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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 04:33:53
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| Cherrn, Cyric's divine rank is 17, and so is Bane's. It's really not that impressive since even Chauntea's is 19 and Mystra's divine rank is 18. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 11:39:54
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yes but mystra did get a whole lot power from the former Mystra and Chauntea is ancient and i do belive Silvanus to have 19.
And Cyric claimed his power and this place is just swarming with the followers of a lesser god all of his followers must be her  .
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Edited by - Cyric on 01 Feb 2004 11:44:39 |
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Fibura Gauntlet
Seeker
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 14:08:46
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I've always loved the concept of divine ranks, not only do they help solve all those "my God is bigger than your God" arguments, but they also serve as a helpful reminder that the Gods aren't omnipotent, omniscient beings at all, just high-level NPCs  |
- Fibura Gauntlet
A scrib(bl)e on the margins of Candlekeep |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 14:11:28
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Cherrn, Cyric's divine rank is 17, and so is Bane's. It's really not that impressive since even Chauntea's is 19 and Mystra's divine rank is 18.
Yes but above mentioned are greater gods. It was mentioned in one of the sourcebooks that a god could not be defeated by anyone in his/her own plane by anyone who is not at a higher divine lvl. In Cyric's case it would have to be an overpower who were to destroy him. After all, you gotta remember that Cyric can deny everyone else access to his own plane if he wishes except for Mask who is god of thieves and can thus access all planes. But I seriously doubt that Mask wants to get close to Cyric these days. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 15:53:59
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| Well, thats true. Unless Mask somehow manages to kill another deity, gain more power, then kill Cyric, which would result in a massive power flux. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 18:48:46
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| Cherrn, can't Torm access his plane? I remember how Gwydion the Quick said his true name and that allowed Torm the True to go find Cyric. So if one of his followers accidentally mention one of the god's name, they can access his/her plane. Also, Kezef wouldn't have too much of a problem going to Cyric's plane. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 23:15:04
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that was the realm of death there are other rules at that plane and Cyric has madnes as a portfolio to by the way...
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 14:24:26
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'Fraid not Cyric. You see many thought madness was part of his portfolio since he was stark raving mad. However he is no long mad (unfortunate) and he does not hold the madness domain. Since it seems that madness can even strike at the gods, I would think the owner of that portfolio would be very powerful indeed... Perhaps Lord has that domain... Or perhaps... The RIGHTFUL heir to the Magic domain has it. The GREATEST MAGE EVER KARSUS, the SUPREME!  |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 23:57:34
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| Cardinal is right. Cyric doesn't have the portfolio of madness and I don't think anyone actually possess it right now. If there is a deity that will take that, then the Realms will be in danger because of such an unpredictable deity. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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RaVeN1463
Seeker
USA
96 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 00:34:02
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| Madness is one of those portfolios that could be powerful. But who would want to be the master of Madness and Insanity? |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 01:52:15
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Doubtful that the realms would be in any real danger, as we saw with Cyric, the realms would just be a bit more interesting. The Threat of madness is that while great power and ultimate preception (as times, such as clarity of mind in true madness) the greater threat is to self. One would just as easily, in a fit of some sort, lay was to their own followers for no other reason than paranoid delusion. Plus I would think that in madness many of the gods would feel uncomfortable as then they all are, to one degree or another, mad. Obsessive compulsive, Megalomania, Schizophrenia (of any type), etc. But still madness is up for grabs as far as we know (we've had this question answered buy 'THE Sage' some time ago, we at least agree that Madness is not in anyone's domain, though we are split, on whether madness has a portfolio or not). Were Cyric truely the god of Madness, not just of insane madmen but true madness, we would be the first in line to grovel at his feet... as it stands though Cyric is simply wanting as a god...
