. I like the Lythari, so I gave my wood Elves a bit of an Elfquest spin (so they are all shapeshifters). Not a big fan of all the reptilian races either - I've merged most of them into a 'Saurians' race.
The biggest change - I merged all the aberrations into a single race in which individuals develop along radically different lines. I can still keep most of the fluff the same for them - they don't all get along. I've also re-imagined the giants into a single race that gains elemental templates. I've done some weird things with Ogres and Trolls as well.
You'd make my brain hurt if I was one of your players :P |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 02:41:26
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| Interesting. In my own campaigns, I've gone the opposite route, although I refuse to use the Dragonborn- I prefer the older half-dragons. I have divided my lizardfolk into several branches, from an article in Dragon magazine toward the end of 2nd ed- it had Arguthras (monitor type) three types of Iguanids (aquatic, rock, and jungle) Crocadilians (Crocs, obviously) and Geckonids (gecko type0. That and adding catfolk are the only real race-related alterations I've made- but then again, I don't play/run the Realms, so take it as you will. However, much of my HB world was inspired by work done for the Realms, so I suppose it counts. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1882 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 03:14:52
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I've been thinking a bit on logistics concerning all of the races lately. With so many species in the game it's hard to imagine a world without constant warfare (I mean REALLY constant) as various creature vie for living space. Seems to me that some races would be driven to near extinction, so that somewhat helps keep the populations down. Problem is, some of these races are so strong that it seems very unrealistic to have, say the beholders and all their respective subspecies, driven to the brink.
It seems to me, despite the size of the Realms, that more space would be needed to encompass all these cultures and creatures. I'm thinking the planet actually needs to be bigger. Adding more landmass would shrink the oceans which would drastically alter the planetary climate (if one likes a certain level of realism in a fantasy game). 
I know I'm over thinking this and the Realms is a fantasy world. But sometimes I just have to wonder about these things.  |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4213 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 03:36:59
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I've done all sorts of things in the past...from introducing even more races, to changing the ones there.
In the current campaign I'm TRYING to run despite natural disaster and such, things are going to be pretty "normal" in the Forgotten Realms.
One thing I'm adding is the Five Shires MT helped me with to the shores south of Sembia...and because of that Duergar are being tweaked a bit. Instead of flatly evil, I'm going to be treating them more as dwarves with evil bent...so more like the dwarves of Krynn treat the evil kin they have: at family reunions it gets kinda uncomfortable, but they don't flat out slay each other unless there is a standing animosity from past feuds.
I'm also going to treat "Grey Orcs" as just standard orcs..."Grey" and "Mountain" orcs are going to just be more of a cultural thing.
Elves are going to be much more territorial also...but that isn't anything different than the Old Grey Box.
As to how so many different races "fit" into the Forgotten Realms is because there IS room for them all. Even in "heavily populated" lands such as Cormyr, there is actually LOTS of places that simply aren't used by humans.
Also, keep in mind, that the races of Faerun have always been side by side...to a degree. It isn't much different than the various ethnic groups in our own world. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 04:26:03
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| For my games I pretty much allow everything printed for the Realms, but thankfully my players never got more exotic then a half-drow in their PC race choices (or a hobgoblin for a cohort), and I never made a point of calling out an NPC's or Monster's sub-race during encounters--I just used the sub-race's stats and called it whatever the name for the generic form of the creature was. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 05:00:47
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
I'm interested in knowing if anyone has effectively removed (killed off), ignored (never placed) or otherwise dumped a race from the your Realms campaign and why.
For me, I removed the off-shoot elven races (aquatic, avariel, and lythari(I think that's what they are called). I also promptly ignored the addition of 'jungle' and 'arctic' dwarves. Maybe it's just me, but sometimes more is actually less.
I'm very much not a fan of arctic or jungle dwarves. Other than the korobukuru of Kara-Tur, I prefer the traditional dwarven races. If it wasn't for an arctic dwarf appearing in a novel, I'd happily leave the race out of the Realms.
I like aquatic elves, avariel, and lythari, myself, though I'd keep the latter two races mostly isolated. Star elves, on the other hand, I don't have much use for.
I would pretty much stick with the races described in 3E FR material. None of the stuff from the Races of splats, except maybe the dragonborn of Races of the Dragon. Certainly not the 4E dragonborn, unless they were renamed and had an entirely different backstory that didn't involve Abeir at all.
