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Icewolf
Learned Scribe
USA
214 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Jan 2004 : 01:34:09
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Is this even possible? If so, then how would the spells work? Would he get his normal spells for sorceror, and then a seperate spell list for his wizard levels?
It seems kind of redundant to me, but I was sitting here, browsing through the scrolls here at Candlekeep, and the thought just pops into my head, and doesn't fade away, so I thought I'd put it out here for everyone.
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2004 : 08:39:44
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It's possible. It works like any other spellcaster/spellcaster combination -- two different spell lists, two different caster levels, etc. The only thing that stacks is where it involves the familiar. A Sorcerer 4/Wizard 4 would have a familiar that is treated as level 8.
It's also a sneaky way to get around the specialist wizard's limitation on using scrolls and wands of an opposing school.  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2004 : 13:01:25
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The Bookwyrm pretty much covered your answers...
I'll just add that it pays to notice whether the campaign setting you are playing in actually allows this combination. For example, the DL setting has very tight restrictions on such a multiclass, due to the unique origins of Sorcery magic on Krynn. In some Ages, it is nearly impossible to access.
Also, some DM's are a little weary of Wizard/Sorcerer PC's. Although, from those I have talked to (on other community forums), none can provide what I would call, very concrete reasonings against such a pairing...excluding the setting restrictions I mentioned above, of course...
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Elrond Half Elven
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
322 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2004 : 17:17:46
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Perhaps you could only allow this class if the character started off as a sorceror, then the character could have been born, as a person who could use magic but along his/her way he/she could have learned how to control magic through training.
This could be an interesting combination in say Thay, where persons with magical abilities are sough out and taught. Of course there is nothing to prevent the player from still rising in sorceror levels. As the Character ages his 'natural' abilities to manipulate magic grow aswell, he feels that he need to learn how to control them so takes another level of wizard. Actually this could be quite an interesting character to play.
Hanx
Elrond |
Once upon a midnight dreary, while i pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore-
While i nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
-The Raven by Edgar Allan Poe |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 06:47:19
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Actually, in Thay sorcerers are considered dangerous, and are, ah, "discouraged" . . . as only Thayvians can discouraged people. 
As for DM objections, it's really up to them. If they want to keep the two separate, it's their game. All I really know is that there are no rules in the standard D&D or the FR setting against it. And that Artalis (you remember him, right? nobody's forgotten him? ) is playing a Sor1/Wiz1 character in Mumadar's game.
In an ironic twist of the story, my character is Artalis's character's mentor in wizardry. I say ironic because he was the guy who got me on my feet in regards to roleplaying -- so it's the opposite of our real-life interaction. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 08:41:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
As for DM objections, it's really up to them. If they want to keep the two separate, it's their game.
As I said previously, that may be true for most settings, but in DL (and, to a lesser extent in the Planescape and Ravenloft settings), it would be impossible to regulate wizard/sorcerer combinations in that way. The magic of Sorcery has only really come into play during the 5th Age. PC's wishing to use the class combination in earlier eras would find it very difficult because no mortal race had access to it...in essence, sorcery did not exist.
So in some cases - to preserve setting continuity - the history of the campaign setting itself, can be used to justify a final ruling on this, regardless of how the DM may or may not feel about allowing this multiclass into his campaign.
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 07:49:22
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| Well, I was speaking in terms of the Forgotten Realms, and to a lesser extend the normal D&D setting. Unlike you, they're the only ones I know about. |
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Belfar
Seeker
USA
86 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 04:17:16
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| Its not impossible I suppose if you go with the sorcerer first and then add the wizard class afterwards. I've always wondered how you could multiclass into sorcerer after taking levels in another class. Take a 20 year old human fighter all of a sudden getting natural born magic power. The only way I can think that a wizard could take a sorcerer level is if that he was seperated from magical lore and research so long that he was able to tap into his other magic ablities to become a sorcerer. I hope you can decipher what I was trying to say because I found it hard to type out that idea. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 23:12:06
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It's pretty clear.
As for multiclassing into (rather than out of) sorcerer levels, I've decided it's like a character meditating on the Weave or somesuch, developing a connection to it. Some people are born with it as a wild talent, while others have to excersise their own abilities (such as through getting a Charisma increase every four levels instead of starting out with 18). |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 02:08:36
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That's certainly an interesting interpretation Bookwyrm...Mind if I borrow it...?
How would you represent the 'meditation' time of the PC though?. Is it role-played, or just something that is assumed to have taken place while the PC is resting...?
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thefeem
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2004 : 06:19:44
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The is also the idea that a sorcerer adventures for a while gets some money and then decides to take a year off to go to wizard school. The combination can be helpful when crafting wondrous items or rings. There are a few items that have caster level lower than what is required to have the feat. For instance, a ring of jumping requires the caster to be first level and the spell jump. A sorcerer could be twelth level, get the craft ring feat, go to school, (or any other way a DM requires), somehow learn the jump spell and craft the ring. This is an instance where an experienced sorcerer would like to take a few levels in wizard.
Also The Simbul is mainly a sorcerer, but she has at least ten levels in wizard. Her Archmage levels could be in wizard spellcasting, but she needed her sorcerer levels to meet the requirements for the class. One the other hand Alustriel has twenty levels as a wizard but only two as a sorcerer.
I am writing about such a character in a campaign that I will put online later. I hope this gives some ideas on how to incorporate such a PC in a campaign. I think it is important to have a story behind the character. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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thefeem
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 05:41:53
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| This is something that I thought about myself. It's for a character in my writing. He has some item creation feats but limited spells. He wants to add lower level spells and becoming a wizard is the only wat to do this. He also wants to learn more about arcana. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 07:03:45
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That's certainly an interesting interpretation Bookwyrm...Mind if I borrow it...?