Edit notes: Ok, after doing some snooping I've stumbled across an inconsistentcy.. Namely in Leria, the Goddess of Deception. Now we are confrimed that Cyric has slain, Bane, and Bhaal. Of that we are sure. However it is not stated that he had slain THREE deities, only Bhaal and Bane (or at the very least two nameless gods, whose portfolio's he's assumed). We do know that Leria is still MIA (and a body not identified yet) Even if Leria is a confrimed dead, the question then becomes, if Cyric didn't kill Leria, then who did? The time of troubles seems to have left a great many questions... Still... The greatest deception and illusion is to fake your own death... |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
Edited by - The Cardinal on 06 Feb 2004 03:36:39 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 04:24:44
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| Cardinal, what are you talking about? Cyric didn't kill Bane. Bane was killed by Torm in Tantras. Cyric killed only two gods, Leira and Bhaal. It is confirmed that Leira is dead even though her body did not show up. It was in Prince of Lies and Cyric himself even admitted he did the deed to Lord Ao. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 05:01:46
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| Whoops! Heh heh heh. So he did kill Leria? We musta missed that part... Gonna have to dig the books out and re-read it |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
Edited by - The Cardinal on 06 Feb 2004 05:19:23 |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 13:32:30
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| Malik in the trail of Cyric the mad says Cyric had claimed the dominon of madness in my long absenss. so he has madness |
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Arteris
Learned Scribe
121 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2004 : 05:46:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyric
yes but mystra did get a whole lot power from the former Mystra and Chauntea is ancient and i do belive Silvanus to have 19.
And Cyric claimed his power and this place is just swarming with the followers of a lesser god all of his followers must be her .
Whats even funnier, is that all the stupid intrigue lies and deciet could all be washed away by Lord Ao. I really do hope he smites Cyric so I have somthing to laugh about |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2004 : 23:21:31
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| Huh? No reprisals? |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2004 : 01:26:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Arteris
quote:
Originally posted by Cyric
yes but mystra did get a whole lot power from the former Mystra and Chauntea is ancient and i do belive Silvanus to have 19.
And Cyric claimed his power and this place is just swarming with the followers of a lesser god all of his followers must be her .
Whats even funnier, is that all the stupid intrigue lies and deciet could all be washed away by Lord Ao. I really do hope he smites Cyric so I have somthing to laugh about
I don't think that would happen. Cyric does follow his godly duties after all. The intrige, lies, deciet is what he is supposed to do. To plot against all the other gods is works for keeping the balance. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Arteris
Learned Scribe
121 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2004 : 17:47:23
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| I didnt say it wasnt his duty, I merely pointed out that hes not as high and mighty as he thinks he is. Ao could ahnialate him with the snap of a finger |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2004 : 18:41:41
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| Arteris, Ao could annihilate every god easily. He doesn't do that to disrupt the Balance. If Cyric was gone, then the advantage would go to the force of good... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2004 : 10:07:24
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| Yes. What a horrid prospect, indeed. |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2004 : 10:16:20
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Arteris, Ao could annihilate every god easily. He doesn't do that to disrupt the Balance. If Cyric was gone, then the advantage would go to the force of good...
That is highly unlikely. Ao seeks to maintain the balance of the celestial hierarchy. If Cyric were to fall, then another source of power to maintain his portfolio must be found. The overall balance would not shift to good, as that would upset the way of the balance. Look to the Time of Troubles, Ao promoted mortals to replace those deities that had fallen, failing to do so would have given opposing forces too much room-to-create-deity-mischief...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2004 : 16:30:23
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There is one thing that We think we all seem to be overlooking... Does Ao actually exist?... Well ok not that but Does Ao actually care? The Time of Troubles was more over the Tablets of Fate being stolen than anything else, really. Perhaps more over Ao's own pride of having underlings even dare to take something that he put down for all (a reference manual as it were).
Cyric (who may or may not have been a threat to the balance, and Kelemvor and Mystra subsequently) and his trial had nothing to do with Ao at all. Infact, it was moreover (as much as We hate to say it... atleast for this first god) fear over Cyric, Kelemvor, and Mystra, and what they might have been doing. The old gods are more static, more set in their ways, than these three new ones. Granted that Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul did not get such a trial, however, they lived up to the stigma of their office by being evil. They were mortals who became gods, not mortals who became gods and then tried to hold on to their humanity (if that isn't a play on words then We don't know what is).