Oh, and as I've mentioned elsewhere... My Realms would include small numbers of shifters and changelings. Shifters would be offspring of lycanthropes who didn't get the full dose of lycanthropy, or their descendants. Changelings would be the spawn of half-doppelgangers. Both would be really rare, though shifters would be more common than changelings. For changelings, I'd have maybe a dozen in a city the size of Waterdeep. Shifters would be less common than lycanthropes. And of course I'd import warforged, using my Living Constructs of the Realms: Wooly's Warforged articles. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 05:46:13
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I keep the aquatic races around. Of course they are almost exclusively limited to aquatic campaigning ... and those able to survive out of water tend to suffer enough penalties that PCs won't mix and match without good reason. Underwater campaigns are great fun (or make for interesting diversions) but I find they get stale pretty quick, and aquatic races then fade into the background.
I've kept arctic dwarves, jungle dwarves, avariels, lythari, kenku, minotaurs, etc etc in my settings, but as mentioned above, these races tend to be extraordinarily rare or limited in regional scope. They're essentially NPC-only, will almost never join a PC party, and even then will tend to adventure only long enough to ensure some particular task, mission, or objective is completed. Variety is good, in small doses, but a party of nothing but circus freaks is bad. Note that I happily include drow, duergar, svirfnebs, half-orcs, and other "standard" PC races in this category ... these races are basically never played in my gaming, or only played by those willing to endure real penalties and restrictions.
1E/2E cambions, alu-fiends, tieflings, genasi, and a small variety of conservative 3E-inspired outsider types are preferred over their later-edition counterparts. 4E tieflings are too bland, too non-evil, and too homogenized to be of any interest to me, plus I utterly reject their clumsy retconned inclusion within existing D&D settings. Besides, these varied planar crossbreeds are the staple of Planescape and almost entirely unknown in places like the Realms.
3E dragonborn were never introduced; 2E saurials, lizardmen, half-dragons, beastmen, Krynnborn draconians, and many other reptilian sorts provide plenty of variety. Plus there's dozens of mammalian humanoid sophonts, it hardly seems fair to lump all the many reptile types into generic and oversimplified "scaly-folk" or "dragonborn" categories.
3E warforged are utterly ignored; I've already heard many arguments about how much cool "roleplaying" pwnage I'm missing ... but in the end I am firmly convinced that steampunky talking Iron Man suits and "emotionless" half-human androids belong in other RPGs, not in medieval-ish fantasy D&D gaming.
Likewise, forget the 3E shifters and 4E goliaths other wierdo races. Nothing wrong with twenty monster manuals full of 2E dopplegangers and giant-kin and the rest.
4E eladrin are utterly ignored; they're nowhere near as interesting as 2E (planar) eladrin and the pile of clearly defined elven subtropes, and I think elves are so deeply entrenched within Realms history that it's futile (and needlessly confusing) to completely redefine or rewrite their entire racial identity. And this attitude comes from a guy who doesn't even like elves.
To my mind being a shadovar is something like being a lich or a vampire. Unavailable until the character can figure out how to survive the transformation, it just isn't a race option at level one.
Apologies for Wall Of Text. You asked. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 04 Feb 2013 06:02:47 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 08:07:22
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we're not allowed to pick loxos, giffs, wemics and similar
genasi are renamed according to Pathfinder, e.g. air genasi is sylph
aasimars are called the azure
half-elves choose like Elrond/Elros did
warforged are banned, their stats are used for a construct race called the re-made
changelings are humans kidnapped by fey, not doppelgangers |
Edited by - Quale on 04 Feb 2013 08:09:23 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 13:09:07
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My Realms are still the 2e Realms, and use the 2e races. I don't have much problem with any of the 2e races, though I've never had a jungle or arctic dwarf show up, nor an avariel. I really like Seros, so sea elves have definitely appeared in the past. Wood and wild elves are the same elves (that was one of 3e's stupider design choices, IMO), and star elves, if it comes to it, are just moon elves with a different backstory.
I generally restrtict my campaigns to the standard PHB races and their Realms off-shoots. I do have Thri-Kreen of Athas and Complete Book of Humanoids, so it's possible something else could get played, but generally it's a complication I don't seek out. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 13:22:10
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@Dalor - it sounds like you've done very similar things as myself.