How would you represent the 'meditation' time of the PC though?. Is it role-played, or just something that is assumed to have taken place while the PC is resting...?
I certainly don't mind. I really just thought it up because of how the class is supposed to be rare, but there's still no game limit at all on who takes it. Obviously, it couldn't be limited in roleplay to those with dragon ancestory.
As for meditation, it wouldn't be very involved. Just quiet sort of meditation with no preparation. It could be done at any time where the character would be free of prior mental commitment. That makes things very loose -- there are a lot of physical tasks that could free up the mind for other things. (For instance, while playing Neverwinter Nights, I'm also listening to The History of Science: 1700-1900, a 36-lecture series.)
Another way that sorcerer levels could be taken in-character is if another sorcerer 'awakens' the talent. I think that's what happened with another character in Mumadar's PbeM, but I didn't ask. (I suppose I ought to.) I'm reminded of something from one of Raymond E. Feist's books (I forget which; they're my brother's, and he's in the next county over), where someone slaps the hands of the other characters to awaken a sort of healing magic. (Of course, that same character also shows how there is no such thing as magic at the end of that book; not even a D&D sorcerer could claim that. ) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 07:11:30
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'The History of Science: 1700-1900'...I'd been meaning to pick up a copy myself some time ago, although I wasn't too sure about how factual and well-referenced it would be.
Care to provide some information...?
Thanks for the okay...I haven't had a chance to use this method yet, mostly because the campaign I wanted to try it in has been put on indefinite hold.
I do remember that Feist reference though, it was one of his middle-period works was it not...? (Hence, not during the Riftwar Saga)
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 09:48:02
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Yes, it was. I never read much of that series, mostly because my mother had "ideas" about my brother's fiction as I was growing up, and so that was the only non-Riftwar part I ever read. My mother has since mellowed out (to the point that not only I can actually discuss D&D with her, she's actively encouraging my and my brother's writings), but I never fixed that lack. I'm a bit behind in my literary pursuits.
As for the lecture series, I'll direct you to a new scroll. The reasons for why I'm actually posting about it on Candlekeep will be made clear.
I'll also say that in the time it took for me to post that and come over here, Alaundo had already snatched it off the shelf and read it. I think he must have a permanent divination in place for terms like "Non-Realmsian." Fortunately, it seems he approves of the scroll. Or at least, didn't lock the topic. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Artalis
Senior Scribe
USA
444 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2004 : 20:23:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Actually, in Thay sorcerers are considered dangerous, and are, ah, "discouraged" . . . as only Thayvians can discouraged people.
As for DM objections, it's really up to them. If they want to keep the two separate, it's their game. All I really know is that there are no rules in the standard D&D or the FR setting against it. And that Artalis (you remember him, right? nobody's forgotten him? ) is playing a Sor1/Wiz1 character in Mumadar's game.
In an ironic twist of the story, my character is Artalis's character's mentor in wizardry. I say ironic because he was the guy who got me on my feet in regards to roleplaying -- so it's the opposite of our real-life interaction.
He's not 1/1 anymore... 
The idea behind the character concept was a mage who pursued magic on every level and sought understanding of the weave by all means possible. His "Natural" class is Sorcerer and he is a gifted Wizard as well. He's a very devout follower of Mystra and will eventually end up a Dweomerkeeper(PrC) should he survive long enough.
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Artalis
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 07:46:30
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| Since the group has split up, I haven't been reading the forest group's posts. I assume Tarim's added another level of Sorcerer? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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Artalis
Senior Scribe
USA
444 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2004 : 18:54:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Since the group has split up, I haven't been reading the forest group's posts. I assume Tarim's added another level of Sorcerer?
Assume away!
I'll admit that the multiclass combination of wizard/sorcerer does allow certain advantages in terms of spell capacity that no other 2nd lvl character could manage. But it's not a game breaker IMO I mean if a fighter had a limit to the number of times he could swing a sword then maybe it would be overpowering but a mage is still the weakest class in the lower levels.
All the combination does honestly is allow the mage to be a contributor to the party's efforts for a more reasonable length of time.
From a balance standpoint the fact that the multiclass combo utilizes 2 different prime stats is key to remember. By way of comparison the Sorcerer/Bard combination is much more "stacked" again IMO. |
Artalis
Email
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Edited by - Artalis on 21 Mar 2004 18:56:08 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2004 : 20:41:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Another way that sorcerer levels could be taken in-character is if another sorcerer 'awakens' the talent. I think that's what happened with another character in Mumadar's PbeM, but I didn't ask. (I suppose I ought to.) I'm reminded of something from one of Raymond E. Feist's books (I forget which; they're my brother's, and he's in the next county over), where someone slaps the hands of the other characters to awaken a sort of healing magic. (Of course, that same character also shows how there is no such thing as magic at the end of that book; not even a D&D sorcerer could claim that. )
Ah, another fan of Feist's stuff!  The reference is on page 241 of Shadow of a Dark Queen.
I have an NPC that started as a fighter but later became a sorcerer. The story is that he discovered when he was young that he had some talent for sorcery, but when his parents were killed, he wound up taking up the sword as a way to survive. Years later, after gaining several levels as a fighter, he decided to take the money he'd earned by adventuring and use that to fund studying magic. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 03:15:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Ah, another fan of Feist's stuff! The reference is on page 241 of Shadow of a Dark Queen.
Ah, Nakor. He's a very colorful magic-user. Want an orange? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 03:28:22
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Ah, another fan of Feist's stuff! The reference is on page 241 of Shadow of a Dark Queen.
Ah, Nakor. He's a very colorful magic-user. Want an orange?
He does not use magic, he just does tricks.  |
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Wizard/Sorceror Multiclass?