Ao did not bring to bear the charges against Cyric, nor did he actually oversee any of the trial itself. True Tyr acted as judge in Ao's stead but that doesn't actually count as Ao. We theorize that Ao's own power base is based more upon the fact that the Realm's exist. As long as Faerun continues to exist, evolve, and thrive, Ao's power remains. As far as we know Ao could be just another Cyric, plotting against his fellow ovegods, somewhat ignoring his own realm of sorts (Ex: let the underlings sort it all out... but woe to them should I have to get involved.. Everybody gets out of the pool then).
We feels there is more to say... We just can't say it since it hasn't come to us yet... Well.. there it is then... |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
Edited by - The Cardinal on 09 Feb 2004 16:32:49 |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2004 : 19:04:10
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i doubt that he is any thing but true nutral...
And lives to maintain the balance |
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jebeddo
Seeker
Canada
69 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2004 : 22:36:48
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Greetings and well met, do any in attendance know where Lady Mystra lives? My references say that she resides in the plane of Dweomerheart while the Avatar Series say that she lives in the plane of Niverna (or something like that). Please reply! |
"Only half-orcs rush in where devas fear to tread." |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2004 : 23:07:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Arteris
I didnt say it wasnt his duty, I merely pointed out that hes not as high and mighty as he thinks he is. Ao could ahnialate him with the snap of a finger
Seriously, isn't that like stating the obvious ? I mean, that's the same as saying that a human could kill an ant with a snap of a finger ? |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2004 : 23:33:23
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Reading all of these posts, I'm reminded of what Ed of the Greenwood ALWAYS told us when we (I'm one of his original players) asked about the gods. He'd spread his hands and ask, "Roleplay?"
So we'd sigh, go and find a temple or powerful priest, ask what we wanted to know, and get an answer.
Then we'd ask Ed if the answer was true, and he'd smile and reply, "How can you ever know? Even if a god PERSONALLY answered you, how can you trust them not to have an agenda, and be manipulating you by the answer they give? Remember that: how can you ever know?"
:)
Florin Falconhand had an 'in' with Mielikki, and once asked her this. She (Ed as DM playing her, of course) smiled and said, "Of course I'm not giving you truth, Florin...and even *I* can never be sure what is truth, and what is merely my perception. Think not on such things, most loyal of mortals, for that way lies madness."
Still good advice, I think. |
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Arteris
Learned Scribe
121 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2004 : 00:01:59
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I didnt want to quote all of Cardinal Diemos's speech so I thought I'd just copy the one part that caught my attention "As far as we know Ao could be just another Cyric, plotting against his fellow ovegods" I thought the "chain of command" if you will of the gods went.
Ao
Gods with Divine rank 20 or higher
Gods with Divine rank 16 - 19
and so forth.. Isnt Ao above all gods or is he just one of the Uber gods that have a divine rank higher than 20? |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2004 : 01:12:56
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| Arteris, Ao has like a ranking of 21. He is what we called a Overlord and he is very powerful. An Overlord doesn't need worshipers and doesn't grant spells either. He is there to maintain the Balance and also give permission to create new deities. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2004 : 03:16:49
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We agree with you DDH_101. Ao would be like a uber divine rank. We, however do not believe he is the be all in deity creation. He has veto power true. But in all my readings, when Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul earned the portfolios handed to them By Jergal ( Now the 'Scribe of the Underword', but then Known as the 'Lord of the End of Everything), Ao was silent. Anyone else know anything about that? We are always curious about such things...
And Thank you to Arteris for not quoting the entire rantings of a madman. We think that the enitre of Candlekeep can barely handle Our rantings as they are anyways |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2004 : 07:41:10
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For my campaigns, Ao is left undefined and unranked...He is the unknown quantity among the celestial hierarchy. I prefer it that way as that is the way I believe Ao should be interpreted, much like the Dark Powers of the Ravenloft setting or the Lady of Pain from Planescape - everyones knows he exists, but no-one knows who or what Ao is exactly. That is always left open, a handy tool for the DM should such a plot device be necessary.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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gods