@Wooly - I've got shifters as well, but I tied it all together with Lythari and aberrations (sounds convoluted, but really its not - it has to do with my Batrachi creator race and their 'morphic blood').
@Quale - I went a bit further with the PF rules - I've 'Golarionized' everything in my current Realms, so the adaption of those rules to FR would be easier. I love their gnomes, but I'm not sure how to work those in.... yet. I've considered making them an entirely new (not really) race called 'Duende' (the group all the brownies, leprecauns, etc come from). Haven't decided yet.
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
You'd make my brain hurt if I was one of your players
The thing is, my players are never allowed to know how things work by looking in a book, or just plain meta-gaming knowledge. Each encounter should be a learning experience - part of the fun is discovering stuff about the world.
One of the worst things about being an FR-DM is running into players who know more then you - its the setting's one downfall. That's why I change it all up. 
Its also why I love training new groups of kids to play - older players loose that feeling of wonder you get.
Its not as bad as you think - if you look at the changes I made outside of our own meta-gaming knowledge, I've actually downsized things quite a bit and simplified everything. I neither want nor need two versions of dragonborn, two versions of Tieflings, 20+ races of giants, a billion variations of undead - I can use my imagination to give them all those differences from encounter to encounter. D&D is just too damn 'messy' - I don't know how the authors deal with it all. Show me another (non-Scify) world with hundreds of intelligent species - the logic just breaks down at a certain point. In fact, some of my favorite fantasy series are humanocentric (everything non-human being a 'monster'), like Song of Fire & Ice.
Come to think of it, I think I run my worlds a lot like LotR - the races tend not to bother with each other (and when they do, it usually leads to conflict). When everything else that can speak and/or think is technically 'a monster', then you've got the ultimate PoL setting. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Feb 2013 13:36:22 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 15:05:34
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| I tend toward a policy of "all-inclusiveness" when it comes to races for my Realms. In fact, it's even been argued by some of my players that I've come to actually hoard races, rather than dump them. Even if I can't find a place for a particular race that's been detailed in a source I may be reading, I'll still collect all the relevant racial information about them and place it in my campaign notebooks -- whereupon I will try to work them into the firmament of my Realms. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 20:25:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Quale - I went a bit further with the PF rules - I've 'Golarionized' everything in my current Realms, so the adaption of those rules to FR would be easier. I love their gnomes, but I'm not sure how to work those in.... yet. I've considered making them an entirely new (not really) race called 'Duende' (the group all the brownies, leprecauns, etc come from). Haven't decided yet.
Our explanation for the Bleaching was a disease or curse originating from the Grey Waste, the night hags are most likely responsible, or yugoloths.
I agree that there are too many redundant races, e.g. five types of law-touched, no one will ever use them. I've added their racial traits to the alternate traits of standard races. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 20:45:11
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| I could never agree with the notion of taking feats to suddenly activate "dormant" bloodlines and tribal pedigrees and racial heritages. To my mind you're either born with Adonis blood or you're not, and the trait will be manifest regardless of your experience levels. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 21:20:18
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I tend toward a policy of "all-inclusiveness" when it comes to races for my Realms. In fact, it's even been argued by some of my players that I've come to actually hoard races, rather than dump them. Even if I can't find a place for a particular race that's been detailed in a source I may be reading, I'll still collect all the relevant racial information about them and place it in my campaign notebooks -- whereupon I will try to work them into the firmament of my Realms.
I have always let my players play whatever races they wanted, as long as they put a little of work into the back story. The many varied races of D&D are one of my favorite parts. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 22:51:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I tend toward a policy of "all-inclusiveness" when it comes to races for my Realms. In fact, it's even been argued by some of my players that I've come to actually hoard races, rather than dump them. Even if I can't find a place for a particular race that's been detailed in a source I may be reading, I'll still collect all the relevant racial information about them and place it in my campaign notebooks -- whereupon I will try to work them into the firmament of my Realms.
I have always let my players play whatever races they wanted, as long as they put a little of work into the back story. The many varied races of D&D are one of my favorite parts.
I'm pretty much the same way with my players. As long as they can explain how/why their PC got to be who and where they are, I usually allow it. However, I have learned the hard way that NO WAY will I let anyone play a race with more than a +3 LA- TOPS! Usually it has to be +2 or less, unless they have a REALLY good reason. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 23:30:30
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| I think the realms have room for everything...the world is huge! I would not let players be anything though for the sake of balance. I don't think the world is too crowded...many species exist in very small numbers. Like there are probably few arctic dwarves because the arctic is so harsh and they've never come up because I've never played a game in an arctic setting. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 23:50:47
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It's a bit cruel and unrealistic to say "the party has one vampire, one carnivorous thri-kreen, and eleven juicy halflings" and either handwave their blatantly obvious incompatibility or force them to "find a way to solve their problems in game".
I say cruel because adventuring halflings tend to taste really gamey. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1882 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 01:58:31
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quote:
I neither want nor need two versions of dragonborn, two versions of Tieflings, 20+ races of giants, a billion variations of undead - I can use my imagination to give them all those differences from encounter to encounter. D&D is just too damn 'messy' - I don't know how the authors deal with it all. Show me another (non-Scify) world with hundreds of intelligent species - the logic just breaks down at a certain point.
This
It's not that I don't like the races, it's that so many of them seems unrealistic. That said, I have toyed with the idea of adding shifters, warforged, and changelings to my world. I don't suppose I could prevail upon you guys to send your personal write-ups on how you did this? |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
896 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 02:38:09
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Not of fan of 4e dragonborn or Eberron's sentient half-golems. I once introduced Sharakims, but quickly got bored of their official backstory (cursed humans). I'll either never use them again or retcon their origin.
There are hundreds of sentient creatures/humanoids I never used, but not because I don't want them in my realms, I'm just more inclined to use classics than obscure races. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 03:44:23
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
quote:
I neither want nor need two versions of dragonborn, two versions of Tieflings, 20+ races of giants, a billion variations of undead - I can use my imagination to give them all those differences from encounter to encounter. D&D is just too damn 'messy' - I don't know how the authors deal with it all. Show me another (non-Scify) world with hundreds of intelligent species - the logic just breaks down at a certain point.
This
It's not that I don't like the races, it's that so many of them seems unrealistic. That said, I have toyed with the idea of adding shifters, warforged, and changelings to my world. I don't suppose I could prevail upon you guys to send your personal write-ups on how you did this?
My post links to my personal write-ups of Realmsified warforged. As for shifters and changelings, I don't have a lot more than what's in that same post. Bringing them in is relatively simple, so I've not felt the need to do any kind of write-up for them.
Heck, treat them like 3E genasi: at some point in the past, a shifter or a changeling had an ancestor that wasn't fully human. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 14:29:49
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I think the realms have room for everything...the world is huge!
THIS
There are tons and tons of things I've 'filed away', and in that regard I am a lot like Sage. I don't necessarily dump something that has potential just because it doesn't fit into what I am currently running. I have imagined many, many things I've never used on other continents, just in case I want to use just one at a later date.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I could never agree with the notion of taking feats to suddenly activate "dormant" bloodlines and tribal pedigrees and racial heritages. To my mind you're either born with Adonis blood or you're not, and the trait will be manifest regardless of your experience levels.
Its actually a major fantasy trope - 'the kid' turns out to be 'the one'.
For instance - before 4e stole the term and took it in another direction - we had 'racial paragon' PrCs, which was a great idea that they just abandoned. There are Elves... and then there is that one elf that "embodies all things Elfy".
To each their own; 'bloodlines' are a major aspect of my homebrew world, and my current FR (re-imagined) campaign is a test-bad for a lot of my ideas. I just wanted a better (more 'scientific') explanation of how templates work. Many RW species have life-stages, and I think that there is no reason why many intelligent fantasy races can't embrace that. I don't do it with everything, and there are three (major) forms - apotheosis, infection, and heritage.
Have you ever read any Larry Niven? He has some amazing ideas in his books, like the fact that humans are really an 'unfinished' larval state of something much greater. Weird, I know... but very cool.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 14:47:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I think the realms have room for everything...the world is huge!
THIS
There are tons and tons of things I've 'filed away', and in that regard I am a lot like Sage. I don't necessarily dump something that has potential just because it doesn't fit into what I am currently running. I have imagined many, many things I've never used on other continents, just in case I want to use just one at a later date.
Often, I'll come across a reference from some obscure source that might not have anything even remotely to do with the Realms or D&D, and it will trigger the potential in my mind for some new race to use in my FR.
For example, take the ghost bears [the actual ursine species native to the world of Strana Mechty, and not the Clan warriors] of BATTLETECH. I was struck by some of their curious natural abilities and appearance, and so I begun crafting a possible race based on this that I might later find a place for in my Realms. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 15:46:05
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I don't think I've ever dismissed/tossed a race out. I've barred players from taking specific races because either A) it didn't fit with the current campaign area or B) it was so horribly broken (not in a uber-powerful way, but literally had horrid mechanics) that it was a deterrent to the game because the other players would need to pick up their slack. This is, however, from a strictly 3rd Editin point of view.
For my 4E games, I allow pretty much everything except perhaps Muls (Dark Sun human + dwarven offspring) and Kalashtar (psionic people of Eberron). Shifters, Goliaths, Warforged, Thri-Kreen, Dragonborn, Tiefling (any demonic/devilish appearance works fine, I'm not picky), Eladrin, Deva/Aasimar, Shades, CORE Races, Minotaurs, etc. are all welcome so long as it comes with a fun and compelling backstory. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 16:17:26
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I think the realms have room for everything...the world is huge!
THIS
There are tons and tons of things I've 'filed away', and in that regard I am a lot like Sage. I don't necessarily dump something that has potential just because it doesn't fit into what I am currently running. I have imagined many, many things I've never used on other continents, just in case I want to use just one at a later date.
Often, I'll come across a reference from some obscure source that might not have anything even remotely to do with the Realms or D&D, and it will trigger the potential in my mind for some new race to use in my FR.
For example, take the ghost bears [the actual ursine species native to the world of Strana Mechty, and not the Clan warriors] of BATTLETECH. I was struck by some of their curious natural abilities and appearance, and so I begun crafting a possible race based on this that I might later find a place for in my Realms.
Are you going to make them intelligent bears?
If so, you may want to check out the book The Golden Compass. I didn't really care for the book, myself, but it had intelligent bears, with their own society and civilization, in there. It was one of the few things about the book I really found intriguing.
I can see modeling them into ghost bears -- especially since the names they used would also fit for Clan Ghost Bear! |
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe
Australia
243 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 08:37:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The major races I have no intention on adding to any campaign are all the new 4th ED ones. "Genasai" are an example.
Which edition did Genasi come into existence in? I know their appearance changed in 4th ed, but that implies they existed BEFORE 4th ed.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I've never used the Loxo or the Thr-Kreen. Not that I've dumped them completely - I just haven't figured out an interesting way to use them.
I don't see me ever using the Loxo. I just find the idea too laughable. I know, I know. I can happily have Yakmen and Gnolls and all sorts of monstrosities. But Loxo... They just look too funny.
I use all the races that have a place in the Forgotten Realms (or at least, I think they have a place).
I've transformed Goliaths into Taer. They were a late 3.5e addition and don't seem to have a defined place in the Forgotten Realms. As such I've simply combined the two races and added a note that "human explorers who come across Taer settlements sometimes refer to them as Goliaths." Now we've got "Goliaths" in the Forgotten Realms but they're actually a race that already existed.
I've done the same with Shifters. I've transformed them into Lythari (elven lycanthrope type people). Much like Goliaths, I just found them too generic in the Forgotten Realms (given they're originally an Eberron race). Call them Lythari and say they've descended from elven lycanthropes and they work perfectly. I did have to remove the Lythari ability to transform into wolves at will. However I've explained it by saying "Many Lythari choose to become druids. These druids will occasionally congregate for dire threats or special nights and go about their sacred duties in the shape of an animal. Most often a wolf." This keeps the canon mentions of "Lythari can transform into wolves" but allow the race to be a PC race.
4th ed Eladrin have been incorporate into 1357 DR. I'm calling them "Half-Eladrin". Celadrin are born from the union of a true eladrin and a sun elf. What results when a true eladrin breeds with a different type of elf has not been specified, giving me room to introduce new types of "half-eladrin". As a nod to 4th ed I've included the line "some humans mistake half-eladrin with true eladrins." My Celadrin don't have a teleport ability (instead getting fire resistance like their 3.5e versions), but should WotC produce an ability that allows teleportation I could either include it as a feat for Celadrin or as a new "half-eladrin" subrace.
Dragonborn don't exist on my Toril. I really wanted to include them but they just don't belong. I can't find any races that I could "turn them into" and so I can't incorporate them in the Forgotten Realms (my campaign starts at 1357 DR).
Warforged do not exist in 1357 DR. Whether they may appear in the future or not is a mystery.
Shades aren't a PC race given that my forgotten realms is starting in 1357 DR.
Kenku are a race I intend to really play up. The reason for that is it's canon that they exist in human cities so I'm quite happy to include them. But I view them as being the equivalent of Dark Sun Elves. And I love my Dark Sun Elves and relish in the opportunity to use them in D&D.
Tieflings, Genasi and Aasimars are included. But they tend to be rather rare (much like WotC sorcerers) and will just appear as the child of two human parents.
With the revelation that Minotaurs existed in Ed's home game and that TSR downplayed their existence due to Krynn "owning" minotaurs, I've expanded on a minotaur settlement near the Labyrinth. Unfortunately cultists of Baphomet held a coup and took over the city. Many minotaurs fled their home as refugees and now live in major cities across Faerun as a displaced people. There are, of course, other minotaur cities out there. But these aren't available to PCs and knowledge about them isn't common (i.e. I haven't made them up yet).
Thri-kreen exist in the canon locations for that race to exist in. However they are not PC playable as they are not permitted in the majority of human settlements that can be found across Faerun due to their monstrous appearance. Should the players journey to a thri-kreen heavy area and need to create a PC they'll be permitted to choose a thri-kreen (with the understanding their character will not be treated as a person should they leave the thri-kreen heavy area and likely be locked up or killed).
Githzerai exist in monasteries hidden across Toril. But due to their strange appearance they're not welcomed in cities and such. Also due to their monastic tendencies and their battle with mindflayers, they typically don't travel to the settlements of other races (instead dealing with a handful of merchants who come to them). So they're not a PC race.
Drow are not permitted as a PC race. They are a villain race (as are Dopplegangers. After I utilise doppelgangers as a big bad villain for a storyline I would probably open up the race to players. But at this stage I want doppelgangers and drow to be seen as mysterious and exotic. Not to be viewed as the equivalent of a dwarf or halfling).
For me I'm trying to include every race I can and still enjoy playing. At the moment I'm DMing a Pathfinder campaign (Carrion Crown) and I essentially forced my players to only play humans. Likewise in Dark Sun I've permitted these races and no other (not even subraces. There are just 9 playable races and THAT's it!).
So with Forgotten Realms I want to say "open up a D&D book and point to a race and that's a playable race in my campaign." But to enjoy the Realms I need the races to exist in a manner that makes sense to the greater world at large. So I've added in SOME restrictions. |
DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures. |
Edited by - JohnLynch on 06 Feb 2013 08:39:48 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 11:48:18
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The major races I have no intention on adding to any campaign are all the new 4th ED ones. "Genasai" are an example.
Which edition did Genasi come into existence in? I know their appearance changed in 4th ed, but that implies they existed BEFORE 4th ed.
Tieflings and genasi date back to 2E, though they weren't a Realms race until 3E. Prior to 4E, their physical differences were usually just skin tone, or something else minor -- they appeared mostly human. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 06 Feb 2013 11:52:22 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 14:08:10
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Genasi just don't 'do it for me'. I haven't actually dumped them, I just choose to ignore them. I suppose if a player wanted to use one I'd allow it (I'd rather them be something extremely rare).
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
I don't see me ever using the Loxo. I just find the idea too laughable. I know, I know. I can happily have Yakmen and Gnolls and all sorts of monstrosities. But Loxo... They just look too funny.
Loxo I don't mind so much... just don't get me started on the Giff.
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
I've transformed Goliaths into Taer. They were a late 3.5e addition and don't seem to have a defined place in the Forgotten Realms. As such I've simply combined the two races and added a note that "human explorers who come across Taer settlements sometimes refer to them as Goliaths." Now we've got "Goliaths" in the Forgotten Realms but they're actually a race that already existed.
Thats an interesting take. I felt the Goliaths were WAY too redundant with DOZENS of other races, so I just made them an offshoot of Stone Giants (or Stone Giants could possibly be an offshoot of them - haven't worked out any of that yet). I just say they are 'from the East', so unless I head into the Hordelands and beyond I don't have to worry about them.
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
I've done the same with Shifters. I've transformed them into Lythari (elven lycanthrope type people). Much like Goliaths, I just found them too generic in the Forgotten Realms (given they're originally an Eberron race). Call them Lythari and say they've descended from elven lycanthropes and they work perfectly. I did have to remove the Lythari ability to transform into wolves at will. However I've explained it by saying "Many Lythari choose to become druids. These druids will occasionally congregate for dire threats or special nights and go about their sacred duties in the shape of an animal. Most often a wolf." This keeps the canon mentions of "Lythari can transform into wolves" but allow the race to be a PC race.
I've gone slightly different route - all my Wood Elves are a type of Lythari (except not all of them become wolves - some have other forms), and the 'curse' of (inherited) Lycanthropy comes from human/lythari crossbreeds (half-elves). It doesn't always manifest - its recessive gene. I don't actually use the word 'Shifters' for them.
I use the term 'shifters' for my version of Eberron's Changelings (I positively hate the fact that they used that term for those things). Their backstory is similar to EB's though - they are the product of Morphic Blood (Dopplegangers breeding with humans).
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
4th ed Eladrin...
No Eladin on my world. I do not use 4th edition rules, so their is absolutely NO reason to incorporate that very messy term into my campaign. I have Gold and Silver elves, as it should be.
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
Dragonborn don't exist on my Toril. I really wanted to include them but they just don't belong. I can't find any races that I could "turn them into" and so I can't incorporate them in the Forgotten Realms (my campaign starts at 1357 DR).
I think this is one of those races that I am just going to handwave as 'from elsewhere' (one of the many other continents never detailed). That means I can use them (and so could a player if they begged really nicely), but I don't want to have to think about them much beyond that.
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
Kenku are a race I intend to really play up. The reason for that is it's canon that they exist in human cities so I'm quite happy to include them. But I view them as being the equivalent of Dark Sun Elves. And I love my Dark Sun Elves and relish in the opportunity to use them in D&D.
Interesting take. I have never used Kenku because I haven't thought of a good way to do so. In fact, I've never used any of the 'bird people'. But now you have me thinking that the Kenku are the 'drow' of the avian races... thats pretty damn cool.
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
Tieflings, Genasi and Aasimars are included. But they tend to be rather rare (much like WotC sorcerers) and will just appear as the child of two human parents.
AGREED - not everything need its own kingdom and society. Half-elves and Half-Orcs have been doing just fine without those for 5 editions (including OD&D). That was just some plain bad design right there.
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
With the revelation that Minotaurs existed in Ed's home game...
I love Minotaurs - always have. I have two varieties - one large and feral, and one more sophisticated and similar to the Krynn ones (although I am still conflicted about which way to spin that - which group is the offshoot of the other.)
I've never used Githzerai, but if I did they would be monsters, along with the drow. Not everything has to be a 'playable race'. I'd go so far as to allow a half-drow (because that could lead to some very interesting RP opportunities). I started out as a GH-DM, and my Drow are NASTY, with NO exceptions. Drizzt is just a myth created by drow agents to make people hesitate about killing them on-sight (but they still do).
Seriously - you want the perfect PoL setting, then everything non-human should be a 'monster', including the other core races. I'm not saying players shouldn't be allowed to play them, but the world should be a 'dark and scary place', and non-humans should NOT be 'the norm', IMO. By the same token, Elves and dwarves should also view all the other races as 'monsters' (along with just about everyone else).
I guess I'm a bit old-school; a party consisting of drow, genasi, tieflings, dragonborn, etc don't just "walk into a bar". Uh-uh... not on MY planet they don't. I put them on the first transport to Tatooine and the Mos Eisley cantina. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Feb 2013 14:14:08 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 23:06:48
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| Interesting. I tend to go the opposite route. I will use just about any race as a playable race in my campaigns, provided I can make it fit into my world somewhere, and that it makes sense. No Loxo, though- I've never cared for them, though I HAVe used Giff as NPC's. I've even used some Arcanes. The few races that I don't allow are the 4th Dragonborn or Eladrins (I refuse to use or play any 4th ed)- it's strictly the 3.5 or earlier versions of those two. And the Eladrins are still planar bings in my games, so not playable. Instead of Dragonborn, I just use the Half-dragon for all draconic PC's or NPC's. It's the only draconic race that makes any sense to me from a world-building standpoint, sort of like Half-elves. |
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Any races dumped from Your Realms?
